Death consequences needs to be toughen / More PVP tools

[Koltes]

Sorry if this has already been brought up before. Im very new here and only registered to report few bugs that I have discovered over the last 6 months playing on online PVP servers.

 

I'm a pvp player. If there is no PVP then I wont play the game. 7DTD seems to have perfect a setting for PVP however imho needs some adjustments.

 

Once base is found some players treat their own death with little respect. They throw themselves onto base defenses like jumping on the roof, into the pit, wearing off turret's ammo etc knowing that there will hardly be any consequences if they die alot. Some people on my server have 700+ deaths. Also you could use an alt account to die for you.

I believe we need some tougher death consequences.

 

1. One of the main one is that there should be a timer placing your bedroll maybe like 30 min. Once you dead and respawn your bedroll is gone. You can place another one at the location where you respawned, but only once every 15 minutes. This way people will die couple of times and it will teleport them away from the area preventing griefing the base using no death penalty exploit. Else they have to wait 30 minutes before placing another bag essentially removing the ability to use no death penalty to wear off turrets.

 

 

We also need better tools to actually find player locations.

 

2. One of the tools is the airdrop coordinates transmitted to open chat to everyone. Because airdrops only delivered to player's location it will give rough location of one of the players on the server. This is not OP and works great on modded servers.

3. There should also be other tools to bring people together. Maybe daily quests at random times with radio transmitted coordinates. Loot should be good but only one time. Like solar cell for example. This would give people incentives to go and risk their lives.

4. Also would be good to maybe have GPS trackers. If the bike, car is stolen then it should have better tracking tools.

5. Drones is another great option. If we can build motion sensors we could surely build drones too. Drones could be programmed to "guard" or explore specific area and comeback when needs to be refueled essentially helping to open the map. This one easy to implement. It could be as simple as a map tool that covers small area of the map and works like a motion sensor giving the drone owner a location of spotted player.

6. Another tool is a zombie hunting dog. We already know that we gonna be able to have dogs as pets. The dog could also help fighting zombies as well as tracking them (!). Zombies only respawn on player location so sending your dog to a specific area of the map to investigate would reveal how active this area with zombies basically letting you know that players also live in that area.

 

7. Also for construction purpose we need to be able to move wedge block forward within the block area (not just rotate it) or have another wedge block that is sits in the second half of the block allowing to build reclined wall that players cant stand on like they could do on the ramp corner.

 

Thanks for your attention

Cheers

Koltes

[Katitof]

Don't count on anything enhancing pvp.

 

You've got plenty of "zombie survival" pvp games out there, 7d focus is on PvE and coop and that is being enhanced and encouraged.

 

You may have pvp servers, but the game was never meant nor balanced to be pvp and never will be.

[Koltes]

Don't count on anything enhancing pvp.

 

You've got plenty of "zombie survival" pvp games out there, 7d focus is on PvE and coop and that is being enhanced and encouraged.

 

You may have pvp servers, but the game was never meant nor balanced to be pvp and never will be.

 

This maybe so, but the game already has PVP aspect and therefore attracts PVP customer.

PVE survival becomes very easy once you leveled and established. For that you still have your single player or coop PVE servers. Why not attract broader customer base that would also greatly support the game which means you will get more and better updates enhancing your PVE experience as well?

 

All it has to do is to implement some easy tools for it. Its just my opinion after playing the game for 6 months on various servers (PVE and PVP). You might disagree and its fine, but im sure that lots of players would agree to see some loving for PVP side of the game. After all if PVE is the only thing you want to have then you can have PVE only setup server. Easy

[Scyris]

Protip: 7dtd is not a pvp game, there are other gankfests for that. 7dtd is designed to be co-op/pve like Katitof has said. I think dropping all your items is pretty severe as it is. As the collection of said items takes longer compared to simmlar more pvp based games.

 

The devs MIGHT focus more on pvp but only after they get the pve side solid first as thats the games main focus. With how the dev of the game is going I don't expect to see much done in the way of pvp for years. As in A17 the devs are yet again, changing how the game is played from the core. Which I think is why its been in alpha for so long. They need to pick something and stick with it already, hopefully A17 is what they will finally stick with so they can start working on content and such.

[skullpoker]

Protip: 7dtd is not a pvp game, there are other gankfests for that. 7dtd is designed to be co-op/pve like Katitof has said. I think dropping all your items is pretty severe as it is. As the collection of said items takes longer compared to simmlar more pvp based games.

 

The devs MIGHT focus more on pvp but only after they get the pve side solid first as thats the games main focus. With how the dev of the game is going I don't expect to see much done in the way of pvp for years. As in A17 the devs are yet again, changing how the game is played from the core. Which I think is why its been in alpha for so long. They need to pick something and stick with it already, hopefully A17 is what they will finally stick with so they can start working on content and such.

 

If A17 eliminates md5 errors, falling through the map, minibike loss, etc. it should be worth the time they took.

[Scyris]

If A17 eliminates md5 errors, falling through the map, minibike loss, etc. it should be worth the time they took.

 

I agree. I do notice a way to stop minibike loss is to take just the tires off, if you notice when you park it in certan places in A16.4 the bike will.. shake a bit which I think means "warning I am onot on stable ground", however, the second you take the tires off, it seems to change from a vechicle to a "block" as it stops shaking entirely and its still as a statue. I take the tires off and store em in the minibikes storage when I walk away from it or leave the game. Haven't had a bike poof on me since.

[Kage848]

Protip: 7dtd is not a pvp game, there are other gankfests for that. 7dtd is designed to be co-op/pve like Katitof has said. I think dropping all your items is pretty severe as it is. As the collection of said items takes longer compared to simmlar more pvp based games.

 

The devs MIGHT focus more on pvp but only after they get the pve side solid first as thats the games main focus. With how the dev of the game is going I don't expect to see much done in the way of pvp for years. As in A17 the devs are yet again, changing how the game is played from the core. Which I think is why its been in alpha for so long. They need to pick something and stick with it already, hopefully A17 is what they will finally stick with so they can start working on content and such.

 

It depends. I have seen others pvp/pve games hurt the pve experience because something was changed for pvp.

 

Also with only so much man power to go around dumping resources into pvp could slow down development.

 

I'm not against good pvp in 7dtd. I just want to know what we would give up to get it.

[SylenThunder]

For #7, we already have two wedge pieces that can do this.

[bigstep70]

I'm not against good pvp in 7dtd. I just want to know what we would give up to get it.

 

A very good point indeed...

[Roland]

Aside from PvP the death penalty should be beefed up more than it is for any playstyle. As long as there are people who are willing to die to gain an advantage it is an indication that the penalty is still too light.

 

Good news is that with the switch to attributes the devs (or modders) will be able to easily make dying too onerous to just let it happen to get rid of unwanted buffs or to throw yourself against base defenses over and over and over again.

 

Btw...I like the idea of bedrolls being consumed by respawning.

[skullpoker]

PRTOIP: If another players play-style offends your delicate sensibilities play on a different server or solo.

 

Death penalties are fine.

[Mortelentus]

More then fine. If survival isn't our main concern... Why play a survival game?

[Cernwn]

It has been previously stated by TFP (wish I had the post or video) that while PvP is an option, it is not their focus. While this might change, I would not count on it.

 

Right now, anyone dying repeatedly like you describe would not only drop their gear (according to server setting), but also trash their Wellness (Health/Stamina cap). Wellness is being removed in A17, so this may be more of a concern then. In the meantime, run your own dedicated server with this permadeath mod (requires adding steamIDs to a list when they first login):

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?76963-MOD-Simple-PermaDeath-ApiMod-(Dedicated-Server)

 

#1: I like the idea of bedrolls (but not beds) being destroyed upon respawn. Sorta like another survival game I know...

 

#2: Currently airdrops are shown on only the maps of players in close proximity, but not the entire server. If TFP really wanted to encourage airdrop activity, they would auto-flag anyone near an airdrop as "contested mode" where they can attack or be attacked by anyone, regardless of server PvP mode. Also have a large group of bandits or zombies surrounding some airdrops, and/or approach as players open it.

 

#7: AFAIK the blocks you are describing are already in the game as "wedge tip", and the current rotation system should allow for this type of placement (hold down R with it in hand, mouse over Advanced).

[Koltes]

Guys you are missing the point. If you are a PVE player and paying on PVE server or Single player than my proposal means no difference to your gameplay whatsoever.

However there ARE PVP servers. Yes its a PVE game, but since it has PVP option and PVP players play on PVP servers there are some concerns. 1/3 of the entire server count are either PVP dedicated or mix of PVE/PVP.

Guys - one third. This number is too large to ignore. Please dont get me wrong I dont want to offend anybody. Im new here, just expressing my concerns that I believe should be looked into. Not asking to change gameplay either. Frankly my suggestion helps to preserve the current gameplay.

 

1). We all (PVE and PVP players) play survival. However, PVE is easy enough. Especially when you get to level 200 and have a base that cant be penetrated by the zombies, so the game simply becomes too easy. Because there will become a time when there is no longer real survival aspect, naturally people turn onto each other for some challenge.

 

2). all I offered to balance PVP aspect is to make bedrolls consumable on death and placing another has a timer. This in no way will affect your PVE game experience and literally takes few minutes to code, so not much attention to PVP side either.

So even if devs wont do anything to bring people together whether for coop or pvp gamplay, this one above is a must fix for the exploit they currently have in the current PVP gameplay that already exist in the game.

 

 

Right now, anyone dying repeatedly like you describe would not only drop their gear (according to server setting), but also trash their Wellness (Health/Stamina cap). Wellness is being removed in A17, so this may be more of a concern then. In the meantime, run your own dedicated server with this permadeath mod (requires adding steamIDs to a list when they first login)

I don't know how much you have played competitively on PVP servers, but I can definitely confirm that what you have described above unfortunately does not work as intended.

Base raiders using this exploit simply stop on a bike near the base, drop their bedroll and leave all their valuables on the bike.

When they die they appear near the bike, run to the base, make the guns working and kill them and respawn next to theri bike and repeat the process until turrets are out of ammo. Your total health cannot drop below 75 or 70 HP. Trust me there are people who dont care about their total HP as they dont fight. They are more than willing to sacrifice their total HP to get your loot.

On top of that people use alt accounts to take all the health damage saving their primary character unaffected.

 

So instead of changing the penalties and trying to fiddle with mechanics I suggested that bedroll would be consumed on death and timer added to place another one (15 minutes will be sufficient). So raiders who use this exploit to make guns run out of ammo will have to spend a lot more time doing so. No other penalties. Just an easy game mechanic that prevents them to exploit this way.

 

Perma death is too severe penalty. More often people die from lag or server crash rather than their own fault.

 

 

#7: AFAIK the blocks you are describing are already in the game as "wedge tip", and the current rotation system should allow for this type of placement (hold down R with it in hand, mouse over Advanced).

For #7, we already have two wedge pieces that can do this.

You cant rotate Wedge tip to take second half of the block. You can only... well rotate it within its own half. Thats why we either need it to be rotated as you described or need another item that takes second half of the block.

 

 

Aside from PvP the death penalty should be beefed up more than it is for any playstyle. As long as there are people who are willing to die to gain an advantage it is an indication that the penalty is still too light.

 

Good news is that with the switch to attributes the devs (or modders) will be able to easily make dying too onerous to just let it happen to get rid of unwanted buffs or to throw yourself against base defenses over and over and over again.

 

Btw...I like the idea of bedrolls being consumed by respawning.

Yeah I also think that death penalty is too light. Not sure if its too light for PVE aspect, but it is too light for PVP. I dont know how penalizing more severely will help though as exploiters likes to use alt accounts to take all the penalties so more penalties wont really stop them, but hurt legit players. I think that the bedroll timer would stop them from diying to get an advantage because this means they will have to either wait 15 minutes between each deaths or have to run from random respawn point. This alone would turn them off.

 

 

PRTOIP: If another players play-style offends your delicate sensibilities play on a different server or solo.

Death penalties are fine.

This has nothing to do with a play style. Surely this game was not intended to give player an advantage by getting access to someone's base by dropping their bed near the raiding base and throwing themselves onto the turrets wearing them off. Players that count 800+ deaths is not a gameplay style, it is an exploit that affects game mechanic that should supposedly provide what they intend to provide - turrets for example should provide a security within its arch of fire. 1500 rounds that it holds should kill all players on the server many times over. Thats the intention of the game whatever your or my playstyle is

 

 

More then fine. If survival isn't our main concern... Why play a survival game?

We all play survival game. At lease at the moment when we start over. I have rerolled and started over many times just to experience this survival feel again. However it is unavoidable that sooner or later you will become high enough level to treat zombies like... hmmm wild life. Its there. You just have to be sensible and you can live forever. Horde nights are easy even at the early stages. However, playing survival game with PVP aspect becomes a whole lot new survival challenge. Especially when someone raided your base and you lost all your gear. Thats is very awesome when that happens so I dont have to reroll or pretend I have lost everything. It just happened and I have to start over. So yeah, we all playing survival. just different types I guess.

 

 

Apology for the long text. Just wanted to address all replies. Cheers and Happy New Year everyone!

[skullpoker]

So it sounds like what your saying is they should remove the ability to damage other players entirely so PvPers can play some other game.

 

Sounds good.

[ZombiDweller]

Just simple,

Death takes your levels away, and eats points from random skill. So you just unlocked something you want, dont die.

Of course this can be little bit cheated, by holding skill points in reserve. But it still hurts a lot.

[Good Idea]

then you lose all your levels after grinding for 30 hours since some guy found a sniper rifle and installed a aimbot

[ZombiDweller]

then you lose all your levels after grinding for 30 hours since some guy found a sniper rifle and installed a aimbot

 

yup, that is the risk in PvP. And those who play it, are prepared to take it. (This can also happen without the cheats mentioned). But 90% of the players play PvE, so this kind of things doesn't happen.

[Torroc]

Not a fan of the pvp aspect my self But i will say i do like the idea of the incline you are trying to point out in number 7, It would be intresting to see something similar to that for bases to be built with to allow players to fire down on zombis from their walls alittle easier while preventing the zombies from climbing up the walls. Forgive me tho if this is already in the came someplace and im just missing it tho..

[Koltes]

yup, that is the risk in PvP. And those who play it, are prepared to take it. (This can also happen without the cheats mentioned). But 90% of the players play PvE, so this kind of things doesn't happen.

 

Sorry man, this is simply not true. According to the number of servers that accept pvp is about 50/50. Also not to forget those servers accept larger number of people, so thats quite a number of PVP players to ignore.

Also as I have mentioned before Wellness penalty is not good enough because some players are only raiding bases and not actually PVPing (as fighting other players). When you are high level you can survive on 75 Health no sweat. The wellness only needed in the actual PVP which they avoid. So the point is people put their bedrolls down, run into player's bases and keep dying time after time wearing turrets ammo off. Losing Health as mentioned has no deterrent. However they still get access to your base and game as it seem provides no repercussion to stop or prevent

[ZombiDweller]

Offtopic:

 

Sorry man, this is simply not true. According to the number of servers that accept pvp is about 50/50. Also not to forget those servers accept larger number of people, so thats quite a number of PVP players to ignore.

 

And all those people who play the game in solo / co-op private servers/hosts which are not listed. Just checking the server available doesn't really give picture how people play.

 

My assumption was based on the poll weeks ago how people play the game. Not any server listing. But when we dont have excat statistic we cannot have definite info. But i still would say majority is heavily on PvE side solo/co-op.

[Nightspawn]

I think people need to learn some basic maturity before being allowed to post on here, so many comments are childish fools being offended by the idea of pvp being enhanced, yeah it's not made for pvp but that doesn't mean that 7 days to die doesn't still pull it off better than other games, nor does it mean pvp should get 0 attention. Personally I think the death penalty should be harsher, because at first you're all scared to die, but once it happens you realize how pointless it was to be so worried. Adding more onto the pvp points of this, stop telling people to just "go play another game" clearly these people prefer 7 days to die, so instead of slowly killing 7 days to dies player base, how about you all be helpful. If you disagree you don't need to jump down his throat, just say "pimps can work on pvp once the game is out of alpha, for now they need to complete the pve aspect" instead of telling people to go elsewhere. We all need to learn to help eachother and stop being so easily offended, it would be really sad if this game dies because people got mad at things that really didn't have any effect on them whatsoever and thus, scared players off with their salt.

 

I don't know about all of you, but I play games to have a break from work and all the negativity everyone faces in day to day life, I don't see why we cant all just be nicer to eachother, it isn't hard.

[AkSlayer907]

Hey Kage,

 

Been watching you for a while, just watched the last of the alpha 15 series and you said can’t me here and say hi👋. Thanks for the great videos! I watch everyday!