Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[crazywildfire]

Ahh black and white. There is no gray

 

Not everything has to have gray in it.

 

It is true turn off if you want no threat. If on no place should be 100% safe. Some might not see it this way. That is fine everyone can have a opinion but it doesn't change the fact for this game if zombies are on you don't/shouldn't have a 100% safe spot.

[Prisma501]

Not everything has to have gray in it.

 

It is true turn off if you want no threat. If on no place should be 100% safe. Some might not see it this way. That is fine everyone can have a opinion but it doesn't change the fact for this game if zombies are on you don't/shouldn't have a 100% safe spot.

 

Yeah imo too. And statistically the majority of the poll takers too.

 

Cheers

[Professor-Pip]

Why not just better Zombie AI

 

In all this talk about the underground, it occurs to me that if Zombie AI is improved there would be little need for diggers, rats, spiders, silverfish or mutant rock people.

 

If zombies simply attack hatches and then climb down ladders, you end up with zeds roaming about your underground base.

 

Now personally, I don't have a problem with upping the ante for living underground but throwing in various dangers like gas pockets, necessary air shafts, even cave-ins (which I've never experienced except while digging in dirt for treasure). I don't even mind Kin's idea of having digger zombies that spawn outside your walls and dig a couple of blocks to get to your base.

 

But frankly, If zombies can follow the path a player takes to get into his base then Other solutions aren't really necessary.

 

Pip

[Jedo]

Lets get down to the real problem...No place should be 100 percent safe with zombies on. Underground threats are a must.

 

Why not? In a real zombie apocalypse, where would you go? Some place 100 percent safe from zombies. Where would that be? My friends and I decided that this would be a cruise ship anchored off the coast. Lots of room and lots of food. What's the problem with that scenario? The food eventually would run out, meaning that we would have to leave our safe place to forage, thus risking encounters with zombies.

 

I agree with the emphasis that some have placed on environmental dangers to underground living, or even on coaxing players to leave their safe haven for something worth while. Make the people need to go where zombies are rather than making zombies come to them. (Except I don't mind what people not-so-affectionately refer to as "GPS hordes." It's a game. Without that mechanic, you might never experience a horde.)

[Aldranon]

I'm pretty sure many of the proponents of Zombies everywhere, CM up their stuff. So when the radiated cops are destroying their base, are still having their version of fun, as they spent little effort. Good for them, adrenaline rushes are fun too.

 

BUT, the people that spend weeks building up their base without CM, quickly realize that a fair fight with a "Normal" base no longer exists and so look for alternate ways to keep playing and still have some fun too.

[Prisma501]

I'm pretty sure many of the proponents of Zombies everywhere, CM up their stuff. So when the radiated cops are destroying their base, are still having their version of fun, as they spent little effort. Good for them, adrenaline rushes are fun too.

 

BUT, the people that spend weeks building up their base without CM, quickly realize that a fair fight with a "Normal" base no longer exists and so look for alternate ways to keep playing and still have some fun too.

 

Nope. No CM here.

 

Cheers

[Aurelius]

I'm pretty sure many of the proponents of Zombies everywhere, CM up their stuff.

And you'd be pretty wrong.

 

-A

[crazywildfire]

Why not? In a real zombie apocalypse, where would you go? Some place 100 percent safe from zombies. Where would that be? My friends and I decided that this would be a cruise ship anchored off the coast. Lots of room and lots of food. What's the problem with that scenario? The food eventually would run out, meaning that we would have to leave our safe place to forage, thus risking encounters with zombies.

 

I agree with the emphasis that some have placed on environmental dangers to underground living, or even on coaxing players to leave their safe haven for something worth while. Make the people need to go where zombies are rather than making zombies come to them. (Except I don't mind what people not-so-affectionately refer to as "GPS hordes." It's a game. Without that mechanic, you might never experience a horde.)

 

In a real apocalypse I can think of many things in this game that wouldn't be real. So unless you want the game to be 100% real I can't follow where the parts you want real are good and the others are not.

[rdunham3]

Why not? In a real zombie apocalypse, where would you go? Some place 100 percent safe from zombies. Where would that be? My friends and I decided that this would be a cruise ship anchored off the coast. Lots of room and lots of food. What's the problem with that scenario? The food eventually would run out, meaning that we would have to leave our safe place to forage, thus risking encounters with zombies.

 

I agree with the emphasis that some have placed on environmental dangers to underground living, or even on coaxing players to leave their safe haven for something worth while. Make the people need to go where zombies are rather than making zombies come to them. (Except I don't mind what people not-so-affectionately refer to as "GPS hordes." It's a game. Without that mechanic, you might never experience a horde.)

 

It's not the GPS horde, per se, it's the absolute unerring GPS horde that doesn't just spawn nearby and move sort of near you, but directly at you every single time. You have to be moving quite a bit to have a horde not "wander" through your exact location within a minute or two of spawning. For slow shamblers this is mostly a nuisance but when fast mobs (ferals, dogs, bears...packs of dogs AND bears...) spawn in and beeline right for you it has an unfair feeling about it. Give the typical player danger and they're fine with it. Give them a nearly unwinnable situation, repeatedly, and you annoy them into leaving 1 star reviews and uninstalling your game. It's fine if that's on the Insane difficulty (probably for the best if it IS) but on normal default difficulty the over-the-top challenge stuff is not ok.

 

Kind of like how in Civilization 3 every AI would beeline all their combat ships from all around the world to hunt down your new privateer that none of them had ever seen but somehow knew exactly where it was. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.

[graphite]

In all this talk about the underground, it occurs to me that if Zombie AI is improved there would be little need for diggers, rats, spiders, silverfish or mutant rock people.

 

If zombies simply attack hatches and then climb down ladders, you end up with zeds roaming about your underground base.

 

Now personally, I don't have a problem with upping the ante for living underground but throwing in various dangers like gas pockets, necessary air shafts, even cave-ins (which I've never experienced except while digging in dirt for treasure). I don't even mind Kin's idea of having digger zombies that spawn outside your walls and dig a couple of blocks to get to your base.

 

But frankly, If zombies can follow the path a player takes to get into his base then Other solutions aren't really necessary.

 

Pip

 

Because it makes it easy to funnel zombies into a trap.

 

Of course with breadcrumbs or pathing to door etc blocks this will always be a problem but designing it so it is the primary pathing just creates a easy killzone which defeats the object of increasing difficulty.

[Janna3921]

Suggestion:. Let's turn our attention to what TFP likes most. SPECULATION!

 

Considering what we have seen confirmed for A17, and what seems to be important to going Gold, what do we think is gonna go down in A17?

 

And does anyone think it's possible this is a first pass at full feature installment in prep for beta?

 

I think that what we see in Alpha 17 is the revision of the physic system. I don't know what that all entails, but I am going how things work and fix the problems, such as the minibike. We do know the hog has been added along with the bicycle, and I think they will fix the problem in smell, refine stealth, and revamp the looting system, give the more dangerous zombies not just some loot but some good loot to make it worthwhile to fight them.

When will it be released? I don't think before January; July was when A16 was released and even though there was a remark somewhere that a17 wouldn't take as long, they have new people to get trained, all the problems to fix, what is really important to add so it can take at the least eight months or more.

 

Prep for beta? No, not possible. They still have too much to add, we don't yet if the raiders and NPC are going to be in a17 and the Duke boss, when will he be added? I can't see all that being ready unless they take a whole year and I can't see that happening, there will be bad publicity for it taking so long, look how bad it was with A16. As for how many more alphas, at lest 18 and probably 19. To clarify, there will be a alpha 18 and a alpha 19, it could, maybe, possibly be alpha 20 but I don't think it will go that far. But only TFPs know.

 

The problem is that a large majority of people don't realize or understand how long it can take a game from day of creation to date it is released, and that is gold release. Many get Early Access on Steam as the release for beta.

Empyerion was created in 2013, Planet Explorers I think in 2014, probably earlier, and Subnautica in 2013. PE is fully finished and now gold from what I read. Subnautica is supposed to be released as gold during Oct or Nov, Empyerion is getting close to beta I think. Those are just three games I own and have some info on.

This can cause unreasonable expectation from the general public, so if they take three, four or five more years it can cause problems for when they create another game. I hate to see that happen so I am hoping that it doesn't take more than one to one and a half years to go gold. I want to see more games that TFPs create, hopefully a sequel to this game, maybe.

[Professor-Pip]

Because it makes it easy to funnel zombies into a trap.

 

Of course with breadcrumbs or pathing to door etc blocks this will always be a problem but designing it so it is the primary pathing just creates a easy killzone which defeats the object of increasing difficulty.

 

But if the zombies are following the strongest "scent trail" then they would be following you into your base, not your trap. Unless you are referring to a tunnel lined with traps, which is similar to how we design bases upside.

 

Pip

[Royal Deluxe]

Not everything has to have gray in it.

 

It is true turn off if you want no threat....

WTF when did i say i want no Challenge or no threats ?

Can you please stop placing words in my mouth.

 

(The folowing idiot is not meaned as offense against you as player, its meaned about your avatar, and no i cant write it softer, this is the softest version i found after i replaced 5 times the word/sentence with a softer version)

 

I like to play the game like it is real, if you want to act like a idiot and doing senseless dangerous things, fine. Your game your fun.

 

But i prefer to act smart and i want a world that behave a bit like real, so

No ninjaspawning zombies in corners of walls made of Steel.

No Teleporters,

No Zombieghosts,

No GPS Zombies that find you 100 Meters deep under the ground

No damn zombie that Dig 50 Meters Deep, trash 4 meter thick Steel walls and destroy the players base.

 

When i leave my base there are enough zombies that are threats.

 

But sure maybe its better to play on a safe Surface Base, Kill the Hordes from safety and loot them. So you need not to loot Containers in the Pois, there you could maybe die.

[Aldranon]

And you'd be pretty wrong.

 

-A

 

And you know all the people who want zombies everywhere? You play with them all?

 

I make a better guess as few people want something they worked for a long time randomly destroyed.

 

Its just human nature.

[Aurelius]

No damn zombie that Dig 50 Meters Deep, trash 4 meter thick Steel walls and destroy the players base.

 

I can get behind this 100% - on one condition.

 

The player can't make anything better than cobblestone.

 

-A

[Royal Deluxe]

I can get behind this 100% - on one condition.

 

The player can't make anything better than cobblestone.

 

-A

 

Means one hit from some zombies ?!

 

(But yes, the actuall system is really senseless, The player got better and better materials and the answer was to raise the Zombiedamage)

[crazywildfire]

WTF when did i say i want no Challenge or no threats ?

Can you please stop placing words in my mouth.

 

(The folowing idiot is not meaned as offense against you as player, its meaned about your avatar, and no i cant write it softer, this is the softest version i found after i replaced 5 times the word/sentence with a softer version)

 

I like to play the game like it is real, if you want to act like a idiot and doing senseless dangerous things, fine. Your game your fun.

 

But i prefer to act smart and i want a world that behave a bit like real, so

No ninjaspawning zombies in corners of walls made of Steel.

No Teleporters,

No Zombieghosts,

No GPS Zombies that find you 100 Meters deep under the ground

No damn zombie that Dig 50 Meters Deep, trash 4 meter thick Steel walls and destroy the players base.

 

When i leave my base there are enough zombies that are threats.

 

But sure maybe its better to play on a safe Surface Base, Kill the Hordes from safety and loot them. So you need not to loot Containers in the Pois, there you could maybe die.

 

Lol dude take a chill pill. Not our fault you quated someone and wasn't specific. So no oneed put words in your mouth. Sorry you feel that way.

 

At the same time nobody is forcing you to loot the bodies either. So maybe that should be a game option as well. Zombies have no loot.

 

Just being real for this game with zombies on no place should be 100% safe. You can play anyway you wish to play don't hurt my feelings any at all but still no place should be 100% safe with zombies turned on. Nothing you can say can change that theory. As of now that is all it is. Maybe they will take your side maybe not. I just recall them saying a long time ago pretty much the same thing. So who knows maybe minds have changed or maybe the balance of what they thought isn't working right or something. Regardless I personally feel no place should be 100%safe.

[Prisma501]

And you know all the people who want zombies everywhere? You play with them all?

 

I make a better guess as few people want something they work for a long time randomly destroyed.

 

Its just human nature.

 

Sooooo 42% of the players is using CM? That was the poll result for asking if zeds should always be able te reach you.

 

Well i can only speak for myself and your guess is pretty wrong on me.

 

Cheers

 

-edit- https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?75358-Zombies-Reaching-Players

[Aurelius]

And you know all the people who want zombies everywhere? You play with them all?

 

If we are going to use this logic, then I toss the ball back in your court.

 

Do you? Because if you don't know for a fact, then you are in no more of a position to be making a claim than anyone else - including me.

 

PS - If you think about it, why would anyone ask for increased difficulty when they know that they can beat it by using the CM?

 

-A

[Darkfoxx117]

For slow shamblers this is mostly a nuisance but when fast mobs (ferals, dogs, bears...packs of dogs AND bears...) spawn in and beeline right for you it has an unfair feeling about it.

 

I FEEEEEL you on this and hope it's adjusted or addressed i would much prefer multiple maybe even slightly smaller hordes roaming the area and you either have the choice to evade, lead away or just go 'Skull crushing time!'

 

The homing aspect is annoying but also it swings the other way if you're constantly moving this horde will never catch you and you might even miss it.

[Darkfoxx117]

WTF when did i say i want no Challenge or no threats ?

Can you please stop placing words in my mouth.

 

(The folowing idiot is not meaned as offense against you as player, its meaned about your avatar, and no i cant write it softer, this is the softest version i found after i replaced 5 times the word/sentence with a softer version)

 

I like to play the game like it is real, if you want to act like a idiot and doing senseless dangerous things, fine. Your game your fun.

 

But i prefer to act smart and i want a world that behave a bit like real, so

No ninjaspawning zombies in corners of walls made of Steel.

No Teleporters,

No Zombieghosts,

No GPS Zombies that find you 100 Meters deep under the ground

No damn zombie that Dig 50 Meters Deep, trash 4 meter thick Steel walls and destroy the players base.

 

When i leave my base there are enough zombies that are threats.

 

But sure maybe its better to play on a safe Surface Base, Kill the Hordes from safety and loot them. So you need not to loot Containers in the Pois, there you could maybe die.

 

I believe you're playing the wrong game my friend TFP decides how you die

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And you know all the people who want zombies everywhere? You play with them all?

 

I make a better guess as few people want something they worked for a long time randomly destroyed.

 

Its just human nature.

 

I would like zombies everywhere yes please the sleeper system has the outside a bit... well... lack lustre.... maybe bandits will up the ante but i'd still like more zombies out in the wilds.

[Aldranon]

If we are going to use this logic, then I toss the ball back in your court.

 

Do you? Because if you don't know for a fact, then you are in no more of a position to be making a claim than anyone else - including me.

 

PS - If you think about it, why would anyone ask for increased difficulty when they know that they can beat it by using the CM?

 

-A

 

You use your personal opinion to refute me and I assume your playstyle as fact for everyone.

 

I use human nature, most people do not want what they work hard for destroyed by whim and chance. That's why people buy insurance.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Sooooo 42% of the players is using CM? That was the poll result for asking if zeds should always be able te reach you.

 

Well i can only speak for myself and your guess is pretty wrong on me.

 

Cheers

 

-edit- https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?75358-Zombies-Reaching-Players

 

So if you can actually read my comment, you will see I said many, so using your numbers I am pretty sure 22% use CM

[Aurelius]

You use your personal opinion to refute me and I assume your playstyle as fact for everyone.

 

I use human nature, most people do not want what they work hard for destroyed by whim and chance. That's why people buy insurance.

 

You are correct, most people do not want what they work hard for destroyed. Using CM is not working hard for anything, by any stretch of the imagination. Therefore, anyone using CM really won't care if the zombies are made even more difficult than they are now.

 

And no, I did not use my personal opinion. I used my observation of how a bunch of other players (who want underground threats) actually play.

 

Again, you speculated. I refuted. Unless you have some evidence supporting your logic, your statement is no more valid than mine.

 

-A

[graphite]

Think everyone including myself needs a reminder that digging zombies was just a possible idea that might be used and there spawning time could be limited to BM.

 

You cannot ignore though there seems to be a design intent that there is going to more danger in the game world whatever biome.

 

There should be gameplay enhancing components and counters suggested that fit in the rough scope of the game.

 

Reasonable debate with ideas with substance.

[Aldranon]

Therefore, anyone using CM really won't care if the zombies are made even more difficult than they are now.

 

-A

 

Again you substitute your opinion for fact. A person who plays for the adrenaline rush will not spend 40 hours to get their rush when the stronger monsters start appearing, they will also want more and more intense situations to keep the rush. CM and much stronger monsters are what they would want.

 

The number of people you play with is a small minority of the entire player base.