Jackelmyer Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Never heard of it does that hotchange the mesh shape of a block. Interesting to think about if you could do that to and make those values mutable and free up ids where the only difference in blocks is the mesh shape. But i suppose if the mesh and texture is shared with many other blocks then it wont really decrease mem overhead because that is where the resources are and not in text configs. But i am more than likely wrong and i am just rambling on again. I think he's referring to something MM demoed while A16 was in core development. Where you hold down E while over a Wooden Frame for example and it gives you a screen to choose what kind of wooden frame. So you didn't have to build anything other than wood frames any more for wood frame based building. i.e. you don't have to build wooden frames and build wooden ramps. Just wooden frames and the block selector let you choose a block wooden frame or a ramp wooden frame when you held down E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna3921 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 @graphite, no, it was the irritation of the discussion going from how could digger zombies be created to the attitude of we will force those who like underground bases out come h*e*l*l or high-water remarks. It went from the a interesting topic to a "we are going to force you to get out and fight the zombies or die if you don't". What was a lousy joke was stated in earlier posts as a serious attitude of underground dwellers should be punished for choosing to stay underground. It can be discussed till the game goes gold about the good and bad of diggers, but the remarks of "for those who want to have a base underground, it shouldn't be allowed, there needs to be a way to destroy it", is what I got tired of reading. Those who have bases with a kill zone will be behind some type of bars, with blade traps, electric fences, darts, spikes and more and then go with we are out there fighting zombies. No, you are behind bars and if you do, that is your choice and more power to you, I'm not putting you down, stating shame on you, you should be made to stay inside a base that is five block thick, with a moat and a multitude of traps and weapons to be safe. I go if that is how you want to play, have fun and good luck. If I want a underground base where I can do my busy work, making steel, forged iron, tools and weapons in the safety of a underground base that should not be a problem. If I chose to make a home there, bedroom, bathroom, nice rec room with even a small pool in it and stay there on horde night it isn't hurting you any. If I chose to have that and create a kill zone and decide if I want to fight zombies or not on any night, horde night or regular night, that should be my choice. I think that if a lot of players want diggers that can destroy a underground base, then mod it in for yourself or see if it can be made as a option, it can be toggled on or off depending on how a player wants to play. @unholyjoe and others on feedback on what it means for code graveyard, thanks bunches, learned something else in computer programing, lingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I think he's referring to something MM demoed while A16 was in core development. Where you hold down E while over a Wooden Frame for example and it gives you a screen to choose what kind of wooden frame. So you didn't have to build anything other than wood frames any more for wood frame based building. i.e. you don't have to build wooden frames and build wooden ramps. Just wooden frames and the block selector let you choose a block wooden frame or a ramp wooden frame when you held down E. Yep this, mentioned in a video or in a forum post, I want to say video but am unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Yep this, mentioned in a video or in a forum post, I want to say video but am unsure. Yeah it was in a few of his YouTube videos. And I should clarify... Hold down E while a wood frame was selected on your tool belt and you were holding it to be placed. That brought up an extra window to choose what kind of wood frame block to place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stallionsden Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I'm with you on this. I want undergound threats and not JUST in reference to diggers. I want what Roland wants. To be able to game underground and be presented with an entirely new and unique set of challenges. Imagine if the devs incorporated ideas from Subnautica or Stranded Deep and made a water game as well. Can you imagine the hours of replayability to have THREE fully functioning living breathing games with their own threats? Above Ground, Below Ground, Water. Would anyone immediately say they don't want to see any water threats? And if so why would you want to stifle game content in such a way. WHY anyone would immediately want to limit that type of extension of gameplay is beyond me. Everyone always demands end game content. Perhaps underground living CAN BE end game content as it opens up a new world of horror and threats and survival and tactics. In the end it is a very substantial and viable idea. When faced with "completely safe way to overcome game challenges" or "present challenging new ideas to push the layer to become even better and introduce new threats" the idea with MORE content will ALWAYS win much to the chagrin of those who wish to play a safe mans game. Sharknado.. Crocnado lol. They def need to add either both or either to the water areas. Like starvation had. Crocs they were vicious. Heck add starvation spiders to the underground. Those things were deadly. Tho allow them to make burrow and make tunnels that don't collapse. You build a base underground and you have a chance of disturbing these radiated beasts and they attack your base and you. I much rather the spiders then diggers least there be a reasonable reason they are underground and the tunnels that don't collapse (ignore si if you will so as to not cause holes and mayhem above). PS: you forgot air threats lol... And now according to Gazz space threats :-P Aliens are coming Aliens are coming :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 It was hinted that this could free up some block id's when it was first mentioned. Essentially it was craft generic block then select the desired shape upon placement, similar to other games eg. Empyrion. Texture savings were being addressed via altering/moving away from the atlas system by memory (was a while ago so I could be totally wrong here but I think that was the general gist of it). I am just rambling again Suppose the limit is is also down to how everything (blocks & entities) in a chunk is identfied and making that value as small and efficient to parse as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 @Stallionsden Space threats no i think you misunderstand ,some of the humans escaped onto a space station safehaven and the endgame is for the suvivor to build a space rocket to be able to join them that is why we need to know SI of a spaceship because we are going to build one. SI for independent objects must be on the cards ie planes, ships, spaceships, and submarines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I much rather the spiders then diggers least there be a reasonable reason they are underground and the tunnels that don't collapse (ignore si if you will so as to not cause holes and mayhem above). Spiders, giant centipedes, giant roaches, big ol rats, scorpions, bats, baby seals... There's loads of traditional "i'm gonna get you sucka!" mobs to put in a subterranean world. With the occasional cave that leads to the surface where there's an abandoned cave settlement (or overrun settlement). Don't think we need the digging. Just more stuff underground to run into and go "HOLY CRAP!". Which then gives you more ugly stuff to pull items from for more recipes. win win! - - - Updated - - - @Stallionsden Space threats no i think you misunderstand ,some of the humans escaped onto a space station safehaven and the endgame is for the suvivor to build a space rocket to be able to join them that is why we need to know SI of a spaceship because we are going to build one. SI for independent objects must be on the cards ie planes, ships, spaceships, and submarines. Man I hope 7D2D ends up in a semi sci-fi tech era for something like this. Not that this specifically would happen, but it opens up a ton of reality bending options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 @Janna3921 I understand what you have written and the counter i would have for underground dwelling is until zombies actually follow a ramp down to a base to bedrock that: A: You can get your vehicle up and down to B: Funnel zombies at night or whenever thay attack That digger zombies are not implemented and if they are there spawn is limited and above ground spawners are bias to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 The only way I manage to consistently get the BM zombies underground is using Guppy's maze idea of a shallow moat encircling your whole base so they can drop in easily from any direction. Breadcrumbs and improved AI/pathing is something I am really looking forward to seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilleen Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 What about a granite layer that is two blocks thick between dirt and stone and SI is only calculated to Granite instead of all the way to bedrock? Then you could have as many caves and caverns below granite and it wouldn't mess with any surface structures? You could also use it as a gate for deep mining if granite could only be destroyed with a steel pickaxe? Then the only SI issues would be any tunnels dug above granite and those spots where a player punched through it to go deeper. What about, once there are a number of levels of stone (3), or dirt (6) then it becomes like bed rock. So holes would only affect a number of layers above them. This would be harder to implement I think then the granite layer idea. It could also make above ground structurally sound, if you make a platform that is 3 concrete blocks think. So as long as that platform was stable it did not matter what was above it. I am still catching up so, I have not read any posts in the future yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilleen Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 By the way, anyone tried dipping KitKats in tea (English breakfast w/milk). I've just eaten 2 Similar to Tim Tams in Coffee? Except you are supposed to drink the coffee through them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I just want to reiterate that i can see the point of people opposed to underground digging zombies but i dont compare them to if i was to say on bloodmoons the earths magnetic field is altered that primary cosmic rays pass though and effect above ground dwellers and we all have to get underground or have some kind of electromagnetic field generator on there base or face radiation posioning. I doubt anybody would want that as players who run around on horde night in the open would not be able to do this. But if i was to say on blood moon primary cosmic rays effected block damage rate so above ground bases you had less defensive chance some might see it as a challenge but would be unpopular to most players who only have there base above ground and this is where i put the underground digging zombies. Blame Stallionsden for the spacethreat examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 I just want to reiterate that i can see the point of people opposed to underground digging zombies but i dont compare them to if i was to say on bloodmoons the earths magnetic field is altered that primary cosmic rays pass though and effect above ground dwellers and we all have to get underground or have some kind of electromagnetic field generator on there base or face radiation posioning. I doubt anybody would want that as players who run around on horde night in the open would not be able to do this. But if i was to say on blood moon primary cosmic rays effected block damage rate so above ground bases you had less defensive chance some might see it as a challenge but would be unpopular to most players who only have there base above ground where i put the underground digging zombies. Blame Stallionsden for the spacethreat examples. It's all about providing means for overcoming the threat. Surface radiation on Bloodmoon night is just fine if wearing a hazmat suit counteracts it. Digging zombies are just fine if there is a way to counteract them. Any threat in the game that gives us an objective to improve our quality of life in regards to that threat is what a survival game is all about. It isn't just about the developers finding new ways to kill players. Its that AND providing means for surviving those threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhlmaster Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I never fully understood the blockID limitation to begin with. I think it comes down to a desire to limit the size of the data variable that holds the block ID. The more bits of data are required to express a block ID within the game's code, the more data needs to be stored in a chunk. I'm assuming that with a voxel system, the chunk is basically stored as a 3 dimensional matrix of block IDs. Changing the size of the block ID could have the potential to make the chunk file exponentially larger. This leads to more chunk loading lag, which nobody wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 no, it was the irritation of the discussion going from how could digger zombies be created to the attitude of we will force those who like underground bases out come hell or high-water remarks. It went from the a interesting topic to a "we are going to force you to get out and fight the zombies or die if you don't". Can you find a quote on that Janna? From what I could find it is only those who feel like you who keep bringing that into the thread accusing those who want underground threats of this motivation but I haven't found anyone who is actually talking about the threats saying that their motive is drive people out of the underworld and permanently to the surface to completely prevent them from building underground. I know my whole motivation from the beginning is to RETURN to the underworld and be able to build a base that can be threatened and have to defend it. I don't want anyone driven out. Can you point me to posts other than your own where this sentiment is being agreed upon by a group of individuals full of glee at the prospect that no gameplay would ever happen underground ever again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilleen Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 As soon as i have reinforced concrete there is no challenge to defend a 7th day horde. As soon as I have built a raised platform, to fire arrows from, 7th days hordes are not a problem, generally day 7 or 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 It's all about providing means for overcoming the threat. Surface radiation on Bloodmoon night is just fine if wearing a hazmat suit counteracts it. Digging zombies are just fine if there is a way to counteract them. Any threat in the game that gives us an objective to improve our quality of life in regards to that threat is what a survival game is all about. It isn't just about the developers finding new ways to kill players. Its that AND providing means for surviving those threats. You make an interesting point but nomad players would not be able to nomad until they had hazmat. At the momment hazmat headgear would not allow a headlight so that would be a additional downside for the nomad example. The example is kind of an alternative that some underground dwellers are asking for being equipment counters that totally cancel whatever threat is occuring but not sure they would want the underground off limits to until they had the equipment. To a small degree it is as mining without a mining hat is difficult but not impossible and adds to the heatmap using torches. But essentially the end result is different where when you get the equipment you can always counter the threats or complete tasks compared to even if you have the equipment then sometimes the enemy AI will beat you. It goes back to an earlier reply i made about frequency of tipping the balance scales and if the developers design it so it is a constant battle and this could extend the gameplay IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 You know... This is an Open World Sandbox game too... As such, there should be points where you get bored. I mean, if we're being true to the genre. Points where you get yourself so well setup that you're like... "Ok. Now what?". So if it's Tower Defense that you're shooting for, honestly shooting to defend a Tower... You'll likely gravitate toward building a tower that needs to be defended. And... you can do that... Without underground anything. Without any changes. Even without AI changes. Do you want to defend a tower? Is a stilt platform a tower you can play, "Tower Defense" from? No? Then... build a tower to defend from... Right? I mean... Is this a point we're all missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Can you find a quote on that Janna? From what I could find it is only those who feel like you who keep bringing that into the thread accusing those who want underground threats of this motivation but I haven't found anyone who is actually talking about the threats saying that their motive is drive people out of the underworld and permanently to the surface to completely prevent them from building underground. Posts that show this intention clear are really rare. But posts with that subtext are more common. As Baserock Dweller you will see it very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 You know... This is an Open World Sandbox game too... As such, there should be points where you get bored. I mean, if we're being true to the genre. Points where you get yourself so well setup that you're like... "Ok. Now what?". So if it's Tower Defense that you're shooting for, honestly shooting to defend a Tower... You'll likely gravitate toward building a tower that needs to be defended. And... you can do that... Without underground anything. Without any changes. Even without AI changes. Do you want to defend a tower? Is a stilt platform a tower you can play, "Tower Defense" from? No? Then... build a tower to defend from... Right? I mean... Is this a point we're all missing here? I think the nature of the beast of being a early access game in alpha is the developers want to reward long term players with a game they can continue playing and give new players an even longer experience. Extending the gameplay lifespan is difficult and a huge part of it is players trying new things. The game has not hit the limit of variation within its scope but getting there is a bumpy ride for community and developers. So all the time the game is being added to and existing componants are tweaked and polished then i dont think getting bored will be a major point. If anything this game has too much gameplay scope and a complete vacuum on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 ..Personally (well my husband agrees with me), I think the only zed that should have digging capabilities is the zombie dog. Digging is not instinctual in humans, but it is in dogs and other canines.. Agree ..and Bears. Imagine denning/hibernating bears in the snow biome. ..Click image for larger version. Name: silverfish.png There's no way I'm clicking on that lol. Nope. So is this a left handed thread, a right handed thread, or a back handed thread? Yeah but this is why we get more Kardashian and Teen Mom shows and less Hannibal and Firefly. What you say may be true, but catering to the common denominator is what is killing the game industry and the entertainment industry. There is nothing wrong with being unique as long as you are excelling at being unique. Otherwise all we get are PUBG clones for the rest of time. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 This made me smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Okay, you're technically correct. How about this then? The SI of stone is 7 by the way. I'm pretty stuck on this granite thing. The more I look at this and think about AI changes that may include a zombie targeting blocks that support player made blocks, the more this type of example doesn't matter any more. And granite, being nothing more than a Stone block that turns the block above it into a Fully Supported block, opens up the entire subterranean into a POI ready biome. Which, I think would be awesome. Whatever Perlin issues they ran into, if this was incorporated into the Perlin system, SI wouldn't be an issue. Sorry for the rehash on this one. It's just sticking with me and can't seem to shake it. - - - Updated - - - lol. There's always another option. X-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Posts that show this intention clear are really rare. But posts with that subtext are more common. As Baserock Dweller you will see it very fast. A couple of people on this forum have accused me of doing exactly this, but you can ask TSBX, Guppycur, Doombringer, or StompyNZ if I've ever held the animosity you speak of. They'll most likely tell you "no", and we've had some good, long, in-depth conversations on the topic. (Full disclosure - I'm all for zombies wrecking a base above, below, and inside-out. Along with other threats that will make life more challenging in any biome.) My point being, people around here have a tendency to project waaaay too much. Especially when it comes to hot topics like "underground dwelling". If you disagree with a stance someone holds, that's fine - but don't read into their posts that they are out to get you. -A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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