Still no jars

[warmer]

24 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@warmer I meant ofc rage mode not feral sense obviously.

 

And no we don´t agree. A rage mode toggle and bringing back glass jars are two completly different things. One is easy, the other needs a whole rework or a game mechanic again. Rage mode should be a toggle in vanilla that´s a simple change. Bringing back glass jars would delay development.  Because if they bring them back (which is 100% not happening, that´s the true reason why here "mod it" is the only option) they surely wouldn´t just bring it back like it was before.

.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how coding works. Bringing jars back is actually simple in comparison than reworking every entity AI to removing that function. A toggle button does nothing by itself. You need to make that toggle button modify a file on the fly for that specific aspect of the game. That is an entity condition.

 

Feral sense is a Player condition that can be changing with a single value.

 

Rage is a condition associated with each entity as a unique rule. It is not a blanket rule like feral sense.

 

This is why you don't understand my point of view. You a missing the understanding of what you are actually asking to be done. Asking for someone to bring a rock back from the moon is a lot more complex than simply asking the question.

[aceguy7]

12 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

...How is this a glitch?

I don't know if its a glitch or an intended "feature" seems op or cheap if it is lol? The bucket is useless? by the time you get one your swimming in water with 3 or 4 dew collectors anyways I don't see the point. lol

Edited October 10 by aceguy7 (see edit history)

[fragtzack]

We have no jars because there is no spoon.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rotor]

A few jar discussions ago, it was understood by all that the Jars themselves is not the issue.   Too lazy to look it up.

[Old Crow]

8 hours ago, aceguy7 said:

I don't know if its a glitch or an intended "feature" seems op or cheap if it is lol? The bucket is useless? by the time you get one your swimming in water with 3 or 4 dew collectors anyways I don't see the point. lol

 

It's pretty much intended. Plus the bucket can be used to carry water for other reasons, like if you want to make a pond or swimming pool at your base.

[Roland]

On 10/9/2024 at 7:45 AM, InfiniteWarrior said:

But, of course, we all know it's not drinking water TFP have an issue with but glue and duct tape.

 

It's none of those things. TFP just had an issue with empty jars and that is mostly the long and the short of it. They wanted empty jars to be gone and they erased them. Then they chose a design that could be implemented without the empty jars.

 

I've said it from the beginning that even if TFP did away with dew collectors and went in a different direction, it would never include bringing back empty jars. This is not about TFP being anti-glue or anti-duct tape. It's just about the jars.

[pApA^LeGBa]

The anti duct tape part would be the amount of cloth you need to craft them now.

[Roland]

18 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

The anti duct tape part would be the amount of cloth you need to craft them now.

 

That perspective just ignores the fact that the amount of cloth needed for ALL recipes went up. One man's anti duct tape conspiracy theory is another man's pro cotton farming agenda proposal...

[pApA^LeGBa]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

That perspective just ignores the fact that the amount of cloth needed for ALL recipes went up. One man's anti duct tape conspiracy theory is another man's pro cotton farming agenda proposal...

 

Are you trying to imply that they didn´t exactly know that this will influence mostly duct tape production? I didn´t even recognize that other recipe  costs have gone up. That part can be neglected tbh.

Edited October 12 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

18 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Are you trying to imply that they didn´t exactly know that this will influence mostly duct tape production? I didn´t even recognize that other recipe  costs have gone up. That part can be neglected tbh.

 

Knowing what the results of a change will be is different than having that result as the motivating reason for making the change. Of course they knew the impact of their changes. They made those changes before it was released as an update and internal QA guys played with the changes. 

 

In my profession I assign grades based on the performance of my students. I know that an F grade is going to result in an athlete not being able to play in their next game. But I didn't assign the F in order to get them benched. The belief of some players that the devs don't want them to have duct tape and that's why the devs increased the cloth cost and removed jars is just as ridiculous as my student complaining to his Dad that his teacher just didn't want him to play in the game this weekend.

[RipClaw]

On 10/12/2024 at 3:53 AM, Roland said:

One man's anti duct tape conspiracy theory is another man's pro cotton farming agenda proposal...

I have a different theory. The FunPimps hate curtains and are now forcing all players to harvest curtains for cloth.

[Roland]

 

[Old Crow]

On 10/11/2024 at 5:11 PM, Roland said:

 

It's none of those things. TFP just had an issue with empty jars and that is mostly the long and the short of it. They wanted empty jars to be gone and they erased them. Then they chose a design that could be implemented without the empty jars.

 

I've said it from the beginning that even if TFP did away with dew collectors and went in a different direction, it would never include bringing back empty jars. This is not about TFP being anti-glue or anti-duct tape. It's just about the jars.

 

I seem tor recall in one of those devstreams prior to jars being removed, they'd (not sure who it was, it's been a few years) said in addition to wanting to remove empty jars to keep that in line with other consumables not kicking back an empty container of some sort, they also wanted early hydration to be a struggle like early game hunger was, so things weren't too easy.

[pApA^LeGBa]

11 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Knowing what the results of a change will be is different than having that result as the motivating reason for making the change. Of course they knew the impact of their changes. They made those changes before it was released as an update and internal QA guys played with the changes.

 

So you are saying they didn´t know before that this will only influence duct tape production severely and that everything else won´t be effected that hard? Really? Not a very flattering opinion on the devs you have there....

 

Anyways, i hope they change something there. Maybe more water needed instead of cloth. Right now vanilla game play in Coop is that a huge part of time is spent going for cloth and magazines. All the time. It´s the cloth and magazin hunting simulator.

Edited October 13 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

8 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

So you are saying they didn´t know before that this will only influence duct tape production severely and that everything else won´t be effected that hard? Really? Not a very flattering opinion on the devs you have there....

 

How did you get that conclusion from what I said? Something being lost in translation....?

 

8 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Anyways, i hope they change something there. Maybe more water needed instead of cloth. Right now vanilla game play in Coop is that a huge part of time is spent going for cloth and magazines. All the time. It´s the cloth and magazin hunting simulator.

 

Have you tried creating a cotton farm? Maybe you are under the impression that the cotton plant in 1.0 is as insignificant gamewise as it was pre-A21...

[Roland]

 

8 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

I seem tor recall in one of those devstreams prior to jars being removed, they'd (not sure who it was, it's been a few years) said in addition to wanting to remove empty jars to keep that in line with other consumables not kicking back an empty container of some sort, they also wanted early hydration to be a struggle like early game hunger was, so things weren't too easy.

 

That was part of their design goal for redesigning how water survival would work once the jars were gone but it wasn't the motivation for removing jars in the first place. Once they committed to the removal of jars they started redesigning water survival and, yes, at that point they wanted to make it more challenging and more of a progression where water abundance was achievable over time.

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

That was part of their design goal for redesigning how water survival would work once the jars were gone but it wasn't the motivation for removing jars in the first place. Once they committed to the removal of jars they started redesigning water survival and, yes, at that point they wanted to make it more challenging and more of a progression where water abundance was achievable over time.

 

Seems similar to Quad Pocket mods.  Decision was made to revamp clothing / armor.  When that was being worked on, they looked at encumbrance and noted that without the clothing pocket mods, they needed to look at making changes to armor pocket mods - hence Quads

[pApA^LeGBa]

@RolandNothing lost in translation. You said it wasn´t their main goal to nerf duct tape. But if you plan on making duct tape cost significantly more cloth, you clearly know that you are mainly nerfing duct tape production as it is the most crafted item that needs cloth. So yes, i say it was their goal. And if you claim it wasn´t their goal, you imply they didn´t realize what the change will do. Wich is not very flattering.

 

And yes ofc we do plant cotton. But that takes a while to establish for the amounts we need, takes up a lot of space and until then it´s hunting for cloth.

Edited October 13 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[InfiniteWarrior]

On 10/11/2024 at 9:29 PM, pApA^LeGBa said:

The anti duct tape part would be the amount of cloth you need to craft them now.

Somewhat reminiscent of needing 100 pieces of cloth to craft a pocket for your jeans, isn't it? And I'm over here thinking, "What are we crafting here? A pocket or a quilt?"

No question, the recipes are proving a bugbear (and fertile, never-ending experimental ground) for TFP. (40-60 iron ingots to craft an iron axe head and only 10 to craft a double iron door? Seriously?) They're also obviously concerned that some sources of materials and "features," e.g. mining and farming, are being ignored in favor of others. And, remember, this is on top of trying to balance a game that can be played either single or multiplayer. (Egads. I can't even imagine that last. Almost seems an impossibility.)

Personally, I'd design the recipes to make a modicum of sense and balance skill progression via other means, e.g. the skill trees. It's patently obvious, however, regardless what anyone says about their "motivations," good or ill, that TFP is trying to control the pace at which players play the game as opposed to allowing players to set their own pace, whether that be speed running it or nonchalantly skipping through the virtual woods for hours on end whistling a happy tune. There's no question in my mind (and no one need try to gaslight me about it) that the number crunching and "efficiency" experimentations of min-maxers are calling the shots when it comes to decisions such as these just as they are in Fallout 76. Of course, not all (and likely not most) people either playing the game or who might be interested in playing in the game are either min-maxers or speed runners, but that's the "meta" and, so, everyone must be playing (or be interested in playing) it like that. No? (She asked somewhat facetiously.)

Never ceases to amaze that streamers and YouTubers are designing games at this point while development studios study their metrics as though they were The Mechanist of the Automatron DLC for Fallout 4, oblivious to what is actually happening in the "wasteland", blinded by statistics, e.g. concurrent players on Steam and game sales. What else do they have to go by other than earnest community feedback? And how much of that feedback is actually earnest and in the interest of the game's overall appeal rather than personal preference? Not much, I'd wager.

[AidenwithAnAxe]

On 10/6/2024 at 7:10 AM, Javabean867 said:

I demand we bring back bowls for our stew!

then they have to add bowls for water too! so you can feed your crawler zombie xD

[Urban Blackbear]

We should just have Everquest's level of crafting. Want to make a bowl of stew? First you'll need quality clay, firing sheets, a bowl sketch, and a kiln. BTW the bowl sketch can't be reused for some reason and you'll need as many of those as you want bowls.

[Javabean867]

2 hours ago, Urban Blackbear said:

We should just have Everquest's level of crafting. Want to make a bowl of stew? First you'll need quality clay, firing sheets, a bowl sketch, and a kiln. BTW the bowl sketch can't be reused for some reason and you'll need as many of those as you want bowls.

good thing you can craft the bowl sketch.  you need a clay bowl, a piece of paper and a piece of coal.  the bowl of course is destroyed lol.