12 years and THIS is the big 1.0?

[Ncredible1201]

12 years of hard work and you spent most of that time changing things nobody asked to be changed (Most of how the skill system works, and the cursor for menu's, you were forced to put that back).

You spend that time also removing features nobody asked to be removed (Putting water in a jar, what numbnut decided to remove that from a SURVIVAL GAME). 

Then your 1.0 update doesn't even add major additions to the game like a functional weather system and cross play. Those two alone are enough for a 1.0 update yet both those features are 6 months to a year out!?!! What kind of 1.0 update/ full release, doesn't add major content? Zombies with different shirts? That's essentially the biggest addition in this "1.0 update" You brought the new game to console, then said we have to wait 6 months to play with friends on PC or Xbox....

 

I would have thought a development team would focus on what the players wanted, and not what "ideas" a few people had they want to try willy nilly and hope players like it, instead of, I don't know, maybe ask them instead? I guess common sense isn't a job requirement for game development. 

 

I guess technically future updates will be better than this one since they will essentially contain the content this update didn't provide, instead it was thrown on a road map for the next year to come. 

 

[Riamus]

13 minutes ago, Ncredible1201 said:

12 years of hard work and you spent most of that time changing things nobody asked to be changed (Most of how the skill system works, and the cursor for menu's, you were forced to put that back).

You spend that time also removing features nobody asked to be removed (Putting water in a jar, what numbnut decided to remove that from a SURVIVAL GAME). 

Then your 1.0 update doesn't even add major additions to the game like a functional weather system and cross play. Those two alone are enough for a 1.0 update yet both those features are 6 months to a year out!?!! What kind of 1.0 update/ full release, doesn't add major content? Zombies with different shirts? That's essentially the biggest addition in this "1.0 update" You brought the new game to console, then said we have to wait 6 months to play with friends on PC or Xbox....

 

I would have thought a development team would focus on what the players wanted, and not what "ideas" a few people had they want to try willy nilly and hope players like it, instead of, I don't know, maybe ask them instead? I guess common sense isn't a job requirement for game development. 

 

I guess technically future updates will be better than this one since they will essentially contain the content this update didn't provide, instead it was thrown on a road map for the next year to come. 

 

1.0 is not gold.  The game is still in alpha regardless of the name change.  Gold will be in a couple years per the roadmap and will include things like the weather changes you mention.

 

And developers make the game they want.  If it coincides with player wants, great.  If not, then so be it.  They might adjust things that are requested or not liked, but they don't have to and major things aren't likely to be changed.  Besides, any feature you think of will have people who like it one way and people who like it another.  So saying they don't do something the way players want is not really accurate. 

 

Regarding cross play, it already works for the devs.  But they need to go through an approval process with Sony and Microsoft before it is allowed and those companies are the ones who determine how much cross play is allowed.  And what if they did wait until cross play was available before releasing to console?  You would still get cross play at the same time but would prevent all the console players from being able to play the new version at all for that extra time.  I can just about guarantee that most console players would prefer getting it without cross play now and then get cross play later rather than have to wait until cross play is available.

Edited July 25 by Riamus (see edit history)

[theFlu]

3 minutes ago, Riamus said:

1.0 is not gold.

This is unique to TFP, though, so that doesn't really shift the blame.. sadly

[Riamus]

1 minute ago, theFlu said:

This is unique to TFP, though, so that doesn't really shift the blame.. sadly

Oh, I don't disagree there.  They did it because of console (probably), but it really screws up people's expectations.

[Verdigriss]

I can tell you for sure that among most players, adding cockamamie systems like 'dew collectors' and taking away straightforward, intuitive systems like collecting water from ponds, then boiling it to purify it, are not "enhancing" anyone's "survival experience."

The devs indeed make the game they want, but Riamus seems to be using that to try to invalidate the reactions of players.  The devs make the game they want and the players on the forum have the reactions they want.

 

A tiny but vocal cadre of fans are ruining this game by giving the devs incredibly poor feedback because they are 750,000 hours into the game and cannot imagine what the average person feels like when playing this game.

"Oh, this place looks safe."
   "No, the zombies will tear through brick walls and steel doors with their bare hands on horde night.  You need to construct a maze with an open path to you and fill it with traps."

"Oh, a lake, that'll be a good source of water."
    "No, bodies of water have nothing to do with ...water, you need to build dew collectors using a part only provided by the local trader."

"I need to buy a part to collect basic survival resources?"
    "Yes."

"This... isn't a survival game, is it?"
    "...No, not really.  But you can buy magic candy."

[theFlu]

2 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

you need to build dew collectors using a part only provided by the local trader.

While I fully agree with "lemme get the water from the darn lake", the rain catcher situation was mildly improved in A22 as you no longer need to buy parts for it. The water filter is just an accessory to avoid boiling now.

[Verdigriss]

Thank god.
I used to passionately love this game but the changelog has me struggling to drum up the interest to play it these days.  Character progression being linked primarily to checking mailboxes for comic books is another change that makes me very sad.

 

I recognize that some vociferous people love these changes, and probably the best option for everyone is for TFP to have some options in the menu like LBD or Loot-based advancement, Presence or absence of Colossi, etc.

[Ncredible1201]

3 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

I recognize that some vociferous people love these changes, and probably the best option for everyone is for TFP to have some options in the menu like LBD or Loot-based advancement, Presence or absence of Colossi, etc.

That's not a bad idea. Give you an option on how you want the progression system to act. I haven't played the new update but all the videos and reviews I'm seeing I don't care for ANY of the new changes.

 

If anything they should have done characters like Zomboid where people have skills like in real life. A mechanic shouldn't need to read 50 books to learn how to work on a car. A hunting specialist should know how to skin a deer for the most meat. Etc.

27 minutes ago, Riamus said:

And developers make the game they want.  If it coincides with player wants, great.  If not, then so be it.  They might adjust things that are requested or not liked, but they don't have to and major things aren't likely to be changed.  Besides, any feature you think of will have people who like it one way and people who like it another.  So saying they don't do something the way players want is not really accurate. 

 

I hear ya, the problem with the changes is I'm pretty sure most of the changes weren't requested. They just wanted to "spice things up" by altering features and how the game progresses. Game was getting solid till they slowly turned away from "realistic survival" and leaned towards "arcade survival"

[warmer]

WTF is with people who played 100's of hours of a game and more that got their money's worth, yet still feel the need to UNLOAD like this. You are 1 guy out of 18 million opinions.

The biggest problem I see with online discourse is the incorrect use of and assumption of things like

everybody
no one
never
always

You are basing your perspective on a very limited amount of data. 18 million people don't share or oppose your opinion. 
When we think in absolutes, we can't begin to compromise or understand the other opinions being presented.

I LIKE that jars were removed and dew collectors added. It makes finding a cooking pot feel like getting away with robbing a bank. H2O was way too easy before and only food was an issue, now in MY opinion, it feels balanced.

Edited July 25 by warmer (see edit history)

[GhostlyTurtle]

9 minutes ago, warmer said:

WTF is with people who played 100's of hours of a game and more that got their money's worth, yet still feel the need to UNLOAD like this. You are 1 guy out of 18 million opinions.

The biggest problem I see with online discourse is the incorrect use of and assumption of things like

everybody
no one
never
always

You are basing your perspective on a very limited amount of data. 18 million people don't share or oppose your opinion. 
When we think in absolutes, we can't begin to compromise or understand the other opinions being presented.

I LIKE that jars were removed and dew collectors added. It makes finding a cooking pot feel like getting away with robbing a bank. H2O was way too easy before and only food was an issue, now in MY opinion, it feels balanced.

I entirely agree I get the frustration with the removal of jars but after the first week you never had a water issue again so it took out the difficulty of surviving, i also like the system of having a machine that constantly generates it just because it adds more to progression and the workstations skills especially with also having to get mods to make it good it just adds a little more gameplay and difficulty which is a welcome thing to me. I also quite enjoy the magazine system where you learn from reading. It adds more reasoning to loot and quest and is way better than learning through skills, I have my issues with how they spawn but it still is a much better system. I was not mad about the game being in alpha for years either it just meant more content and better systems the game is in a way better state than ever because of that. There's a lot of negativity about this game not being the exact way people want or not if you want to go play an old version do it or get a mod but I enjoy a majority of the game atm I'm tired of so much negativity over a great game that they are still improving.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Verdigriss said:

The devs indeed make the game they want, but Riamus seems to be using that to try to invalidate the reactions of players.  The devs make the game they want and the players on the forum have the reactions they want.

No, that was in response to the statement that devs don't focus on what players want.  They aren't going to.  They will focus on what they want.  They will listen to feedback and feedback is good.  I never said otherwise.  But they aren't going to remove some new feature or change just because a "ocal cadre of fans" complain about it.  A minor change, maybe.  But a make change like magazines or water?  Not going to happen because they would have likely doesn't months working on that and aren't going to scrap it just because some don't like it.  People can leave feedback both for and against features (I have as well), but you need to be realistic on expectations, too.  Devs are listening and many of the recent changes in 1.0 experimental show that.  But make changes aren't going to be made because some people want "the good old days" back.

[BFT2020]

52 minutes ago, Ncredible1201 said:

That's not a bad idea. Give you an option on how you want the progression system to act. I haven't played the new update but all the videos and reviews I'm seeing I don't care for ANY of the new changes.

 

 

That requires a mod level change, not a simple toggle switch or drop down option in the settings page.

[Maharin]

Just enjoy the simple fact that they allow (and encourage) you to change the game into whatever makes you happy.

 

No, really, try to think on that for a while.

[Verdigriss]

18 minutes ago, warmer said:

WTF is with people who played 100's of hours of a game and more that got their money's worth, yet still feel the need to UNLOAD like this. You are 1 guy out of 18 million opinions.

 

There are multiple people here agreeing that dew collectors are a bad move, not 1.

 

19 minutes ago, warmer said:

H2O was way too easy before and only food was an issue, now in MY opinion, it feels balanced.

 

There could have been innumerable ways of making water acquisition more balanced in an intuitive way, without tossing out obvious water sourcing from rivers and forcing dew collection (a very obscure method only ever used in very specific circumstances).

[Orclover]

Oh hey 7D2D just dropped 1.0, I bet people are estatic about the game now.  Lets check the old forums and see how its going for release!

 

 

[Verdigriss]

5 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Not going to happen because they would have likely doesn't months working on that and aren't going to scrap it just because some don't like it. 

The Devs scrapped TONS of features from the game that represented enormous amounts of work.

Wasps and their hives
UMA zombies
The Colossus zombie
Zip lines

They scrap stuff ALL THE TIME.  TFP could have made (and successfully sold) 7DTD 2 just from the features they cut from this game.

[Maharin]

2 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

The Devs scrapped TONS of features from the game that represented enormous amounts of work.

Wasps and their hives
UMA zombies
The Colossus zombie
Zip lines

They scrap stuff ALL THE TIME.  TFP could have made (and successfully sold) 7DTD 2 just from the features they cut from this game.

 

For every person that loved the wasps there were others that hated them, just like the vultures.

 

UMA zombies were removed for the sake of performance and optimization.  It was a good move for this game whether you want to believe it or not.

 

The larger zombie models (announced and unannounced) were scrapped because the code to make them work with everything else in a fully voxel game was too costly for what you'd get in return.  Also a good move for this game.

 

Zip lines... yeah, well, you got me there.  I was voting for feral zip lines.

 

Anyway, you forgot a few:  sharp sticks, crafting grid, fatigue or whatever that was called, gun parts, S&M chambers, etc.  If you want it added in either mod it in yourself or go to the mod forums and ask if someone else was planning to do it.

 

[meganoth]

13 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

The Devs scrapped TONS of features from the game that represented enormous amounts of work.

Wasps and their hives
UMA zombies
The Colossus zombie
Zip lines

They scrap stuff ALL THE TIME.  TFP could have made (and successfully sold) 7DTD 2 just from the features they cut from this game.

 

UMA and Colossus zombies were both scrapped because of major technical problems. Show them there are technical problems of the dew collector and they surely will scrap that feature 😉

 

Zip lines were scrapped even though a very vocal minority here on the forum by the name of Roland really really wanted that feature. It was deemed too powerful because people could get away from danger too easy (at least this was listed as one of the reasons, often there are more than one reason for doing a change)

 

 

Edited July 25 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Riamus]

19 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

 

There are multiple people here agreeing that dew collectors are a bad move, not 1.

 

And many who like the changes.  Don't forget that.  I like that jars are gone.  I want too happy with the original dress collectors, but the changes in 1.0 are really good.  They will never please everyone and stop there is no reason to try.  They will make the game how they want it and we, as players, have no "right" to have the game made the way we want.  We can make suggestions.  We can complain.  We can offer feedback.  But I'm the end, they will choose what works best from their end.  Developers don't ever have to listen to their players.  Many do, but usually only in very limited ways.  But they don't have to and they don't need to not do something just because some people don't want it.  Especially when some people will want it.

 

16 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

The Devs scrapped TONS of features from the game that represented enormous amounts of work.

Wasps and their hives
UMA zombies
The Colossus zombie
Zip lines

They scrap stuff ALL THE TIME.  TFP could have made (and successfully sold) 7DTD 2 just from the features they cut from this game.

There is a difference.  Those were tried and, for the reason it another, failed.  Or were considered not good enough.  Or were placeholders until the game reached the end.  In order to make the game playable in early access (especially 10+ years ago) , they had to add stuff that could be done quickly and easily even if it wasn't the intended final product.

 

Maharin already have reasons why those were changed, so I won't get into them.  But there are trains and players rarely know what those are.  I didn't agree with everything they do, but I accept that it is their game and I'm just lucky enough to be able to play any version I want and with any mods I want.

Edited July 25 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Ncredible1201]

40 minutes ago, warmer said:

I LIKE that jars were removed and dew collectors added. It makes finding a cooking pot feel like getting away with robbing a bank. H2O was way too easy before and only food was an issue, now in MY opinion, it feels balanced.

That's not survivalist though. In real life depending on where you live (or location on the map) can go down the road to a little river and collect as much water as you can carry and bring it home and boil then let cool. If you need food, yeah that's gonna be harder just like real life. You'll need to set traps or wait in a tree for a deer. What you just said is true, water is easier to collect than food, why make it harder for no reason except "so I have another thing to worry about"?

[Verdigriss]

1 minute ago, Ncredible1201 said:

That's not survivalist though. 

Stop, or Riamus is going to start shrieking again in all caps about how he LIKES it and Devs don't have to do what anyone wants.

[theFlu]

3 minutes ago, Ncredible1201 said:

why make it harder for no reason except "so I have another thing to worry about"?

Don't ask. Basically, to make you choose between drinking and crafting glue. Giggle ..

[Maharin]

1 minute ago, theFlu said:

Don't ask. Basically, to make you choose between drinking and crafting glue. Giggle ..

 

Or you could just mod in the ability to drink glue.  Just sayin'.

[Roland]

5 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

Stop, or Riamus is going to start shrieking again in all caps about how he LIKES it and Devs don't have to do what anyone wants.

 

Could you point me to the first time he shrieked in all caps? I'd like to read that post before he tries it again....

[theFlu]

1 minute ago, Maharin said:

Or you could just mod in the ability to drink glue.  Just sayin'.

I mean.. it'd achieve the same result, and be roughly as logical as this current one. Can't distill H2O from a lake versus homemade bone glue being basically bone broth..