Bring back water jars or let us craft them!

[bwguy]

Please bring back the water jars. You could make them to where they are craft able at least. You could add a limited amount of use on the water jars to where they break after so long but please also make them craft able as well. The new water system is ridiculous. 

[Old Crow]

They're not bringing them back. There's better ways they could have handled the water "issue" yeah, but they're not bringing jars back.

[Maharin]

You have options. 

 

• Return to a previous version that has jars
• Use a mod that adds them back in
• Mod jars back in yourself
• Learn to adapt
• ...
• Profit

 

[Stranded_Napkin]

Nothing concrete, but the rumor going around the the alcohol section of Walmart is that The Fun Pimps removed them for the specific purpose of getting more players to use mods. Something about a #vanillablows or something. lol

[drgnkght]

Personally, I think the Fun Pimps don't care about the jars at all. Jars aren't, and never were, the problem the Fun Pimps were trying to solve. In my opinion, the thing the Fun Pimps were trying to remove was access to environmental water. Environmental water isn't RNG/progression-gated. It's always there and available. So they couldn't restrict its availability in order to extend/balance the game. Removing the players' ability to collect environmental water as previously implemented required removing the glass jars so they're gone. I liked the jars as well, but asking for them to be restored is pointless. It would break the artificial scarcity they're attempting to enforce. (I think this is why they don't seem care about the water filter mod. You can't use it for crafting.)

[Stranded_Napkin]

4 minutes ago, drgnkght said:

Removing the players' ability to collect environmental water as previously implemented required removing the glass jars so they're gone.

while I'm not a huge proponent of "put it back in" as much as I bang the drum of "it was just a bad move in the first place", it wasn't a requirement. What was required was balancing. Breaking jars, increases to the materials in the recipe to make jars, as well as making it a two piece process, make jars and make lids, they could have significantly increased the time and cost of making jars. The Fun Pimps are just lazy. Instead of doing balancing, they remove entire items.

[theFlu]

They seem a little lost in a forest of their own creation. They wanted to get rid of the jars and jar management in favor of more interesting things. This seems fine to me, I don't miss the inventory / loot table clutter. They also wanted to limit the amount of explosives people can craft early... as the only non-gunpowder ingredient to limit for exploding arrows is duct tape, they wanted to limit That. Just .. why? Make a new form of "gunpowder", "High Explosives" and make it a slow / expensive craft in the chem station. Or something, whatever. Whatever else!

 

Puddle Water should not be drinkable AND unusable; don't try to fix a convoluted crafting system by breaking from real world logic just to rate limit something silly. And please just get rid of the duct tape anyway, having your drones be better the more rolls of tape you use on them is just wrong. You can bring back some tape for some items that are a good fit like cloth armor and splints, but don't use it as a sink... The situation would require a crafting overhaul, which would be a lot of work, but please! Pretty please Do it, you want it to make sense!

[Arez]

I started playing at A21 so I only knew the water system as it is now. But I eventually loaded up A16 just to see what it was like and I thought the jar system was kinda ridiculous. I had 50 or so fresh waters by day 2. I think the water system now is much better.

 

But if you really want the jars back, just get a mod that puts them back in. Another thing I noticed about A16 is that the nights were much darker. I don't like how bright it is at night in A21. So I found a mod, Dark Nights by DoughPhunghus. It's wonderful. I can't see @%$# at night, unless I have a helmet light or something. 

 

Now if there was only a mod that would let it get darker earlier and go later (8pm - 530am maybe), then things will be near perfect.

Edited January 14 by Arez (see edit history)

[Kandesbunzler]

2 hours ago, Arez said:

Now if there was only a mod that would let it get darker earlier and go later (8pm - 530am maybe), then things will be near perfect.

Are u talking about day/night length? You can adjust that in the settings starting a new game...

[Arez]

25 minutes ago, Kandesbunzler said:

Are u talking about day/night length? You can adjust that in the settings starting a new game...

I did that, but all it seems to do is make it so the zombies run for longer. If I add 2 hours, it still gets dark by 10 or 11pm and gets bright by 4am but the zombies will be able to run until 6am.

[Kandesbunzler]

31 minutes ago, Arez said:

I did that, but all it seems to do is make it so the zombies run for longer. If I add 2 hours, it still gets dark by 10 or 11pm and gets bright by 4am but the zombies will be able to run until 6am.

 

Cannot confirm that. Starting a game with "Daylight 12 hours" lets me spawn in darkness with dawn slightly visible. But still night-sounds. At 10 a.m. game plays the sound of awakening day and its gets all bright. But... thats is not the topic in this thread...

Edited January 14 by Kandesbunzler (see edit history)

[Arez]

9 minutes ago, Kandesbunzler said:

At 10 a.m. game plays the sound of awakening day and its gets all bright.

Maybe that's it too. I'd have to check again, but I'm way more concerned with it getting darker earlier than brighter later. And getting bright by 10am is too late. 

Also I don't want to change the zombie behavior. I just want to change the light.

[FinkPloyd]

8 hours ago, theFlu said:

Puddle Water should not be drinkable AND unusable; don't try to fix a convoluted crafting system by breaking from real world logic just to rate limit something silly.

 

I assume that when the story behind 7D2D's zombie infection is released it would explain why you can't drink 'puddle water', even after boiling (ie there is a chemical contaminant that is heat stable).

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, FinkPloyd said:

it would explain why you can't drink 'puddle water',

Well, it Could. But for now it doesn't, and the water is still drinkable with no sign of infection, only a risk of dysentery. This is why I phrased it "drinkable AND unusable", you can drink it, just not make glue out of it... but why? The other way around might be easier to explain..

 

And even if a lore reason would be given, distillation is still a thing IRL. Getting pathogens to evaporate along with water and survive the process... really? Even "Dew" is drinkable and that is just evaporated and condensed puddle water anyway.

[FramFramson]

Alternate option, a mod I made: https://7daystodiemods.com/bang-for-your-bucket-an-alternate-early-game-water-system/

 

I didn't like the loss of environmental water sources, but I honestly did not miss jar management, so I came up with this as a compromise.

[Ramethzer0]

12 hours ago, drgnkght said:

Personally, I think the Fun Pimps don't care about the jars at all. Jars aren't, and never were, the problem the Fun Pimps were trying to solve. In my opinion, the thing the Fun Pimps were trying to remove was access to environmental water. Environmental water isn't RNG/progression-gated. It's always there and available. So they couldn't restrict its availability in order to extend/balance the game. Removing the players' ability to collect environmental water as previously implemented required removing the glass jars so they're gone. I liked the jars as well, but asking for them to be restored is pointless. It would break the artificial scarcity they're attempting to enforce. (I think this is why they don't seem care about the water filter mod. You can't use it for crafting.)

 

 

There is no artificial scarcity.  Water is not rare, and easy to loot if you know what to look for.  It's been discussed at length in multiple threads that seem to die off after that information gets shared.

 

Also, you're not meant to use the water filter mod for crafting.  I don't think you understand what that would require to implement.

Edited January 15 by Ramethzer0
Clarification (see edit history)

[FramFramson]

6 minutes ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Also, you're not meant to use the water filter mod for crafting.  I don't think you understand what that would require coding wise.

 

You could make it scrappable for a water filter and that wouldn't break anything.

[Ramethzer0]

14 minutes ago, FramFramson said:

 

You could make it scrappable for a water filter and that wouldn't break anything.

 

That's not what I meant and I edited my post for clarification.   What I mean is, that it would take a lot of time and effort to implement from start to finish.   Creating anything new or adapting anything old has the chance to break something in the process.

Edited January 15 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

13 hours ago, theFlu said:

They also wanted to limit the amount of explosives people can craft early... as the only non-gunpowder ingredient to limit for exploding arrows is duct tape, they wanted to limit That. Just .. why? Make a new form of "gunpowder", "High Explosives" and make it a slow / expensive craft in the chem station. Or something, whatever. Whatever else!

 

No. Pipe bombs are really easy to make  pretty early in game and are very effective, it´s not a problem at all to get enough of them to do a pipe bomb only horde night on day 7. If making explosives harder was the reason then TFP failed hardcore here. You can still use them for the day 28 horde, no problem at all.

 

At the point where you can make the more advanced explosives, you should easily have enough water for duct tape.

Edited January 15 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[theFlu]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

No. Pipe bombs are really easy to make  pretty early in game and are very effective, it´s not a problem at all

I agree. But I do seem to remember "too easy crafting of explosive arrows" being one of the reasons given for the change. It may have not been an actual reason though, it's not like TFP have explained it detail here and none of us have been at the design tables...

 

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

If making explosives harder was the reason then TFP failed hardcore here.

I tend to agree even without the IF  

 

5 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

There is no artificial scarcity. 

I'd say this is basically the definition of artificial scarcity; which is a bit of a feat, usually it requires laws to stop people gathering their own lake water, but here it was managed via breaking physics already. Nestle is jelly right now.

[meganoth]

52 minutes ago, theFlu said:

I agree. But I do seem to remember "too easy crafting of explosive arrows" being one of the reasons given for the change. It may have not been an actual reason though, it's not like TFP have explained it detail here and none of us have been at the design tables...

 

I remember the glue production issue starting with a player who used explosive arrows as his main weapon on horde night asking how or if he can get enough glue for that. I don't remember TFP ever stating this as a reason, I don't even remember them ever stating that they wanted to limit glue production any further, though I could be wrong on that. In fact glue production is already "limited" through the ingredient bones and could simply be further limited by increasing the number needed for glue or having less bones to find in the world.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by meganoth (see edit history)

[theFlu]

 

 

" 2.) With unlimited duct tape people could craft OP quantities of things early game. Now its a choice, do use my water to craft duct tape, or do I drink it. "

I may be off about it being about explosives, but limiting glue production was absolutely stated as a reason.

[meganoth]

10 minutes ago, theFlu said:

 

 

" 2.) With unlimited duct tape people could craft OP quantities of things early game. Now its a choice, do use my water to craft duct tape, or do I drink it. "

I may be off about it being about explosives, but limiting glue production was absolutely stated as a reason.

 

Thanks for the correction. So they wanted to limit glue production and maybe/probably explosives was what they had in mind with OP quantities of things.

 

If you take coop multiplayer in account then OP quantities could refer to anything that is needed. If one of the players is able to craft a wooden bow then with almost unlimited glue all players can be decked out with a bow. Same with repair kits or full sets of armor or pocket mods

 

Though anything is already limited by other ingredients as well, gun powder, cloth,  mechanical parts, forged iron, sewing kits. So possibly Madmole wasn't even even refering to specific things but just generally, that their production meant to be limited by glue wasn't limited really and they wanted another angle.

 

But, just to be clear, since he said early game and you definitely can't produce explosive arrows early game the explosive arrows can't really have been meant by him.

 

 

 

[theFlu]

6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

If one of the players is able to craft a wooden bow then with almost unlimited glue all players can be decked out with a bow.

Indeed; which relates to the reason why I brought up explosives at all. If crafting multiple wooden bows is an issue, limit the availability of bow parts. Fix the crafting logically, instead of making everything use rolls upon of rolls of duct tape held together by duct tape and waterproofed by duct tape. It's a cute post-apocalyptic joke, but please don't take it far enough to have to disable lakes to maintain it ... 😛

[Ramethzer0]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

I'd say this is basically the definition of artificial scarcity; which is a bit of a feat, usually it requires laws to stop people gathering their own lake water, but here it was managed via breaking physics already. Nestle is jelly right now.

 

There is plenty of water out there to be looted.   Considering that and my own experience at luck at knowing where to look, I find it difficult to entertain those complaints anymore.   The only way I've been able to replicate this issue is to either become a victim of poor RNG, trim my loot settings to the point of nothing, or simply refuse to loot the common places where I know water to be found.

 

I dont really wanna come off as being this cynical, but I have no other reasons to believe it is anything but a player problem.

Edited January 15 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)