Murky Water

[Old Crow]

What's the point of this item anymore? It's not used in any recipes anymore. If the dew collectors produced murky water (which would actually make sense), and it was still required for glue, sure. But why is it still in the game if it has no use other than to boil? Doesn't really fix the "thirst should be hard" problem.

 

Here's an idea to add a little realism and perhaps some engagement: Bring back glass jars.

 

Now hear me out. Remove the ability to craft them, and make it so you can only acquire a glass jar for drinks by finding full drinks (including murky water) and then drink them. Murky water could then only be drank, boiled, or used for certain non-food recipes. Dew collectors would produce murky water. Need to make a drink or stew? Boil that stuff. No finding boiled water, but you can find already made drinks (red tea, etc).

 

Probably not the best idea, but it's something.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I am more for bringing them back, but you need a forge and an anvil and you don´t get them back when drinking and you can´t find the empty ones in loot nor can you buy them. Anvil needs to be set to not beeing craftable for a while, i don´t know, like 30 magazines or something also no anvil at the trader until a certain trader stage. Level cap would be better for limiting this (and a lot of other stuff) as the current system is highly abusable with fergettin elixir and hardcore questing for better trader stage.

 

Or any other solution that isn´t the dew collector tbh. Be it with or without glass jars. I don´t care about them, i just want the current system gone. I don´t care if we suffer from thirst the whole first week. Just remove that riddiculous system.

Edited October 19, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[manOyore]

I wish the glue recipe still used murky water. Why would you need to use purified water for glue? I'm not going to drink glue.

 

I had to boil 75 murky waters to make enough glue for duct tape so I could craft my level 5 drone. That took forever, over an hour real time. Crafting the 75 duct tape was fairly quick though once I had the purified water.

 

I'm not using traders on my current playthrough so I don't have any dew collectors to supplement my water supply. So the difficulty of obtaining that much purified water is all my fault, not the games.

 

If you got murky water from dew collectors that would negate the purpose of the water filter used to craft the dew collector so I don't think that would work Old Crow but I get where you are coming from.

 

If they do bring back jars, it would be best if you didn't find empty jars in loot. I always seemed to accumulate 4-5 full stacks of empty jars since I'm such a pack rat.

[Maharin]

Well, it's much harder to figure out if someone back-washed the murky water...

[pApA^LeGBa]

8 hours ago, manOyore said:

I'm not using traders on my current playthrough so I don't have any dew collectors to supplement my water supply. So the difficulty of obtaining that much purified water is all my fault, not the games.

 

Actually it is the games fault for having a game mechanic that kinda forces you to use the trader. Impossible in MP Coop to play without dew collectors, you have to use the trader.

[Pernicious]

Just thinking this one through... most games you can play without a trader, but it's much harder. I'm giving 7d2d a rest at the moment and playing Starfield. Could I play without a trader? Yes, but it'd be much harder. Diabo 4. Also yes, but if you broaden traders to include all craftsmen, it again would be much harder.

 

I've had one playthrough in 7d2d where I didn't get a water filter until day 20 somethingish, when I needed bulk duct tape. Could I have kept playing without it? Also yes, but like Starfield and D4, it's also harder.

 

I'm not convinced that denying yourself a convenience that was placed there to make the game balanced making it harder, means it's "the game's fault". Is it just because we are meant to be lone survivors (ignoring the context of an exclusive community out there that seems to have it sorted but wants us to prove ourselves before we get to join) that traders break "immersion"? Or is it trader = too easy, but surprise surprise, no trader = too hard? 

 

Traders are a core feature and have been for many versions. TFP have to balance assuming you use them, and I think they've done it well enough that you can play without them if you want... but don't cry if it's too hard without them.

[Gamida]

8 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Actually it is the games fault for having a game mechanic that kinda forces you to use the trader. Impossible in MP Coop to play without dew collectors, you have to use the trader.

 

I thought it was mentioned sometime ago that you could have a possible chance to get a filter in a broken dew collector in the world? Maybe that was in some mod. Was long ago so I don't remember.

[pApA^LeGBa]

1 hour ago, Gamida said:

 

I thought it was mentioned sometime ago that you could have a possible chance to get a filter in a broken dew collector in the world? Maybe that was in some mod. Was long ago so I don't remember.

 

Lootable dew collectors are kinda rare to beginn with. Haven´t seen a single filter in them so far.

[Vaeliorin]

48 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Lootable dew collectors are kinda rare to beginn with. Haven´t seen a single filter in them so far.

Yep, there's maybe 6 POIs in the entire game with lootable dew collectors and they have something like a .25% chance to drop a filter.  Basically, it's nigh impossible to get them without the trader (or a mod that lets you craft them.)

[FranticDan]

11 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Yep, there's maybe 6 POIs in the entire game with lootable dew collectors and they have something like a .25% chance to drop a filter.  Basically, it's nigh impossible to get them without the trader (or a mod that lets you craft them.)

yeah, 5% of a 5% chance. I remember a QA tester of a Dev responding to me and said yeah filters can be found in loot, I was expecting to be able to find them rarely in working stiff shipping crates and T4/T5 loot chests. But no, they essentially, for all intends and purposes, don't exist in loot at all.
I'm one of those players that prefers removing traders from spawning, and yeah it's possible to survive on looting murky water. But knowing that I'll never be able to make a dew collector without cheating is a bit of a downer.

On the plus side though, Once you read 26 cooking magazines, you unlock yucca smoothie, so unlimited hydration and all water found can then be used for glue instead of drinking.

[RStarphoenix]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:54 AM, Old Crow said:

Here's an idea to add a little realism and perhaps some engagement: Bring back glass jars.

Believe it or not, glass jars and empty cans were a resource hit. Having the game keep track of those thousands of extra bits of data hurts. While people miss the jars the definitely should remain a thing of the past.

But the idea of doing more with murky water I agree on, along with several other items that are one-off uses.

Murky water should still be a component of crafting somehow, there are things in this game it would make sense to use in. Glue is still a good choice.

 

22 hours ago, Gamida said:

 

I thought it was mentioned sometime ago that you could have a possible chance to get a filter in a broken dew collector in the world? Maybe that was in some mod. Was long ago so I don't remember.

From doing a test and teleporting to every POI that I found had a dew collector that was salvageable, you can get a filter but you do need some lucky looter + eye candy + lucky goggles. I did it 10 times as a level 1 character & 10 times w/ max perks + boosts (not a good enough sampling for high level accuracy but it at least gave me a baseline); without perks/bonuses i was averaging about 23 broken dew collectors to 1 filter; with max lucky looter + all available perk eq/candies I was able to see 1 filter after every 14-ish broken dew collectors.

 

20 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Yep, there's maybe 6 POIs in the entire game with lootable dew collectors and they have something like a .25% chance to drop a filter.  Basically, it's nigh impossible to get them without the trader (or a mod that lets you craft them.)

not impossible but exceedingly tedious from me running it the combined 20 times

Edited October 22, 2023 by RStarphoenix (see edit history)

[Ramethzer0]

On 10/19/2023 at 2:54 AM, Old Crow said:

What's the point of this item anymore? It's not used in any recipes anymore.

*cold soulless stare*  😐

 

You can boil them in the cooking fire.

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, Ramethzer0 said:

*cold soulless stare*  😐

 

You can boil them in the cooking fire.

 

Yeah... and that's it. It has no other use.

[Ramethzer0]

9 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

Yeah... and that's it. It has no other use.

 

I treat it like mineral ores.   You mine the ore, and put it into the forge to make an ingot.  That ingot goes into several other recipes.   The same is said for murky water.   I'm all for coming up with new idea for things like that, but I'm really past the discussion where this suddenly becomes another argument to bring jars back.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)