removing traders from the world

[Dark Wun]

There seems to be a lot of agreement in the community that traders and especially trader quests add an imbalance to the game, especially early game.

 

Is there currently a way to remove them from the world completely?

 

If so, are you allowed to tell me how to do it? I've been thinking that playing a game with traders removed (and maybe a couple other settings softened to counter balance) could make for a challenging and/or interesting play-through.

[RipClaw]

You need to remove the traders from rwgmixer.xml and then generate a map without traders. Or you just ignore the fact that the traders exist.

Without a trader you will have difficulties to get a water filter for a dew collector. Players who play without a trader usually mod a recipe into the game or they mod the loot table.
 

By the way, there is no consensus on this at all. Most players out there don't care what a few diehard players think. If they see a better weapon or tool at the trader they just buy it and if they get something better as a reward they are happy about it.
 

[métaphore]

4 hours ago, Dark Wun said:

There seems to be a lot of agreement in the community that traders and especially trader quests add an imbalance to the game, especially early game.

 

Is there currently a way to remove them from the world completely?

 

If so, are you allowed to tell me how to do it? I've been thinking that playing a game with traders removed (and maybe a couple other settings softened to counter balance) could make for a challenging and/or interesting play-through.

 

Here is what I'm doing to remove all traders from the map (a safe method, without altering any default file):

 

1. Make a new RWG and remember how the game named it (ie. my last world was named "Mukakegu Mountains")

 

2. Close the game and open the newly created folder where this new custom world was saved:

- on my system, the path to this new "Mukakegu Mountains" folder would be

----------- C:\Users\metaphore\AppData\Roaming\7DaysToDie\GeneratedWorlds\Mukakegu Mountains

 

3. With Notepad, open the file named "prefabs.xml" and search for "trader_" (without quotes).

This is what you are looking for, disregarding the trader's name, compound position and rotation ;

  <decoration type="model" name="trader_jen" position="278,73,-244" rotation="3" />

 

4. simply delete all the lines matching "trader_xxx" until the search will return a no match.

 

Alternatively, you can also replace each Trader POI with another POI name:

ie. turning "trader_jen" into a "Crack a Book" POI:

  <decoration type="model" name="trader_jen" position="278,73,-244" rotation="3" />

would become:

  <decoration type="model" name="store_book_01" position="278,73,-244" rotation="3" />

 

5. save prefabs.xml where it was.

 

it's safe as you can manually delete those user GeneratedWorlds with their associated folder stored in the "Saves" folder, which is created once you'll start a new game in this world; (ie. there is another "Mukakegu Mountains" folder in the "Saves" folder containing my curent game data)

[Dark Wun]

8 hours ago, RipClaw said:

You need to remove the traders from rwgmixer.xml and then generate a map without traders

Have you tested this to see if it still works? I followed similar instructions from a Reddit post last year and it didn't seem to work.

 

3 hours ago, métaphore said:

Here is what I'm doing to remove all traders from the map (a safe method, without altering any default file):

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for, I'll give this a try. CHeers.

[RipClaw]

1 minute ago, Dark Wun said:

Have you tested this to see if it still works? I followed similar instructions from a Reddit post last year and it didn't seem to work.

In fact, I haven't tested this because I have no access to my home computer at the moment. I know it worked like this in previous alphas, but that may have changed.

 

 

[Dark Wun]

8 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Without a trader you will have difficulties to get a water filter for a dew collector.

 

Thanks, good point. I figure with a second helm in my pack that has the filter mod, thirst is taken care of from sipping from water sources. I'm finding there's enough murky water in toilets, etc. to get a decent jar of water supply. I was going to ask bout stuff like this next, is there any other major consequence to not having a trader? I can't really think of any.

[RipClaw]

10 minutes ago, Dark Wun said:

I was going to ask bout stuff like this next, is there any other major consequence to not having a trader? I can't really think of any.

I don't know of any other major disadvantages. Anything else can be found. The water filter can theoretically be found in broken dew collectors but in 100 days I have not found a single water filter.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[AtomicUs5000]

11 minutes ago, Dark Wun said:

I was going to ask bout stuff like this next, is there any other major consequence to not having a trader? I can't really think of any.

 
Solar banks and solar cells, I think. Other than that, you might fall victim to early game antibiotics shortage.

[Dark Wun]

4 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Solar banks and solar cells

 

Ah yes, these are trader exclusive. Not really game-breaking I suppose, I will just have to get more gas and gas generators and deal with the annoyance of keeping them going.

 

I think some of the niche objects/shapes can't be found in loot or crafted and are only available at traders.

[Riamus]

Yeah, there are decorations that can't be crafted but are sold by the traders.  Nothing have breaking though.  The filter is really the only thing that could be a problem because the drop rate from broken dew collectors is so low.  Solar isn't necessary even if it is nice and decorations are just decorations. 😀

[Greymantle]

Here you go for those looking for another way to get a water filter.  This mod lets you craft them.  https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/3134

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Greymantle (see edit history)

[Archael]

If there is no consensus over traders and trader quests. Then Devs should put a checkbox in map generation or game options to enable/disable traders.
And if traders are disabled, then some things like water filters and solar panels and solar banks, should be lootable/craftable (but because crafting is loot dependant then lootable either way).

[BFT2020]

7 hours ago, Archael said:

If there is no consensus over traders and trader quests. Then Devs should put a checkbox in map generation or game options to enable/disable traders.
And if traders are disabled, then some things like water filters and solar panels and solar banks, should be lootable/craftable (but because crafting is loot dependant then lootable either way).

 

Why should the developers do such a thing?  If the developers want a game with traders and trader quests, then they are not obligated to add an option.  They can if they want, but there is no requirement for them to do so, especially if modders can do the same thing.

 

To add to this, I don't think it is possible today to do what you are suggesting.  I don't think the game / code is setup to where you can simply select an option (disable traders) and it changes the code in the loot / recipe files to now allow those items to be crafted or looted.  I could be wrong, but I think that would take additional work that probably won't be on their priority list to do prior to final release.

 

They do have options to change loot respawn period and loot quantities, but those things are already baked into the code today.

Edited July 23, 2023 by BFT2020 (see edit history)

[métaphore]

On 7/21/2023 at 4:49 PM, Dark Wun said:

 

Thanks, good point. I figure with a second helm in my pack that has the filter mod, thirst is taken care of from sipping from water sources. I'm finding there's enough murky water in toilets, etc. to get a decent jar of water supply. I was going to ask bout stuff like this next, is there any other major consequence to not having a trader? I can't really think of any.

 

At start, head to the closest City and you won't need to sipp water from the natural sources ever. Also, neither does one need a Dew Collector or a Helmet Water Filter mod to survive unless playing in the wilderness. For a no trader game, it's just a cooking pot that is mandatory as early as possible. You'll find one (or several) easily in every commercial area where Foodtrucks are quite common. The one which is open has no zombie inside and a cooking pot ready to grab and use. In fact, one can list all POI having such an apparent cooking pot, as it's not random.

 

Other stuff only sold by the Traders are not critical items as other items can fulfill what they do. Maybe the "Fergetting Elixir" used to respec your points isn't lootable or very very rare, but one can pass on that feature and other similar.

 

If you allow yourself to use those vending machines (I do not), I've noticed that I had looted over 30K Dukes by day 50 or so, mostly thru Treasure maps boxes (usefull to do for ammo, which is not so abundant in loot). So, after a certain point, you'll still be able to get some candy or anything they sale as one can loot more than enough brass without smelting Dukes.

 

The only thing really frustrating is that, after a certain game stage, you won't get any more scrap armor, iron armor, iron tools or smeltable weapons for iron but only stuff that will break into useless steel parts (while also struggling to make a lot of steel at the same time). This should be modded too as it's the one thing that is killing any fun in the late game for myself.

[Dark Wun]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:54 AM, métaphore said:

3. With Notepad, open the file named "prefabs.xml" and search for "trader_" (without quotes).

This is what you are looking for, disregarding the trader's name, compound position and rotation ;

  <decoration type="model" name="trader_jen" position="278,73,-244" rotation="3" />

 

4. simply delete all the lines matching "trader_xxx" until the search will return a no match.

 

This is all working flawlessly so far. You can even do the gathering tutorial at the beginning and it doesn't crash the game when it tries to refer the player to the first trader after completing this tutorial - you just abandon that quest. You get the 4 skill points and all. I was quite impressed.

 

16 hours ago, Archael said:

If there is no consensus over traders and trader quests. Then Devs should put a checkbox in map generation or game options to enable/disable traders.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking myself and you beat me to posting it. I would also like it if vending machines could be toggled on/off at world creation, but at least those can be destroyed.

[Archael]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:55 PM, BFT2020 said:

 

Why should the developers do such a thing?  If the developers want a game with traders and trader quests, then they are not obligated to add an option.  They can if they want, but there is no requirement for them to do so, especially if modders can do the same thing.

 

To add to this, I don't think it is possible today to do what you are suggesting.  I don't think the game / code is setup to where you can simply select an option (disable traders) and it changes the code in the loot / recipe files to now allow those items to be crafted or looted.  I could be wrong, but I think that would take additional work that probably won't be on their priority list to do prior to final release.

 

They do have options to change loot respawn period and loot quantities, but those things are already baked into the code today.

Because traders breaks the  game and its original design. Lot of people (myself included) bought this game as sandbox survival in apocalypse, and traders with quests breaks this. Devs should either go back to original design, refund the game for people who are upset with current approach, or give a choice.
The last option is particulary easy to do.

[cammel]

2 hours ago, Archael said:

Because traders breaks the  game and its original design. Lot of people (myself included) bought this game as sandbox survival in apocalypse, and traders with quests breaks this. Devs should either go back to original design, refund the game for people who are upset with current approach, or give a choice.
The last option is particulary easy to do.

You bought into an early access game that was subject to change as it was developed at your own risk. The Devs are following their original design. Just because you bought it before traders were implemented, does not mean they were not part of the original design.

[Archael]

9 hours ago, cammel said:

You bought into an early access game that was subject to change as it was developed at your own risk. The Devs are following their original design. Just because you bought it before traders were implemented, does not mean they were not part of the original design.

It really depends on country laws.
In here, where i am. If any customer bought something due to advertisement (great sign just belowe game name can be called ad) and if product do not match this ad, the company is obligate to refund the product. And even if company has other rules and politics (like the line that product may change, or no refunds after purchase), the country law is above it, making those rules non-binding. I may be a minority, and i dont think anyone would like to fight for those few $. But if many players would wanted they refunds, there would be a problem.
So in short - if im unhappy with developper direction of the game and if this direction is different of what game was telling at the time i bought it - i have right for the refund. I will wait untill gold and i hope game will be NOT a looter shooter, and it will be really open world apocalypse, survival, crafting, horde defence.

[meganoth]

14 hours ago, Archael said:

It really depends on country laws.
In here, where i am. If any customer bought something due to advertisement (great sign just belowe game name can be called ad) and if product do not match this ad, the company is obligate to refund the product. And even if company has other rules and politics (like the line that product may change, or no refunds after purchase), the country law is above it, making those rules non-binding. I may be a minority, and i dont think anyone would like to fight for those few $. But if many players would wanted they refunds, there would be a problem.
So in short - if im unhappy with developper direction of the game and if this direction is different of what game was telling at the time i bought it - i have right for the refund. I will wait untill gold and i hope game will be NOT a looter shooter, and it will be really open world apocalypse, survival, crafting, horde defence.

 

You are correct about most of the legalities, but you will have a very hard time proving that 7D2D is not open world apocalypse, survival, crafting and horde defence in a court, especially because these terms are not clearly defined and have a different meaning for everyone. I can point to elements in the game that fulfill all these claims.

 

For example: Try to define "Sandbox". For some players only creative mode would be a true sandbox, while others would call any game sandbox that can be played without a specific endgoal in mind. Now try to explain to a judge that your definition of sandbox is right and you want to give back a game because it doesn't fullfill your definition.

 

Also if the terms of EA are accepted by the court then you don't have the final product in hand. And only the final product has to have all these elements (You could try to fight this too, but now you'll have steams best lawyers on the other side to fight as well). If your opinion were correct then you could give back any unfinished EA game simply because it isn't finished and parts are missing. 7D2D for example simply because bandits are missing and that was an advertised part of the game. Read steams EULA of EA games, there surely is some provision that you can not assume much about the game you are playing while it is developed, not even that it runs all the time.

 

Now I have no doubt that you simply could get the game returned by just making yourself a nuisance that is more worth than the price of the game (or the risk of going to court that is always there) 😉

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[paulj_3]

Thank you for saying this Meganoth: I had written much the same, including quoting from the various explanatory websites of both Steam and TFP: - all of which are perfectly obvious or stated in many different ways in all of their web media: in the end I simply ran out of patience - as per your last line, the "nuisance" and value of the effort in the post just being not worth my time. I deleted it. 
Triviality is the hallmark of the bureaucrat, and life is far too short.   

Edited July 29, 2023 by paulj_3 (see edit history)

[Dark Wun]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:54 AM, métaphore said:

3. With Notepad, open the file named "prefabs.xml" and search for "trader_" (without quotes).

This is what you are looking for, disregarding the trader's name, compound position and rotation ;

  <decoration type="model" name="trader_jen" position="278,73,-244" rotation="3" />

 

Do you have a similar method for removing the vending machines as well? Is there an xml file that contains all the /objects that spawn and you can then delete them in a similar fashion?

[BFT2020]

45 minutes ago, Dark Wun said:

 

Do you have a similar method for removing the vending machines as well? Is there an xml file that contains all the /objects that spawn and you can then delete them in a similar fashion?

 

You would need to remove them from all POIs.

 

Easiest thing to do (if removing them as a benefit to the player) is just to remove the trader groups for them in the trader file.

<!-- *** POI Drink Vending Machines ID:4 -->
    <trader_info id="4" reset_interval="1" override_buy_markup="3" allow_sell="false" >
        <trader_items>
            <item group="drinkVending" count="4,8"/>
            <item group="drinkSpecialVending" count="4,8"/>
        </trader_items>
    </trader_info>

<!-- *** POI Food/Candy Vending Machines ID:10 -->
    <trader_info id="10" reset_interval="1" override_buy_markup="3" allow_sell="false" >
        <trader_items>
            <item group="foodVending" count="4,8"/>
            <item group="foodCandy" count="4,8"/>
        </trader_items>
    </trader_info>

 

You can delete the vending machines (they are in the blocks.xml file) but the POIs are still going to try to call them and you will get at least warnings, possibly errors for any POIs that have them.  Removing the trader groups to make them non-beneficial would probably be the easiest thing to do.

Edited July 30, 2023 by BFT2020 (see edit history)

[Dark Wun]

53 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

You can delete the vending machines (they are in the blocks.xml file) but the POIs are still going to try to call them and you will get at least warnings, possibly errors for any POIs that have them.  Removing the trader groups to make them non-beneficial would probably be the easiest thing to do.

very cool , thanks.

 

Is this something I can do in a current saved game or do I have to regen world for this to take effect?

[Sqeegie]

Instead of permanently removing blocks/POIs or dealing with regenerating the world, I would propose a relatively simpler approach by just setting traders closed and preventing them from opening again. This would be done by creating a C# mod for the server (or client for singleplayer) by using Harmony to detour TraderArea.SetClosed(World _world, bool _bClosed, bool playSound = false) method and changing the passed _bClosed argument to always be true.

 

PoC:

Spoiler

using HarmonyLib;
using System.Reflection;

/* .NET Framework 4.5
 * 
 * References:
 *  - 0Harmony.dll
 *  - Assembly-CSharp.dll
 *  - LogLibrary.dll
 */

public class PeskyTrader : IModApi
{
    public void InitMod(Mod _modInstance)
    {
        Harmony harmony = new Harmony(base.GetType().ToString());
        harmony.PatchAll(Assembly.GetExecutingAssembly());

        Log.Out("[MODS] [PeskyTrader] Loaded!");
    }
}

[HarmonyPatch(typeof(TraderArea), "SetClosed")]
class TraderAreaPatch
{
    static void Prefix(World _world, ref bool _bClosed, bool playSound = false)
    {
        _bClosed = true;
    }
}

 

 

Compiled version (A21): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fgp27a_DrV1HU-7NTkYaKaS_lNEBNQts (extract and plop into the mods folder).

[Dark Wun]

On 7/28/2023 at 2:55 AM, meganoth said:

You are correct about most of the legalities, but you will have a very hard time proving that 7D2D is not open world apocalypse, survival, crafting and horde defence in a court

 

There are obviously some people who feel more strongly about this than I do, which is why I think the devs should incorporate some of settings that allow the player to toggle traders and/or vending machines off. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why many and maybe a greater majority like the aggressive , time-pressured tower defense aspect of the game; that's the type of game that appeals to the crowds - for those that want to search out and join servers with the server browser and play a game where progression can take place in a couple of real life hours or days. Arguably, that type of game sells , appeals to the PUG crowds, makes more $$ and devs need income like the rest of us. I get it. But with a few lines of code, I'm sure, they can incorporate a trader/vendor on/off toggle in the game settings and poof, people that enjoy the survival aspect of the game can play a game more customized to their play style, slower, more methodical, exploratory and with real life friends and family -not feel like they are under the gun and stressed out.