The proposal for the game after A21, I hope someone (developers) is interested

[XAH]

I used a translator.

To begin with, I love this game and would like it to get even better. In this discussion, I do not want to offend anyone and I do not intend to impose my opinion, because my opinion is not important to anyone.
Many thanks to the developers for doing a great job both in A21 and in the whole game as a whole. But:
Despite the fact that the A21 brought a lot of improvements and innovations, the mechanics with magazines in my opinion turned out to be quite useless. I will explain why on my gaming experience. For example, while I was collecting magazines, which I only had enough for a level 4 pipe shotgun, I was already able to purchase a level 5 automatic shotgun from a dealer. In this regard, further collecting magazines on shotguns did not make any sense to me, except collecting. The situation is the same with many other magazines. Pistols, submachine guns, tools, I found or bought much better quality than I could craft at the time of their receipt (except for magazines on crafting workstations). In this regard, all these hundreds of magazines have ceased to have any value, because the skills of barter and adventurer decide everything.
Someone will say that I just had a low skill of a certain weapon, but no, the skill of shotguns was 4/5, but buying a good quality shotgun was much faster and easier than collecting the missing 50 magazines.
The only magazines that were useful were for crafting workstations and crafting food, of which an incredibly large number fell out even without the skill.
As they say, if you criticize, offer.
In many games I have met a system of development, when the skill that you use improves. For example, if you kill with a pistol, then the pistol is pumped, if you cook, then cooking, mining ore is a mining skill.
It would be logical enough to first kill zombies with a pipe shotgun, gain experience before picking up an automatic shotgun. And if the player receives a good weapon before obtaining the corresponding skill, then debuff can act on this weapon in the form of increased recoil and high scatter, which would be logical.
I hope the developers will see this message. In any case, the game is yours and it's up to you to decide what to do with it. 
Thanks for attention.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Prepare to be merged with the other discussion about exactly what you said.

 

But yes, traders need a nerf of crafting needs a buff. I played with the spear twice now. Never crafted more than a stone spear. Both times i got the iron spear and the steel spear way before i could craft it myself. Either as a reward or i bought it.

 

And what you describe is learning by doing. We had that in this game until A17. And it won´t come back. TFP made this very clear.

Edited July 5, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[warmer]

What they could do is tie being able to repair an item to being able to craft it at lvl 1. The way that Rust does repair is my fav. it makes perfect game sense. you can not repair something you don't know how to craft. how could you possibly know how to?

 

this would still allow you to buy the item above your crafting skill, but you wouldn't be able to repair it yet. that to me feels like a very good trade off that is also realistic.

Edited July 5, 2023 by warmer (see edit history)

[XAH]

9 minutes ago, warmer said:

What they could do is tie being able to repair an item to being able to craft is at lvl 1. The way that Rust does repair is my fav. it makes perfect game sense. you can not repair something you don't know how to craft. how could you possibly know how to?

 

this would still allow you to buy the item above your crafting skill, but you wouldn't be able to repair it yet. that to me feels like a very good trade off that is also realistic.

Yes, I really like your idea. In this case, everything makes sense, it would even stimulate the collection of the same magazines in order to finally take that treasured level 6 hatchet that has been gathering dust in the vault for a long time.

[theFlu]

30 minutes ago, warmer said:

you can not repair something you don't know how to craft. how could you possibly know how to?

I can't make a plastic casing for a coffee filter, but I can duct tape the old one together by looking at where the crack is and applying tape. The first few pots might have a funky taste, but I'm sure it'll pass ...

 

The idea isn't bad for a game though!

[Skaarphy]

One solution could be to make high-tier, high-end items excessively expensive. 200.000 Dukes for your tier 5 automatic shotgun, and you'll think twice about purchasing it, even if you have that kind of money. 

That way magazines and crafting still have value and at the same time traders don't need to be nerfed in that they're selling only junk.   

Edited July 5, 2023 by Skaarphy
Typos (see edit history)

[OgreSlayeR]

IMO the best weapons should be expensive and sold only by Hugh (he is the weapons guy after all..)and they should be tied to a much later game stage (also Daring Adventurer needs a complete rework) .  You should never be able to get Q6 gear from any traders be it quest reward or from their inventory. They also should only offer weapon/tool parts as a reward.

 

I might even go as far to say Hugh should be the only trader you can buy weapons with (it is his specialty), but the main problem with that is it might add too much world RNG and could be annoying being stuck with someone like Rekt as your starting trader. This could be too imbalanced, but something to consider and at the very least my other ideas at the top could work well IMO.

 

At the end of the day I believe crafting and looting is definitely getting there and getting close to being balanced but the problem is the traders crap all over it and screw up the whole progression. If you aren't constantly questing and abusing the trader you aren't playing the game efficiently. The game still feels like 7 Days to Trade like in A20. Hopefully it gets some more balance passes in this Alpha. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by OgreSlayeR (see edit history)

[Darklegend222]

I can only craft a tier 3 iron sledgehammer, but I got a tier 4 steel sledgehammer from trader Jen as a reward. There's very little reason to collect magazines for your weapon except early game if you're getting boned on RNG. Not to mention, the fact you can't event make Q6 items, only up to Q5. So your going to loot the best items anyway which makes crafting tools/armor/weapons entirely obsolete.

 

The cooking, electrical, trap, and wiring books make sense to continue gathering as they're always going to be needed. You do NOT want to have to rely on a trader selling you the blade traps you need for your horde base, or for selling you the high quality food when your hungry. Well... Maybe you could get away with not cooking since tier 1 buried supplies are guaranteed to offer you the higher quality foods anyway.

[Razorpony]

I think a simple solution (in theory, not sure about coding) would be to allow for a chance to damage the item if you try to repair it without the proper knowledge. It may work or you may have a chance to lose a tier level or durability or something. Blue auto shotty is almost broken. Do you try to fix it and risk turning it into a green or orange shotty? Once you read enough and have the proper repair level this is no longer an issue. 

[fragtzack]

Tis a balance issue, not a problem with magazines mechanic. 

[HolyDemonic]

1 hour ago, Razorpony said:

I think a simple solution (in theory, not sure about coding) would be to allow for a chance to damage the item if you try to repair it without the proper knowledge. It may work or you may have a chance to lose a tier level or durability or something. Blue auto shotty is almost broken. Do you try to fix it and risk turning it into a green or orange shotty? Once you read enough and have the proper repair level this is no longer an issue. 

Or repairing weapons, tools (not vehicles) would lower the durability of said item, once durability is 0, item is broken and can not be repaired, (can still salvage) this would make crafting more lucrative. it would also help with traders offering higher tier items than you can craft, you buy it, repair it  x times and it breaks, you have to hope they offer you and better item than you can craft or crat the ones you can. (this would give more incentive to loot weapon/tool parts as well).

Eg - in my game im using knuckles. I can craft up to iron tier 3, but i got steel knuckle parts and already got steel knuckles tier4, no point in me looting more steel knuckle parts or the knuckle books anymore, with this change I would need to continue to find parts and books.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by HolyDemonic (see edit history)

[Riamus]

9 hours ago, warmer said:

you can not repair something you don't know how to craft. how could you possibly know how to?

I can repair various things on a car but I can't craft a car or the parts for the car.  Repairing is far easier than crafting.  Fine for a game but it does break playstyles where people aren't interested in crafting and so don't bother with the magazines other than to sell them and I really don't see much real benefit from that.  Balancing would be a better solution, I think.

 

1 hour ago, HolyDemonic said:

Or repairing weapons, tools (not vehicles) would lower the durability of said item, once durability is 0, item is broken and can not be repaired, (can still salvage) this would make crafting more lucrative. it would also help with traders offering higher tier items than you can craft, you buy it, repair it  x times and it breaks, you have to hope they offer you and better item than you can craft or crat the ones you can. (this would give more incentive to loot weapon/tool parts as well).

Eg - in my game im using knuckles. I can craft up to iron tier 3, but i got steel knuckle parts and already got steel knuckles tier4, no point in me looting more steel knuckle parts or the knuckle books anymore, with this change I would need to continue to find parts and books.

 

I definitely do not like this idea.

[warmer]

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

I can repair various things on a car but I can't craft a car or the parts for the car.  Repairing is far easier than crafting.  Fine for a game but it does break playstyles where people aren't interested in crafting and so don't bother with the magazines other than to sell them and I really don't see much real benefit from that.  Balancing would be a better solution, I think.

 

I definitely do not like this idea.

Repair or replace? two completely different ideas. Are you taking that broken alternator out and replacing it with a new one? that isn't happening in the apocalypse. you'd be rebuilding that alternator. HUGE difference. repairing is not the same as slapping some duct tape on it. That isn't a fix, that's a band aid. a repair should get the item to near new condition, and you can't do that by swapping out your broken part for a used one with some life left in it.

 

Anyone can swap out some spark plugs, but do you know how to "repair" a broken one? you don't unless you understand how it's made.

[Rince]

20 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Prepare to be merged with the other discussion about exactly what you said.

 

But yes, traders need a nerf of crafting needs a buff. I played with the spear twice now. Never crafted more than a stone spear. Both times i got the iron spear and the steel spear way before i could craft it myself. Either as a reward or i bought it.

 

And what you describe is learning by doing. We had that in this game until A17. And it won´t come back. TFP made this very clear.

You have points in Daring Adventurer? Because I only put 1 point in it, and playing as spears as day 60 had to craft every single spear that I used because I never found in trader or loot a better one than the ones that I could craft. I only found a T5 steel spear on day 59, and obviously was worse than my current spear.

Same for the armor, all crafted.

I found a nice rifle early, but now I replaced with crafted one.

 

Is pretty crazy how the RNG can be so wildy different. I keep wondering if DA or LL is a big factor.

This sounds like a real headache to balance if you ask me.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Rince No DA or LL, my buddy got the same with using the club. Wood tier 3 was the only one he crafted and on day 10 he had a t3 steel club.

Edited July 6, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Rince]

Just now, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Rince No DA, my buddy got the same with using the club. Wood tier 3 was the only one he crafted and on day 10 he had a t3 steel club.

So, DA isn't even a factor then. This sounds quite complicated to balance. Hope they manage and can find an happy medium.

[theFlu]

It might not just be RNG, it might be a playstyle difference. One group spends a lot of time in the forest, another pushes for wasteland day 1. The wasteland group will have a massive quality increase and thus will way more likely find those good gubs to overrun the crafting side.

 

Milder versions apply too, ofc, just between forest and desert there should be a difference.

Edited July 6, 2023 by theFlu (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

6 minutes ago, theFlu said:

It might not just be RNG, it might be a playstyle difference. One group spends a lot of time in the forest, another pushes for wasteland day 1. The wasteland group will have a massive quality increase and thus will way more likely find those good gubs to overrun the crafting side.

 

Forest/Burnt Forest (custom map not even sure if burnt has a higher lootstage, it´s half a skull) no wasteland/snow/desert involved. Loot/rewards can be OP af. For loot the POI lootstage seems way to high to keep up with the character progression if you keep questing wich the water and crafting skills changes make you do.

Edited July 6, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Rince]

30 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Forest/Burnt Forest (custom map not even sure if burnt has a higher lootstage, it´s half a skull) no wasteland/snow/desert involved. Loot/rewards can be OP af. For loot the POI lootstage seems way to high to keep up with the character progression if you keep questing wich the water and crafting skills changes make you do.

I keep doing quest, because I like questing, and as I said before the quest rewards, traders inventory weren't particularly stellar. All in the forest biome.

For 55 days. After that I moved to the desert to find greener pastures... not literally, of course.

 

So, seems to be pure wild RNG.