Attributes should probably go

[Boidster]

13 hours ago, Roland said:

It’s okay to be shut out of some options by choosing other options. 

 

But if I eat the cake, then I won't have the cake! How would I even?

 

8 hours ago, Sal said:

Stop liking what I don't like.

 

I use Charismatic Nature in every game, but I'm a team player. Also animal tracking, lock picking, huntsman, and treasure hunter, depending on my mood. Who are you to decide what is or is not a useful skill to other people?

 

Okay, you're right on Pack Mule. But my solution to that would be something like having Pack Mule open up spots even to pocket mods. That is, if you haven't Pack-Mule'd the spots yet, then pocket mods won't help. And you still need the pocket mods to actually use the spots. So maybe 3 spots are unlocked, but not usable when you start. You can make pocket mods to make them usable. Beyond that, additional mods won't help until you perk into Pack Mule to unlock the spots.

 

Pack Mule = "I can effectively carry more weight"

Pocket Mods = "I have crafted containers where I can put all that weight I can now carry"

 

I do not expect this will be a popular idea.

[BFT2020]

6 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

I've seen many different perk/skill/talent trees. I've never seen a system were you FIRST spend points to unlock higher tier skills and then use points FROM THE SAME POOL to unlock said skills.
Note my wording there, I find it normal to first unlock a tree and then buy skills, but all games I've played that do this use different point pools for both. Let's take earlier Fallout games for example. You have your SPECIAL poins, Skill points and Perk points, that works perfectly fine. Honestly that type of solution would probably work instead of removing attributes in 7d2d.
My point is: the current perk system needs more freedom.

 

You mentioned Fallout (earlier games), but didn't specifically mentioned the later ones (Fallout 3, NV, and 4).  Those games are more aligned with the way that TFP have setup 7D2D.  In order to unlock the higher perks in any of the SPECIAL branches, you have to increase those branches using the same points you use for the actual perks.  Those games are a perfect example of where you have to spend points first to level up that tree, then unlock the perk points - all from the same pool.

 

Fallout 1 I remember clearly, you choose your attributes level at the beginning, and then as you leveled up, you gained points that you can place into your various skills.  However, your initial SPECIAL build limited what you could unlock as you had little opportunities to increase those stats (if I am remembering correctly, a Brotherhood doctor could boost some of them by 1 via paying them - expensive).

 

Skyrim didn't have anything like SPECIAL, but had the various skill trees.  You gain perk points every time you leveled up, but you couldn't unlock higher level perks until you have enough experience in those skill trees - i.e. LBD.  A lot of people want TFP to go that route, but that system is constantly abused.

 

There are various systems out there for attributes / skills / perk trees, and they all have their own pros and cons.

 

One way around the current 7D2D system is you can mod it so after you complete the first easy survivor missions, you get a set amount of skills points that the player puts in the PSFAI attributes and then every skill point you earn after that only goes into the actual perks.

[Sal]

1 hour ago, Boidster said:

9 hours ago, Sal said:

Stop liking what I don't like.

 

I use Charismatic Nature in every game, but I'm a team player. Also animal tracking, lock picking, huntsman, and treasure hunter, depending on my mood. Who are you to decide what is or is not a useful skill to other people?

Good for you but I'd say your in the minority.

 

So who are YOU to decide. Now go sit down son.

[theFlu]

Most skill trees I've seen are unlocked by getting "lower" tiers of skills first; and then getting to choose higher tier skills after enough points spent. (for a pretty clean example, borderlands). Your options increase as you go up, and usually the character specializes more and more into a subset.

 

For the 7dtd version, I don't know if it should even be called a tree; it looks more like a cactus, one trunk and 10 spikes every other level. All your skills are available on level 1, and then you have to pile points in one thing to unlock the next level of .. everything. It doesn't help that the "one" thing pretends to be 5 "different" things, by limiting the application of the same exact skill to oddly specific weapons.

 

For me, it doesn't really play well, and it doesn't make "realistic" sense either; I'd much rather have a real "class select" at the start.

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Sal said:

Good for you but I'd say your in the minority.

 

Don't think that poll proves what and who is in the minority.  The number of responses on the poll is very insignificant compared to the player base.

 

At most, you can say Boidster might be in the minority of the people that actually responded to the poll.

[No_Name_Idea]

13 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Most skill trees I've seen are unlocked by getting "lower" tiers of skills first; and then getting to choose higher tier skills after enough points spent. (for a pretty clean example, borderlands). Your options increase as you go up, and usually the character specializes more and more into a subset.

Payday 2 does this style of trees too and it's amazing. I discover new ways to play these titles even today. Plus what do you know, many of the "meme" builds in these games are totally viable aside from the most challegining difficulties/bosses.

 

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

You mentioned Fallout (earlier games), but didn't specifically mentioned the later ones (Fallout 3, NV, and 4).  Those games are more aligned with the way that TFP have setup 7D2D.  In order to unlock the higher perks in any of the SPECIAL branches, you have to increase those branches using the same points you use for the actual perks.  Those games are a perfect example of where you have to spend points first to level up that tree, then unlock the perk points - all from the same pool.

I might've worded that better, but by "earlier" I actually meant 3 and NV (I consider 1 and 2 "the old" and 4 "the newest"). I distinctly remember those two games had 3 different point pools for SPECIAL, Skills and Perks (unless I'm just wrong and my memory is garbo). Didn't play 1 and 2 so I won't talk about them.

 

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Skyrim didn't have anything like SPECIAL, but had the various skill trees.  You gain perk points every time you leveled up, but you couldn't unlock higher level perks until you have enough experience in those skill trees - i.e. LBD.  A lot of people want TFP to go that route, but that system is constantly abused.

I won't really get into the LBD because I kinda figure that here is now way it's coming back. I don't even particularly want it back, although I wouldn't mind it. I'm just replying to this because I had this thought as I was reading your post. What if LBD was reintroduced but only for weapons? Kind of an off-topic idea.

[Roland]

8 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

It was you who said that the current perk system is designed to prevent rushing and yet here you agree with me that rushing in the current system is totally possible. So hey, it doesn't matter whether attributes stay or go. As long as there are perk systems, some people will speedrun some perks since it gives them satisfaction.

 

The difference is that what people consider the most desirable (read optimal) perks are currently spread across different attribute trees. So yes, people speed run but they still must pay very high costs in order to get the most powerful perks. If attributes are removed so that any perks can be bought in any combination then rushing to the powerful perks is even faster and easier which means the devs would have to put exorbitant costs on those perks anyway which would make people mad since they would still be spending about the same amounts as they are now in order to max out.

 

8 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Okay, but how do perks being balanced in power suddenly remove the "different feel" of various builds? If you want different difficulties, we already have like 20 sliders for that.

 

Because human nature. The devs want there to be archetypes and so there are. You can still ignore those archetypes and purchase whatever you want but it is pricey to do and slower to build up and progress. As I mentioned, I think re-categorizing the perks or getting rid of the attributes would be a nice optional version of the game or a cool mod, but I don't think the current model is bad. I think it can provide for 100s of hours of entertainment exploring the five primary attributes and then doing combos of pairs of them and then even other more esoteric combos as challenges.

 

8 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Yes, this is how builds are supposed to work. I'm not here arguing that we should be able to get every perk in the game by the time we hit lvl100.

 

I know. But you have a specific combination of perks you want earlier in the game than you can currently get them and it irritates you that they are separated across attributes making them more costly. I never thought or meant to convey that you wanted everything by lvl 100. You just have your own dream list of perks that you want much earlier than is currently possible.

 

8 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

but "different" builds in 7d2d are often just straight up frustrating to play. 

 

Why? What makes them frustrating? From your posts so far I would guess that it is because they are sub-optimal and way too expensive and slow so that the game catches up with you power-wise and passes you by while you are trying to build up enough points to purchase what you need. In addition is is annoying that the extra costs unlock abilities you don't plan to use. Is that it or is there more?

 

8 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Should we now balance games around 1% of players?

 

Not at all. But we also don't nerf things just because some people think they are unviable at their top difficulty limit. The game is balanced around nomad difficulty which is default +1. Some people play at the highest difficulty and then complain that certain things make the highest difficulty impossible for them and so they want those things changed so that the highest difficulty becomes possible for them. The way I see it is that those people should simply lower the difficulty instead of assuming that what is impossible for them must be impossible for everyone.

 

Gamer ego also shouldn't be the basis of how the game is balanced even though that afflicts way more than 1% of players...

 

8 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Damn man, you just removed attributes without removing attributes, kinda.

 

Yes, but only as an option or mod. I still don't think attributes should be removed from the vanilla version but I'm very willing to let anyone mod the game however they want and I'm all for cool options being provided that can really change up the game.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

Attributes don´t bother me in SP. In MP they are annoying though. In a group people specialize in something, and if you want to change you need a lot of points. So if you deceide what you specialize in, you are stuck. Game doesn´t last long enough, as it lacks challenge after like 40 days, for everyone to get a  forgettign elixir or to gather enough points to get a different route. And i still highly doubt that bandits will change the endgame that much that it really matters.

 

Actually not a fan of the LBD system we had, but playing Darkness Falls in MP Coop with a LBD/perk system gives you so much more freedom what to do whenever you want to do it.

Edited May 10, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Rotor]

12 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

. so much more freedom ...

 

FREEDOOOOM!!

Edited May 10, 2022 by Rotor (see edit history)

[Roland]

11 hours ago, The-Walking-Dad said:

 

Damnit, Roland! Bomb dropped.

Have you had a chance to experience the New Way yet, or is it still on the drawing board at this time?

I’ve played with it but it is very much a WIP. It is interesting and fun because it is new and changes things up— but I don’t know how much better it will be and I’m sure there will be some people who won’t like it.
 

I think it is a bold change and that is always going to polarize people who like or dislike it. I’m sure there will be plenty of spice in the forums once it is fully explained and people start thinking about what it will mean for their favored gameplay and then again once they actually get to play with it and react. 

[BFT2020]

5 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

I might've worded that better, but by "earlier" I actually meant 3 and NV (I consider 1 and 2 "the old" and 4 "the newest"). I distinctly remember those two games had 3 different point pools for SPECIAL, Skills and Perks (unless I'm just wrong and my memory is garbo). Didn't play 1 and 2 so I won't talk about them.

 

Turns out we are both wrong from a memory standpoint.  Fallout 4 is what I was talking about (and my most recent experience).  Fallout 3 and NV were more similar to the skill progress of 1 & 2.

 

Though FO3 and FO NV, the ability to raise SPECIAL was not tied to any pool really.  It was tied to selecting perks (like intense training) that increased your SPECIALs.  However, essentially it was the same pool as 7D2D.  Every level up you earn perk points which you can either spend on Intense training to raise a SPECIAL or a specific perk as long as your SPECIAL for that perk meant the minimum requirement - which is basically the same as 7D2D.  The main difference (IMHO) between those 2 games and 7D2D was just the number of perks were much higher.  7D2D perks though seem to have more ranks (with the exception of Intense Training).

[ElDudorino]

TC, have you tried the Darkness Falls mod? In my opinion, it has a much more enjoyable skill system.

 

Attributes are gone, thank God. But, to level up perks you need to meet requirements, generally by leveling related skills in a "learn by doing" system. So, you gain points in blunt weapons skill by using blunt weapons, and then when you get perk points from leveling up you can level up the Pummel Pete perk if your blunt skill is high enough.

 

Also, melee weapons have been condensed so that fists, sledges, batons, and clubs share the same skills while blades and spears also share the same skills. It allows you to for example switch between sledge and fists (which are strong in DF) depending on the situation.

 

I think it's a huge improvement over the vanilla game. Unfortunately it's tied pretty deeply into the mod's other features and the mod is a major overhaul of the game so I don't think you'd be able to just take the skill system (and the better farming) without jumping all the way in with the mod. Still, it serves as a model of a much better system than what we have now. For one thing, it has me using skills I otherwise would have ignored because I don't want to level Perception for example.

[Boidster]

On 5/10/2022 at 11:54 AM, Sal said:

So who are YOU to decide. Now go sit down son.

 

I am nobody to decide, Dad. We are in agreement, then: neither of us should claim that this or that perk objectively "serves no useful purpose". Subjectively, for my play style, some perks are preferred, others not. For your play style, you'll prefer different perks from me. Cool, man. Play how ya like. To the extent that many different play styles all disfavor a particular perk, it could either be because a) it legit needs some tweaking (looking at you Pack Mule) or b) the play style it's designed for just isn't a very popular style (my theory about Charismatic Nature).

[ElDudorino]

Yeah, the big overhaul mods all seem to have buffed Pack Mule. I actually take it then. It seems like the popular thing to do is increase the backpack size but keep encumbrance as it is, so if you actually fill your large backpack early on you'll be paralyzed. Then Pack Mule unlocks a bunch of slots / reduces encumbrance by a large amount.

 

In the vanilla game you absolutely can say pack mule is objectively a misuse of points because you can max out your slots easily without the perk and even if you wanted to get there sooner the perk barely helps the process.

[No_Name_Idea]

On 5/10/2022 at 8:10 PM, Roland said:

The difference is that what people consider the most desirable (read optimal) perks are currently spread across different attribute trees. So yes, people speed run but they still must pay very high costs in order to get the most powerful perks. If attributes are removed so that any perks can be bought in any combination then rushing to the powerful perks is even faster and easier which means the devs would have to put exorbitant costs on those perks anyway which would make people mad since they would still be spending about the same amounts as they are now in order to max out.

Sure, except like half of the meta perks are in the intellect tree.

 

On 5/10/2022 at 8:10 PM, Roland said:

The devs want there to be archetypes and so there are. You can still ignore those archetypes and purchase whatever you want but it is pricey to do and slower to build up and progress.

Yes, this is what I wrote in the opening post. I've also said multiple times in this thread why (imo) this system is bad.

 

On 5/10/2022 at 8:10 PM, Roland said:

I don't think the current model is bad. I think it can provide for 100s of hours of entertainment exploring the five primary attributes and then doing combos of pairs of them and then even other more esoteric combos as challenges.

Why do you think the attribute-less system wouldn't do the same or better? Throughout this entire thread you just assume that it's going to suck because why exactly? I haven't seen a concrete reason beside "rushing" which is totally possible in the current perk system.

 

On 5/10/2022 at 8:10 PM, Roland said:

I know. But you have a specific combination of perks you want earlier in the game than you can currently get them and it irritates you that they are separated across attributes making them more costly. I never thought or meant to convey that you wanted everything by lvl 100. You just have your own dream list of perks that you want much earlier than is currently possible.

No, I have a specific combination of perks that I want without having to waste perk point's on crap I don't even care about.

 

On 5/10/2022 at 8:10 PM, Roland said:

Why? What makes them frustrating? From your posts so far I would guess that it is because they are sub-optimal and way too expensive and slow so that the game catches up with you power-wise and passes you by while you are trying to build up enough points to purchase what you need. In addition is is annoying that the extra costs unlock abilities you don't plan to use. Is that it or is there more?

Nah, that's pretty much it.

 

On 5/10/2022 at 8:10 PM, Roland said:

Not at all. But we also don't nerf things just because some people think they are unviable at their top difficulty limit. The game is balanced around nomad difficulty which is default +1. Some people play at the highest difficulty and then complain that certain things make the highest difficulty impossible for them and so they want those things changed so that the highest difficulty becomes possible for them. The way I see it is that those people should simply lower the difficulty instead of assuming that what is impossible for them must be impossible for everyone.

Maaan, I play on Warrior :v
Besides, you're changing the topic. You've said that we should leave garbage builds at garbage level because of some 3 guys who can "beat" the game with them. I'm saying that most builds should provide equal oppotunity to "win", just in different ways. I'm not saying we should make the game into a cakewalk.

 

On 5/10/2022 at 8:10 PM, Roland said:

I still don't think attributes should be removed from the vanilla version but I'm very willing to let anyone mod the game however they want and I'm all for cool options being provided that can really change up the game.

Yeah, I'd be down for it being an option if it was properly balanced, but I wouldn't be a fan of it being a mod given how buggy and unsupported those usually are.

 

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21 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Though FO3 and FO NV, the ability to raise SPECIAL was not tied to any pool really.  It was tied to selecting perks (like intense training) that increased your SPECIALs.  However, essentially it was the same pool as 7D2D.  Every level up you earn perk points which you can either spend on Intense training to raise a SPECIAL or a specific perk as long as your SPECIAL for that perk meant the minimum requirement - which is basically the same as 7D2D.  The main difference (IMHO) between those 2 games and 7D2D was just the number of perks were much higher.  7D2D perks though seem to have more ranks (with the exception of Intense Training).

Nah, there is a different point pool for SPECIAL, the one you use when creating the character. Yes, I'm aware of Intense Training but it's not like the entire game is balanced around it. I'm not forced to put points into IT in order to have access to a vast amount of perks. In 7d2d I'm forced to "burn" perk points all the god damn time.

Edited May 11, 2022 by No_Name_Idea (see edit history)

[Roland]

5 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Sure, except like half of the meta perks are in the intellect tree.

“Meta perks” is simply code for max/min gameplay. They aren’t critical. I often ignore the intellect tree and survive just fine. 

 

5 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Yes, this is what I wrote in the opening post. I've also said multiple times in this thread why (imo) this system is bad.

You don’t like it. I do. Others don’t like it and others do. Doesn’t make it a bad system—just an unpopular one among players like you. Should they change their design because some players don’t like how they organized things. They do like attribute trees and it is their game. They realize not everyone is going to like what they design but plenty of people like it. 

 

5 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

No, I have a specific combination of perks that I want without having to waste perk point's on crap I don't even care about.

It’s just extra cost for putting those combos together same as it would be if they readjusted the prices and got rid of the attributes. Forget about the benefits those extra costs give if you don’t care about them. You aren’t paying for those you are paying for the combo of perks you want to put together. 
 

5 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Maaan, I play on Warrior :v
Besides, you're changing the topic. You've said that we should leave garbage builds at garbage level because of some 3 guys who can "beat" the game with them. I'm saying that most builds should provide equal oppotunity to "win", just in different ways. I'm not saying we should make the game into a cakewalk.

I play on Warrior too.  

 

I’m not changing the subject. You first said that spreading your points around makes you too weak to play on at the difficulty level you chose and later even checked someone by quipping “I don’t play on Scavenger”.  Making all combinations of perks equally able to “win” simply makes all the combos symmetrical and gives the game a same feel no matter what you choose. 
 

I like the asymmetrical feel of the various builds and that some combos have to be developed slowly and become quite challenging in the mid to late game. That option to choose a challenging character build would disappear if we made all combos equally capable of winning. 

it’s not about making the game into a cake-walk. It’s about making it not matter whatever kind of character you choose to develop.

 

5 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Why do you think the attribute-less system wouldn't do the same or better? Throughout this entire thread you just assume that it's going to suck because why exactly?

I wouldn’t say that it would suck. I like the attribute trees because they allow for easy/obvious character builds, intermediate character builds, and challenging character builds. I like the asymmetrical nature of the current system. Even just playing through the game five times sticking to one tree makes for very different experiences.

 

Without the attributes players would gravitate to the same optimal combo of perks without any reason or guide to do differently.
 

Im sure the game would still be a lot of fun without the attributes. I just like them the way they are. But I’ve made my point and I’m not trying to stifle your opinion so I’ll end and let you continue pressing for what you want. 👍

[Sal]

9 hours ago, Boidster said:

 

I am nobody to decide, Dad. We are in agreement, then: neither of us should claim that this or that perk objectively "serves no useful purpose". Subjectively, for my play style, some perks are preferred, others not. For your play style, you'll prefer different perks from me. Cool, man. Play how ya like. To the extent that many different play styles all disfavor a particular perk, it could either be because a) it legit needs some tweaking (looking at you Pack Mule) or b) the play style it's designed for just isn't a very popular style (my theory about Charismatic Nature).

I think we're both in the same building here just on different floors (per say).  I get what your saying here and I fully agree with it.....in theory.  I really do.  Give every type of player an option based on how they choose to play the game and I'm all for this. All day long. I'm of the opinion..... "the more options, the better".

 

I'm not in any way saying they should 'only offer perks that benefit my particular style'.  But I am, however, saying that there needs to be a better way to balance it.  Similar to what you suggested about the pack mule perk. I think that's an excellent idea. Having pocket mods hidden behind T1 'pack pule' would give people more of an incentive to put points into it.  I see the purpose of having "pack mule" as a perk, in general, but in doesn't really make sense in it's current state with how the rest of the game is designed. Just make it make sense! And do the same with the rest of perks.

 

Speaking of perks and the "charismatic" perk. I would also like to add that I think TFP is having a really hard time trying to balance perks for players both MP/coop and SP players as well IMO.  This alone offers a different challenge.  I think they're trying their butts off to find a balance but that's a big task because trying to cater to both sides at the same time  is an extremely hard thing to accomplish without taking away from one side to other. Especially for a game like this where I imagine the pool of players is nearly split 50/50 between MP or SP. I have nothing to back this up but I'm sure you get my point.

 

Separating SP files from MP servers would help alleviate alot of issues IMO. But I'm not sure how viable that option is.

[Kalen]

Not sure why people think pack mule is useless.... sure you can get the same effect using pocket mods.   But that comes at a cost.  You are using valuable mod slots that you could otherwise use for something else.

 

I'm not saying that makes pack mule awesome.... just saying that it absolutely has some value.

[Sal]

19 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Not sure why people think pack mule is useless.... sure you can get the same effect using pocket mods.   But that comes at a cost. 

The cost of 2 leather, 1 duct tape, 15 cloth and 1 sewing kit. All of which can found with ease.

 

19 minutes ago, Kalen said:

You are using valuable mod slots that you could otherwise use for something else.

Like what? Insulation mods that serve even less of a real purpose.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Sal (see edit history)

[Kalen]

3 minutes ago, Sal said:

The cost of 2 leather, 1 duct tape, 15 cloth and 1 sewing kit. All of which can found with ease.

 

The cost is the cost of losing a mod slot

 

4 minutes ago, Sal said:

Like what? Insulation mods that serve even less of a real purpose.

 

There are lots of mods some are really useful, some marginally so.... but all have some level of value.   

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

1 hour ago, Kalen said:

 

The cost is the cost of losing a mod slot

 

 

Never missed the slot a pocket mod takes. Besides the obvious helmet light/bandolier/boots mod(the one for fall damage, just can´t memorize it´s name even after all the years), customized fittings are all i need, even when playing stealth i rather have pocket mods than muffled connectors.

[Kalen]

14 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Never missed the slot a pocket mod takes. Besides the obvious helmet light/bandolier/boots mod(the one for fall damage, just can´t memorize it´s name even after all the years), customized fittings are all i need, even when playing stealth i rather have pocket mods than muffled connectors.

 

Thats cool.... I have.  Different people value different things.   Nothing wrong with that.

[ElDudorino]

There aren't even enough armor mods to fill all the mod slots you get.  There's no lost opportunity cost for ignoring pack mule. You can take it if you're just into weird stuff but its value is objectively much lower than pretty much every other perk (not counting charisma for singleplayer).

[Kalen]

8 minutes ago, ElDudorino said:

There aren't even enough armor mods to fill all the mod slots you get.  There's no lost opportunity cost for ignoring pack mule. You can take it if you're just into weird stuff but its value is objectively much lower than pretty much every other perk (not counting charisma for singleplayer).

 

Debatable.... if you're living in a snow or desert biome the insulator or cooling mods certainly have some value.   I agree that most perks are more valuable than a mod slot.... again, I'll I'm saying is that pack mule is not useless.   It's value to most maybe very low but there is value.

 

I would love to see many more and varied mods so that the choice of mods becomes a little more difficult to make and a perk like pack mule becomes a little more appealing.

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I would love to see many more and varied mods so that the choice of mods becomes a little more difficult to make and a perk like pack mule becomes a little more appealing.

 

Well, not as cool as a wider variety of mods but definitely having the same effect will be a lot fewer mod slots available once we reduce wearable gear from ten items to four... 

 

Personally, think the pocket mods should add inventory slots and the perk should open inventory slots. Then there is a function for both.