Modlet Improved Hordes [A21.2]

[Venturai]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:41 PM, FilUnderscore said:

Are you running the "improvedhordes flush" command when tweaking the density and populator settings? It resets all the hordes and applies the new settings instantly, otherwise you'll have to wait for the next re-population event to take place (by default 7 days in the wild and POI zones).

 

Lowering the populator sparsity values from "32" to "16", for example, will spawn 2x more hordes in the wild. Consider also increasing the horde_biome_multiplier and density_per_km_squared settings if you want more hordes in every biome throughout the world, but be warned the number of hordes will quickly increase after resetting the hordes with the command.

 

Screamers don't spawn hordes anymore but rather notify any hordes within a couple hundred meters distance of your location (you can adjust this through the event_interest_distance_multiplier setting to increase/decrease this distance). When coupled with the modifications above, it will be truly menacing I can assure you. When you finally figure out how each setting impacts the roaming horde spawns in the world, you can achieve a lot more than in the A20 version.

 

I've kept the settings relatively easier for the default version of the mod, however when the add-ons release later this week, you can expect similar experiences as I've described above.

Quick question, but if you make those changes outside of the game and then fire your world up, do they not take effect straight away or do you still have to enter that flush command?

 

Either way, as soon as that addon you're talking about drops, that sucker is getting installed.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to go with some of Wyrm's settings, because even with the mod installed but no changes made, there are times it feels like a ghost town.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Venturai (see edit history)

[EvilPolygons]

I'm also wondering about the FastAI mod.

I downloaded it from the Nexus before it was taken down. Does it cause instability issues? Should I stop using it?

 

[FilUnderscore]

7 hours ago, Paixetamour said:

Hello FilUnderscore. Im currently using your FastAI mod on my dedicated server and today i saw it removed from nexusmods and github. May i ask the reason ?

 

26 minutes ago, EvilPolygons said:

I'm also wondering about the FastAI mod.

I downloaded it from the Nexus before it was taken down. Does it cause instability issues? Should I stop using it?

 

Currently revising my approach with it, needs more testing and hopefully more could be done with it. No ETA on when it will be coming back for now. Doesn’t cause any issues, but there were skeptical claims made that had every right to be skeptical. If you do find any performance benefits from it though let me know, could be useful info. I think it could be a potential fix to one of the bugs Improved Hordes currently has with frozen zombies but it doesn’t look like it will be a simple fix.

 

4 hours ago, Venturai said:

Quick question, but if you make those changes outside of the game and then fire your world up, do they not take effect straight away or do you still have to enter that flush command?

 

Either way, as soon as that addon you're talking about drops, that sucker is getting installed.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to go with some of Wyrm's settings, because even with the mod installed but no changes made, there are times it feels like a ghost town.

Just thought about adding some way to detect the setting changes and flush it automatically, might see that added in next beta release. You will need to flush it manually until then.

[MrSamuelAdams]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:08 PM, Wyrm said:

I changed a few things as I was tipped about, increased the radius for screamers and ran the flush-command.

Slightly more hordes, but still quite small ones.

 

I took a little dump from the console after running the stats command

 

 

The hordes are still underwhelming.
I have fond memories from Alpha 20 where we often attracted hordes and screamers when doing large POIs and being nearly unable to fight them because the spawning of new zombies never ceased. Probably due to the previous screamer mechanics, causing new screamer-spawns during the fight.  More often than not, we had to fight our way to our vehicles and run away. I loved that and currently we're not getting close. We have had some small groups attack us in POIs but rarely more than 10-15 zombies. Screamers still doesn't seem to attract other hordes...

 

I dump the current settings.xml here as well for reference

 

<!-- Settings for Improved Hordes. -->
<improved_hordes>
	<!-- https://github.com/FilUnderscore/ImprovedHordes/wiki/Settings -->

	<!-- Entity Spawn Limit -->
	<max_entities_spawned_per_player>-1</max_entities_spawned_per_player> <!-- -1 to disable. Note: This is still limited by the game's MaxEnemyCount and MaxAnimalCount settings. -->

	<!-- World Spawn Limits -->
	<max_horde_density>6.0</max_horde_density> <!-- Max Horde Density per Horde. (Horde biome size) -->
	<density_per_km_squared>12</density_per_km_squared> <!-- Max World Horde Density. (Number of hordes in world) -->
	
	<!-- Horde Biome Spawn Settings -->
	<horde_biome_multiplier>1.0</horde_biome_multiplier> <!-- Biome multiplier. Higher = more hordes. -->
	<horde_biome_curve_scale>2.0</horde_biome_curve_scale> <!-- Biome Curve Scale. Higher = more hordes in the wasteland. -->
	
	<!-- Horde Merge Distances -->
	<loaded_merge_distance>10</loaded_merge_distance>
	<unloaded_merge_distance>50</unloaded_merge_distance>
	
	<!-- Horde Populator Settings -->
	<wandering_animal_wilderness_sparsity>64</wandering_animal_wilderness_sparsity>
	<wandering_animal_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>32</wandering_animal_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>
	
	<wandering_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>32</wandering_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>
	
	<wilderness_horde_repopulation_days>2</wilderness_horde_repopulation_days>
	<zone_horde_repopulation_days>2</zone_horde_repopulation_days>
	
	<!-- Events -->
	<event_chunk_radius>5</event_chunk_radius>
	<event_interest_distance_multiplier>1</event_interest_distance_multiplier>
</improved_hordes>

 

strange, so it's been two in game days so far and haven't seen any hordes at all even with this change inputted. not sure what's happening , I have max zombies and feral sense (i know that doesn't matter though) 

[FilUnderscore]

1 hour ago, MrSamuelAdams said:

strange, so it's been two in game days so far and haven't seen any hordes at all even with this change inputted. not sure what's happening , I have max zombies and feral sense (i know that doesn't matter though) 

I should add, each world is laid out differently with towns so hordes will naturally path differently in different maps with different settings. Right now they’ll be most common in areas between towns. Looking into further ways I can improve horde AI to visit less frequent paths more often. Also want to add more impact to feral sense in the future.

Edited July 14, 2023 by FilUnderscore (see edit history)

[Wyrm]

I've also noticed they seem to have difficulties getting into cities and larger towns. The large horde I got came when I ventured outside. Then when I fled, it followed be home.

 

The session last night we had several hordes in quite short succession. I guess several hordes stumbled close to our base and attacked with just a few in-game hours in between.  Made expanding our defences tricky since we kept being interrupted. But it was great fun 

 

Really looking forward to the addon.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Wyrm (see edit history)

[MrSamuelAdams]

So, day 3 happened and we got three massive hordes lol. Idk what happened but dang. Bit overkill but hilarious. Thats with Wyrm config too. 

 

Yeah, have to check the config day 4....we had back to back hordes with 30-50 zombies...Need to check it out lol

Edited July 14, 2023 by MrSamuelAdams (see edit history)

[Grimlock_Arts]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:29 PM, T0R said:

hell yes this sounds good. Didnt made it to get the vrmod running with linux but only coz im playing all the time with this mod. So whats the servers info if i wanna come around?

 

Here is the Discord for the Server:
You'll need to install some vehicles in your mods folder to join, links provided.
Our aim is to provide an awesome VR experience with a large set of VR complimentary mods.
Flat screen can join too, the VR mod is client side. 

https://discord.gg/2c86HchH

You can find the latest release of the VR mod on Nexus:

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/3011

Edited July 14, 2023 by Grimlock_Arts (see edit history)

[Agame]

On 7/13/2023 at 6:08 AM, Wyrm said:

I changed a few things as I was tipped about, increased the radius for screamers and ran the flush-command.

Slightly more hordes, but still quite small ones.

 

I took a little dump from the console after running the stats command

 

 

The hordes are still underwhelming.
I have fond memories from Alpha 20 where we often attracted hordes and screamers when doing large POIs and being nearly unable to fight them because the spawning of new zombies never ceased. Probably due to the previous screamer mechanics, causing new screamer-spawns during the fight.  More often than not, we had to fight our way to our vehicles and run away. I loved that and currently we're not getting close. We have had some small groups attack us in POIs but rarely more than 10-15 zombies. Screamers still doesn't seem to attract other hordes...

 

I dump the current settings.xml here as well for reference

Have you changed settings in hordes.xml? I used the settings someone posted earlier in this thread and that created some BIIIIIG hordes.

[Wyrm]

7 hours ago, Agame said:

Have you changed settings in hordes.xml? I used the settings someone posted earlier in this thread and that created some BIIIIIG hordes.

 

Yes, I boosted both the minCount and maxCount of some of the types

[FilUnderscore]

4 minutes ago, Wyrm said:

 

Yes, I boosted both the minCount and maxCount of some of the types

To add, you could change the GS entity count increase number to a lower value if you haven't already (it supports decimals, e.g. 0.5). increaseEvery increases the count by 1 for all entities within the <gs> tag every X gamestages.

[Wyrm]

2 hours ago, FilUnderscore said:

To add, you could change the GS entity count increase number to a lower value if you haven't already (it supports decimals, e.g. 0.5). increaseEvery increases the count by 1 for all entities within the <gs> tag every X gamestages.

 

I think I lowered them slightly. Good to know they take decimals. if I want to make further tweaks.  But at the moment I think I have found a level that works quite well for our little party.  

[Espio]

Been a while since I last posted here.  Ran into a saving bug on exit on Navezgane while doing some sound mod testing with the latest v2.0.0-beta.1:

 

https://pastebin.com/5gVm0kpn

 

"2023-07-15T16:09:56 851.871 WRN [Improved Hordes] [ImprovedHordesMod] TrySaveData(): Failed to save data. Collection was modified; enumeration operation may not execute." For finding the rest faster near the bottom of the logs.

[vinanrra]

8 hours ago, Wyrm said:

 

I think I lowered them slightly. Good to know they take decimals. if I want to make further tweaks.  But at the moment I think I have found a level that works quite well for our little party.  

 

Could you share your numbers? Becaure default it's imposible to play with 4 guys, we can't go into cities hahaha

[Wyrm]

4 hours ago, vinanrra said:

 

Could you share your numbers? Becaure default it's imposible to play with 4 guys, we can't go into cities hahaha

 

These changes were meant to increase sizes of hordes and make them get larger at earlier game stages. So if you find it hard to go into cities now, it will get harder with these changes

 

 

This is my hordes.xml

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<hordes>
	<horde type="wandering_enemy"> <!-- Define wandering horde parameters -->
		<merge />
		<groups> <!-- Define possible groups for wandering hordes-->
			<group name="Zombies">
				<gs min="0" increaseEvery="3"> <!-- Increase entity count by 1 every 5 game stages -->
					<entity time="day" biomes="wasteland" group="ZombiesWasteland" minCount="5" maxCount="64"/>
					<entity time="night" biomes="wasteland" group="ZombiesWastelandNight" minCount="5" maxCount="64"/>
			
					<entity time="day" biomes="pine_forest,snow,desert,burnt_forest" group="ZombiesAll" minCount="5" maxCount="64"/>
					<entity time="night" biomes="pine_forest,snow,desert,burnt_forest" group="ZombiesNight" minCount="5" maxCount="64"/>
				</gs>
				
				<gs min="70" increaseEvery="6">
					<entity time="day" biomes="wasteland" group="IHZombiesAllFeralWasteland" minCount="1" maxCount="25"/>
					<entity time="night" biomes="wasteland" group="ZombiesWastelandNight" minCount="1" maxCount="25"/>
				
					<entity time="day" chance="0.8" biomes="pine_forest,snow,desert,burnt_forest" group="IHZombiesAllFeral" minCount="1" maxCount="25"/>
					<entity time="night" chance="0.8" biomes="pine_forest,snow,desert,burnt_forest" group="IHZombiesAllFeralNight" minCount="1" maxCount="25"/>
				</gs>
				
				<!-- Radiated Zombies -->
				<gs min="180" increaseEvery="5">
					<entity time="day" chance="0.4" biomes="wasteland" group="IHZombiesAllRadiatedWasteland" minCount="1" maxCount="15"/>
					<entity time="night" chance="0.4" biomes="wasteland" group="IHZombiesAllRadiatedWastelandNight" minCount="1" maxCount="15"/>
				
					<entity time="day" chance="0.2" biomes="pine_forest,snow,desert,burnt_forest" group="IHZombiesAllRadiated" minCount="1" maxCount="15"/>
					<entity time="night" chance="0.2" biomes="pine_forest,snow,desert,burnt_forest" group="IHZombiesAllRadiatedNight" minCount="1" maxCount="15"/>
				</gs>
			</group>
		</groups>
	</horde>
	
	<horde type="wandering_animal">
		<merge />
		<groups>
			<group name="Stags" weight="0.25">
				<entity name="animalStag" minCount="1" maxCount="2"/>
				<entity name="animalDoe" minCount="2" maxCount="4"/>
			</group>
			
			<group name="Chickens">
				<entity name="animalChicken" minCount="3" maxCount="5"/>
			</group>
			
			<group name="Rabbits">
				<entity name="animalRabbit" minCount="2" maxCount="4"/>
			</group>
			
			<group name="Boars" weight="0.25">
				<entity name="animalBoar" minCount="3" maxCount="4"/>
			</group>
		</groups>
	</horde>
	
	<horde type="wandering_animal_enemy">
		<merge />
		<groups>
			<group name="Wolves" weight="0.1">
				<entity biomes="desert,snow" name="animalCoyote" minCount="1" maxCount="2"/>
				<entity biomes="pine_forest,burnt_forest" name="animalWolf" minCount="2" maxCount="4"/>

				<entity time="night" chance="0.25" biomes="pine_forest,desert,wasteland,burnt_forest" name="animalDireWolf" minCount="1" maxCount="2"/>
				<entity biomes="snow" name="animalMountainLion" minCount="1" maxCount="2"/>
			</group>
			
			<group name="Bears" weight="0.05">
				<entity biomes="pine_forest,snow" name="animalBear" minCount="1" maxCount="2"/>
					
				<entity time="night" biomes="wasteland,burnt_forest" name="animalZombieBear" minCount="1" maxCount="2"/>
			</group>
			
						
			<group name="ZombieDogs" weight="0.2">
				<entity chance="0.1" biomes="wasteland,pine_forest" name="animalZombieDog" minCount="1" maxCount="5"/>
			</group>
			
			<group name="Vultures" weight="0.01">
				<entity biomes="wasteland,desert,burnt_forest" name="animalZombieVulture" minCount="1" maxCount="3"/>
				
				<entity biomes="wasteland" name="animalZombieVultureRadiated" minCount="1" maxCount="2"/>
			</group>
		</groups>
	</horde>
	
	<horde type="screamer">
		<!-- Define list of hordes that this horde can merge with. Hordes of the same type can usually merge. Screamers are an exception. -->
		<merge>
			<horde type="wandering_enemy"/>
		</merge>
		
		<groups>
			<group name="Screamer">
				<gs min="0" max="75">
					<entity name="zombieScreamer" minCount="1" maxCount="1"/>
				</gs>
				
				<gs min="75" max="200">
					<entity name="zombieScreamerFeral" minCount="1" maxCount="1"/>
				</gs>
				
				<gs min="200">
					<entity name="zombieScreamerRadiated" minCount="1" maxCount="1"/>
				</gs>
			</group>
		</groups>
	</horde>
</hordes>

 

 

And this is settings.xml

 

<!-- Settings for Improved Hordes. -->
<improved_hordes>
	<!-- https://github.com/FilUnderscore/ImprovedHordes/wiki/Settings -->

	<!-- Entity Spawn Limit -->
	<max_entities_spawned_per_player>-1</max_entities_spawned_per_player> <!-- -1 to disable. Note: This is still limited by the game's MaxEnemyCount and MaxAnimalCount settings. -->

	<!-- World Spawn Limits -->
	<max_horde_density>10.0</max_horde_density> <!-- Max Horde Density per Horde. (Horde biome size) -->
	<density_per_km_squared>15</density_per_km_squared> <!-- Max World Horde Density. (Number of hordes in world) -->
	
	<!-- Horde Biome Spawn Settings -->
	<horde_biome_multiplier>1.0</horde_biome_multiplier> <!-- Biome multiplier. Higher = more hordes. -->
	<horde_biome_curve_scale>2.0</horde_biome_curve_scale> <!-- Biome Curve Scale. Higher = more hordes in the wasteland. -->
	
	<!-- Horde Merge Distances -->
	<loaded_merge_distance>15</loaded_merge_distance>
	<unloaded_merge_distance>100</unloaded_merge_distance>
	
	<!-- Horde Populator Settings -->
	<wandering_animal_wilderness_sparsity>64</wandering_animal_wilderness_sparsity>
	<wandering_animal_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>32</wandering_animal_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>
	
	<wandering_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>16</wandering_enemy_wilderness_sparsity>
	
	<wilderness_horde_repopulation_days>2</wilderness_horde_repopulation_days>
	<zone_horde_repopulation_days>2</zone_horde_repopulation_days>
	
	<!-- Events -->
	<event_chunk_radius>8</event_chunk_radius>
	<event_interest_distance_multiplier>2</event_interest_distance_multiplier>
</improved_hordes>

 

 

I have been thinking about turning the horde repopulation up to 5 or 7 just to hopefully create some periods of "lull" if you stay in the same area. Current setting make base building a bit tricky and will probably run us out of ammunition soon 

 

[FilUnderscore]

14 hours ago, Espio said:

Been a while since I last posted here.  Ran into a saving bug on exit on Navezgane while doing some sound mod testing with the latest v2.0.0-beta.1:

 

https://pastebin.com/5gVm0kpn

 

"2023-07-15T16:09:56 851.871 WRN [Improved Hordes] [ImprovedHordesMod] TrySaveData(): Failed to save data. Collection was modified; enumeration operation may not execute." For finding the rest faster near the bottom of the logs.

Thanks for bringing it up, fixed for next beta release.

[Venturai]

Anyone else feel that, since the beta, this has been less about wandering hordes and more about hordes just showing up at your base all the time?

 

I gave Wyrm's insane settings a go on a new single-player map yesterday, and they did somewhat highlight the point. You can be away for a bit smashing out trader quests or the like, and you'll come back to a crowd every single time. The predictability of it all made it very tedious, and that's coming from someone whose favourite part of this game is fighting with the zombies.

[FilUnderscore]

11 hours ago, Venturai said:

Anyone else feel that, since the beta, this has been less about wandering hordes and more about hordes just showing up at your base all the time?

 

I gave Wyrm's insane settings a go on a new single-player map yesterday, and they did somewhat highlight the point. You can be away for a bit smashing out trader quests or the like, and you'll come back to a crowd every single time. The predictability of it all made it very tedious, and that's coming from someone whose favourite part of this game is fighting with the zombies.

Is your base a converted POI or near town? Are you also generating any heat at your base while you're away? I've gotten similar reports on Nexus and I'm looking into it. I suspect that the new wandering AI change might be the culprit, and I could look to toning it down with a slightly simpler implementation.

[Dragonchampion]

I also want to mention I'm having hordes not really pay attention to the player at all. Like, I shoot a bear in a bear horde and they keep running past, same for boars.

[ItsRileyNJ]

1 hour ago, Dragonchampion said:

I also want to mention I'm having hordes not really pay attention to the player at all. Like, I shoot a bear in a bear horde and they keep running past, same for boars.

This, I love the mod but having hordes  run within 5 feet of me and not see me when I'm standing in plain sight just felt ugh. Or they see me (for about 10 seconds till they lose interest) then just run back and forth in a straight line.

[Dragonchampion]

1 hour ago, ItsRileyNJ said:

This, I love the mod but having hordes  run within 5 feet of me and not see me when I'm standing in plain sight just felt ugh. Or they see me (for about 10 seconds till they lose interest) then just run back and forth in a straight line.

And then if you have the edits to make more zombies appear, having that happen 50 times and drop your FPS to 10.

[Venturai]

22 hours ago, FilUnderscore said:

Is your base a converted POI or near town? Are you also generating any heat at your base while you're away? I've gotten similar reports on Nexus and I'm looking into it. I suspect that the new wandering AI change might be the culprit, and I could look to toning it down with a slightly simpler implementation.

Yeah, it was a converted POI in a town, there were a handful of torches up and I had a couple forges going so there was plenty of that heat being generated, but I have to concur with the comments made over at Nexus where it's basically as if feral sense is on and they just know where you are. The mod's great and all but I like that feeling of having to hide at night because a huge group just showed up nearby and you're hoping like @%$# you don't get detected.

[FilUnderscore]

  

16 hours ago, Dragonchampion said:

I also want to mention I'm having hordes not really pay attention to the player at all. Like, I shoot a bear in a bear horde and they keep running past, same for boars.

 

15 hours ago, ItsRileyNJ said:

This, I love the mod but having hordes  run within 5 feet of me and not see me when I'm standing in plain sight just felt ugh. Or they see me (for about 10 seconds till they lose interest) then just run back and forth in a straight line.

Working on AI tweaks, animals currently aren't affected by events however I think hostile ones should be more curious so I'll look to adjusting that.

 

14 hours ago, Dragonchampion said:

And then if you have the edits to make more zombies appear, having that happen 50 times and drop your FPS to 10.

Just a question about this, are the zombie spawns bypassing the MaxSpawnedZombies game pref by any chance? I had a similar report on another site and it could be a bug if so.

 

2 hours ago, Venturai said:

Yeah, it was a converted POI in a town, there were a handful of torches up and I had a couple forges going so there was plenty of that heat being generated, but I have to concur with the comments made over at Nexus where it's basically as if feral sense is on and they just know where you are. The mod's great and all but I like that feeling of having to hide at night because a huge group just showed up nearby and you're hoping like @%$# you don't get detected.

Part of this might be the zone wander AI instruction update in beta 1. As I just replied to someone on Nexus,

 

"I agree that AI pathing around POIs could be less aggressive. Right now it selects a random location outside of a POI and wanders there, however I could look to targeting town zone corners instead so they could go along the borders and across the middle. The new AI changes as well should stop them from hitting blocks when not attracted to events nearby. "

 

This should reduce the chance of hordes targeting specific POIs that you might happen to be nearby.

[Razor_]

Are the hordes supposed to spawn inside land claimed area or trader settlements? I have multiple instances of them spawning inside my base. Is there a way to configure this?

[SylenThunder]

33 minutes ago, Razor_ said:

Are the hordes supposed to spawn inside land claimed area or trader settlements? I have multiple instances of them spawning inside my base. Is there a way to configure this?

LCB's only block POI sleeper spawns. They don't block anything else. How big is your base?