[pathing/base defense] more types of zombies instead of smarter AI

[Dodge]

Zombies shouldn't be smart but at the same time being able to easily cheese them and make them loop around without them realizing that they cant even hit you feels off as a whole.

One solution is to make zombies smarter and if they are unable to hit you would start destroying the base, but this also feels off, zombies arent supposed to be smart at least not the basic ones.

 

Another solution is to add more types of zombies that each have their own fighting style and attack you differently.

 

So for example you would have a zombie specialised in destroying structures, low hp, only hits structures unless maybe it can directly hit you, has more block damage and lower damage on entities.

 

Ranged zombies, never hit you with melee, only attacks at a distance, can hit trough bars, holes etc.

 

Flying zombie that can land on rooftop and then start attacking entity/structure on foot, destroying the ceiling and landing on your head.

 

Etc...

 

Basically the idea is that add a variety of types of zombies to make the gameplay more rich instead of one dimensionnal and require you to be fully aware of your surrounding and being able to fend off attacks coming on every front instead of being able to mindlessly click at zombies coming directly at you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DominionZA]

Sometimes it feels cheesy. They already have kind of a super IQ. Zombies have ESP cheats and know exactly which singe block of your base is the weakest and will swarm that point all together. I have a pretty basic industrial hangar base and they tend to avoid my traps most of the time because there is a hidden, small thin side of my base covered by an material with lower HP than the other blocks. I haven't noticed it myself till they questionably started all clumping up to the same place of a sudden. Have to reinforce it and use more heavier traps

 

Maybe if regular zombies were dumb as rocks and would walk towards you head on and bash against any wall between him & you would work. Have specialized zombies who can do the "find weakest point of base and attack it" thing. The current spider zombie could climb walls and jump onto your roofs to attack it. I remember he used to be able to climb walls. I haven't seen in some time now.

 

Building a tight kill hallway inside your base with robotic sledges + electric wires or building a tower on top of your base with only one path upwards guarded by sledges is the current way to go. Stash all valueable crates and workstations inside an concrete/steel underground bunker so zombies will never get to damage any of it while you are on surface.

Edited December 25, 2021 by DominionZA (see edit history)

[pahbi]

The smarter the zombies get, the more players rely on pathing cheesy forts to cope.  

 

I miss the old days when you could just put out a bunch of spikes and defend your place with a shotgun.

 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Afaik right now the zombies are smarter than they should be. But that´s intended as kind of a testrun for bandit and survivor AI. Not 100% sure but i think i remember a discussion about that a while back where they said they will get dumber again.

 

@Roland can maybe give some info on that?

[Roland]

51 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Afaik right now the zombies are smarter than they should be. But that´s intended as kind of a testrun for bandit and survivor AI. Not 100% sure but i think i remember a discussion about that a while back where they said they will get dumber again.

 

@Roland can maybe give some info on that?

That was the thought but faatal later posted that he’s not basing the bandit AI off of the current zombie AI foundation. 
 

He also posted that he felt it a good idea to split zombie behavior to somewhat dumber for horde night but somewhat smarter normally since during POI exploration, really dumb behavior can be frustrating.  You don’t expect a zombie you encounter in a house to go into area destruction mode when you’re standing 4 meters away but you do want hordes of zombies to randomly destroy the area. 
 

We’ll get more info from the man himself as A21 gets underway and he shifts from debugging A20 to working on bandits and zombies for A21. He enjoys sharing what he’s currently working on. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yeah too dumb wouldn´t be a good idea. Splitting between blood moon and normal behaviour is propably the best. While it´s fun laughing at them on discortd, when they try to break trough a wall right next to an open door, it makes things too easy sometimes.

 

[Ripflex]

I stopped placing traps down with zombies avoiding them most of the time and electrical traps are too fragile and don't forget demolishers just F up your spikes like they are not there.  It's pretty much a few turrets for things getting too overwhelming and a tower of steel and just shoot a lot of bullets.  And the fact if you actually exploit the Zombie AI and have traps actually kill most of them, you have your player friends complain they are not getting their XP...

 

Traps really need an overhaul IMO.

 

Oh, don't forget the zombies serpentine around your mines sometimes and jukes your grenade throws ...   at least I swear they do ;( 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Ripflex (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

10 hours ago, Roland said:

You don’t expect a zombie you encounter in a house to go into area destruction mode when you’re standing 4 meters away but you do want hordes of zombies to randomly destroy the area. 

Actually, I expect zombies in a horde to come after me and not run away to beat up a tree. 

 

Zombies randomly attacking blocks works well for players standing on a roof or tower shooting down at the zombies.

It does not work if you use electric traps or have a melee base. You have to rely on the zombies behaving in a somewhat predictable way.
 

[DominionZA]

14 hours ago, pahbi said:

The smarter the zombies get, the more players rely on pathing cheesy forts to cope.  

 

I miss the old days when you could just put out a bunch of spikes and defend your place with a shotgun.

 

 

Alpha 1 days

Remember the sniper shotgun, it had endless range and no spread so you could one shot zombies with your pump shotgun from 100-300m

[Roland]

3 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Actually, I expect zombies in a horde to come after me and not run away to beat up a tree. 

 

Zombies randomly attacking blocks works well for players standing on a roof or tower shooting down at the zombies.

It does not work if you use electric traps or have a melee base. You have to rely on the zombies behaving in a somewhat predictable way.
 

I just meant that a random portion of them would go into area destruction or pick alt paths so that 100% of zombies wouldn’t line up to attack the one single best point of weakness. With hundreds of zombies you get a good share of them acting predictable but also some attacking unpredictably. But in a POI if the one or two zombies you encounter head for a window or won’t walk through an open door but beat on the wall next to it, it’s not so great. I don’t want all zombies acting erratically and hitting on trees during horde night. 

[beHypE]

17 hours ago, Roland said:

We’ll get more info from the man himself as A21 gets underway and he shifts from debugging A20 to working on bandits and zombies for A21. He enjoys sharing what he’s currently working on. 

Come on now, we all know bandits aren't gonna make it to A21 either. 😏

[Roland]

Hope springs eternal

[pahbi]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:23 AM, DominionZA said:

Alpha 1 days

Remember the sniper shotgun, it had endless range and no spread so you could one shot zombies with your pump shotgun from 100-300m

 

I think I started playing around alpha 6ish (I can't remember exactly when)

 

Horde nights were something right out of a George Romero movie, where zombies were trying to get through windows and doors and everywhere else, and you could hold down the fort with a shotgun and a pickaxe.

 

Good times...

[bloodmoth13]

Yes i agree we need a variety of zombies. There will never be a 1 size fits all zombie for a game like this.

 

You cant just dumb all the zombies down to avoid ramp exploitation and you cant just smarten them all up to avoid wasting a whole horde night beating on the wrong house. a mix of ai that do different things would create a chaotic atmosphere on horde nights, needing to attend the main killbox while also having to check on the back entrances etc.

 

[Matt115]

Random thougt but in my opinion maybe zombie with gun could be good idea. i know know "bAnDiTs" but in stalker you can find zombie with guns- slowly, inaccurate and just staying at place and shooting. Maybe this type of zombie could help - just add zombie soldier with shotgun and zombie bandit with hunting rifle