Loving A20 except the way loot is COMPLETELY BROKEN

[nostalginator]

2 hours ago, Krougal said:

Fishing weights are for making bullets, I don't know why you're counting scrap items. You get a lot of them in the trash, because before the apocalypse everyone threw out all their fishing weights because there were no rivers to fish in. If you didn't get them you'd have to mine lead yourself, hell I never mine lead, I just melt down fishing weights.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought I was seeing more of them than before and wanted to test my perception; that's why I counted them.  There are enough lead trophies (and just raw lead) to be found in loot that it made no difference.  I would much rather mine lead than have beakers/acid be impossible to find when looting, say, a house full of chemistry equipment (you know the one).  I would prefer not to have 62 lemons to make lemonade out of.

 

 

2 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

RNG is RNG. The lack of the guaranteed loot is one of the best parts of this game, IMO. Loot RNG  has the potential to make one playthrough significantly different from the next. But if not having something is rage inducing just use the creative menu and spawn it in. You can pick the day you think you should have looted it by and spawn it in.

I'm not going to do that because I shouldn't have to.  YMMV, but as far as I'm concerned, that menu is for when a bug screws you out of a vehicle or something similar.  Looting was suboptimal in A19, but now it's just broken.  Essential items are now gated behind unnecessarily low probabilities and that gets on my nerves.

[Krougal]

39 minutes ago, nostalginator said:

I thought I was seeing more of them than before and wanted to test my perception; that's why I counted them.  There are enough lead trophies (and just raw lead) to be found in loot that it made no difference.  I would much rather mine lead than have beakers/acid be impossible to find when looting, say, a house full of chemistry equipment (you know the one).  I would prefer not to have 62 lemons to make lemonade out of.

 

 

I'm not going to do that because I shouldn't have to.  YMMV, but as far as I'm concerned, that menu is for when a bug screws you out of a vehicle or something similar.  Looting was suboptimal in A19, but now it's just broken.  Essential items are now gated behind unnecessarily low probabilities and that gets on my nerves.

Yeah, and I get it. At some point these things are essential. Can you get by without them like Meganoth said? Sure.

Is it any fun? Not for most of us. The novelty wears off fast.

 

I would be all for make do with what you have if (I know I sound like a broken record) we didn't have this stupid RPG level & skill system where you are vested into skills you may or may not be able to find the things to make or the weapons you've chosen. THAT is not fun. Respec you say? Oh, wait, I can't because I can't make the potion with no beaker.

 

So no, it is unreasonable to not be able to find the equipment to make use of your skills.

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Krougal said:

Yeah, and I get it. At some point these things are essential. Can you get by without them like Meganoth said? Sure.

Is it any fun? Not for most of us. The novelty wears off fast.

 

I would be all for make do with what you have if (I know I sound like a broken record) we didn't have this stupid RPG level & skill system where you are vested into skills you may or may not be able to find the things to make or the weapons you've chosen. THAT is not fun. Respec you say? Oh, wait, I can't because I can't make the potion with no beaker.

 

So no, it is unreasonable to not be able to find the equipment to make use of your skills.

 

Respec you say? The ones that can always be bought from the trader? 😉

 

(AFAIK respec potions are always available from the trader or were in a previous alpha.)

 

 

 

[Krougal]

12 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Respec you say? The ones that can always be bought from the trader? 😉

 

(AFAIK respec potions are always available from the trader or were in a previous alpha.)

 

 

 

They also cost a fortune. Maybe I don't min/max enough on trading, but I don't tend to have unlimited money until late game.

I'm not sure if they are always available. They do seem to be there most of the time true, but of course the minute I go to buy something is when it tends to go *poof*

Edited December 24, 2021 by Krougal (see edit history)

[ckuebler]

If I am looking for loot specifics, I end up putting a couple of points into Daring Adventurer.  That way you can complete quests, and have a shot of getting that must-have item that you need.  I've seen beakers before as a choice for quest completion prize.  I actually made the choice recently to pass it up because I needed ammo or antibiotic more.  :shrug:

Otherwise, get your keister survivin'!  There's only one thing that is guaranteed - and that's the horde on Sunday.   

Edited December 24, 2021 by ckuebler (see edit history)

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, Krougal said:

They also cost a fortune. Maybe I don't min/max enough on trading, but I don't tend to have unlimited money until late game.

I'm not sure if they are always available. They do seem to be there most of the time true, but of course the minute I go to buy something is when it tends to go *poof*

 

AFAIK: It is expensive because the player should not be able to use it regularily, it should be the exception. And the reason they are always available at the trader is that the respec should be a general ability the player can use at any time (if he saves up the money naturally)

 

And I checked the XMLs and it seems it is always there. I'm not 100% sure because it isn't clear how the trader restock is done in detail, but the elixier is in every list of every trader as mandatory item.

[Krougal]

6 hours ago, ckuebler said:

Daring Adventurer. 

With the current meta, I consider this an important skill for every build.

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

AFAIK: It is expensive because the player should not be able to use it regularily, it should be the exception. And the reason they are always available at the trader is that the respec should be a general ability the player can use at any time (if he saves up the money naturally)

 

And I checked the XMLs and it seems it is always there. I'm not 100% sure because it isn't clear how the trader restock is done in detail, but the elixier is in every list of every trader as mandatory item.

Still all that is neither here nor there, my original argument stands. We shouldn't need to.

[Rince]

Aaaah!!! Yesterday found my first beaker!! And not only that, but found FOUR!!

 

It only took me almost dying several times in Dishong Tower in the Winter Biome!! Funny thing, besides the beaker and lots of ammo I didn't got anything noteworthy.

[Outlaw_187]

Yup, it's all up to RNG. My 1st playthrough, I couldn't find antibiotics to save my life. I woulda died of infection had I not started over when experimental updated. 

 

I do however also find an awful lot of fishings weights. I didn't keep track, I just scrap them on sight, but the probability to find these was most definitely increased in A20.

Oh yeah, I also like the idea of asking the trader for a certain item & they can have you do whatever job or jobs in order to attain it. Great idea.

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, Rince said:

Aaaah!!! Yesterday found my first beaker!! And not only that, but found FOUR!!

 

It only took me almost dying several times in Dishong Tower in the Winter Biome!! Funny thing, besides the beaker and lots of ammo I didn't got anything noteworthy.

Nothing noteworthy in Dishong Tower? That's disturbing to say the least! Although I guess 4 beakers is noteworthy...

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

With the current meta, I consider this an important skill for every build.

 

Still all that is neither here nor there, my original argument stands. We shouldn't need to.

 

Because it is unfun? A very subjective statement. And you said "for most of us" which means you act as some kind of community speaker, right? Or made a statistically relevant poll among all players? 😁

 

Just teasing.

But game designers, if you ask them, will probably tell you that players need to overcome difficulties, challenges and even "unfun" work so they get a feeling of accomplishment.

 

That is the basis especially of games simulating an open world. You need activities to waste time with and some of them will not be especially fun to some players. For example traveling is often an unfun activity (through known areas at least), but it is necessary as a time sink and to not give the player the ability to be instantly whereever he wants to be, making the open world obsolete.

 

The same is with giving out items he wants. Getting a steel pickaxe on day 1 is surely a way to make the boring task of hitting stones less unfun. But always giving it out on day 1 will not generate fun to the player since he simply takes that for granted. So giving out stuff at random is a way to make progression rewarding as you will be happy when you find an item you desperately need.

 

Probably I couldn't convince you though, so I would like to suggest, again, to use creative mode, but simply before playing a world write down on a piece of paper on which day you should get the beaker and on which day you should have 5 acid. On that day just give yourself those items (if you don't have them already). This is in effect exactly what you wanted, just made possible with a scrap of paper.

 

 

 

 

[ckuebler]

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Getting a steel pickaxe on day 1 is surely a way to make the boring task of hitting stones less unfun.

 

Steel pickaxe on day 1 would be an absolute NIGHTMARE!!  Think of how many hours it would take to swing that thing just to break up a rock cluster.  OMG.  And day 1, with no time to have spent perks on strength or sexual t! 

[Mahnogard]

11 minutes ago, ckuebler said:

 

Steel pickaxe on day 1 would be an absolute NIGHTMARE!!  Think of how many hours it would take to swing that thing just to break up a rock cluster.  OMG.  And day 1, with no time to have spent perks on strength or sexual t! 

Yeah, every time I see someone talk about finding steel tools early, I think, "But how do you use them??" because I can't even use iron that early without stopping to rest every other swing. It wouldn't change my early game much because I'd just be sticking it in a box till I can use it without passing out.  Kind of like when I found that beaker on Day 1 - exciting sure, but building a chem bench is a bit down the road. I could use it in the campfire, but since I don't know how to make the useful items that require it in the campfire...

 

I did find a quality 6 bone knife on Day 2. That was actually impactful. Really improved my chicken-chopping game. 

[meganoth]

28 minutes ago, Mahnogard said:

Yeah, every time I see someone talk about finding steel tools early, I think, "But how do you use them??" because I can't even use iron that early without stopping to rest every other swing. It wouldn't change my early game much because I'd just be sticking it in a box till I can use it without passing out.  Kind of like when I found that beaker on Day 1 - exciting sure, but building a chem bench is a bit down the road. I could use it in the campfire, but since I don't know how to make the useful items that require it in the campfire...

 

I did find a quality 6 bone knife on Day 2. That was actually impactful. Really improved my chicken-chopping game. 

 

Iron tools are less usable with a low strength build than a high level steel axe, at least that was my impression in A19. Sure, you were fast out of air even with only 1 or 2 points in sexrex and (very important) with the coffee buff, but in the meantime you made a lot of damage, and coffee was always easy to get.

 

[RyanX]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:37 AM, DiegoLBC1 said:

Specific item in specifc POIs, but without guarantee maybe?

 

EG: more chance/probability (or no) to find any weapon parts in Messiah.

Way back in the day, you used to have to go to the Working Stiff tools to find calipers to make ammo, and it wasn't guaranteed.

[DominionZA]

Acid and beakers have become extremely rare since this update. I'm on day 67, 30 minute cycles and have only happily bought off my first beaker and two bottles of acid from a trader. You might aswell say you can take up to 100+ days to build a chemistry station at this point.

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Because it is unfun? A very subjective statement. And you said "for most of us" which means you act as some kind of community speaker, right? Or made a statistically relevant poll among all players? 😁

 

Just teasing.

But game designers, if you ask them, will probably tell you that players need to overcome difficulties, challenges and even "unfun" work so they get a feeling of accomplishment.

 

That is the basis especially of games simulating an open world. You need activities to waste time with and some of them will not be especially fun to some players. For example traveling is often an unfun activity (through known areas at least), but it is necessary as a time sink and to not give the player the ability to be instantly whereever he wants to be, making the open world obsolete.

 

The same is with giving out items he wants. Getting a steel pickaxe on day 1 is surely a way to make the boring task of hitting stones less unfun. But always giving it out on day 1 will not generate fun to the player since he simply takes that for granted. So giving out stuff at random is a way to make progression rewarding as you will be happy when you find an item you desperately need.

 

Probably I couldn't convince you though, so I would like to suggest, again, to use creative mode, but simply before playing a world write down on a piece of paper on which day you should get the beaker and on which day you should have 5 acid. On that day just give yourself those items (if you don't have them already). This is in effect exactly what you wanted, just made possible with a scrap of paper.

 

 

 

 

😛

 

I agree there need to be challenges to overcome otherwise yes, you could just use CM (which is fine for when all else fails or a bug hits but is a terrible suggestion in general)

Being a game in general is a time sink, of course there are going to be time sink activities, but they should be either fun or they should be to make you appreciate when you get a way to bypass it (transport or fast travel) or make it easier (better tools/weapons/armor), etc. Being boring or grindy just for the sake of being a time sink is poor design.

 

I agree that just handing the player everything on day 1 is a short term fix that in the long term does nothing good. The bicycle for example is a good guaranteed item. for when it is guaranteed. The player has to do some work for it, since you need to do....what...I lose count...but like 4 or 5 missions to get the next tier. So they've done a fair amount of walking by then. The next tier missions will probably involve even more walking. Likely not found a bicycle or the parts or the money to buy them. So it's very nice to be given the choice of a bike. Is it essential? No, but it sure makes life a lot easier. Now if you want to rush a bike or better on day 1 without questing, the option is there. If you don't want the bike you've got other choices. Considering the minibike is such crap compared to the motorcycle and generally skippable it wouldn't be out of the question as a t2 or 3 reward. Now not everything needs to be handed out, maybe this wouldn't be appropriate for the last 3 vehicles and the player should have to earn them/get lucky.

 

If you can't choose the weapon you get as a reward, there should at least be a bias towards giving you something you have skill points in.

 

You can't convince me, and once again, going into creative is just a lazy suggestion. Game balance is what we're looking for. If the devs won't there's modding.

 

It's funny of course I just got offered a beaker as my final tier 2 quest reward on day 14. I already have one of course. That is the other thing that adds insult to injury so often, you can't find some near-essential item and then suddenly you get a ton of them dumped on you (I found the beaker really early this run). This game I rushed forge on day 1 and so now I have 3 forge recipes sitting in my box. If I actually needed the forge recipe then it would be nowhere to be found.

 

Oh good replies while I was typing that novel above.

Yeah, I think I made a couple glue and 1 batch of paint but that's all the use the early beaker has seen.

 

Agree steel tools would be useless on day1. Iron is doable. I don't feel like it has changed from earlier versions and I think you got it backwards Meganoth.

 

Yeah, I remember the calipers and it sucked balls when you were 100 days in and still couldn't find them.

I didn't use guns much early because of ammo scarcity. Now of course it's out of habit that I mostly beat @%$# with my club and only go for the MG when I get in a jam or just feel the need to mow down a lot of zeds in a hurry. I've got a chest full of ammo not to mention casings & tips piling up. So we go from 1 extreme to another. It is now completely viable to use guns from day 1 as your primary weapon and probably not worry about running out of ammo.

 

I have been lucky with the beakers and the chem bench compared to other people for sure.

[Mahnogard]

26 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Yeah, I think I made a couple glue and 1 batch of paint but that's all the use the early beaker has seen.

You only need the cooking pot for both of these. Thankfully. Because I paint a lot and I've been having a duct tape drought. I chop every corpse block for bones so I can make my own.  

[Krougal]

9 minutes ago, Mahnogard said:

You only need the cooking pot for both of these. Thankfully. Because I paint a lot and I've been having a duct tape drought. I chop every corpse block for bones so I can make my own.  

Huh? They showup under the beaker section.

 

Hmmm...didn't realize the chemicals don't all require the beaker. Ok, so I haven't used it yet, because early game gunpowder and antibiotics aren't something I am making.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Krougal (see edit history)

[fragtzack]

Just hit lvl 54 and finally got a crucible. 

 

I play 33% loot and love it.

 

Why rush to end game..

[Whorhay]

Isn't the Chemstation a guaranteed result of completing seven T3 trader quests? It seems like you can get that bonus multiple times, even from the same trader. So why not just do a bunch of quests? I understand that taking the motorcycle package is mighty tempting but at best that will be worth two acid and some steel, whereas the chem station represents five acid and a beaker. Makes for a pretty clear choice to me, and like I said you can at a minimum go to other traders and quest until you get offered a Chem station for completing the T3's again.

[meganoth]

16 hours ago, Krougal said:

😛

 

I agree there need to be challenges to overcome otherwise yes, you could just use CM (which is fine for when all else fails or a bug hits but is a terrible suggestion in general)

 

Thanks Whoray for the reminder, actually your desire to have guaranteed stuff is already reality in the game. The very overpowered trader completion quest rewards already provide everything you need in the game, you just have to choose the right one where you have an item missing. I think this is a mistake.

 

16 hours ago, Krougal said:

Being a game in general is a time sink, of course there are going to be time sink activities, but they should be either fun or they should be to make you appreciate when you get a way to bypass it (transport or fast travel) or make it easier (better tools/weapons/armor), etc. Being boring or grindy just for the sake of being a time sink is poor design.

 

Well, and if you find a beaker it makes it easier as well (cheaper crafting of ammo allows you to be very generous with it). Do you really deny the value of a chemstation? I just checked by the way, and the only real use for the beaker is for crafting the chem station. The second beaker that you can put into the chem station is entirely superfluous right now, the only recipe depending on it is the antibiotics and by the time you have a chem station infections should not be a problem anymore.

 

If you find scavenging and looting boring and grindy, why are you even playing this game? 😎

 

16 hours ago, Krougal said:

 

I agree that just handing the player everything on day 1 is a short term fix that in the long term does nothing good. The bicycle for example is a good guaranteed item. for when it is guaranteed. The player has to do some work for it, since you need to do....what...I lose count...but like 4 or 5 missions to get the next tier. So they've done a fair amount of walking by then. The next tier missions will probably involve even more walking. Likely not found a bicycle or the parts or the money to buy them. So it's very nice to be given the choice of a bike. Is it essential? No, but it sure makes life a lot easier. Now if you want to rush a bike or better on day 1 without questing, the option is there. If you don't want the bike you've got other choices. Considering the minibike is such crap compared to the motorcycle and generally skippable it wouldn't be out of the question as a t2 or 3 reward. Now not everything needs to be handed out, maybe this wouldn't be appropriate for the last 3 vehicles and the player should have to earn them/get lucky.

 

At least in SP the INT vehicle perks and often the recipes have lost much of their value. You can just get bicycle and better vehicles handed to you for free. In A19 at least you had to give up a perk point to get a bicycle if you weren't lucky with scavenging.

 

16 hours ago, Krougal said:

 

If you can't choose the weapon you get as a reward, there should at least be a bias towards giving you something you have skill points in.

 

You can't convince me, and once again, going into creative is just a lazy suggestion. Game balance is what we're looking for. If the devs won't there's modding.

 

Yes. We adhere to different gaming philosophies. Practically there is no difference between a mod that gives you a guaranteed item and creative mode, subjectively a player needs the illusion he somewhow earned it even if it is inevitable in a way.

 

16 hours ago, Krougal said:

 

It's funny of course I just got offered a beaker as my final tier 2 quest reward on day 14. I already have one of course. That is the other thing that adds insult to injury so often, you can't find some near-essential item and then suddenly you get a ton of them dumped on you (I found the beaker really early this run). This game I rushed forge on day 1 and so now I have 3 forge recipes sitting in my box. If I actually needed the forge recipe then it would be nowhere to be found.

 

Why are they sitting in your box? Reading it gives you a little XP, selling them gives quite a good amount of money.

 

16 hours ago, Krougal said:

 

Oh good replies while I was typing that novel above.

Yeah, I think I made a couple glue and 1 batch of paint but that's all the use the early beaker has seen.

 

Agree steel tools would be useless on day1. Iron is doable. I don't feel like it has changed from earlier versions and I think you got it backwards Meganoth.

 

I was talking about early game. The steel axe might not be right for day 1, but you can keep it and use it on day 5 as well 😉. Anyway, instead of steel tool we can just look at tier3 guns to make the argument work without coffee.

 

16 hours ago, Krougal said:

 

Yeah, I remember the calipers and it sucked balls when you were 100 days in and still couldn't find them.

I didn't use guns much early because of ammo scarcity. Now of course it's out of habit that I mostly beat @%$# with my club and only go for the MG when I get in a jam or just feel the need to mow down a lot of zeds in a hurry. I've got a chest full of ammo not to mention casings & tips piling up. So we go from 1 extreme to another. It is now completely viable to use guns from day 1 as your primary weapon and probably not worry about running out of ammo.

 

I have been lucky with the beakers and the chem bench compared to other people for sure.

 

 

[Krougal]

38 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Thanks Whoray for the reminder, actually your desire to have guaranteed stuff is already reality in the game. The very overpowered trader completion quest rewards already provide everything you need in the game, you just have to choose the right one where you have an item missing. I think this is a mistake.

 

 

Well, and if you find a beaker it makes it easier as well (cheaper crafting of ammo allows you to be very generous with it). Do you really deny the value of a chemstation? I just checked by the way, and the only real use for the beaker is for crafting the chem station. The second beaker that you can put into the chem station is entirely superfluous right now, the only recipe depending on it is the antibiotics and by the time you have a chem station infections should not be a problem anymore.

 

If you find scavenging and looting boring and grindy, why are you even playing this game? 😎

 

 

At least in SP the INT vehicle perks and often the recipes have lost much of their value. You can just get bicycle and better vehicles handed to you for free. In A19 at least you had to give up a perk point to get a bicycle if you weren't lucky with scavenging.

 

 

Yes. We adhere to different gaming philosophies. Practically there is no difference between a mod that gives you a guaranteed item and creative mode, subjectively a player needs the illusion he somewhow earned it even if it is inevitable in a way.

 

 

Why are they sitting in your box? Reading it gives you a little XP, selling them gives quite a good amount of money.

 

 

I was talking about early game. The steel axe might not be right for day 1, but you can keep it and use it on day 5 as well 😉. Anyway, instead of steel tool we can just look at tier3 guns to make the argument work without coffee.

 

 

 

Like I tell my wife, leave the funny stuff to the people who are actually good at it 😛

I never denied the value of the chemstation, you did. I consider it essential. 

Whoray? I think you meant Hooray!

 

I never said scavenging and looting was boring and grindy, I said skills and leveling is boring and grindy, including using stone age tools and weapons...what is this Afghanistan? I get tired of looking at my chests full of materials when I have nothing worthwhile to make.

 

I'm not a big fan of the traders at all to be honest, but they are the current meta. Their addition and turning the game into a dungeon crawl has ruined a lot of it for me. I have come to accept that this is just a different game than what it was originally and right now this is what it is. For what it is, it is pretty decent. I enjoyed the game more when there was only what you could scavenge and what you could craft (and no, I'm not interested in the mod for that, too much of the game has changed to go back).

I also spent longer on a given play through before getting bored. That is probably why I want things sooner, because honestly by the time I've made it to tier5 I'm pretty burnt out and ready to start fresh.

 

Creative mode, creative mode, creative mode. Stop being such a lazy thinker. Yes, the player needs that illusion along with many others, because that's all any game is, an illusion. Nothing breaches the illusion of purpose faster than using CM to give yourself @%$#. 

 

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

Like I tell my wife, leave the funny stuff to the people who are actually good at it 😛

I never denied the value of the chemstation, you did. I consider it essential.

 

You said "of course there are going to be time sink activities, but they should be either ..., or make it easier (better tools/weapons/armor) ". And I'm asking why the chem station does not make it easier? So you have a time sink activity called scavenging/looting that eventually makes it easier by giving you a chem station (and on top can be fun).

 

If by chance you don't get the chem station for a long time I don't see there any grind. You have to buy more ammo from the trader and maybe rely more on traps for your horde night defense, but that's it.

 

Making the chem station drop guaranteed after doing 20 quests for example just means that scavenging a chem station or the recipe becomes meaningless, you will just grind those 20 quests (and this way it will be just grind). I already see some of it in my MP game where we subconciously do quests in wait for the trader completion reward which provides the guaranteed progress. To me a boring linear progression on rails.

 

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

Whoray? I think you meant Hooray!

 

Whorhay is the name of a poster in this thread.

 

 

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

 

I never said scavenging and looting was boring and grindy, I said skills and leveling is boring and grindy, including using stone age tools and weapons...what is this Afghanistan? I get tired of looking at my chests full of materials when I have nothing worthwhile to make.

 

Sure, for some players progression feels to slow. Many of them set xp to 200% or 300% to fast forward.

 

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

 

I'm not a big fan of the traders at all to be honest, but they are the current meta. Their addition and turning the game into a dungeon crawl has ruined a lot of it for me. I have come to accept that this is just a different game than what it was originally and right now this is what it is. For what it is, it is pretty decent. I enjoyed the game more when there was only what you could scavenge and what you could craft (and no, I'm not interested in the mod for that, too much of the game has changed to go back).

I also spent longer on a given play through before getting bored. That is probably why I want things sooner, because honestly by the time I've made it to tier5 I'm pretty burnt out and ready to start fresh.

 

Creative mode, creative mode, creative mode. Stop being such a lazy thinker. Yes, the player needs that illusion along with many others, because that's all any game is, an illusion. Nothing breaches the illusion of purpose faster than using CM to give yourself @%$#. 

 

Well, but so does the knowledge of items you want being guaranteed finds remove the illusion of danger and scarcity and need, essential for a survival and scavenging game.

 

For an extreme example imagine you are in search for one specific item. If you know there is a 10% chance you find it in bags, you will open each bag with anticipation whether it is in it (like with any game of chance). If you know you will get it in the 10th bag guaranteed, you will just grind opening bags and count to 10. The gambling game changed to a grind for 10 bags.

 

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

 

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

 

Merry Christmas.

Edited December 25, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[nostalginator]

Update:   New save.  This is how it's going:

By Day 7 Horde Night, I've found 75 lead weights... and 38 steel-- not from wrenching anything, I legit just looted it.  I have no crucible, and I have yet to loot a recipe that requires steel.  [Second edit:]  I have also looted 6 acid.

You cannot convince me that that's not somehow fundamentally broken.  You just can't.  I'd STILL take a beaker over 38 steel because I know I'll be able to buy a crucible by the time I see one, whereas apparently I have to visit a T5 POI in a winter biome to have a chance of looting a beaker, at which point I will likely loot more than one, for reasons.

Guess I need to grind quests until I finish Tier 3, but why is the beaker even in the game if that's the easiest path to getting a chem station?  I can craft scopes out of broken glass, but not beakers??  Somebody make it make sense.

Edited December 25, 2021 by nostalginator
Clarification of pronoun trouble; added a detail (see edit history)