Pay to Improve instead of Earning it

[BlueButterfly98]

Hey People who Enjoy this Fantastic Game,

 

Was just wondering if the game is going to have a mode that allows you to earn your skills again? I really enjoyed this mechanic, and play the game on A16.4 because of the game changes. I understand that some people can't be bothered to earn the skills and paying should be an option (paying with skill points) but earning it should still be an option. Couldn't find the developer email to ask them, so hoping someone on this thread will refill my hope bar. Unless this has already been implemented (in which case: embarrassment will ensue).

 

Thanks for your time,

7days2die4eva

[GhettoNinjaStar]

Learning by doing was removed in A17 and TFP stated that they will not be going back to that system.

[BlueButterfly98]

Hey,

 

Thanks for the reply. Do you know why this is/was? Or does anyone know a mod that re-implements it?

 

Thanks again

[Cernwn]

Or does anyone know a mod that re-implements it?

 

Haven't tried it myself yet, but best bet is JaxTeller718's Action Skills (Deceptive Adaptation):

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?94906-JaxTeller718-Modlet-Collection

 

or the original it was based upon, Deceptive Pastry's Return of Action Skills:

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?99334-Return-of-Action-Skills-perks-that-level-as-you-use-them-(Test-Release)

 

Asking for the return of LBD (learn by doing) in the wrong forum may bring the banhammer. Too many trolls were demanding their way of the devs, getting abusive and otherwise acting like complete wingnuts over the issue. Just a friendly word of warning.

[BlueButterfly98]

Thankyou so much! I really appreciate you guys for replying so fast, and the people who created this game. And not banning for posting this question in the wrong forum -_-".

 

Thanks again so much for your time

[SylenThunder]

To be fair, the banning had nothing to do with discussion of LBD. It was because people could not refrain from being massive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s, or from violating multiple forum rules.

[Jugginator]

Really, there's no way to balance it. Make it too easy and people become gods in half an hour. Make it middle ground, it takes hours to get decent at one thing when there are 30 + things to get good at. Make it too hard... well, you get everyone entering "giveselfskillxp 9999" because they have to spend half a dozen hours getting good at mining, then suck at everything else so they have to spend half a dozen hours upgrading blocks... then shooting a rifle... then shooting a bow... then standing on a catcus because you'd have to otherwise find a zombie to hit you for half a dozen hours chugging first aid kits standing naked in the snow eating 100,000 bowls of stew to gain HP.

 

It's one of those things that's fun for a little bit, but then you don't want to play anymore because of that. It's still learn by doing. You do anything in the game and get XP, just you choose where to allocate that XP.

[BlueButterfly98]

Hey,

I understand. I'm just one of those people who enjoy games like Skyrim . I'm happy that you're enjoying this great game more now. And to abuse the developers because they changed a feature in their game is bullshirt (but at the same time I understand and am greatly ashamed of my own 'gamer rage'). I never gave myself the exp console cheat (but I did edit the files to have 10,000 stacks of everything (not the actual item but the item slot) as well as make zombies a little slower and make it so they couldn't climb ladders. I also mostly stayed underground creating a giant bunker and tunnels as well as the customary emergency exit. Another reason I love this game is the ability to tunnel underground).

[Scyris]

Learning by doing was removed in A17 and TFP stated that they will not be going back to that system.

 

Still think it was the biggest mistake they made so far myself. Most people were happy with the system they just needed to tweak it a bit, mainly remove crafting quality/tier being linked to it. Instead we now have what we do now, a system that makes little sense at all.

[SylenThunder]

Instead we now have what we do now, a system that makes little sense at all.

This makes very little actual sense since the system we have now is extremely common in many games. It makes perfect sense. It's just not what you want is all.

[Jugginator]

Hey,

I understand. I'm just one of those people who enjoy games like Skyrim . I'm happy that you're enjoying this great game more now. And to abuse the developers because they changed a feature in their game is bullshirt (but at the same time I understand and am greatly ashamed of my own 'gamer rage'). I never gave myself the exp console cheat (but I did edit the files to have 10,000 stacks of everything (not the actual item but the item slot) as well as make zombies a little slower and make it so they couldn't climb ladders. I also mostly stayed underground creating a giant bunker and tunnels as well as the customary emergency exit. Another reason I love this game is the ability to tunnel underground).

 

 

Oh yeah for sure, not saying I don't like it, but just in games like Morrowind/Skyrim it just works better ya know. You got skill trainers and all of that and it doesn't really matter if you suck at it or not if that makes sense lol. Being a survival game that's selling point is it wants to kill you (and how much of a grind it is vs Morrowind/Skyrim) it just gets old doing that. I agree there lol, I like your attitude!

 

Yeah I love they let zombies dig again, I like me underground stuff too, but I also like zombies to have a chance to get me haha

[Scyris]

This makes very little actual sense since the system we have now is extremely common in many games. It makes perfect sense. It's just not what you want is all.

 

Other games usually have some sort of explanation for the perk system the way it is though, like the main char had military training or something of the sort. 7dtd however has none, your char has no background or anything in the games lore, your just a almost corpse on the side of the road, a almost corpse that apparently pissed off the big badness in navezgane, due to a money debt.

[BlueButterfly98]

Hey,

I understand, and I always try and have a good attitude. I suffer from on and off again depression, and games like this really help me focus and allow me to actually feel happy. Game developers like this changed my life and a game like this never fails to brighten up my day. And btw, I play like I probably would in an actual zombie apocalypse (crafting and hiding lol). It's easier to grind skills because of my minor modding and my prefered playstyle (coward play).

[Scyris]

Hey,

I understand, and I always try and have a good attitude. I suffer from on and off again depression, and games like this really help me focus and allow me to actually feel happy. Game developers like this changed my life and a game like this never fails to brighten up my day. And btw, I play like I probably would in an actual zombie apocalypse (crafting and hiding lol). It's easier to grind skills because of my minor modding and my prefered playstyle (coward play).

 

Learn by doing was the last time 7dtd to me had any real sense of progression, you used sledgehammers, you got better at using them you got perks to improve them farther. Unlike now where I can go kill zombies with a knife, then put point into sledgehammers and now suddnedly i'm better with a sledge than a knife when I never touched a sledge before. It makes NO sense. Its the same with mining tools, I go out kill a ton of zombies, magically spend points, suddendly i'm am a godly miner never having mined before. Thats what I mean by it lacks any real sense of progression anymore. In a16.4 as you upped skill in say sledge hammers, your swings hit harder, used less stamina, and had their chance of their secondary effects procing more, and then you had the perks that added on top of this.

 

I'll always feel them removing LBD was a huge step backwards in the game, one they will probally never recover from. Ark survival evolved has a simmlar perk system, but theirs make sense.. why? you have that implant on your wrist, thats like a pc terminal that can download the data to make the things into your head, so it makes more sense than say 7dtd where your char just pulls it out of their ass when you spend a perk point.

[Jeraal]

This makes very little actual sense since the system we have now is extremely common in many games. It makes perfect sense. It's just not what you want is all.

 

When I read that, I thought "That's exactly the problem". For me, the game was great before A17. Now, it is becoming just another common game.

[GhettoNinjaStar]

Learn by doing was the last time 7dtd to me had any real sense of progression, you used sledgehammers, you got better at using them you got perks to improve them farther. Unlike now where I can go kill zombies with a knife, then put point into sledgehammers and now suddnedly i'm better with a sledge than a knife when I never touched a sledge before. It makes NO sense. Its the same with mining tools, I go out kill a ton of zombies, magically spend points, suddendly i'm am a godly miner never having mined before. Thats what I mean by it lacks any real sense of progression anymore. In a16.4 as you upped skill in say sledge hammers, your swings hit harder, used less stamina, and had their chance of their secondary effects procing more, and then you had the perks that added on top of this.

 

I'll always feel them removing LBD was a huge step backwards in the game, one they will probally never recover from. Ark survival evolved has a simmlar perk system, but theirs make sense.. why? you have that implant on your wrist, thats like a pc terminal that can download the data to make the things into your head, so it makes more sense than say 7dtd where your char just pulls it out of their ass when you spend a perk point.

 

If I wanted a real life style grindfest then I'd go play real life, but I don't so I play video games.

 

The current system allows a more fluid gameplay experience. I actually like that there is no backstory or "magic computer wristband". I build the character I want and his story and why he progresses the way he does is all up to me.

 

 

Honestly, if you have a problem with a game scrapping whole systems you should stay away from early access/alphas.

[BlueButterfly98]

Learn by doing was the last time 7dtd to me had any real sense of progression, you used sledgehammers, you got better at using them you got perks to improve them farther. Unlike now where I can go kill zombies with a knife, then put point into sledgehammers and now suddnedly i'm better with a sledge than a knife when I never touched a sledge before. It makes NO sense. Its the same with mining tools, I go out kill a ton of zombies, magically spend points, suddendly i'm am a godly miner never having mined before. Thats what I mean by it lacks any real sense of progression anymore. In a16.4 as you upped skill in say sledge hammers, your swings hit harder, used less stamina, and had their chance of their secondary effects procing more, and then you had the perks that added on top of this.

 

I'll always feel them removing LBD was a huge step backwards in the game, one they will probally never recover from. Ark survival evolved has a simmlar perk system, but theirs make sense.. why? you have that implant on your wrist, thats like a pc terminal that can download the data to make the things into your head, so it makes more sense than say 7dtd where your char just pulls it out of their ass when you spend a perk point.

 

Hey,

I agree with your logic. But I also understand people not being bothered. Skill grinding always made sense to me and it felt like major cheating to pay for the skills or using a skill trainer. This is coming from a person who actively uses cheats in most games lol. Anyway, I'm going to try out a mod mentioned above, and also a mod for zombies drop loot again as well as a better HUD mod. If those don't work, I'll just play 16.4 again and feel sad or maybe play Skyrim again. Anyways, thanks for your time and all the replies and the answers to my problem (hopefully).

Regards,

[SickPuppy]

Yer I miss lbd too but devs were clear it's not coming back. End of the day u gotta respect it's their game, might not like it but at least it's open for modding.

[Roland]

Learn by doing was the last time 7dtd to me had any real sense of progression, you used sledgehammers, you got better at using them you got perks to improve them farther. Unlike now where I can go kill zombies with a knife, then put point into sledgehammers and now suddnedly i'm better with a sledge than a knife when I never touched a sledge before. It makes NO sense.

 

But with the current system you can play it the way you feel makes sense. Don't put points into sledgehammer until you've used the sledgehammer. If it is jarring to kill with a knife exclusively and then put points into sledgehammer don't do it. Put the points into blades. The current system gives you the freedom to play the game the way LBD passively enforced or to do whatever you want. There is absolutely no reason you can't play in a way that makes perfect sense to you unless there are other motivating factors that are more important to you than strictly following a learn by doing purchasing plan for your perks.

 

 

Its the same with mining tools, I go out kill a ton of zombies, magically spend points, suddendly i'm am a godly miner never having mined before. Thats what I mean by it lacks any real sense of progression anymore. In a16.4 as you upped skill in say sledge hammers, your swings hit harder, used less stamina, and had their chance of their secondary effects procing more, and then you had the perks that added on top of this.

 

It is the same with mining tools. You CAN avoid mining and just kill zombies and then spend those points on mining and then raise your fist to the heavens and curse the gods......or......you could spend a day mining and then spend points on mining upping your block damage and harvest yields. There is nothing stopping you from playing the way you want the game to feel except.....you.

 

The current system provides the freedom to play in an LBD-like style or to in a spend-however-you-like style. The only difference is that it is accomplished consciously through role play rather than passively with no choice to do differently. I always make it a point to do a bit of the activity I plan to spend my points in before I spend the points. Perhaps I did earn those points killing zombies but if I spend half a day mining and then spend a point on mining I successfully role play that my mining skills improved through doing.

 

 

I'll always feel them removing LBD was a huge step backwards in the game, one they will probally never recover from.

 

The current system has much more freedom if your willing to play it the way you claim to want (and if it is as important to you as you say it is then why wouldn't you?) You can play the game in an LBD style by choosing to do relevant activities before you spend the points. They aren't even wasted activities either because they do earn xp themselves and are often helpful to your survival as well. As for them recovering.....they already have and then some. They are back to smashing records with A18 and it looks to have real staying power week to week so far.

 

I agree that most probably liked LBD but that doesn't mean that they all hate this new system. I liked LBD just fine and I also like the perk purchasing system. From what I can tell most people also like the new system and even if not as much-- they like it well enough.

[Hollowprime]

Ain't coming back. I loved it, I still love it in all the survival games that use it . Zomboid uses both a level by doing system and a skill system which I think is another way for the devs to see it.

 

But judging by this game's road map or the lack of thereof is disappointing .

[BlueButterfly98]

Yer I miss lbd too but devs were clear it's not coming back. End of the day u gotta respect it's their game, might not like it but at least it's open for modding.

 

Hey,

Totally agree, doesn't mean I won't look back with sad face and grabby hands lol. And, like I mentioned, mods .

[Ghostlight]

Really, there's no way to balance it. Make it too easy and people become gods in half an hour. Make it middle ground, it takes hours to get decent at one thing when there are 30 + things to get good at. Make it too hard... well, you get everyone entering "giveselfskillxp 9999" because they have to spend half a dozen hours getting good at mining, then suck at everything else so they have to spend half a dozen hours upgrading blocks... then shooting a rifle... then shooting a bow... then standing on a catcus because you'd have to otherwise find a zombie to hit you for half a dozen hours chugging first aid kits standing naked in the snow eating 100,000 bowls of stew to gain HP.

 

Whereas implement it in a sensible way with diminishing returns so that you can improve rapidly at first but then it becomes harder to get much better at something you are already good at, and it can feel fantastic, organic, very immersive and rewarding.

 

 

 

 

Still think it was the biggest mistake they made so far myself.

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

This makes very little actual sense since the system we have now is extremely common in many games. It makes perfect sense. It's just not what you want is all.

 

So I can dig a mine all day, level up and then become better at cooking. How exactly does this make sense?

[Ghostlight]

But with the current system you can play it the way you feel makes sense. Don't put points into sledgehammer until you've used the sledgehammer. If it is jarring to kill with a knife exclusively and then put points into sledgehammer don't do it. Put the points into blades.

 

So for it to make sense or satisfy us we have to impose artificial limitations on the way we play. That's not a great place to be imo. Also your suggestion doesn't work since there is no way for me to level up by cooking and only then put a point in Masterchef.

 

The problem is that we had LBD for ages, and many of us loved it. We got spoiled basically. Had the bland, casual-friendly system we have now been in play from the start we'd not be complaining. To quote the words of the song by James:

 

"If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor"

[Ghostlight]

I agree that most probably liked LBD but that doesn't mean that they all hate this new system. I liked LBD just fine and I also like the perk purchasing system. From what I can tell most people also like the new system and even if not as much-- they like it well enough.

 

Oh I don't hate it as such. But I find it bland, silly, generic, boring , unimmersive and unsatisfying.

 

Also I just built my first Gyrocopter, took off for the first time, then promptly pressed 'E' when trying to remember how to point the nose down. And the fall killed me, so I'm in a BAD MOOD. Grrr

[Hyperbolt]

In another post i made i proposed an idea of making a separate tab for action skills next to the attributes and the skillbooks. These skills would cover the weapon-types and some other skills. They would give minor bonuses and not be linked to any perks, so you dont need to grind any specific task just to spend perk points associated to them.

 

This way, you would be able to spec points freely just like we do now, but it would still feel a little more rewarding when focusing on a specific task.

 

I really miss that dopamine rush you got when you saw the "your skill in xxx has increased to x". xD