Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

That's rather sad and it looks like that won't be something I will invest in as a single player guy which saddens me.

 

I really didn't expect to be forced into another build.

 

You and others may say I'm not but with the monotonous tedium that accompanies very basic looting thanks to the annoying 'every house a dungeon' setup I will be left probably not playing the game very much at all.

 

Intelligence builds giving only mediocre 'middle of the road' items takes away a vast amount of the fun and the point of levelling for it. That, along with super nerfed exp and mixed builds, with little to no looting and the necessity of a rather strong base build to protect you from those hordes does not sound appealing enough to put my backside in my seat snd start this up.

 

The poster who mentioned what seems like appeasement of a smaller group of people who demand a bigger challenge, as well as another who pointed out the obvious need for a different setup for SP over MP, both had it exactly right about these decisions which impact everyone - and I don't think it's a wise idea.

 

I'd suggest:

 

The intelligence build guy who gets to make better gear has to suffer a long time without them unless he loots something good.

 

The strength and defense spec guy is built tanky enough to enjoy the possibility of great loot earlier game but wont enjoy the ability of being able to make his own good stuff later on should he lose his bag and weapond to zombies or other players.

 

That sounds a lot better than it is now, which is strength/def (or stealth) favours looters - and forces those who dont want to go into convoluted POIs to do so, and those who mine and grind for the grand ability to finally be able to craft 'average' products as a badly hit Int build - out of their chosen playstyle and into situations that impede, rather than enhance their gaming experience.

 

Note:

 

I just shed some tears of laughter among my metaphorical tears of sadness at the intelligence build guy who makes 'medium items' at the top of his game being referred to as a 'Quantum physicist.' 😂

First of all the int guy doesn't craft anything with quality except for his specialized weapons, like junk turrets and stun batons. All crafting is governed by the perk that governs the item. Before int was required, now its not, its as simple as that. So int guys are not "crafters", they are int guys. Everyone is a crafter in A18. The shotgun guy crafts great shotguns, the smg guy crafts great smgs. The best is in loot because its really poor game play to sit on your ass and make the best gear possible, that was great for a 20 hour game, now we have a 100 to 200 hour game for average guys and a 14000 hour game for the serious enthusiasts out there.

 

Your tears feel premature, you don't even comprehend the system and haven't played it.

[madmole]

I would lose respect for myself. I don’t know if I like it or not. If traps don’t always set them off, then they would easily be my favorite.

 

I would say its unlikely for a trap to set off the bomb, but who knows yet. It didn't happen in my play through and there was a demolisher right there by my turret.

[madmole]

Stating this for a friend...

 

Can we have some larger POI dungeons with multiple paths in the future? One more straight forward path with a crap ton of zombies to fight through, but also one (or more) paths that are more stealth compatible. It would be fun to fight through a few battles, but if ammo gets sucked up you can switch to the stealth route through part of it. I could see this being a thing for one of the Skyscraper POIs.

 

Nothing prevents you from going back to a stealth mode once you kill/lose the current aggressors.

[madmole]

MM, don't know if you have answered this yet or care to, but I for one would love to see a walk through of your base after the last horde night. I, as well as many others I am sure, are also wondering how those zeds were getting behind you.

 

Its already fixed (mostly) and I'm working on a new horde base.

[madmole]

Like I said, who says that electric fences might trigger the demolisher's explosives? Maybe only projectiles do?

 

Why not just lure the demolisher away from your base and set him off somewhere off yonder? You'll be able to outrun all the zombies anyway. Just saying.

 

Most players a scared ♥♥♥♥less to jump into the mash pit.

[madmole]

Going to play devils advocate here. I would like to see another horde night like you had last time with the damage the demolishers do set to what you think they should be *(Just saw faatals post below where he says it is gone from 200 to 5000)*. You did say they didn't do enough damage. With damage increased and if you get a similar amount of them as you did before I dont think there would have been much left to the area of the base you were fighting in. I would guess you would have lost a lot of your work area and the crates that were in it. I really do want to see what we will be up against when we reach the gamestage to get that many of them.

 

I'd never have a base like that if I'd have respected the zombies, but my memories were weak sauce A16 ai, and tbh some weak sauce early hordes for A18. I'd mow them all down by 11 pm early game. So I got tired of that and had gazz increase the total alive, and the first time I experienced that was on the day 77 video I released, it was awesome, but disappointed the demolisher didn't spawn. So day 84 was my first look and the worlds first look at the demolisher and I didn't like him not destroying all my crates and thought he was too easy, for a super late game enemy 84 hours into a session.

 

That said, I'm building a base with a new respect for the latest version of A18 and I will record the video with these new exploding demolishers. With a single tower I'll be able to mow them down before they get close IMO, but we'll see. The problem is building a new base and gathering all the mats I need to have 3000+ rounds for this horde, its going to be tricky to say the least.

[madmole]

We already know what triggers Joel:

LBD, release date requests, mocking the quest markers, and complaints about water... and milk

 

Milk Drinker...

[FA_Q2]

Hen MM,

I don't see any mention of AI changes on the first post and have not seen any discussion on it. Has there been any significant changes in zed pathing and behavior in 18?

 

- - - Updated - - -

Bows are under agility/stealth. Perception is sniper rifles, explosives and spears.

 

Does agility have a melee option?

 

We already know what triggers Joel:

LBD, release date requests, mocking the quest markers, and complaints about water... and milk

 

Considering no LBD is mentioned TWICE in the OP, ya, that is triggering

[madmole]

Except I don't need to play it to know that, MadMole addressed me directly and stated that a full intelligence build allows player made items of middle of the road quality.

 

If I want better weapons that means I cannot play as I wish, which is basic looting, mining, and taking on zombies at my leisure with a heavy focus on crafting and farming, because I am going to need a decent enough str/def build even with basic melee weapons just to get the better defense loot.

 

Which means more than basic looting. Which means looting POIs. Which restates my point.

 

All the while spending precious levelling points on some things that I do NOT want and all for the neccessity of getting where I do want to be. Which is INT. Which is now sounding like something I don't want because of the medium level weaponry at the top of the tier. Comprende?

 

Of course I will try it but from what information I've seen, I don't see this as a very good setup. And may I remind you - I play single player. I'm in favour of the previous posters adjustments between SP/MP to rid us of at least some of the tedium.

 

If you want to be an INT guy be one. You don't need a damn thing from any other attribute to be awesome at killing zeds with the two weapons it governs. If you watched my video you noticed 1000's of shotgun rounds and 9mm bullets that I just found, because I've never fired a pistol or shotgun this entire play through. You specialize in the style you like and accel at it. I do 300% head damage with fists and ak's/m60s why would I use inferior guns to my character build? If you want to be an INT player use the junk turret and a stun baton, you will do very well. You'll barter and be guaranteed every tech unlock. Its a good build. You can augment with other attributes but none if it is needed, we had testers play pure builds. There are ways around ever "but I want to" you can come up with in A18.

[madmole]

Now I see! THAT'S how you get so much ammo!

So brass is now good in A18. I'm going to guess this is why a person wants to explore ALL of a POI. Its like you guys planned that!

 

Very clever MM.

 

I was tired of not being able to find mines, I dug for 3 hours and no ore, in multiple locations (3 hours each). Rage-redesigned mining, now it works great. What you see on the surface is what you get. Brass is in abundance in POIS and more abundant with special perks. Yes its a prefect combination to support guys who want to use guns a lot more. I still conserve ammo because of my 16 zombie at night setitng for hordes, you normal players won't need half the ammo I blow through.

[madmole]

Just curious, will we still be getting conglomerations of ore types underground in the same location every so often (ex. in A17, you might find a gravel patch that might direct you to an underground iron, coal, and lead deposit), or will the game in A18 only generate one type of ore per given area?

 

The special boulder on the surface tells what you will get digging down. However as I've dug in my mines I often run into a 2nd ore so its like a nice bonus. My original iron mine in my back yard turned into a coal mine recently, I loved that!

[madmole]

This is fantastic 😁

 

Do you think it would be possible, as an option, to extend this to the player not being targetted unless seen by default as the blood moon starts?

 

Even if not this is still a great change.

 

No they need to GPS to you until you die the first time, so that fear is always a thing. MAYBE a top tier stealth perk.

[CannedSmeef]

If you want to be an INT guy be one. You don't need a damn thing from any other attribute to be awesome at killing zeds with the two weapons it governs. If you watched my video you noticed 1000's of shotgun rounds and 9mm bullets that I just found, because I've never fired a pistol or shotgun this entire play through. You specialize in the style you like and accel at it. I do 300% head damage with fists and ak's/m60s why would I use inferior guns to my character build? If you want to be an INT player use the junk turret and a stun baton, you will do very well. You'll barter and be guaranteed every tech unlock. Its a good build. You can augment with other attributes but none if it is needed, we had testers play pure builds. There are ways around ever "but I want to" you can come up with in A18.

 

I love this, this is what frustrated me a lot about A17. I really didn't like being bottle necked and essentially forced to all-in intelligence, it was the only real way to make technological progress. Whenever my friend and I played A17 we had to agree on who was doing what, I was always the Intelligence guy because I was going to craft most of the stuff anyway. As a result I was much weaker at everything else in the game and he was the only one who got to actually build combat stuff. It's even worse when you're by yourself, you must build intellect, there's no one else to carry your lack of crafting knowledge.

 

Thank you for making each tree its own unique way of play. Do you think there will be new trees added in the future? More perks within each tree?

[madmole]

This will be interesting. A couple of thoughts come to mind.

 

1) Will there need to be something that teaches the player to know they don't have to run back into the fray or perhaps it will be intuitive enough....For example, "oh crap I died......let me sit still for a minute to collect my tears.....oh hey they are not coming after me again????"

 

2) What incentive will there be to re-engage the BM horde? Zombie XP probably won't be enough. Maybe introduce unique loot drops from blood moon spawns (i.e. collection quest item, faction rep. gain, higher chance of higher quality items, etc.). Otherwise, many players may choose to just sit it out and because there is more risk then reward.

 

1, We could do a belt message that says "stay hidden and they might not find you".

2,Ummm redemption? I have 2 backup m60's and ak's in my chest, if I die its not over until I obviously think I don't have a good chance to kill them. Like I want the exp and to get some payback. Maybe I can clear them from my bag and get my gear back right away too. If I was out of ammo and no backup guns, I'd hide in the shadows or go mine the rest of the night. Either way players have choices with this change. (which isn't in yet btw)

[madmole]

From what I read and believe, When you craft an item it's quality is determined by the items main point. Each weapon item type is governed by some perk in the strength, intelligence, fortitude, agility or perception tree. For instance, the shock sticks are controlled by a perk in the intelligence tree and Bows are governed by a perk in the perception tree. Now, when you craft an item, it can only have a max quality of 5, to get a quality 6 item, you must find them. Also, items that are found have random stats like say 10 to 20 damage on them, while the crafted item of the same quality level will only have static stats like a damage of 15. If you want the best items, you must find them but you can still craft decent items that may be better than anything you have thus far found.

 

Bows are under agility/stealth. Perception is sniper rifles, explosives and spears.

[madmole]

Hi faatal!

 

Appreciate all your hard work (and all the devs) to give us this wonderful game!

 

Would it be possible, to have the "mandatory" explosion on death be an XML attribute in the demolisher entity definition?

 

The reason I ask, is that having a "non stoppable" explosion is a huge difference to game play and hordes, and one that I fear will have huge issues with base building. It might be just fine, but you can imagine having a few demolishers exploding in your base dealing 5k damage, where you'll see bases crumble, storage lost, and basically either way generate hours of cleanup. And this without a way to actually kill them such as through headshots and avoiding it.

 

A simple "explode on death" true/false would solve that, allowing the community to play around with this setting. Heck, I'd include that in the cop as well, so we could see how it'd affect cops always exploding regardless of fa(a)tal damage or not.

 

The same goes for the detonation time delay. Putting in XML would allow players and modders a hugely more effective way to make changes.

 

Maybe on a more advanced, even an attribute as to "explosion on death" property to specify "demolisher/cop" allowing us to easily mod other zombie entities to have the same explosion potential. But anyway, just an on/off for the mandatory explosion would be sufficient for a basic approach!

 

(This of course if he always explode on death as I understood, if not, and you can actually terminally damage him and prevent headshots then it's more like cops and it's fine

 

/Vedui

You can always search and replace the demolisher with trader Jens and have her do a dance

 

IMO build some more walls, get creative and play the damn game. This talk of changing it before you even try to beat it sickens me. If he blows up he died, the threat is over. Is your base design so fragile that one hole is game over for you? Maybe I'm misreading you and you want to make everyone blow up, lol. Anyhow if its horrible we'll change it. I'm sure everyone will be watching my next video to see if I get destroyed lol.

[madmole]

That's an idea. We can just coat the outside of our walls in a layer or two of forest ground to minimize the explosion from the Demolisher. (madmole, if you're reading this, please move on; nothing to see here)

 

I'm all for innovation and thinking outside the box on how to deal with the game, that is what makes it fun.

[madmole]

Acknowledging that Dying Light's animations were planned from the onset, it's nice to know the interactive animations are on you and the other TFPs radar. I appreciate the amount of work that goes into such animations. The feedback payoff makes for awesomely engaging combat. For example, Doom's glory kills.

 

In 7 Days, besides building and looting, the other activity players do a ton of is killing zeds. With A18, building and looting (especially looting) is getting even more engaging. It would be great to see some interactive animations added (in future alphas) to whatever degree possible to similarly increase engagement of moment to moment combat.

 

I think the upcoming raging zombies is a step in that direction. The past addition of persistent arrows and dismemberment are also appreciated.

 

The animation team is growing and we're excited to see things get polished. A18 is just the tip of the spear I expect to see a lot more cool stuff moving forward but A18 feels better than any previous build in terms of combat animations, sounds, feeling, glancing blows etc.

[madmole]

@madmole

 

Love your last video. Congrats for staying alive! Although I must say, you choose hardcore tactic with opening and closing doors while reloading a gun. I think demolisher should do a bit more damage though. It was like 3 or 4 of them that explode in your base, next to the chem station, and chem station was still staying there. It should be gone imho, and your crates at least should get strong damage, or be gone as well (the closest one). I know you already lost gyro, but imho if we allow demolisher (or 2 of them) to explode inside our base, we should bare the consequense of it:)

 

Yes we increased block damage from 200 to 5000, so if one gets in my crafting room again, it will all be gone.

[Aldranon]

Milk Drinker...

 

Damn milk drinkers!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29037[/ATTACH]

 

Get off you lazy ass and chop me some wood!

[Lukeirot]

If you want to be an INT guy be one. You don't need a damn thing from any other attribute to be awesome at killing zeds with the two weapons it governs.

 

You assume the people who have been point dumping into int the last 2 builds do it because they want to be so super good at killing zombies. I did it so I could be the crafting guy in MP so others didn't need points in int. You have removed the crafter as a player option and replaced it with another combat roll. That isn't what I and probably many other people wanted from int. For us we were just told to our face, "♥♥♥♥ you, you are a combat guy now no ifs ands or butts and if you don't it well suck it" I stand by A16 have the better mix between crafting and looting. It took so long to get better stuf and there were more levels of quality between items if you had found a 600 item it felt like substantial upgrade and because it took so long to get crafting up both looting and crafting felt worth it.

 

honestly at this point if you don't want people crafting things just remove crafting and don't ♥♥♥♥ us around, it's just rude at that point.

[Dark_Corvid]

The animation team is growing and we're excited to see things get polished. A18 is just the tip of the spear I expect to see a lot more cool stuff moving forward but A18 feels better than any previous build in terms of combat animations, sounds, feeling, glancing blows etc.

 

Ah yes, the glancing blows! I forgot about that. Very much looking forward to 18 and beyond in terms of immersive combat.

[wolfbain5]

I didn't go that long with my agility guy his save game got rekt, but his magnum was brutal, the last shot did double damage and with AP rounds he could do some nice damage. He gets the SMG which is now a tier 3 weapon and not a piece of crap. So when things get nasty he can do pretty well with it. Also he has access to exploding arrows/bolts so I think he would do ok. Obviously horde night is not his strength, but the rest of the week he's a ghost silently wrecking everything.

 

so bow/crossbow may not be a viable long term build then unless we avoid horde nights. doesn't sound promising. I know people were complaining about things like brass being against gun bunnies, but this may slant things too far the other direction. but I will have to reserve my opinion until I give it a good run.

 

 

crossbow is covered by agility?

 

is archery perks getting love or a book series? like quick draw, rapid reload, or multishot? using old d&d terms

[wolfbain5]

I was tired of not being able to find mines, I dug for 3 hours and no ore, in multiple locations (3 hours each). Rage-redesigned mining, now it works great. What you see on the surface is what you get. Brass is in abundance in POIS and more abundant with special perks. Yes its a prefect combination to support guys who want to use guns a lot more. I still conserve ammo because of my 16 zombie at night setitng for hordes, you normal players won't need half the ammo I blow through.

 

that was 16 alive, I currently play 32 or 64. perhaps I will need to scale back a wee bit

[rdunham3]

Yes we increased block damage from 200 to 5000, so if one gets in my crafting room again, it will all be gone.

 

I feel like it's right up there with the Zombieland rules...don't fight where you craft.