PurgatoryWolf Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hello! I had a few thoughts I wanted to share. Just some things that sort of bug me. Why don't Can of Boiled Water stack? This takes up so much room, and making cooking it take forever because you have to constantly check on it to empty the output and add new cans. Could you please Move Chat window higher to the corner? Where it is now is so very much in the way! I've wanted this for a long time now, could you allow Forges & Campfires to have lockable tools. (so people can use your forge / campfire but not be able to steal your anvil or cooking pot) Put Bookcase back into the Paint Menu! LCBs should prevent loot containers from respawning loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzalicious Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Customizable UI would be better. Also you mispelled Suggestions Purg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Ssuggestions Isss.....isss it really you after all thessse yearsss!?? -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 All good ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I'm guessing cans don't stack because they'd be less convenient to carry with as they don't have a lid/cover. Purified water stacking to 15 while murky water stacks to 500?....that's gotta' be a balance thing. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy83 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I think they don't stack because they are a redundant item now, maybe in previous alphas it added challenge early game, now you get instant bottled water so it makes no sense to carry them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadamier Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Stacking items has been an issue for the longest.... I mean think about the Iron Ore for one... You can carry 6000 iron ore... Now it all depends upon what TFP is talking about because the entire 'iron' making process is a bit complicated and extreme compared to the game. From this source (they all basically say the same): "To create a ton of pig iron, you start with 2 tons (1.8 metric tons) of ore, 1 ton of coke (0.9 metric tons) and a half ton (0.45 metric tons) of limestone. The fire consumes 5 tons (4.5 metric tons) of air. The temperature at the core of the blast furnace reaches nearly 3,000 degrees F (about 1,600 degrees C). Pig iron contains 4 to 5 percent carbon and is so hard and brittle that it's almost useless. If you want to do anything with it, you have three options. First, you can melt it, mix it with slag and hammer it out to eliminate most of the carbon (down to 0.3 percent) and create strong, malleable wrought iron. The second option is to melt the pig iron and combine it with scrap iron, smelt out impurities and add alloys to form cast iron. This metal contains 2 to 4 percent carbon, along with quantities of silicon, manganese and trace impurities. Cast iron, as the name implies, is typically cast into molds to form a wide variety of parts and products." So 'technically speaking' it seems we do the pig iron thing as we're whacking on the rocks lol So just that entire process of making iron has been changed... Technically and 'scientifically' it doesn't matter because this is a game... But the water bottle thing is no different than the canned water... Presumably the same size container, just a different type and your limited to 15 with the canned type whereas the bottle is 500? This is why I've adjusted the Stacknumber of items in every game we play. There is a modlet that changes them all to 30k but that's extreme. I mean if you need another instance... You can carry 250 of any type of trophy... But only limited to 5 radiators! "Everyone" should at least be able to relate to the trophy thing, some trophies are small and others like 2 or 3 feet high and higher!!! I'd like to see anyone carrying 250 trophies down the street LOL I think the entire brass limitation thing isn't 'right' in that if you actually think about it - there is copper everywhere!!! Power transfer lines from the utilities to your house, power lines within your house, every electrical component has copper! In business and industrial buildings there are literally thousands of 'miles' of copper wire. I see this on many sites for copper itself and copper is a large percentage of brass: An average multifamily unit uses 278 pounds of copper: 125 pounds – building wire 82 pounds – plumbing tube, fittings, valves 20 pounds – plumbers’ brass goods 38 pounds – built-in appliances 6 pounds – builders hardware 7 pounds – other wire and tube Brass is an entirely whole process like iron... "A wrought brass containing usually about 70 percent copper and 30 percent zinc and having sufficient ductility and other properties to stand the severe mechanical treatment necessary in making cartridge cases." This is why I like mods like WotW's and Starvation. The ability to make brass is similar to making iron and steel. Adding zinc and copper and the other ones for brass, iron and steel would be logical. So it doesn't matter much - just a few more ores to gather, few more blocks/items to add and it adds yet another step for making brass... Back in Alpha 15.2? Some where around there 'we' ran out of brass and had to convert over to shotguns... It was day 273 or so... 9 of us. Then there have been proposals to have spent casing catchers, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limdood Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 simply put, canned water doesn't stack for balance. boiling a jar of water requires a pot, boiling a can doesn't. This means that given ANY water or snow source and 8 small stones, you can turn your starting can of chili into SAFE drinking water....but only at the cost of an inventory slot. If you manage to find a cooking pot, you can make up to 15 (safe) water in a single slot. Boiled cans of water require less, are available earlier, so the gameplay drawback given to them is that they take up more inventory space to carry more than one. It's gameplay balance, pure and simple. ---------------------------------------------------------- As far as bottled murky water goes...it needs to stack to the same amount as empty jars, since you can hold a stack of empty jars and right clock on a water source to fill them all. If murky water had a smaller stack size, then attempting to fill a full stack of jars could theoretically explode full stacks of murky water out of you if they couldn't fit into your inventory. Again, its done for gameplay reasons to streamline the gaming down a bit. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either of those reasons, but logically those are incredibly likely to be the reasons those two design decisions were made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Then there have been proposals to have spent casing catchers, etc... That's an idea that ~needs~ to be pushed. It's perfect as a weapon mod. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Water should stack even less. Just so many glasses that an average day of adventuring requires. if the player wants more water in the inventory, he should have to use up another slot. ... and food should definitely spoil after some time.. having enough to serve hunger its really a non issue after the first few days. Food that does not spoil should have some lower quality / negative effect like congestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 simply put, canned water doesn't stack for balance. boiling a jar of water requires a pot, boiling a can doesn't. This means that given ANY water or snow source and 8 small stones, you can turn your starting can of chili into SAFE drinking water....but only at the cost of an inventory slot. If you manage to find a cooking pot, you can make up to 15 (safe) water in a single slot. Boiled cans of water require less, are available earlier, so the gameplay drawback given to them is that they take up more inventory space to carry more than one. It's gameplay balance, pure and simple. ---------------------------------------------------------- As far as bottled murky water goes...it needs to stack to the same amount as empty jars, since you can hold a stack of empty jars and right clock on a water source to fill them all. If murky water had a smaller stack size, then attempting to fill a full stack of jars could theoretically explode full stacks of murky water out of you if they couldn't fit into your inventory. Again, its done for gameplay reasons to streamline the gaming down a bit. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either of those reasons, but logically those are incredibly likely to be the reasons those two design decisions were made. Yeah I think they made boiled canned water unstackable because of balance. However, I think that balance needs to be re-examined. In the beginning the game gives you an end-of-the-quest line final quest to find the trader town. In that town there's a chance that a working forge can be found/used. Depending on the RNG (eg. luck) you'll skip using boiled canned water by crafting a cooking pot and go straight to cooking water jars. Not to mention there is no shortage of empty jars nor clean jarred water if you look in the right places. In the majority of games I've played in a17 and previous versions I cooked about 5-6 canned water only to dump/throw them away. This usually occurs when I find a cooking pot, empty jars, forge (to make pot) or in many cases lots of clean jarred water a day later. Now, with a17.1 experimental they give you a high food/water values when you first spawn so you'll last longer without eating/drinking. In other words, making clean canned water unstackable for balance won't do anything because people progress to the next step (eg. clean jarred water) very quickly. I think one of the reasons they made cleaned canned water unstackable because they don't have lids while the clean glass jars do have lids. However, this isn't consistent with other foods because the stews themselves are stackable but do not have lids either. I think clean canned water should be stackable to be consistent with other foods but it doesn't really matter because I usually skip them early on in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limdood Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'm pretty sure that's the point. You can often skip canned water...but not ALWAYS. If it was no worse than water jars, then it would fill no niche, or water jars would fill no niche... currently, they do fill a niche...an important one, but one you'll skip on, probably, MOST of your playthroughs. IF you happen to not be able to get a cooking pot early, you still have ready access to clean water. It's not about being consistent with other foods, its about becoming IDENTICAL to another food. Quite bluntly, if canned water were stackable, then either it, or water jars would have no reason to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'm pretty sure that's the point. You can often skip canned water...but not ALWAYS. If it was no worse than water jars, then it would fill no niche, or water jars would fill no niche... currently, they do fill a niche...an important one, but one you'll skip on, probably, MOST of your playthroughs. IF you happen to not be able to get a cooking pot early, you still have ready access to clean water. It's not about being consistent with other foods, its about becoming IDENTICAL to another food. Quite bluntly, if canned water were stackable, then either it, or water jars would have no reason to exist. No, even if you made clean canned water stackable you'd still need clean (jarred) water because a lot of recipes require the jarred version. Your argument would only be valid if all food recipes used either types but at the moment only clean jarred water is used. In addition you can easily make new empty jars using the forge and sand/glass but new empty cans are only be found through scavenging or 'created' by eating canned goods. Think about it this way. In a17 you can make the sham canned food with an empty can, paint, rotten meat and some other ingredient(s) I can't recall right now. The empty can is filled with ingredients and is suddenly automatically sealed to become sham canned food. The sham is now stackable. Stews are made from meat (or veggies depending on the version) and don't appear to be sealed yet they are stackable. Clean canned water gets the short end of the stick - it doesn't get an automatic seal nor does it stack. Hence, the inconsistency with other foods. I get it. Canned water is the first step for getting clean water before you progress to the jarred version. What I'm saying is with these recent changes the progression can be skipped immediately (depends on your RNG luck) or the progression timeframe is very short, making the canned versions useless unless they get some kind of bump to make them more attractive. That bump being stackable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Idk, I get it but at the same time, is it worth taking the memory in the game for it? I have the worst RNG in the world but I can find a cooking pot way before I get desperate enough to start canning water. Even if it takes a bit, I still don't need but one or two canned waters (even if, it's so easy to find now, bottled waters). And murky water (not to my liking) dones't have as high as a chance to make you sick (and if so, itsn't as bad as before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Idk, I get it but at the same time, is it worth taking the memory in the game for it? I have the worst RNG in the world but I can find a cooking pot way before I get desperate enough to start canning water. Even if it takes a bit, I still don't need but one or two canned waters (even if, it's so easy to find now, bottled waters). And murky water (not to my liking) dones't have as high as a chance to make you sick (and if so, itsn't as bad as before). Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzalicious Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Isss.....isss it really you after all thessse yearsss!?? -Morloc This ^ hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Some items are "transition items" on purpose. The canned water is really just a very early game item to allow survival, or a fallback in some scenario where you need to get water quickly while being away from the base. Its on purpose balanced to be inconvenient. The stone axe is also a transition item, being superseded by other specialized tools after some time. Totally fine from a gamedesign perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stasis78 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yeah https://imgflip.com/i/2r82n1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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