meganoth

How would you know there is no strawman? For that you would need to understand my real position. And I have been talking about the same topic again and again because I tried to rectify your misconception about what I meant and said and failed and failed again. YOU inadvertedly prompted me to stay on that side topic. Now, if you want the last word, please tell me again what I think since you seem to know it better than myself 😉 You are not my customer because I'm just a player like you. All moderators on this forum are just volunteers doing a side job of removing spam and enforcing forum rules.

"all" is definitely wrong, I have been saying I like the unreliably food and I have been using LotL1 in 2 of my games in A20. In a third game I'm not the farmer and he is at LotL2 See, what you are claiming I said is far from what I really said or meant. You are attacking straw men. Whether it is my inability to confer what I mean or your inability to read what I mean doesn't really matter. It just means we are at an impasse and there is no use to continue.

My last post was almost exclusively talking about estimations how much of the duke generation is made from buying/selling. I don't fault you for not wanting to read or understand it, this discussion is having too many tangents and details now, but don't say it isn't there. And I never did. Where does that "+" for the bonus suddenly come from? At a minimum it shows our talk isn't constructive anymore.

1) Visit the link in the blue banner above and follow its advice if you didn't already do all that. 2) Post your logfile with the error, the procedure is explained in a pinned thread here in the support section that tells you to read it.

Did you also do the launcher tools cleaning described in the link in the blue banner above? A friend of mine had frequent random crashes, but yesterday, after cleaning all settings he didn't even crash once.

I have a mathematical background, numbers are important, especially if they are facts that are the basis of later arguments. So for me it is important to say that a 25% bonus on buying and selling is effectively more than just a 25% bonus only on buying or selling. How much this influences total trade then can only be an estimation, something which we are both aware of. And for a long time I didn't even know if you were disagreeing on the BB bonus being effectively more for buying and selling or if you were only disagreeing on the (estimated) total bonus of the whole average money trade. Since I made the mistake of forgeting trader rewards I estimated other effects to be easily covered by the fact that the effective buy/sell bonus of this perk is actually more than just the sum. And now I would still say they are though it needs some help from perk points in Daring Adventurer to keep the effect somewhere in the area of 50%. Maybe 1/3rd of the income of quest rewards are in items you then sell so even in quest rewards the BB's bonus applies partly instead of the Daring bonus. And Daring gives you more choices for the most expensive item, so that should increase average bonus one gets out of Daring. And yes, I also thought about the barter bonuses from other sources, they decrease the bonus by a factor. But awesome sauce is a hard to come by end-game item (that you need highest master chef and super corn to cook them and the high bonus are indicators). The candy costs 100 coins per use so you have to pool stuff to sell and get the money later if you want to get near those 10%, and that time can be valuable as well if you can't afford an item you need or want (Your transaction volume has to be 1000 to even break even with the candy). Cheesecake only buffs buying, not selling. Without making an exact calculation I assessed (and still think) that their influence on the overall bonus you get from INT is not that big. All of them except magnum have per-use fixed costs, all except candy need recipes, books or items to use them regularily, most players won't have all bonuses available until late game. This doesn't apply to excellent min/maxers, but the typical player (including me) isn't even organized enough that he gets the theoretical limit of the bonuses of the boosters he actually has. I often just sell stuff immediately from quests while I really should put them into a chest in front of the trader and later sell with the best bonuses I can get. I don't know anyone who actually does that, i.e. save trader rewards But lets calculate the effect of those other bonus sources and see if I was totally wrong or something: Lets assume that a player can get on average 125% from boosters (with per-use costs and average availability all factored in). What does it mean for the 125% buff from the perk only the Int player gets? It is the difference between 125% and 150% and that difference (if I made no mistake) is 120% down from 125% (If we instead assumed boosters at 130% on average that difference would be 119% by the way). Recalculating the effective bonus of BB (with boosters in mind) would now land exactly on 150%. Assuming Daring being perked as well that leaves only coins you find in loot as the remaining factor, so I'd say my estimation of 150% is not too far from the truth. (And again, whether that number is too low, too high or just right for balance is another much much harder question and is highly subjective) I didn't do the math with error interval and statistical analysis, I just gave an estimation then. But neither did you do the math. We both have not the statistical data to get any somewhat dependable results for the bonus overall. And we already both talk too much even without exactly calculating every step of our estimations 😉, so we both have to rely on guesses and estimations. Me getting to different numbers than you does not mean I'm automatically wrong and you are right and we both have to do a massive glossing over the details as a neccesity. And mistakes do not show intent, except in insurance cases probably, are you by chance in that field? Would explain much 😎 Weeell, you assume yourself having higher authority because you analyse stuff for work, but it still doesn't mean that you are the arbiter of truth and especially of motives. For that you would actually have to do the work and analyse step by step, not handwave that you are right because you work in that field and I'm the culprit doing nefarious slanting. In this forum you have to reason like everyone else to make a point, which thankfully you do with a few exceptions. No, you assume, I don't remember my brain being dissected by you 😉. The effective bonus of BB for buying and selling being higher than 25% is a hard mathematical fact and it is important to me just like I have corrected everone who said that LotL1 is a net loss on average. Those are the basic facts and I'm actually astonished that a data analyst who's primary job IS to evaluate from facts to come to reliable conclusions values those facts so low. We could argue about the relative strength of attributes endlessly, lots of estimations and subjective views mostly derived from our personal play style and the few insights we get from playing with others. It would get too far from the topic of this thread as well. As you say there is also the question if it is just the trader itself that has become too central and powerful in the game with or without BB, we can agree on that. Since A18 I have never built my base more than a stones throw away from the trader and gameplay is usually very focused on doing quests and trading. Exploring the world outside of quest POIs is nearly irrelevant. I view that as detrimental to replayability, irrespective of the positive elements the trader brings to the game. It does not mean that I try to tell the devs every week this needs to change, it doesn't mean I do a campaign, post angry summaries or have a crusade running. I even sometimes appreciate that the game loop has become so easy that you don't need to remember what to do next time you start the game. One of my co-players already told me that he feels he doesn't need to mine anymore as enough materials to build a horde base and enough ammo to defend it on horde night are easily available from looting POIs and buying from the trader. No question this has a positive side compared to previous alphas where everyone had to do at least some mining and it put STR in a central position. The question is whether the pendulum swung too much in the other direction now. Agreed. Most importantly because of the exploit or trick, but also because it boosts multiplayer without need (as the same double-dipping can be done absolutely legal in MP). And sometimes it also leads to the INT player being punished for having a higher BetterBarter. It would be much better if the higher stashes simply extended lower stashes and I would guess this is probably already on TFPs to-do list somewhere, but pretty low.

Yeah that is extreme. You might make a bug report, but I'm not sure this will be changed. In your video it was dark and helmet light should not make it impossible to stealth as you otherwise can't really stealth in early game without night vision googles, which you usually only find later in the game. Players should not be forced to turn up gamma on the monitor. Maybe the immersive solution would be for TFP to implement a helmet light with color filter that isn't visible to zombies as well as white light But the main problem here probably is that you are still outside the room so the zombie is not alert. The zombie in the cubicle should (for unstealthed players) wake up when they open the door, therefore making the room and zombie alert before the door gets opened is also not a good solution. And I assume this is the reason you can break the desk without making noise because you are still outside the area where this room is made active. But don't take my word for it, only the tester and developers of TFP can really decide what is wanted or unwanted behaviour of the game. Also breaking doors

Which is something I already mentioned though I only listed found coins and forgot about the quest reward money. I quote: "Only with coins you find in loot your bonus is only 25%". But that you immediately accuse me of dishonesty instead of just pointing to any possible mistake I may have made is disappointing. In detail: The only coins you get by any other way are A) coins in loot which I would estimate to be less than 5% of all the coins you get. And B) quest rewards, which depending on how many quest one does is 50% to maybe even 2/3rds of income (asked a friend and his estimation was 2/3rd, mine would be 50%). But if you have points in Daring as well (what I would expect from an INT player) you nearly get the same bonus for that income source as the income from better barter. I don't think this is playing with numbers. A game is a very controlled environment and one can actually get some accurate numbers or ranges if one is careful. I stand by that (approximate) 50% bonus for an INT player, naturally it will be somewhat different for any specific player. We could do an indepth analysis with error ranges and all, but I doubt we will get much below that value. The only question is the interpretation of that number, i.e. how much that bonus does matter in actual gameplay, for example it is surely possible that it doesn't matter how much money you make above some basic amount that allows you to get the important stuff. And naturally you only get that bonus fully perked in two perks so in early game you will have a lesser bonus, There is nothing deceptive about it, if you do data analysis you know that the numbers are facts (though some estimates with lower or upper limits), it is the interpretation that is subjective and can be unintentionally wrong or intentionally misleading. So ""thanks"" for immediately implying the worst. The interpretation that the trader is OP is just my subjective view and interpretation, but actually not that important to the farming subject. I have said: " I have been complaining about OP traders since A16 😉", nothing more, nothing less. Not a crusade at all, unless any long standing opinion is automatically a crusade.

I remember restock to be daily for a looong time. I also found a reddit post from 2 years ago saying the same. Yes, you can't just add the bonuses together if you want exact numbers. The resulting number is somewhat higher. Lets run through an example: At BB 0 you find 10 scrap guns worth 100 at the trader and want to buy a big stack of parts the trader sells for 10 a piece. So you get 1000 coins and buy 100 parts from it. Now assume you have BB 5, therefore your scrap guns are all worth 125 and you get 1250 from it. The trader sells you parts for 7.5 a piece. So you get 1250 / 7.5 = 166.666 parts. The effective bonus of BB 5 is 166% About Daring being stronger, that may be. You need to achieve a high quest count per day, say 3-4 quests every day from day 1. Then this game just waves the white flag and declares defeat 😉. But novice players seldomly achieve that, they will die, they will get dozens of infections, they will starve and often the first horde night will kill them. The next playthrough will be better but they will still complain about food being scarce and die from infections or a surprise zombie horde and do 1-2 quests per day max. Vanilla is for novice players. Could do TFP more for experienced players? Yes, sure. Making higher difficulties change more than the HP and damage of zombies would achieve much, but one thing TFP can never change. Experienced players will know exactly what to expect in POIs, they know most POIs (and possible traps in them) from the get go and because of that can easily rush through POI quests where a novice player has to be careful, get hit multiple times, get an infection and needs to hunt for honey instead of doing 3 quests per day. No question about that. The vanilla game is too easy for experienced players. But my point is that we are talking about a comparison of attributes now, and super easy is still better than easy. There is no guarantee, yes, but it still reduces randomness and allows you to get the important things faster on average. For example food in the vending machines is random as well but since you can expect new stuff every day there is not much difference to a fixed inventory, you easily reach the high numbers where statistics predicts that you almost certainly will be very near to the average over time. I'm not sure about this, but I think traders do not sell quality 6 tier3 stuff at all (at least it would fit with quality6 being "legendary". But for me this hunt for q6 items is something for completionists just like getting the books complete, in actual gameplay the difference between having quality5 stuff and quality6 stuff is very small. At the time you hunt for it the game is already done and you are OP against anything thrown at you in POIs, even in the wasteland. The only small danger is lurking in the attrition game of the horde night. This game was always about the journey to reach this point where you are OP and the trader speeds up this journey massively and makes it easier through the quests and his inventory. All that can be had by non-INT players as well, sure, but IMHO the trader (including the quest he gives out) is THE fast-track, the better you can use it the faster you are. I definitely see your point about LotL0. Though TFP will probably look at the experience of novice players to see whether they get any use from it. And TFP may be of the opinion that it should be exactly that way, that farming without points into the perk IS nearly or completely useless.

Ok, I assume with "2 weeks in" you are talking about the end of week 2, I was talking about the whole second week where a lot of stuff usually happens. I don't remember well enough to make a useful statement about the situation on day 14, but I would guess by that time I would have already cooked some stuff with the help of the farm. There is not much difference between eating tons of canned low quality food and better food, but procuring it takes time as well as operating a farm, you might just not see that time being used because it is evenly distributed over each day. There are multiple ways for almost anything in the game. I see it as positive that you can survive as well with canned food and some hunting, or maybe even without any hunting but with canned food and visiting multiple traders regularily to buy food from them. Ah, I'm not even talking about daring, I'm talking about better barter. The trader gives a 25% bonus on what you sell him and sells for 25% less at better barter 5, making it a 50% bonus for any money you get by selling things at the trader. Only with coins you find in loot your bonus is only 25% The main advantage of daring is more choice at all levels and even a double choice at 5. And in A20 rewards are quite a bit ahead of anything you loot, at least in the beginning, and the rest you can easily buy at the trader. Int is definitely OP in that regard. If you know what is worth a lot you can make a lot of money even without barter. If you spam quests you can also make a lot of money. But better barter and some daring make that trivial. Correct. Only that the randomness of looting is also a nerf compared to the ability to buy just the thing you need. This is offset by the fact that the trader takes your money for it but looting is free. Unless you swim in money, when that happens the trader becomes simply OP. Looting, crafting and trading are all sources for the same stuff, but currently crafting and looting are behind trading for almost everything, at least that is my impression. Didn't assume that, but assumed to mean it as a possible difference to my game. And permadeath is actually a difference, feral sense not. Only that I don't think starving is a possibility if you play correctly as there are just so many possible sources.

This is a known problem AFAIK. You can also check the bug list yourself, just follow the link in the red banner above and there is a link to the bug list mentioned. If you don't find it in the bug list though, report it. I don't know whether TFP has the means to rectify it. It could be a bug in Unity or a bug in AMDs graphics driver as well, though if other games don't show this effect then they must be doing something different than TFP. It could just be an usual or wrong way using some graphics element.

You have a faulty line in your serverconfig.xml. Since the logfile is complaining about the first line already I would guess you inserted or deleted some character into that line when you edited the file. For comparison, the first line has always to look exactly like this: <?xml version="1.0"?>

In my SP games I usually don't see any change in food production in the first week and I find maybe a handful of food/seed recipes which would produce not much synergy on average.This is why I usually also buy a point in master chef to have bacon&eggs and the tea recipes reliably from day 1. I would estimate I see the first improvements in week 2, i.e. more and more recipes drop and I can produce some advanced dishes myself. But this is still a time where any food supplement is valuable, so 3 pies produced thanks to a farm would be a difference in comfort. In SP I advance relatively slow, I'm on day 50, level ~45, and still drive around with minibike, as I didn't find the last missing motorbike part. In my case I don't see any time investment to start a farm in the first days since I am stationary. I need exactly one slot in my inventory for the rotting flesh I automatically get by killing the usual stuff and looting, plus a slot for the occasional seed I find. On nights where I can't go out much yet I easily have lots of spare time to build some farm plot and place them down anywhere. I don't get useful stuff from my plots yet, but I also have just a handful of plots that take maybe 1-2 minutes real-time every 3 hours real-time which otherwise would be wasted as I don't need and don't want the stamina waste to dig in the night (yet). Much depends on the attribute I specialize into, but generally night time is a lot "cheaper" than day time as I don't want to have stress all the time and rush through the game. Whether I think a bit longer on what to do with a perk point, check if I have a free mod slot to fill or harvest 10 plots, that is not that much of a difference. And here is the dividing line I think. Since you play a nomad in the first days you have different requirements. For me any town with a trader works as first base. In MP we tend to leave the first town after about 2 weeks and relocate to a better place, in SP I usually just build sub-bases at interesting far-away locations and regularily return to that first base. For you a (stationary) farm immediately clashes with your play style. I probably would ignore farming as well since inventory space is premium for a nomad (par-time or not). But since I am stationary I can just place down storage chests on the streets of my "home town" and don't even need to prioritze what to keep. INT build together with the OP traders ( I have been complaining about OP traders since A16 😉 ) is an excellent alternative to farming/mining/any production. One has the money to just buy all the food and still have ample money left, while for non-INT players buying food from the trader is expensive. By the way, I don't consider it really a generalist build if I put maybe 4-8 points into perks of other attributes. If you melee for example, one point in Sexrex is giving you at least as much as a point into the melee perk itself. But that depends on viewpoint, the first point of all perks could be viewed as the generalist skillset as it is free for all. I assume you know that quality 6 is supposed to be the placeholder for legendary weapons? I don't see it wrong that there is a top class of stuff that is not craftable, but currently quality 6 drops too often and most importantly has not the distinctive feel of being legendary. I really really hope that TFP still gets around to implementing *real* legendary weapons and armor. This is also why you like crafting more than looting for getting your weapons and why you like INT. Both mean dependable non-random results, sure things. Even though you might like the randomness of the game you want to conquer that randomness, make yourself independant of it. I on the other hand try to adapt to whatever happens. Just somewhat different ways to play the same game. I don't think feral sense has something to do with this, I play with it on as well. Most players (including me) don't see dying as a solution to anything even when they are not playing strict permadeath. It may be a rather common practice, but it is on the same level as save-scumming with RPGs or using creative menue. But it also isn't necessary if one isn't playing a difficulty level too high. As I view it I "bet" on different ways to get food and stuff. If some don't work out I can always expend time or money to get substitute food more reliably. I usually don't buy food from the trader for example, but that food is still there if looting or the farm don't get me enough food. As a last resort I can always just drive around into a new area or to the snow biome to hunt meat or get a buried supplies quest, it costs me valuable time. There is always a backup plan available, I can still use all the (dependable) ways of procuring food that you can use. I have never starved (in vanilla at least) and will never starve, just like you. If my bets work out I may save time compared to you while if my bets don't work out I may waste time compared to you.

I was mentioning steak and potatos just as an example. My fault. Early on there is no alternative to buying cans and eating low quality food, cooked meat and the occassional bacon&eggs. This was true in previous alphas and is true any which way you play in A20. The objective is to get to some better state. A single 50 food? You find seeds and find or can buy crops all the time. So you might have found the pumpkin pie recipe and suddenly the pumpkins you grew are worth a lot more, 1.5 pies per seed on average to be exact. Now you can't hope to find a specific food recipe if you don't go into Master Chef, but you sure as hell find some random recipes early on and chances are good that you will get some food out of it. I don't. This is another point where I agreed with you, even in my first reply. I also made the suggestion multiple times that seeds you get back should stay in the earth saving half the replanting work on average. And I don't like all the busy work that is necessary to recraft the seeds, but see no alternative for that. Ok, as I never played with LotL0 in A20 this is useful information for me too. It sure is possible that they nerfed the unspecced farming so much that it lost its use. I personally have always put one point in LotL, just like I always put a point in SexRex and Adventurer. Now here I have to disagree for multiple reasons: 1) This is a survival game and it is not unusual for survival game to throw random problems at you. Random dog hordes surprising you, trap floors, in A21 probably random vehicle failures (if you drive off-road). 2) Secondly you have all the means to compensate for the RNG result. Get a bad farming result and you can A) buy all food in the vending machine B) get a buried supplies quest, C) raid kitchens D) buy overprized trader food E) search for an unlooted farm or select a quest for one. I can post my opinion and comment on other opinions just like you can. No need to be so aggressive. Not sure, maybe me saying something about "black-and-white analysis" is angering you? If so, sorry about that, I may be color blind to some of my sentences having a negative or judgemental subtone.

NOOOOO, not the comfy chair!!!! I really didn't expect this

I did not dismiss it. I argued for a way I didn't see evaluated in your first post (whether you knew it or not seemed not evident from that post). Also you made your conclusion on partly wrong facts (see below), so I think my comments are justified. Correction. It is 2 crops at 0 LotL. Together with the potential seed return that gives back ultimately 3 crops on average per seed at LotL0 Not quite. Lets look at the list of all all meals giving back more than 40 food: Blueberry pie needs 5 blueberries but only 1 from all other crops and ingredients. Pumpkin pie needs 2 pumpkins but 1 from all other crops. Chillidog needs 1 of each ingredient (except meat which needs the usual 5). FishTacos need 2 corn besides the can of salmon, GumboStew, Spaghetti and Shepards Pie needs one of each crops, and 3 animal fat. Tunafishgravytoast needs 2 corn and 3 animal fat and 1 of all other crops Cham Showder, Steak and Potatoe, Hobo stew, vegetable stew and meat stew all require 2 of potatoe and corn. So it is 5 to 8 which isn't what I would call typical. But it works. I have only tested with LotL 1 but I got enough seeds and recipes in my SP as well as in my MP game to get a useful food production going in a timeframe I also got other skills working better (i.e. in the same way I got better and better vehicles and my weaponry moved from hardly adequate to "I feel confident going in there" my food production also improved step by step) On that I partly agree. Potatoes and corn are really easy to get from farms, but that also makes the 5 meals above that all need 2 of potato and corn viable again without a big farm, provided you can produce the rest of the ingredients (with a farm, as pumpkins, blueberries and mushrooms are not so easy to be found) Now all the other food sources you list I use in my SP game as well, but I don't see that they are particularily more efficient than a small farm. For example in the time I drive off to an airdrop I can easily replant and airdrops can drop all sorts of supply boxes, a food box is only one possibility among many. Buying food costs you money which (for most players I assume) is scarce until end-game. At least I still find stuff I would like to buy in mid-game and often don't have the money.

(I shortened your wall-of-text post as I'm only replying to this part). In my experience with the new game bacon and eggs are quite expensive and I want to have alternatives as fast as possible. Because meat is the really cheap resource here, but eggs need much driving around for very low yield. And bacon and eggs need 2 eggs per meal. In my current games I usually get a lot of meat just by killing animals, but I always have much less eggs. In numbers: I usually have at least a stack of 100 meat around and I feel lucky if I have 6 eggs. Since all recipes need 5 meat, that stack is really only 20 servings of meat, sure, but 20 to 3 still means that eggs is the scarce resource here. Finding eggs seems to depend on visiting lots of different chunks to find unlooted nests while questing keeps you going into the town you are in which has all the already looted nests. Now sure, while you have nothing better, bacon&eggs is better than just boiled meat, but as soon as I find various crops and a few food recipes (or someone perks heavily into master chef) then the eggs make it possible to produce pies which represent the middle class of foods and need blueberries and pumpkin which otherwise would have not much use. Your mileage may vary, play styles do differ. And above account points to a different problem of the current RWG balance, that the wilderness areas have too few POIs to make you venture into the wild, something that I hope gets rectified by TFP eventually

You are forgetting that there is a middle way, just spend 1 point into LotL and you have a sustainable farm and converting crops to seeds gives a positive return. Just with more work per average crop return. I don't like the busy work either, but you miss out all the shades of grey between your black-and-white analysis Yes, seeds are not found in masses, but common enough that a SP player not speccing into LotL might operate maybe 3-5 plots just from found seeds and seeds that gave back a seed again. I wouldn't call that a farm and there is the question if that return is worth hauling back the seeds. But when your only other food is basic meat and cans then yes, that sounds like it might be worth it to get some steak and potato meals inbetween

Maybe because they don't know about it. You could inform them by making a bug report. Possibly the problem only occurs on some PCs, so some more information than "it doesn't work" may be necessary

My guess is that a new log message which seems to check whether the vehicle teleport fix works is also telling everyone where other players are. Bad for PvP But the fix is easy. Don't play the newest experimental, I don't think a log message that spams all the time will be staying in the game for a long time

How about not calling it the "Specific Motorcycle KIT". Then it should be all clear, right? 😁 Not that your idea of calling it Vehicle Kit is bad, it actually makes sense, but people who are after specific vehicles would need to guess to choose the right kit. Really the only ones who did get confused where the super-lucky ones who got all the gated components in one go the first time. All others got a mixed bag the first time and were happy to have a chance at finding or buying just the missing parts instead of a complete vehicle But I agree that the ones who only got motors, batteries and wheels might feel as if they had lost a winning lottery ticket in a gully

Why should anyone avoid the bear den? I feel it is legitimite for the player to assume he notices a trap or dangerous situation and prepare for it (and this is possible even if he sees this the first time). I.e. put a ladder on the side and slowly descend into the room until he sees the bears. This isn't even break the walls, this is a survivor being very careful seeing a dangerous situation And if I see some opening I should jump through in a new POI, you can bet I won't simply jump down until I have an exit ladder ready. Have done this no matter what attribute I specced into.

A microtransaction is not the same as a cheap DLC. Microtransactions would need a shop integrated in the game, something which I don't think will ever happen in 7D2D for multiple reasons. I agree that there should not be dozens of small DLCs simply because it could make modding more difficult depending on DLC contents. And I think TFP knows this so my guess is that they will just continue their habit to tinker for a year or more and produce a new alpha, just now called expansion or DLC.

Arrgh, I always mix up serverconfig.xml with serveradmin.xml.

? Not really comparable. Adding a shield in 7D2D would need (IMHO) many changes in diverse parts of the game (graphics, UI, perks, xml-support). But most important there are multiple ways to do it (only passive, with shieldbash or full two-handed support so two knifes for example work too), multiple solutions. So there would be room enough for mods and DLC to exist simultaneously. Maps would only make sense if you add a story too, but this is not 7D2D's strength. But simply adding russian style POIs and a fitting RWG would work. I assume you meant the latter as well, but that is not what I would call a map, Navezgane is a map, RWG is not a map. You are definitely not what I would ever call a "hater". You just want 7D2D to be a different game than it really is.