meganoth

Sorry, that paragraph about superduper testers was above my english grokking abilities. So you are against "add more options" ? I'm not an employee of TFP, if that was directed at me.

Did you notice the pictures of an indian chief in the game? This is the Duke. Since you are from the US you probably can connect the dots 😉.

TFP has contracted a new publisher to make a console port of the finished PC version.

There is nothing realistic about zombie block damage. As well as many player abilities. So comparing both is as useless as comparing Marvels Iron Man to Thor and asking who is more powerful or who would win? DUH, the answer is whomever the script writer wants to win.

Any change will basically "punish" or "reward" someone. Any difficulty increase will make some nonoptimal play option go away, in exchange for giving some difficulty to veterans. This is why such a change would better be limited to higher difficulties. Even in SP I can make sure to kill most zombies and not let them be alive for 4 ingame hours on end. And if three of them escape my scrutiny and reach say double damage after 4 hours that would effectually now be 19 instead of 16 zombies damagewise. But if all 16 reach double damage because you play an AFK base then something like the silo POI may be gone before horde night is over in late game. RipClaw corrected me with the difficulty not having any influence on block damage, but I would still be interested to know how much of the silo would get thrashed by a late game horde. Sure, you can then use multiple POIs. But seriously you can also just mine for a week and build a big concrete block, not that much of a difference. I also don't understand why TFP uses no block damage increase at higher difficulties. It doesn't need to be double or quadruple damage, even 50% more damage might already be enough for somewhat different results. The topic until now was that the struggle is gone because of rushing and now because of AFK-bases as well. THAT change would completely remove any chance for zombies to break into a POI or self-built horde base. Horde night as a pure shooting gallery Is this just a random "because realism" comment or is the horde night too difficult for you at the moment?

I'm not so sure. There is no easy fix I can see apart from simply increasing block damage. By the way, does that building still work as afk base at warrior or insane in later game? Oh wait, one possible fix: Zombies could get an automatic increase to their block damage every few seconds the longer they live.

I should have expected you proving me wrong 😉

The correct section would be "General Support", I moved your thread to that section. Nobody has time to watch a 20 minute video to understand your problem. We need your logfile and a description of your problem. Read this thread, it tells you how to find the logfile, post it on pastebin.com and link to it in your post: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/3956-how-to-report-an-issue-please-read-before-creating-new-threads/

Ok. I see that that feature is only for newbies. But if you want to bring it as an example of simplification of the game it doesn't work well. Because a tutorial is supposed to be simple and it does not simplify the game for veterans at all. With or without the signs the tutorial was always a trivial job for a veteran. If you don't name those features I can't comment on that. Are you talking about VR? You also can't mean bandits, right? Development takes time. I don't mean to say that you owe them anything. You just said "then I would do something to show a bit of gratitude" as if they owed you as a veteran player something. Is there a fine line between gratitude that leads to a demand for features and owing that I don't see? I say veteran players did get a very good deal from this game, but it was always a quid pro quo, both sides get something valuable out of it. When you eventually walk away from this game I would guess that neither you nor the pimps can claim that there are outstanding debts. Continuing to play the game is what you want to do yourself, it isn't really a service you are doing for the pimps. They will surely thank you if you ask them, because they are polite (sometimes 😉). But it is a "thank you" without an implied debt. There is a large difference between paying monthly for a service game and playing a game for a long time without any costs. Good point as well, console shows that some diehards would still be playing even if the game had released years ago. Though the current influx of console players comes from the xbox store, before that the forum was very very silent on the console side. Only that that isn't a good measure of how many people still play it there.

Yes. Just like anything else you need to code to make this game work. You forget you said "etc." 😉. The size of the changes you want for this game is massive, that is my impression at least.

A friend of mine is a big fan of shotguns for survivability. He doesn't care about the damage, he cares that the zombies are stopped for a short time while he can run away. And my friend often has the fewest deaths of our group so there might be some truth in that.

Wrong. If TFP wants to fix performance and security this needs an overhaul of the network code. In laymans terms, an unencrypted connection and a buffer overflow are both examples of security problems, but only the second example is a bug. It is an example of TFP (probably) listening to players but also an example of them analyzing and then going for a solution they select. And I would say from experience that seems quite typical. The exponential increase and trivial gameplay in farming was criticised by players for some time as well and either they recognised it themselves already or listened to the players, but they did not follow the suggestions of the players. They invent their own solution. And there are more examples like this. You were asking if THEY have a chance. You were not asking if YOU have a chance. You want 7d2d to be a completely different game made by developers who probably should have a different taste in games. And the probability of that has more zeros than you getting hit by lightning on the day you win the lottery. This is the point where I stop reading 😄

Why do you care about what the tutorial highlights at all? If this is "forgetting about veterans" then those veterans deserve that measure for being selfish elitists. A tutorial should be so simple to follow that the worst imaginable player can follow it, and I can imagine players who would need that clue bat. For veterans it is an inconsequential thing that is done in 30 seconds so you can get the 4 perk points or ignore it completely for ... some more initial difficulty. The highlighting of vehicles and turrets is maybe a simplification but without that the difficulty is "fake" difficulty. The difficulty to find your bike among 4 identical ones in co-op multiplayer is such a difficulty I don't care much about. The difficulty finding your turret after you left it somewhere is somewhat "fake" as well. The marking of quest buildings, yes, I wish they would make a system where you really would need to find the building. I hope you really thought about that example when you mentioned highlighting. Have you forgotten that you got HOURS of playtime out of it with a fresh game with new gimmicks and features (but also new bugs) every year, just like a service game but without paying anything at all? Sure, some players also pay back with bug reports or server operation or recommending the game. But players of a service game do that as well and still have to pay for it. And you hint at their moneygrabbingness (which surely exists, otherwise why work at all?) while you just payed a small sum once for years and years of playing this game. Hows that for money-pinching, have you bought a 7D2D cup each year? 😉 I'm not suggesting to buy a cup now, seriously, but the deal we got is a good one even if the game eventually gets stale on us. TFP didn't promise perpetual happiness for 20$ and that we got a few YEARS out of one game is seldom and unplanable. How about showing some gratitude for 9 years of a game held fresh by updates. Make no mistake, if they just had made a beta after the alpha you consider best and released that then the chance that you would still play this game at all would be pretty low. People usually don't want to play the same stuff in an endless loop, they change from novice to veteran to former player. Me personally I think the deal between TFP and you is pretty even, but only if you convinced 10 of your friends to join the game. 😉

Ah okay. My point was that in early game when only weak zombies run around OP (== overpowered) traps would make the game boring even if the game had armored zombies or behemoths, because those advanced zombies would not be seen in the early or even mid-game. So your answer "And honestly about early game - it think "early" weak variants of zombie would be pretty good." does not make sense to me. They would be even easier canon fodder for the overpowered pits. They would not be a solution that would make the game dangerous again. No, even easier. Because we don't know anything about 7D2D 2 to talk about it. And I would suggest to forget about your pipe dream of influencing the developers about the next game just because you are mass posting your own idea. The only thing you will accomplish will be to land on ignore lists. I do see a realistic chance to convince TFP to add an option for A21 or change the loot abundance option to include the traders quest rewards or anything else to better increase difficulty. But the important thing is, what they can accomplish is to make TFP aware of a problem and think about solutions. What they can't accomplish is to make TFP just take the solution they suggest. A recently successful example of a convince: Operators of open servers convinced them that they need to do something about their network performance and security. So they hired a network guy to overhaul the code.

You'll have to find someone else to talk about 7d2d 2. I have no interest in talking about it. Learn to quote. I don't know what you are talking about here Nothing wrong with hundreds of wood spikes. See anyone else do that? I don't.

You argue with realism. Sorry, then we have to remove almost all building abilities from the player. It is unrealistic and in reality someone who could build pits to "bedrock" that easy would have no problem with zombies at all. Especially because zombies also don't exist. And so on. Other games decide for limiting the player severely. Did it ever occur to you that you should be able to dig a hole anywhere in other zombie games because of realism? Most don't allow it (AFAIK) but strangely that doesn't seem to disturb your sense of reality. Thats the problem with arguing with reality. In games there are so many limits and differences to reality that you can argue for almost anything "because of reality". And especially easy whenever fantasy-creatures like zombies are in a game. How many people have argued with properties zombies should have, when any layman could prove that that property of a zombie is impossible in the real world. Yes, zombies are sturdier in 7D2D because there can only be a limited number at the same time. This means they need more than one bullet and also more than one fall to a spike trap to be killed, anything else would make the game a non-game. And there is no use discussing a what-if where that hardware-induced limit does not exist. Absolute disaster. So that in this situation the player with a OP pit has some danger a player without pit would be overwhelmed because he would have to deal with all zombies that the OP pit would have killed as well. Making a pit a mandatory ingredient in any horde base. And what about the early and mid-game where normal zombies dominate the mix? There is no substitute for balance when you want to give the player multiple ways to solve a situation. I was not arguing against wood traps, but they need even more space and time to replace than iron traps. At the moment with the difficulty in selecting and repairing spike traps they are not worth the trouble, if the bugs get ironed they might be useful again. But iron is practically endless for any realistically played game. Have you ever mined all the iron in even just 500m circumference of your base? I bet not.

One word: shrinkwrap

Show me any post where spikepits are termed exploits by TFP or me or Roland (I assume you mean that with the "they"?). No. Bring an argument instead of saying "they are supposed to be" or at least say exactly WHO decided that they have to be and why should we listen to him. Tomb raider for example is an absolutely pointless comparison: You don't build the trap in TR, it is a trap specifically for you to fall in, a danger made by the game, not one you made to let zombies fall in. And if you fall in you just reload. PLEASE PLEASE at least in conversations with me, could you please avoid that silly name dropping of other games. So TFP could make simply wood traps insta-kill traps for any zombie including demolisher because a few clumsy players could be killed by that trap as well? (And yes, I was killed by stepping into wood traps quite a few times). Meanwhile all the more careful players AND the clumsy players will be bored to death! That makes no sense. And they can be repaired if you can reach it. And it is part of the design of a horde base if all zombies rush through a specific place or only some. Redundancy is another option. And lastly, while the electric fence is working it keeps your ammo usage low so you still have enough ammo for spray-and-pray when it is gone.

Correct. But on the other hand you don't need need to go deep in early game (forget fall damage) and just use spike traps that are effective against normal zombies. Though I must admit I usually don't use pits in early game. Partly because my early game horde base is not the final horde base anyway, but also because placing spike traps around the small POI I usually use work as well. Yes, here we differ. Iron spike traps are very cheap and put down in masses work through a whole horde night. Also because zombies see the hole where a spike trap was as a longer way than the hole with a spike trap (because that way is still flat!!) zombies will NOT avoid traps when a path is cleared through a trap field. Sure. That could have been a different solution. It does not make a huge difference, who cares whether weak zombies survive that fall? By the way, a pit to bedrock is obviously the pit deluxe and rightly in endgame. Even a pit 5x5 and 10 blocks deep (250 blocks) can be very effective in combination with a sledge turret throwing them down there form a small access way. And naturally any size inbetween. There are lots of ways to make pits. You can make them into death traps with turrets, dart traps and electric traps and as I said before they are great for throwing explosives down there or putting a sniper there in MP. You can put spike traps in there as well but spike traps need space which you seldom have in a pit. Plastering a whole field with spike traps for example is a good way to soften and slow down a horde, it doesn't need much work and is as effective as the work put in. Yes, very hard to find out, most players will never know about it. I have criticised that as well. My prefered solution would be changing the graphics into something that looks more like a block with smaller spikes on it, similar to the one a mod had. Not sure what you mean by broken spikes (there are either spikes that do damage or the spike is gone), but as I said above, when a spike in a hole is gone it is a longer path for the zombie than the spike beside it that is flat ground and so he will maze-pathfind through spikes and avoid the empty holes.

You are going seriously overboard here. You don't know the details and just say "don't work". But the feature was nerfed exactly to not be OP, exactly the same thing you demand for the trader now. Fall damage is still there, but instead of outright killing zombies (which would be OP) the damage is one third of zombies health. That is quite good for a passive measure that also can be used to collect zombies for grenade or molotov bombardement and seriously slows them down in coming at you. The exit to spike pits can be plastered with further traps. I used 2 dart throwers for such a pit just now in A20 and even most radiated did not walk out of that pit alive even without picking them off from above (at insane you would need more, sure). Meanwhile basic spikes were relegated to work for early and mid-game, while in endgame they get ineffective and you need to use electric traps. That is the same mechanism that makes wood blocks obsolete and you need to move to concrete or steel blocks for advanced hordes. Basic game design, you should know that. Spikes counting as blocks means they need to be put into holes so their top is flat with the surrounding earth, then they work even better than before. Did you really never read this, I must have posted this information dozens of times and CraterCreator even had an icon for some time telling about that.

I think there are more important questions: What about underwater newsstands? 😉

The contradiction is maybe solved if we remember that the game is supposed to be a challenge for new players, not veterans. We veterans are using the game in "unintented" ways just like people on 9+ player servers and builders playing a single world continually for hundreds of hours. It surely isn't that TFP doesn't like veteran players to play the game, but all those players are in the second row. I agree in regards to the trader. His exploit-potential is so big that even novice players will often detect this almost immediately. HE LIKES THE GAME. Just like you dislike almost anything about the game (or at least are only posting to critizise and want the game to be different). Forget the moderator-sign, we just post like any normal user, argue like any normal user. Just that we both are generally pleased with the game and you are not. We also read much and have to read much and tend to post our views in any interesting argument. If your arguments are good they should stand up to the flak. Note it is no coincidence that volunteer moderators are usually pleased with how a game turns out, because if they are not they tend to vanish and eventually play other games. I'm still here since A15 because I like how the game turned out, in most aspects. Was there some change directed against spike pits?

You already can adjust zombie damage

I don't see how brass mining instead of looting would help at all. Ammo could be reduced without changing the game completely. The problem is that TFP itself doesn't see a necessity to reduce ammo further.

Since you use survival as the root motivation you have an argumentative problem here: For survival in 7D2D skilling up as fast as possible is detrimental even. Because the enemies scales with your level, but the number of resources you get is constant with time. So skilling up fast means getting the stronger enemies earlier but with less resources to combat them. You probably should rewrite this before Roland gets a cheap shot by rightly accusing you of strawmanning 😉