Roland

Now we finally see the culmination of your long game... Grendelwolf: CEO of Sandboxie

Being articulate is different than being vulgar, insulting, and trollish. There are many international users who use these forums with broken and translated English and so they aren't very articulate and people look past that and focus on what they are trying to say and that is admirable. We have a forum rule that people are not to be insulting against people for their grammatical and spelling errors. It is a nice sentiment that we all could just disregard poor behavior and only focus on the point but it isn't the reality which is why we have forum rules. There are probably legitimate times when someone could emphasize their point with a reference to politics or religion but we can't allow that because the ensuing flamewar would be all about the religious/political statement. It's just the way things are. So the responsibility is mostly on the author to choose what is going to be the focus of their post. If they want their point to be the focus then they should leave everything else at the door and stick to their point. If they want to express their emotion and suspicions and wild speculations then it is practically guaranteed that whatever point lies behind the colorful language will be lost in the noise. You can call that a sad report on human nature but sad or not it is the reality and given the anonymity of the internet it is likely never to change. So who bears the most responsibility for a conversation getting sidelined from the point to the tone? Well... only one person writes the post and perhaps 100 people will read it. If 90 of them are triggered by the overly dramatic language we could do as you suggest and lecture those 90 people to change their ways and ignore the fluff and be better readers and just let the @%$# aspect of the post slide off of them OR we can expect the one person to change the way they deliver their message and then none of the hundreds of readers have to overcome anything to focus on the point. It seems clear to me that while all share in the responsibility of having a civil discussion, the main responsibility lies with the author. That's why forum rules focus on what people write and not how people read. You can get banned for what you write regardless of how cool your underlying point is while you can't get banned for reading something and feeling annoyed by it and then posting your disappointment about it (as long as what you write doesn't also violate the rules) No. It isn't condescending to disagree with someone about their behavior in how they post. We ask people not to do it but that they should just report it so we can give infractions or hide such posts because of the arguing we know will ensue. But if someone posts their point and it is full of angry insults aimed at the devs or other users, we do not have to just let that stay and try and understand their underlying point. They forfeited the right to make a point here on the forum when they broke the rules. Maybe they should take a few moments before posting if they want their message to remain in view. Again, you say "not articulate" but in your descriptions you are talking about people who actually are being articulate in a boorish and uncivil manner that purposely trolls the reader with their hyperbole and insulting language. Some of these authors are actually quite savvy about what they can write to get under the skin of any who disagree with their opinion. I think they choose their words carefully and are definitely articulate enough to choose milder words if they wanted.

I'd say that's probably plenty of common history for you to reach out to either Prime or faatal when you have concerns/feeback. Darkness Falls is a big deal and if you already passingly know those guys and they know you are the DF author, they would be interested in hearing from you whenever you have feedback to share with them.

Who do you know among the devs? Alloc, possibly? Maybe Lathan or Robert? Send out personal message and see if you get a response.

Modder/Developer conversation about this issue and other issues is already in place. Rational and measured discussion is happening. Conversations like this thread can't be suppressed or deleted because THAT would only cause white hot fury over nobody being able to give their feedback. The devs are obviously not going to engage in threads like this or on Steam where people are either inferring or outright accusing them of being dirt bags. You can tell that some of the people on here who are screaming outrage and claiming that they would be satisfied if only TFP would just give all the reasons why-- would in fact never be satisfied with anything less than exactly what they want for themselves. I gave the link to this thread days ago to the devs and they said that they were already communicating directly with modders they know in the community. Rant threads and speculations of disaster have been and always will be a part of the development scene whenever a studio chooses to develop publicly instead of behind closed doors. The truth about the mods folder will eventually trickle out to everyone and those who made the wrong assumption at first will figure it out. Very few who come on the forum and say they are done with the game and post their goodbye actually follow through and never play the game again. That's why goodbye posts are against the rules. They are just troll posts.

The issues are always different in the particulars but the attitude and reaction is always the same from people who just don't know to expect change, reconfiguration, and evolution when playing a game in active development. People think they know and can laugh off changes when they affect others but are of no concern to them. But then that one update comes when they are the ones inconvenienced and all of a sudden they sound just like all the doom and gloomers of the past. I guess it was your turn this update pApA...

Because you can’t take a joke and you are apparently a conspiracy theorist… You’re considering the worst case scenarios and then establishing those as reality. I guess we will find out whether or not your fears are real.

Wow...

Maybe its good to have a competency filter on who plays mods... It is exactly the same as now. People complain that the current method of playing mods is too complicated for them and they will never play mods until the method is simplified. What you are saying about the complications of the new method is what countless others have been saying about the current method. The truth is that those who really want to mod will learn what's needed in order to mod. As for the C drive filling up, aren't the mod files predominantly text files? How much space are they going to be taking up? I haven't looked at the total drain on my disk space that a full overhaul mod imposes so I guess I will do that before commenting further about how detrimental this is going to be on our disk space. If its 100s of MB or more than a GB then I will concerned with that as well Very true!

The question I have now is this: Does the change allow players who are on Game Pass the ability to experience mods which they couldn't have if things remained the same? If the answer is yes, then it is definitely worth the change so that more people can experience mods than ever before and shows that TFP is not at war against modding and modders at all and are simply taking a huge step toward broadening the audience of those who can play 7 Days to Die in modded form. If the answer is no, then I guess I am back to wondering.

I suppose that if someone tried it on Game Pass and liked it enough to want to mod it but couldn't figure out how to configure things they could wait for the next Steam sale and then get it "for real" and be able to participate in all the cool overhaul mods. If the changes to the mod file destination were made so that Game Pass players can also participate in using mods then that really shows TFP's commitment to broadening the modding community and player base rather than what some want to accuse them of because of the change....

The non-babies already delete their tutorial quests immediately after spawning. But a random spawn not on the frickin doorstep of the nearest trader would definitely help.

I can confirm that any one biome can be set to 100% and that all the biomes can be adjusted to varying percents to get the type of map you want. With forest biome very small you run the risk of getting a NO TRADER message for your beginning quest. There are still traders but just none in the forest and you will need to cancel the tutorial quest to get rid of the message and search for your first trader in one of the other biomes without gps. If you have forest set to 0% then you will for sure get no starter quest trader. Things are still developing so they may make some changes to the starter quest to account for different world configurations.

I'll just add that Game Pass players will most likely only have access to the whatever the current stable version is and not be able to participate in experimental branches or play past versions. As for modding...not sure. If the mod files were placed in the new location would that allow them to play a modded game?

You can acclimate to the new situation without understanding the big picture. Companies rarely spell out the big picture publicly until they are ready to roll everything out. Them telling us about a future change without giving us a "good reason" or "the whole plan" is exactly the way things are usually done. My point was that they have graciously given us time to get used to the change with an option to continue to use the old method until some future date when the new method will be the only option. Witty guy was complaining that TFP completely screwed everyone over with a surprise change. That didn't happen. They have given us a headsup. They have not revealed all the why's at this time, true, but a modder now has the option to start figuring out how to handle the change before it happens. You have a right to complain about the lack of information and ask for more so no argument from me on that score. We will have to see whether TFP decides to explain the reasons behind their change. We always expect some people will rage over any change. So, sure, the expectation was there. I was not expressing surprise-- or at least that wasn't what I meant to convey. I was expressing strong disapproval of someone falsely accusing the devs of surprising everyone with a sudden forced change that ruins modding and doing so in a vulgar and insulting manner. Period. The accusation was that the devs gave no warning and forced a horrible change on everyone. The truth was that we are being warned now about a future change and nobody is forced to adapt immediately. The full reasons haven't been explained although now a major reason has come out anyway. Agree or disagree about the technical ramifications of the change. I've dabbled with modding but that doesn't mean I'm an expert on all of this. If I don't know enough to agree or disagree and am willing to be patient until more is known then why can't the rest of you? I like using mods and I like having multiple versions of 7 Days loaded at once so I have some worries but if a method emerges that makes it still possible then I'll follow directions to figure it out same as I did when I originally had no idea how to apply mods to this game and followed directions to figure it out. We don't know what TFP is going to do to support modding officially and how easy they will make it to apply mods in the future. People who are getting upset are assuming the worst possible outcomes and then getting mad like that is the truth. Sure. Understood. We didn't spill all of our information to the public all at once and that leads to speculation. But the type of speculation that people make says more about them than it does about TFP. We know that TFP plans to officially support modding and we know that they are planning to change the location of where the mod folder is going to go. If you want to speculate doom and gloom that's on you. But it is self-inflicted pain. I haven't posted a single thing against any of the speculative wonderings on here. Some seem hopeful that things will turn out, some seem convinced the end of any meaningful modding is coming and I'm happy to let the whole spectrum of thought to be given voice. But...posting that TFP has already forced this change as a surprise with no time to get ready and adapt and figure things out is blatantly wrong and THAT is what I entered the conversation to correct-- not to stop people from wondering what the future will hold.

What do you call introducing it as they did where modders can choose to use either location and telling them that in the future the old way will be phased out? Announced planned changes. Check. Allow a period of time where it isn’t forced so that modders can expect it, take precautions, and be ready for it. Check. I don’t know enough to agree or disagree with what they have chosen to do but just from the way they announced it and are giving everyone a grace period to acclimate to it makes your statement sound pretty ignorant. I think you’ve been waiting awhile to use that line and so even though it doesn’t fit the situation at all you just threw it in to stop your itch… I hope that the change will be weathered and not be too much of a disruption. People who assume that the change is coming because TFP is antagonistic towards the modding community are way off base.

Your lol made it so.

Trollock!!!

Grant, Hefner, or Jackman?

According to the first definition found on the internet, it appears that “3” is not significantly different than “2” as far as the value it represents. So let’s drop “3” and proceed to at least “4”

He means he does not like it when the developers add zombie behaviors to the game that end what used to be a player choice. Players used to be able to drive around on horde night without any risk. Homing Vultures ended that player choice. Players used to be able to dig under ground a couple of blocks on any night and be 100% safe. Digging zombies ended that player choice. Players used to be able to tread water and be 100% safe from zombies. Swimming zombies ended that player choice. Players used to be able to stand behind 1.5 meter gaps and melee and shoot zombies without risk. Ducking and crawling zombies ended that player choice. Up until about a week ago players were able to stand on poles and be 98% safe. Pole hitting zombies ended that player choice. In his mind the developers are taking away important player choices.

Hail yeah!

April 2022 File pathways consolidated in A20.4 to comply with Microsoft Game Pass requirements TFP officially announces early work begun on new console version