A word from a QA Tester

[unclevlad]

Indeed A17 does rock. It just feels so deep now with meaningful perk choices, POIs that are so much more interesting, AI that will scare the crap out of you and shred tried and true base designs... New combat, vehicles, mods, new everything to be honest. There is too much to mention, but as a whole, this is the version I have personally been waiting for. To me this is the first version of 7 days that is feature complete for the most part. Having all systems in place for the first time is a big game changer. After this build its just more content, no brand new systems are needed.

 

I'll be honest, I am both excited and terrified over the level of changes, especially the impact it will have on my SP playing style. Thinking about the ways I have dealt with that first Blood Moon hoard over the various releases, and realizing none of those techniques may work. Unlearning years of of dealing with POIs because they have all changed. Determining an optimal balance of spending on perks to get what I need when I need it. For better or worse, it will be a whole new game.

[Viktoriusiii]

Indeed A17 does rock. It just feels so deep now with meaningful perk choices, POIs that are so much more interesting, AI that will scare the crap out of you and shred tried and true base designs... New combat, vehicles, mods, new everything to be honest. There is too much to mention, but as a whole, this is the version I have personally been waiting for. To me this is the first version of 7 days that is feature complete for the most part. Having all systems in place for the first time is a big game changer. After this build its just more content, no brand new systems are needed.

 

Very sad to see this is your honest opinion... I've been here since it launched on steam... and I was always so happy to have something new and inventive... and now it has become a run of the millvoxel-rpg :-/

I mean... I'm obviously happy for you, if you always envisioned it that way... but for my part, ever since ~A 14 (after first introducing perks where everything had to be leveled by doing it) this game has become less and less a hidden gem and more a hidden nicely looking pebble.

 

I love electricity. I love the new animations and ragdoll and the vehicles. But the perksystem was what made 7d2d stand out to me. You actually became better in what you did. XP was a small help for perks that you wanted to level quickly and support perks like miner69/tyrannosaur.

 

Now... everything is beeing handled via xp. There is no linear progression. I can be lvl 100 toolsmith but have no other skills.

Its so sad... maybe once you really REALLY refine this system, I might retract this...

but for me, this new perk system has (already before playing) killed the 7d2d spirit.

I probably still enjoy the game. But... well... its always sad to see an old friend go.

[Viktoriusiii]

Greetings

 

Thanks guys for the heads up! Just remember the vocal part is usually smaller than the silent majority. You guys rock and though I'm itching I know it will be worth the wait. Love you guys!

 

Even If I am freaking out a bit and panicking about zombie underground torpedoes! I still reckon you should be able to mine the night away without fear of zombie drop bears. It's a shame pvper's managed to push through the underground not safe thing just so it's easier to find peeps and to base grief .. Ouch I better put on my Fire suit for that comment.

 

Its not PvPers that want this. Where did this rumor come from?

While PvPers might ALSO want this, this was not done because of them. Its done because of basic game design.

A "survival" game, where certain parts leave you completly safe are not a survival game.

Its not "optionalsurvival" you should always work to be safe. There shouldn't be easy solutions for the main "problem-pillars" of the game.

Just go and read the last 2 pages of the "vehicle on hordenight" thread.

Different situation, same argument.

If its easy and rewarding, it removes the need for other playstyles.

Challenging yourself should never be a requirement for enjoyment.

 

I loved the game shadow of mordor (first part) but have only played it 30 hours. Why? Because it was too easy.

On my second playthrough I played through "dead is dead, no skills" run and it was still kinda boring.

 

Shadow of war fixed this, because it implemented difficulty levels. So while its still not the most difficult game to beat, I at least died once or twice, making me feel humbled for once.

 

Same with 7d2d. I try not to use exploits... and play on the highest difficulty level... and still only died 20 times in 800 hours (13-16 of those were bugs/direwolves day 1/spawns in wasteland back in the day) and 3 of those were on my first playthrough when i didnt even know that there is such a thing as a "hordenight"

[stupid]

Hey peeps

I know a lot of you are frustrated about the delay in A17 arrival, The devs and testers are too !

 

But I wanted to share this with you all.

 

Whilst you may be thinking that no one is doing anything, I can tell you this

 

The devs are working 7 days a week to get this to you,

A17 Rocks and you will love it, or hate it, lol

 

As I send this QA leed is still checking bugs, some devs are still up and actively sorting them out !

 

We the testers. are working all hours to test and check builds, we also have streamlined the system so we get Live fixes instead of waiting for a total build.

we are all working balls out to get this to you, hang in there , It will be worth it

 

Also please lets not be nasty too anyone, we are all working hard to get this to you .

 

Lets keep it friendly, after all we all love this game

 

Glad to hear they're working hard on getting it released.

Hopefully none of your QA work involves grammar

[Benjiro]

I love electricity. I love the new animations and ragdoll and the vehicles. But the perksystem was what made 7d2d stand out to me. You actually became better in what you did. XP was a small help for perks that you wanted to level quickly and support perks like miner69/tyrannosaur.

 

Now... everything is beeing handled via xp. There is no linear progression. I can be lvl 100 toolsmith but have no other skills.

Its so sad... maybe once you really REALLY refine this system, I might retract this...

but for me, this new perk system has (already before playing) killed the 7d2d spirit.

I probably still enjoy the game. But... well... its always sad to see an old friend go.

 

I have the same issue with this.

 

Its not like 7D2D will not be playable and i am sure there will be perk that i love and hate, it just feels so strange system.

 

For me, 7D2D played more like old school Ultima Online, with skill progression. Yes, some people cheated by skill spamming, craft spamming. As i am sure most people will do with the new Perk/XP system ( spam X activity for maximum XP and perks ).

 

But in the process you lose part of the "love" for your character. The character is a extension of your gameplay. More focused on building, shows in your skills.

 

While people will argue that the new Perk/XP system will also reflect this, i disagree. Putting points into Skills is not something that is hard earned, a extension of your character his struggles. People will simply "cheat" and put points into whatever gives them the maximum return, even if that does not fit with their characters main activities.

 

Well, if building does not return good XP, you farm zombies for XP so you can put the points in skills that you need. In effect your character growth is totally out of balance. Then again, i always try to play one life characters to increase realism. That also explain my hatred for runners and dogs in the game because they can alpha strike you before you can react at times.

 

When i see how Items like glasses, suddenly give you +2 on Intelligence ( Joel + Ninja Stream from a few days ago ) and thus unlock higher perk levels, i am like "wtf". That is just like some WOW... What is next, power armor for +4 strength?

 

That is the problem with XP/Perk systems like this. It simplifies thing for the developers but also make developers more "hey, lets put X in the game" without thinking how it changes the game perception. A lot (most) of the perks are states changers, they are not unique or special.

 

Its like part of the soul of the game died and the developers have gone in a totally different direction. Yes, the game is still 7D2D but at the same time its not. Its also reflected in a lot of gameplay changes with hidden zombies, dungeon houses, zombie bosses... A lot of those changes is like somebody said: Lets stop being special and lets mainstream the game like all the other boring RPGs.

[Gazz]

That is the problem with XP/Perk systems like this. It simplifies thing for the developers but also make developers more "hey, lets put X in the game" without thinking how it changes the game perception. A lot (most) of the perks are states changers, they are not unique or special.

You have that backwards.

The old progression was a lot easier to do and with the exception of some recipe unlocks all of the perks were stat changers, they were not unique nor special.

[Viktoriusiii]

You have that backwards.

The old progression was a lot easier to do and with the exception of some recipe unlocks all of the perks were stat changers, they were not unique nor special.

 

They were special in the way that you earned them.

I am a sledgehammer/sniper guy, so i was always at close to 0 with other weapons. And whenever i 1hk a lumerjack on difficuly 6 it was because my char had done that... a lot! It felt like its a real person that at first needed 4 hits for a cheerleader and at the end was this berzerker killing Zombies with one swipe.

 

Its not WHAT it was, but how we got them.

 

Now i can kill 100 Zombies and be not any better at it, but miraculesly be the best trader without ever having to visit one.

 

THIS is what differenciates the two systems... the much hated word: immersion.

[mr.devolver]

Am I the only one who feels like the existence of this thread means just that the game will not get to us any time soon? I mean, if all goes so well and smoothly, why do we need so many reassurements instead of just getting the game? lol

[69WithAzombie]

Twigg, anymore updates? thx!

[Magneto555]

Thanks for the update, Twigg, it's good to hear that. Keep up the hard work, I'll wait patiently for the great release.

[saulysw]

It has taken at least about 3-6 months too long. Something to learn for next alpha.

 

I love 7D2D but I stopped playing it a fair while ago. I'm not bitter about this at all, and simply moved on to other games which interest me - of which there are many to enjoy. Some games are quick diversions that once played through are done - like for example "7 Billion Humans". Others draw you in with complex mechanics so after an update you find yourself playing all over again - like Rimworld or Oxygen Not Included. 7D2D is clearly in this second group and I am very much looking forward to firing up a new game with the new version, wiping my brow in the sun and trying not to get my ass handed to me by the first zombie I meet.

 

One thing that would REALLY suck though would be to have waited all this time only to find game-breaking bugs in the first few minutes of play. The QA on this version is really important, it really needs to run well for the vast majority of users or all hell will break loose. So, no pressure, but you have to get this one right. Best of luck.

[69WithAzombie]

It has taken at least about 3-6 months too long. Something to learn for next alpha.

 

I love 7D2D but I stopped playing it a fair while ago. I'm not bitter about this at all, and simply moved on to other games which interest me - of which there are many to enjoy. Some games are quick diversions that once played through are done - like for example "7 Billion Humans". Others draw you in with complex mechanics so after an update you find yourself playing all over again - like Rimworld or Oxygen Not Included. 7D2D is clearly in this second group and I am very much looking forward to firing up a new game with the new version, wiping my brow in the sun and trying not to get my ass handed to me by the first zombie I meet.

 

One thing that would REALLY suck though would be to have waited all this time only to find game-breaking bugs in the first few minutes of play. The QA on this version is really important, it really needs to run well for the vast majority of users or all hell will break loose. So, no pressure, but you have to get this one right. Best of luck.

 

I really hope 17 lives up the the hype and they learn a lot from these last few months. There is a lot of damage control and improvements to communication that need to be made. And as a huge fan I want the pimps to have a great relationship with the fans and learn and improve from past mistakes. I hope they have a strong enough team to make this the best possible game. But i feel the fan base burning out from innsane delays and awful communication. Pimps, step up your game! Its in all of our best interest!

[LuckyStar]

It has taken at least about 3-6 months too long. Something to learn for next alpha.

 

The QA on this version is really important, it really needs to run well for the vast majority of users or all hell will break loose. So, no pressure, but you have to get this one right...

 

 

Wasn't aware TFP's updates were on your schedule.

Thanks for the info.

 

Also, regarding the "Something to learn for next Alpha." comment;

Thanks for letting TFP know. I'm sure they'll crack the whip now.

Lazy buggers were probably just skating by right?

 

 

Kidding aside.

The update was required.

TFP could only delay it for so long.

A redesign and optimization would have come sooner or later.

[saulysw]

I was not suggesting that they are lazy developers - I know that they are not. In every Alpha there are many decisions on what is and isn't included, and a time cost associated. It seems to me that they were a bit too ambitious with this and the overly long delay is the result. You may be tempted to argue that it is all monolithic and could not be broken down further - please don't.

 

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was about the importance of QA in this release, to the OP who is directly involved with this.

[JCrook1028]

You may be tempted to argue that it is all monolithic and could not be broken down further - please don't.

 

Yea, let's all just ignore the facts.....

[LuckyStar]

Yea, let's all just ignore the facts.....

 

That's kind of the impression I got too.

"You may be tempted to shut down my nonsense with facts, data, and common sense... but don't... cuz then I can't continue."

 

Anyway saulysw,

don't take my post too seriously. Just messin' with ya.

 

 

My point is valid though.

This update was needed. That's the real meat of the issue.

Updating not only the game engine but the internal systems within the game to optimize it had to be done at some point.

Why later? Why not now? Well.... TFP decided now was a good time since A16.4 was such a good build.

I agree. It's one of my favourites.

 

I don't think this is a matter of "biting off more than they could chew" kinda thing.

More like they knew it was going to be bad and did their best to deal with it.

 

The only issue I have is the lack of communication since July.

If a project is going over time budget then communication needs to increase.

At least that's what they taught me in University when I was studying for my Masters Degree in Business.

[saulysw]

I believe they could have chosen to make significantly less changes in this alpha to make the turn around quicker. There are always choices and feature creep is a thing too. Yes, there were some pretty big and needed structural changes made, and these had knock on impacts. I do get that. They could have pushed some of that to the next alpha and got this one out the door something like 3 months ago instead.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone here, and I'm very pro-TFP dev team in general - but I do think the release delay is a bad thing and is largely self inflicted. It is a problem a lot of developers face at some point and only really gets fixed by setting a release schedule as a management priority. Even if they don't hit the release date exactly, as long as it is being discussed and considered it will more or less resolve itself. The whole "it will be done when it is done" mindset has the disadvantage of minimising this concern, and the ball just keeps on rolling longer than it otherwise should. I would not be surprised to hear Madmole come out after this release with some form of tighter schedule for the next alpha, to avoid repeating this problem. Let's see, eh? As it stands now, the QA team have a really hard job as there is so much new stuff to test.

 

Note : Most of what I am saying is MY OPINION and I am not stating this AS FACT. In terms of splitting alphas down to smaller quicker releases, only the devs themselves could argue this as FACT, and even then I would expect there to be lively debate amongst them. It is kind of irrelevant now anyway, it is what it is for this alpha.

[LuckyStar]

I believe they could have chosen to make significantly less changes in this alpha to make the turn around quicker. There are always choices and feature creep is a thing too. Yes, there were some pretty big and needed structural changes made, and these had knock on impacts. I do get that. They could have pushed some of that to the next alpha and got this one out the door something like 3 months ago instead.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone here, and I'm very pro-TFP dev team in general - but I do think the release delay is a bad thing and is largely self inflicted. It is a problem a lot of developers face at some point and only really gets fixed by setting a release schedule as a management priority. Even if they don't hit the release date exactly, as long as it is being discussed and considered it will more or less resolve itself. The whole "it will be done when it is done" mindset has the disadvantage of minimising this concern, and the ball just keeps on rolling longer than it otherwise should. I would not be surprised to hear Madmole come out after this release with some form of tighter schedule for the next alpha, to avoid repeating this problem. Let's see, eh? As it stands now, the QA team have a really hard job as there is so much new stuff to test.

 

What is your background?

 

Do you have a degree in a related field?

- Technology

- Business Admin

- Organizational Behaviour

 

Etc...

 

Just curious where statements like "I believe they could have chosen...." are coming from.

[Lithin]

Its not all black and white but i get where saulysw is coming from.

I got a prince2 project management cert and are currently CIO for a share economy company in Denmark and are currently managing 2 different development teams, one that is working with our machine learning and another that is developing our app.

 

You do set timelines and i'll bet that the "we are done when we are done"-public approach is so nobody is jumping at the gun when a deadline gets pushed. (remember when Madmole stated he hoped they would have it done by august?). When they give us their little finger, we take the hand. Thats how it is with online communities. You get a vocal minority that demands.

 

Development takes time, even if you don't have scopecreep. I bet they got internal deadlines or sprints and just chose not to share them with us to avoid a further deadline push. Bugs happen and i bet the transformation to the new Unity engine havent been easy.

If they released a bugridden A17 in august, everyone would have been up in arms with "what have you done for the past year".

Not saying it couldn't have been handled better, but assuming that Madmole and crew is a bunch of software development hippies, they are trying to manage expectations.

Its easier to manage expectations when you know your product might not launch at a specific time.

[saulysw]

@LuckyStar : Degree in information technology, career as IT Manager for 30 years including direct involvement in a number of software development projects. I've done my fair share of coding. I think I'm allowed to have an opinion regardless, as are you.

[OzHawkeye]

@LuckyStar : Degree in information technology, career as IT Manager for 30 years including direct involvement in a number of software development projects. I've done my fair share of coding. I think I'm allowed to have an opinion regardless, as are you.

 

Well, the Pimps have already said that this Alpha has a HELL of a lot of content in it, and perhaps more than they would normally squeeze into a single Alpha cycle. It's also come on the back of a major engine update, which I note, some other developers of Unity games in my very own library have stumbled over in a major way, including one major, often referenced title around here I see is rolling back the changes completely.

 

I don't think anyone saulysw, is saying this delay between A16 and A17 is ideal. I'm pretty sure the Pimps wouldn't have wanted it either.

 

That said, they've delivered sixteen Alpha's already, and if there's an exceptional delay in one Alpha, for good and easily seen reasons, then I think people should be cutting them the slack they deserve and let them be to work at it, and get it out the door as soon as they can.

 

PS: I'm not trying to say here that you're not already doing that, just adding to the discussion in general and stating my view of the exceptional A17 delay.