Some Steam Charts

[Poojam]

You're assuming there that the vast majority (in fact, by your numbers something like 99.99% of the playerbase is PVP'ers).

 

I STAGGERINGLY highly doubt that.

 

Stop putting words in my mouth. You're almost as bad as Gaz's over simplification/strawmanning. I didn't say the vast majority of the millions that bought the game are pvp'ers. I can only confidently say after looking at Roland's steam chart, 99.99% of the player base ain't playing the game anymore. I can say that there are massive numbers of players that play PVP games, and I think due to the culture shift that happened around A10/A11 it drove a significant portion of the people that bought the game away. They likely lost a lot of potential sales growth due to the limitations surrounding competitive play as well. I know I wouldn't buy the game today, even if everything they have done in A17 works great.

 

Roland's OP

"Interested to hear analysis and see more comparison charts with games that have done better or worse than 7 Days to Die and why you believe that to be the case. "

[LuckyStar]

Okay well.. I am going to flat out DISAGREE with this whole PvP needing to be in this game nonsense.

 

It does NOT need to be in here.

 

If you want that experience go play PUBG or whatever.

 

The focus on this game is and ALWAYS has been PvE.

At no point did TFP stray from that path NOR did they ever mislead the public into thinking otherwise.

 

MM did mention that IF, and that's a big "if", they turn their focus to PvP it'll be the last thing they work on.

 

Since I'm being completely candid, I find companies that take on the PvE challenge deserve far more credit.

It's extremely difficult to make a good AI and a game format that creates an environment conducive to a

real challenge to the Human intellect.

 

Add to that a Voxel world that's already using a lot of resources and you've got a SERIOUS challenge.

 

Congrats to TFP for no only taking that on but pushing the bar for the entire industry.

While the AI has room for improvement [and a couple bugs/exploits] it's still fun and challenging.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the new improvements in A17 and as far as the PvPers.....

 

....You paid how much and want the world for it? Come on!

 

------------

 

**EDIT**

I made this post before my first coffee and now it's sounds a bit aggressive.

Sorry if I came across all grumpy like.

Still feel the same though.

 

Have a nice day....... aaaahh.... coffee.

[Poojam]

Okay well.. I am going to flat out DISAGREE with this whole PvP needing to be in this game nonsense.

 

It does NOT need to be in here.

 

If you want that experience go play PUBG or whatever.

 

The focus on this game is and ALWAYS has been PvE.

At no point did TFP stray from that path NOR did they ever mislead the public into thinking otherwise.

 

MM did mention that IF, and that's a big "if", they turn their focus to PvP it'll be the last thing they work on.

 

Since I'm being completely candid, I find companies that take on the PvE challenge deserve far more credit.

It's extremely difficult to make a good AI and a game format that creates an environment conducive to a

real challenge to the Human intellect.

 

Add to that a Voxel world that's already using a lot of resources and you've got a SERIOUS challenge.

 

Congrats to TFP for no only taking that on but pushing the bar for the entire industry.

While the AI has room for improvement [and a couple bugs/exploits] it's still fun and challenging.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the new improvements in A17 and as far as the PvPers.....

 

....You paid how much and want the world for it? Come on!

 

------------

 

**EDIT**

I made this post before my first coffee and now it's sounds a bit aggressive.

Sorry if I came across all grumpy like.

Still feel the same though.

 

Have a nice day....... aaaahh.... coffee.

 

Ah yes. Thanks for reminding me that why I think the population isn't so hot, is out of scope or simply doesn't matter. Thanks for the input. Haven't heard that before.

[Jedo]

Re-read the last sentence from the OP.

 

"Interested to hear analysis and see more comparison charts with games that have done better or worse than 7 Days to Die and why you believe that to be the case. "

 

Oy vey.

 

I'm not asking why people are talking about it in this thread; and it's pretty disingenuous to pretend that this line of thinking only came about because Roland started this thread. Hiding behind Roland's invitation seems like a cowardly attempt to avoid answering the simple question.

 

If you must, pretend that I have started a new thread asking the following question:

 

Why do you, the customer, care whether TFP sells more copies of 7dtd or has a large player base for years to come?

[Damocles]

PUBG and Fortnight are symmetrical games. Players start with the same chances into a session. Just as other arena shooters. Just with the arena shrinking here.

7dtd is a typical asymmetric game. Player have vastly different starting condition in a PvP fight. PvP in such a setup is inherently unfair (not a fault of the design, but simply because players have had different playtimes added up).

 

Its one the the main reasons why PvP will never be as fun to the majority of players. And thus should not be the main focus of the game.

 

Also for playernumbers: its not a "Unity" problem. Its a basic networking problem. As the game is a voxel game with lots of changing elements, and a large area as playfield. All this adds up in the network traffic. A block (or several hundreds) placed on the other side of the world by one client, still need to be communicated to every client at one point.

Shooters are way less heavy in that regard, having less moving parts. They focus on quick package exchange.

[Roland]

I think it is great that TFP has avoided the PVP-centric pathway to development. Even if it means that 7 Days to Die is forever niche and never reaches 100k people playing concurrently it can still be wildly successful and a great launching point for TFP as a studio. There are a ton of games on the market that do PVP first and foremost and SP as an afterthought. This game not only puts SP first and foremost but also cooperative teamwork gameplay that is frankly amazing and fulfilling when playing with family and friends.

 

I totally agree that 7 Days to Die could've had a much larger footprint but that would've changed the community and the game in ways that I personally think would've meant a more superficial SP and MP PvE experience.

[LuckyStar]

I think it is great that TFP has avoided the PVP-centric pathway to development. Even if it means that 7 Days to Die is forever niche and never reaches 100k people playing concurrently it can still be wildly successful and a great launching point for TFP as a studio. There are a ton of games on the market that do PVP first and foremost and SP as an afterthought. This game not only puts SP first and foremost but also cooperative teamwork gameplay that is frankly amazing and fulfilling when playing with family and friends.

 

I totally agree that 7 Days to Die could've had a much larger footprint but that would've changed the community and the game in ways that I personally think would've meant a more superficial SP and MP PvE experience.

 

Firstly, I agree with everything you just said.

 

Let's build on that then.

 

So we know this is "primarily" a SP PvE game.

Once we accept that then we've got to also accept the responsibilities that come with that style of game.

 

The current climate in the industry, thanks to the Evil A-holes [or EA for short], the SP market is under attack.

That's forced developers to up the ante a LOT more than PvP games.

 

Now they are expected to have great story lines and decent voice acting.

Players are coming to appreciate it as well aren't they.

 

A live performance of the voice actors from "The Last of Us" doing all the character lines sold out.

That really tells you how much people come to "love" a good story.

 

If we're going to give TFP a pass on PvP stuff and all the responsibilities that come with honouring that clientele,

don't we then also have to expect TFP to come through with what has come to be Industry Standard?

 

I think rather than seeing 7DTD focus on PvP, they should hire an excellent writer and give us a compelling story.

 

THAT is how you win awards.

THAT is how you make people fall in love with your game.

THAT is how a SP game gets a large community.

 

Or.... I could be completely wrong.

I'll accept that.

 

Just an opinion.

[OldManBrian]

...

I think rather than seeing 7DTD focus on PvP, they should hire an excellent writer and give us a compelling story.

 

THAT is how you win awards.

THAT is how you make people fall in love with your game.

THAT is how a SP game gets a large community.

 

Or.... I could be completely wrong.

I'll accept that.

 

Just an opinion.

 

I completely disagree with this. The game isn't lacking award winning story (which requires TONS of custom animation) or voice acting, the game is lacking stuff to do.

 

The most common reason I've seen people bounce off of this game is because they can't self-motivate and get bored or don't have a drive to do anything.

.

 

A lot of what the game really needs is already being worked on:

 

• Complex Cooperative Quests
  
• NPCs (Bandits, Traders, Survivors, etc)
  
• Dialog
  
• More POIs
  
• More Content (Weapons, vehicles, items, etc)
  
• RPG Elements
  

 

Aside from that, there are a few more things that would really help:

 

• Radiant Quests and Events (Much like Skyrim where the quests and events come to the player)
  
• Radiant AI (NPCs doing their own thing, "building" new POIs, stripping resouces, looting, etc)
  
• Optional over-arching Story ala Skyrim that you can visit at your leisure
  

.

[PumpkinKing]

[*]Optional over-arching Story ala Skyrim that you can visit at your leisure

.

 

Eh, I don't know if the game really needs a story. I mean maybe a loose series of quests type of thing, but I don't think a story would really benefit the game. I totally agree that the game needs more to do though. I think more NPCs should definitely be a priority, and maybe some better animals. Besides the zombies the world doesn't feel super alive to me.

[Kam R.]

Oy vey.

 

I'm not asking why people are talking about it in this thread; and it's pretty disingenuous to pretend that this line of thinking only came about because Roland started this thread. Hiding behind Roland's invitation seems like a cowardly attempt to avoid answering the simple question.

 

If you must, pretend that I have started a new thread asking the following question:

 

Why do you, the customer, care whether TFP sells more copies of 7dtd or has a large player base for years to come?

 

I'd say the reasons are pretty obvious – They're selfish reasons and there is nothing wrong with that:

TFP make the game the customer loves, so the customer wants TFP to stay in business and keep working on the game.

And the Player of the game –The Co-Op player specifically– loves the game so much, they dread the day the game dies and they have to play alone or move on to another game.

 

Therefore everyone described above tries in their own way to support the game. Some people go full "fanboi" and argue with the critics on forums til their fingers fall off from typing. Some people create mods. Some people run servers and organize server communities. And some people who (think they) know "the biz" try to influence TFP with their unsolicited wisdom. ^^

 

In any case, however fruitful or useful these efforts of the fans are, it's just your typical fandom's passions at work.

[Poojam]

I'd say the reasons are pretty obvious – They're selfish reasons and there is nothing wrong with that:

TFP make the game the customer loves, so the customer wants TFP to stay in business and keep working on the game.

And the Player of the game –The Co-Op player specifically– loves the game so much, they dread the day the game dies and they have to play alone or move on to another game.

 

Therefore everyone described above tries in their own way to support the game. Some people go full "fanboi" and argue with the critics on forums til their fingers fall off from typing. Some people create mods. Some people run servers and organize server communities. And some people who (think they) know "the biz" try to influence TFP with their unsolicited wisdom. ^^

 

In any case, however fruitful or useful these efforts of the fans are, it's just your typical fandom's passions at work.

 

Well said.

 

I fall primarily in the "create mods, run servers, and organize server communities" and enjoy "trying to influence TFP with their unsolicited wisdom". But frankly speaking, I'm tired of everyone I know passing it over or quitting after a month. The reason has a common theme. They just don't want to work so hard for such limited action in returns. I can login to a 35 man server, 8k map, run around looting towns within 3k of 0,0 for 6 hours and still not find anyone to interact with. You can't hear anyone. There is rarely a reason for people to compete over a resource. I've got over 2000 hours in game, and 90% of that is on large multiplayer servers. Based on the number of people I've seen come and go, there is a market for a slower, world building, survival PVP, with crafting, and story etc. It's just - this ain't it.

[Roland]

I can login to a 35 man server, 8k map, run around looting towns within 3k of 0,0 for 6 hours and still not find anyone to interact with.

 

Send out friend requests and you'll find them if they accept. Work together and you'll interact.

[Guppycur]

I'm with Kam on this one.

[SnowDog1942]

Firstly, I agree with everything you just said.

 

Let's build on that then.

 

So we know this is "primarily" a SP PvE game.

Once we accept that then we've got to also accept the responsibilities that come with that style of game.

 

The current climate in the industry, thanks to the Evil A-holes [or EA for short], the SP market is under attack.

That's forced developers to up the ante a LOT more than PvP games.

 

Now they are expected to have great story lines and decent voice acting.

Players are coming to appreciate it as well aren't they.

 

 

 

A live performance of the voice actors from "The Last of Us" doing all the character lines sold out.

That really tells you how much people come to "love" a good story.

 

If we're going to give TFP a pass on PvP stuff and all the responsibilities that come with honouring that clientele,

don't we then also have to expect TFP to come through with what has come to be Industry Standard?

 

I think rather than seeing 7DTD focus on PvP, they should hire an excellent writer and give us a compelling story.

 

THAT is how you win awards.

THAT is how you make people fall in love with your game.

THAT is how a SP game gets a large community.

 

Or.... I could be completely wrong.

I'll accept that.

 

Just an opinion.

 

I personally love the fact that there isn't tons of dialogue or cut scenes. I wanna play a game, not watch a movie. I'd hate for them to waste their budget on hiring Morgan Freeman to do voice overs or Stephen King to write a story, when they can pay for another Developer that puts actual content in like Faatal and all the others.

 

Last of Us... no interest in watching that movie and playing a mini game around it.

Red Dead Redemption 2, no interest in watching that movie either.

 

Lastly, with both of those movies - once you watched them.. you watched them. Zero rewatchability. I'll take amazing Random Gen over Deep Talking Pro Voice actors and yet another zombie story any day.

[Poojam]

Send out friend requests and you'll find them if they accept. Work together and you'll interact.

 

Oldest trick in the book. I want to find them to kill them, and steal their stuff. Or I want to track them back to their base, and steal all their stuff. Basically, everything that Madmole et al would hate having to suffer through because I think they stink at it. Heck, Madmole got owned by a pig. I suspect that is the real reason PVP is "not supported". Hillary levels of butthurt.