A16 - STARVATION Mod for A16

[Katlima]

Comparing forged steel production

 

Hey there!

 

Mortelentus, I just read your post. Busy weeks? I know wishing someone less busy weeks can backfire, so instead I'm wishing you fun at your work, lots of motivation and the feeling it's rewarding.

 

The reason I came here today is to talk about steel production. I've not been using my smith for some time and while browsing the recipes, I noticed he can craft forged steel. I gave him some resources to try it out and soon noticed two things I didn't expect:

 

First thing, he takes ages to process the raw materials. I wonder what kind of forge he's using there, because it takes literally days to complete a single stack of forged steel. At least it's cheaper, right? Well, yes and no! 1 forged steel made in the big forge costs 10 steel, 5 clay and 1 coal, the smith NPC needs 5 lumps of clay and 10 scrapsteel. So I'm saving a piece of coal with every ingot? Not quite. There's a difference between the coal in the inventory and the coal in the forge, it takes one piece of coal for 5 coal in the forge, so you're saving 1/5 coal, which is a slight discount, considering you already need 10/5 or 2 pieces of coal for the scrapsteel, if you're making it from ores. On the other hand, the same is true for clay and instead of 5/5 clay, one piece of clay, you need 5 pieces. That's five times the cost in clay. Might this be an oversight? I'd like to see a recipe saving a bit more material, since upkeep and production of the smith station is already a lot more expensive. What about 100 scrapsteel and 5 clay make 10 ingots of forged steel in the same time that is needed for one right now?

[xyth]

Hey there!

 

Mortelentus, I just read your post. Busy weeks? I know wishing someone less busy weeks can backfire, so instead I'm wishing you fun at your work, lots of motivation and the feeling it's rewarding.

 

The reason I came here today is to talk about steel production. I've not been using my smith for some time and while browsing the recipes, I noticed he can craft forged steel. I gave him some resources to try it out and soon noticed two things I didn't expect:

 

First thing, he takes ages to process the raw materials. I wonder what kind of forge he's using there, because it takes literally days to complete a single stack of forged steel. At least it's cheaper, right? Well, yes and no! 1 forged steel made in the big forge costs 10 steel, 5 clay and 1 coal, the smith NPC needs 5 lumps of clay and 10 scrapsteel. So I'm saving a piece of coal with every ingot? Not quite. There's a difference between the coal in the inventory and the coal in the forge, it takes one piece of coal for 5 coal in the forge, so you're saving 1/5 coal, which is a slight discount, considering you already need 10/5 or 2 pieces of coal for the scrapsteel, if you're making it from ores. On the other hand, the same is true for clay and instead of 5/5 clay, one piece of clay, you need 5 pieces. That's five times the cost in clay. Might this be an oversight? I'd like to see a recipe saving a bit more material, since upkeep and production of the smith station is already a lot more expensive. What about 100 scrapsteel and 5 clay make 10 ingots of forged steel in the same time that is needed for one right now?

I never rebalanced the Smith when i did the steel conversation. I will take a look at it. Thanks for pointing this out.

[xyth]

Check the collision property in the xml for those blocks. Missle is arrows and bolts. If you want them not to collide on those blocks, remove missle from the collision list.

[Katlima]

First of all, thanks for taking a look at the steel crafting.

 

Check the collision property in the xml for those blocks. Missle is arrows and bolts. If you want them not to collide on those blocks, remove missle from the collision list.

 

I'm a total noob at programming, but there's something about the logic that escapes me: if the collision is decided by the missile that's fired at the block and nothing else, how is it possible a standard crossbow can shoot through trussings and the advanced crossbow can't while using the same type of ammo?

[narimbur]

It's in custom C# code. We will look into changing the key for a future build.

 

is there maybe a chance to get this insert-dialog with a console-command? it's frustration to have a full box of extensions without using them.

 

 

- do you plan to upgrade the unity3d-models with transparencies? on OSX and Linux all models with transparencies are just magenta without texture . worst thing is the smithing-crafter with steam around him. all new plants, except strawberry, some of the animals, snake, bull, one of the tigers, one of the hyena, also electric effect of electric bat, smoke of joints and cigars, fog around the curch with NPC's, smog over the reactor,

[PurgatoryWolf]

First of all, thanks for taking a look at the steel crafting.

 

 

 

I'm a total noob at programming, but there's something about the logic that escapes me: if the collision is decided by the missile that's fired at the block and nothing else, how is it possible a standard crossbow can shoot through trussings and the advanced crossbow can't while using the same type of ammo?

 

Vanilla game you can shoot through those blocks. Advanced Crossbow is not in the vanilla game. I'd assume its similar to why the new guns have trouble hitting vanilla animals.

 

Tho I could have sworn we've shot through frames and trussing on the mod... try Iron Bars if you need something solid to shoot through? It's been out go to.

[Katlima]

Vanilla game you can shoot through those blocks. Advanced Crossbow is not in the vanilla game. I'd assume its similar to why the new guns have trouble hitting vanilla animals.

 

Tho I could have sworn we've shot through frames and trussing on the mod... try Iron Bars if you need something solid to shoot through? It's been out go to.

 

 

Yeah, you can shoot through trussings with a lot of my preferred weapons, luckily. Iron Bars! They are fantastic, I love them and use them a lot. Sometimes you specifically go for something block-shaped or ramp-shaped though. The trussings are a good option, because they take a lot more hits than scrap frames. They are also very good early on, because you can forge several trussing blocks for the price and time of a single piece of iron bars.

[TDurden1937]

.50 cal mount bug

 

Placed mount and .50 gun on mount. Entered to fire mount. Cannot escape mount. At first went to another weapon on hot bar and weapon disappeared, and I was out of mount. Then tried again and I could not leave mount at all. Even after restarting game and destroying block I was standing on. All, 7d2d and starvation mod are current as of this date.

 

Edit: teleport didn't work. Suicide did. However, now strange things happening. Cannot get into inventory page when standing. Cannot move.

Edited March 10, 2018 by TDurden1937 (see edit history)

[PurgatoryWolf]

Placed mount and .50 gun on mount. Entered to fire mount. Cannot escape mount. At first went to another weapon on hot bar and weapon disappeared, and I was out of mount. Then tried again and I could not leave mount at all. Even after restarting game and destroying block I was standing on. All, 7d2d and starvation mod are current as of this date.

 

Edit: teleport didn't work. Suicide did. However, now strange things happening. Cannot get into inventory page when standing. Cannot move.

 

Pressing E for us works, iirc.

[xyth]

First of all, thanks for taking a look at the steel crafting.

 

 

 

I'm a total noob at programming, but there's something about the logic that escapes me: if the collision is decided by the missile that's fired at the block and nothing else, how is it possible a standard crossbow can shoot through trussings and the advanced crossbow can't while using the same type of ammo?

My suggested fix is what works in vanilla. If that doesn't work for custom weapons I will need to look at the C# code to see what it's doing. Lots of Starvation custom code dates back to A14 and doesn't get updated unless issues are found in new game versions. How collision is handled is a combination of the models collider and what base code is hijacked to enable the new projectile. Enabling new features outside of simple xml edits is complex and full of potential for odd incompatibility. Also, as we do this for fun, and bug fixing is not fun, so non critical bugs don't get priority attention, nor does support for non windows platforms. We hope you understand.

[Kandoral]

We got a big problem with our animals. They always bug through the walls.... it is impossible to have them inside because when we are gone for 10-15 minutes they are everywhere (or completely gone) again

[Goverman]

Hello dear developers and players! I have a question for you. I have survived with my brother for 100 days. Approximately after 80-88 days, at last monsters and other pleasant creatures began to come to us. BUT IN NUMBER, NOT MORE ONE OR TWO! is there any file where we can edit the appearance of new mutants? We want a serious survival, where the slightest error is punishable by death. I really hope for your help. Thank you!

 

I would also like to know where you can edit the appearance of the bases of bandits and walking bandits. until about the middle of the day there were a huge number of them, both on the bases themselves, and roaming the world. But now there are none at all! help me please!

Edited March 11, 2018 by Goverman (see edit history)

[PurgatoryWolf]

We got a big problem with our animals. They always bug through the walls.... it is impossible to have them inside because when we are gone for 10-15 minutes they are everywhere (or completely gone) again

 

I solved (most) of our magic animal problems by making the farm walls full solid blocks all the way around then (top open). you can add a ladder (bottom rung missing) to get in and out of the pins. We just use a door, and they seem to be okay for the most part, except the goats, those evil, genius goats.

[Katlima]

Hello dear developers and players! I have a question for you. I have survived with my brother for 100 days. Approximately after 80-88 days, at last monsters and other pleasant creatures began to come to us. BUT IN NUMBER, NOT MORE ONE OR TWO! is there any file where we can edit the appearance of new mutants? We want a serious survival, where the slightest error is punishable by death. I really hope for your help. Thank you!

 

I would also like to know where you can edit the appearance of the bases of bandits and walking bandits. until about the middle of the day there were a huge number of them, both on the bases themselves, and roaming the world. But now there are none at all! help me please!

 

Congratz to playing good coop and turtling in so successfully. You likely have much experience with fps/survival games. Sadly, I have zero knowledge about xml editing and I'm sure you already researched these keywords in google. I do have a suggestion though: what ever changes you're going to do, it's likely that you will outsmart them again and again with time or that you crank up the levers so much that it becomes just plain unfair. Outsmarting real intelligence is much harder, so you could try and find a server with emphasis on pvp.

 

We got a big problem with our animals. They always bug through the walls.... it is impossible to have them inside because when we are gone for 10-15 minutes they are everywhere (or completely gone) again

 

No, it's not impossible. Mortelentus already gave some hints about how pen design should be made in the last update note posting: few obstacles, enough space, plain walls and floor. A rather safe design would be a 5x5 two deep "swimming pool" with double walls of full cube blocks, the trough placed dead center. Like water, animals will not bug into double walls of full blocks. This does not mean your animals are completely safe from suddenly disappearing entirely, though. That's something that sadly just happens now and then, but rarely enough to not stop you from leaving your base for 10 minutes or have you stop using animals altogether. Always make sure you have a Noah's Ark type of storage box as a backup. Oh, and of course have this indoors or build a good roof, because of the season changes.

 

My suggested fix is what works in vanilla. If that doesn't work for custom weapons I will need to look at the C# code to see what it's doing. Lots of Starvation custom code dates back to A14 and doesn't get updated unless issues are found in new game versions. How collision is handled is a combination of the models collider and what base code is hijacked to enable the new projectile. Enabling new features outside of simple xml edits is complex and full of potential for odd incompatibility. Also, as we do this for fun, and bug fixing is not fun, so non critical bugs don't get priority attention, nor does support for non windows platforms. We hope you understand.

 

Yeah, I totally agree with giving high priority to major bugs, especially if there are simple workarounds in game without editing anything (different weapon, different blocks). I'd also say the steel production I mentioned earlier is nothing of great importance. I guess what's important is also a matter of personal opinion, a little bit. The most important fix for me right now would be the farmer npc.

[xyth]

 

Yeah, I totally agree with giving high priority to major bugs, especially if there are simple workarounds in game without editing anything (different weapon, different blocks). I'd also say the steel production I mentioned earlier is nothing of great importance. I guess what's important is also a matter of personal opinion, a little bit. The most important fix for me right now would be the farmer npc.

 

Bug fixes submitted for next patch, hopefully drops next weekend:

 

1. fix of IcyFarmerstorage, should last about 2 realtime hours before needing more ice (may replace this with another method later),

2. balanced clay usage for smiths crafting of forged steel

3. Rhinos will be tougher to kill

4. Goats give correct meat on harvest

5. Rubber needs less scrap rubber to craft, and XRad items need less rubber to craft

6. Very slight reduction in gauge drops...

7. Doubled change of glands dropping on boss destroy event

 

There will probably be more fixes but I wanted to list the fixes that are commited for the next patch. We have major new gameplay features in testing as well, so it will be a very cool new release when it happens.

[xyth]

Yeah, you can shoot through trussings with a lot of my preferred weapons, luckily. Iron Bars! They are fantastic, I love them and use them a lot. Sometimes you specifically go for something block-shaped or ramp-shaped though. The trussings are a good option, because they take a lot more hits than scrap frames. They are also very good early on, because you can forge several trussing blocks for the price and time of a single piece of iron bars.

 

No one ever mentions Steel Bars. I made those special for Starvation, and unlike IronBars, they can be looted and repaired "through". This was done by placing the model collider only on the center section of the bars, so there is a gap on each end which doesn't have a collider that impedes looting and fixing blocks below. I use these as a floor on horde nights so i can repair the structural supports below and loot as time allows. They also hold up well to cop vomit, though wont protect you from it. Give them a try.

[xyth]

Hello dear developers and players! I have a question for you. I have survived with my brother for 100 days. Approximately after 80-88 days, at last monsters and other pleasant creatures began to come to us. BUT IN NUMBER, NOT MORE ONE OR TWO! is there any file where we can edit the appearance of new mutants? We want a serious survival, where the slightest error is punishable by death. I really hope for your help. Thank you!

 

I would also like to know where you can edit the appearance of the bases of bandits and walking bandits. until about the middle of the day there were a huge number of them, both on the bases themselves, and roaming the world. But now there are none at all! help me please!

 

There are two kinds of bandits in Starvation. The old type are not very dangerous and hang out in certain POIs like the church and the Traitor's trader POI. Use cover to approach them and then they are easy kills. The newer "bandits" are a boss with a plasma rifle and his sidekick, a gal with a MP5. They are more dangerous, but only spawn in or near the wasteland. The girl isn't a tough kill, but the boss is a challenge as he can vaporize a rock your hiding behind in 1 hit. I find running away is a good strategy for dealing with him.

 

If you want to increase monster spawning, that's done in the gamestages.xml, and the entitygroups.xml. There are posts in the modding forum discussing how to edit those.

Edited March 11, 2018 by xyth (see edit history)

[xyth]

First of all, thanks for taking a look at the steel crafting.

 

 

 

I'm a total noob at programming, but there's something about the logic that escapes me: if the collision is decided by the missile that's fired at the block and nothing else, how is it possible a standard crossbow can shoot through trussings and the advanced crossbow can't while using the same type of ammo?

 

If you or someone wants to test a fix for the crossbow, add this property line to Action0 of the smallcrossbow:

 

<property name="Hitmask_override" value="Arrow" />

 

Let me know if that solves your problem and I'll submit it to the next patch. I just don't have time to test this right now, so thanks in advance for your help.

[PurgatoryWolf]

6. Very slight reduction in gauge drops...

 

Yay to everything except this, lolol... We're 444 days in, and I think me and my room mate have found maybe 4.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

No one ever mentions Steel Bars. I made those special for Starvation, and unlike IronBars, they can be looted and repaired "through". This was done by placing the model collider only on the center section of the bars, so there is a gap on each end which doesn't have a collider that impedes looting and fixing blocks below. I use these as a floor on horde nights so i can repair the structural supports below and loot as time allows. They also hold up well to cop vomit, though wont protect you from it. Give them a try.

 

Steel bars?? I'd use them if I had known about them! where to make? how have i missed these? lol

Edited March 12, 2018 by PurgatoryWolf (see edit history)

[Katlima]

If you or someone wants to test a fix for the crossbow, add this property line to Action0 of the smallcrossbow:

 

<property name="Hitmask_override" value="Arrow" />

 

Let me know if that solves your problem and I'll submit it to the next patch. I just don't have time to test this right now, so thanks in advance for your help.

 

Hey, I'd try and test this in an instant, but what's keeping me is that I recently started over and haven't yet acquired an advanced crossbow for testing purposes. Also, I'm a noob at programming to the extent that I don't even know what file you mean. I hope someone else can do this.

 

No one ever mentions Steel Bars. I made those special for Starvation, and unlike IronBars, they can be looted and repaired "through". This was done by placing the model collider only on the center section of the bars, so there is a gap on each end which doesn't have a collider that impedes looting and fixing blocks below. I use these as a floor on horde nights so i can repair the structural supports below and loot as time allows. They also hold up well to cop vomit, though wont protect you from it. Give them a try.

 

What? They are great! They are elegant and go well as a hand railing and balconies for a mediterranean style white house with archway entries. They are special in the way they rotate too and make some designs possible, no other block type can do.

 

I will NOT use them for my bloodmoon tower platform, however. I tried them out and the way all the fine bars' edges appear with their shadows when moving. It's busy. They can't be painted either, so they are very dark if you have no light, making it hard to see if they are still there. This is no problem though, I'm perfectly fine with the iron version. They are a lot cheaper and the additional hitpoints of the steel bars are just not necessary. Iron bars as a platform don't die because they are hit, they die because the supporting blocks get hit.

 

Of course if you use them in a way to loot through them, in arm's reach of the zombies or maybe as a "wall", then all their benefits will make them the better choice. It's just that I personally don't build like that.

 

Bug fixes submitted for next patch, hopefully drops next weekend:

 

1. fix of IcyFarmerstorage, should last about 2 realtime hours before needing more ice (may replace this with another method later),

2. balanced clay usage for smiths crafting of forged steel

3. Rhinos will be tougher to kill

4. Goats give correct meat on harvest

5. Rubber needs less scrap rubber to craft, and XRad items need less rubber to craft

6. Very slight reduction in gauge drops...

7. Doubled change of glands dropping on boss destroy event

 

There will probably be more fixes but I wanted to list the fixes that are commited for the next patch. We have major new gameplay features in testing as well, so it will be a very cool new release when it happens.

 

Oh wow, thank you very much!

1. Awesome! Thank you thank you thank you!

2. Thanks for investing the time into this

3. Oh... oh... time to stock up on splints!

4. Wasn't meat always the same type no matter what animal you harvested? Is chevon the only special type of meat added and are there recipes for that?

5. This is great news and a very welcome balancing change. Rubber has been difficult to get in quantities required for the x rad gear even before the addition of the beekeeper outfit. I can see people more likely to invest here

6. Why, what was the issue? People spamming small generators or people getting enough for the moonshine too easily? Look, the generator quest is an obstacle in the quest chain that leads up to building a beacon and farmer npc. People not wanting to build those things more than once will wait till they got the quest for that, leading to less games where survivors are actively used. If the early moonshine was the issue, how about leaving gauge drops the same and just increase the gauges required for the moonshine to 4?

7. So 2x0 is still 0 right? Hahaha, just kidding. The year is young, maybe someone will get a gland in 2018, we'll see. The hunt is on!

Edited March 12, 2018 by Katlima (see edit history)

[Goverman]

There are two kinds of bandits in Starvation. The old type are not very dangerous and hang out in certain POIs like the church and the Traitor's trader POI. Use cover to approach them and then they are easy kills. The newer "bandits" are a boss with a plasma rifle and his sidekick, a gal with a MP5. They are more dangerous, but only spawn in or near the wasteland. The girl isn't a tough kill, but the boss is a challenge as he can vaporize a rock your hiding behind in 1 hit. I find running away is a good strategy for dealing with him.

 

If you want to increase monster spawning, that's done in the gamestages.xml, and the entitygroups.xml. There are posts in the modding forum discussing how to edit those.

 

 

could you share a link? my brain explodes from an overabundance of information!

[narimbur]

If you or someone wants to test a fix for the crossbow, add this property line to Action0 of the smallcrossbow:

 

<property name="Hitmask_override" value="Arrow" />

 

Let me know if that solves your problem and I'll submit it to the next patch. I just don't have time to test this right now, so thanks in advance for your help.

 

I just tested it. Now the advanced crossbow is able to shot through trussings.

[War3zuk]

Ok Ive installed this to a server, Server master files & started everything seems fine BUT......

 

Ive turned off spoilage, Sanity in the correct xml yet there still active on the server ?

Ive read the pistol book yet every time i join the server its saying i havent read the book

Ive shot 20 rounds from a pistol with plenty of health only to find I cant shoot the gun any more, Pressing the trigger does nothing & makes no sound...?

Gun keeps breaking & then cant be repaired even after reading the book ? WTF mechanic is this ?

 

 

HOW do I disable whats mentioned above on this MOD so I can enjoy playing it..... ?

 

any help please as id like to be able to play the mod...

 

Enityclasses.xml

<property name="sanity" value="False" />

<property name="quests" value="true" />

<property name="spoilage" value="False" />

<property name="disease" value="False" />

 

Yet still active

 

Can someone let me know how to disable the stupid mechanic that breaks my gun & insists I re read the same book again ? thnks

Edited March 12, 2018 by Tallon (see edit history)

[xyth]

I just tested it. Now the advanced crossbow is able to shot through trussings.

 

Thanks for validating this. I will commit the change into the next patch.

 

I'll backout the gauge reduction. Apparently I'm the only one that has too many of them.

[PurgatoryWolf]

Ok Ive installed this to a server, Server master files & started everything seems fine BUT......

 

Ive turned off spoilage, Sanity in the correct xml yet there still active on the server ?

Ive read the pistol book yet every time i join the server its saying i havent read the book

Ive shot 20 rounds from a pistol with plenty of health only to find I cant shoot the gun any more, Pressing the trigger does nothing & makes no sound...?

Gun keeps breaking & then cant be repaired even after reading the book ? WTF mechanic is this ?

 

 

HOW do I disable whats mentioned above on this MOD so I can enjoy playing it..... ?

 

any help please as id like to be able to play the mod...

 

Enityclasses.xml

<property name="sanity" value="False" />

<property name="quests" value="true" />

<property name="spoilage" value="False" />

<property name="disease" value="False" />

 

Yet still active

 

Can someone let me know how to disable the stupid mechanic that breaks my gun & insists I re read the same book again ? thnks

 

I can't answer all of that for you, but oi can answer the book part. The game is set so you have to use the gun workbench to work with your guns. Gun patterns (iirc) shouldn't be dropping (at least my group has found zero gun patterns), so you probably spawned it into the game.

 

Spawning the book and learning it will let you know it for like 3 minutes before you un-learn it. They want us to use the gun bench.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Thanks for validating this. I will commit the change into the next patch.

 

I'll backout the gauge reduction. Apparently I'm the only one that has too many of them.

 

yay i'll take some of them gauges! lolol

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hey, I'd try and test this in an instant, but what's keeping me is that I recently started over and haven't yet acquired an advanced crossbow for testing purposes. Also, I'm a noob at programming to the extent that I don't even know what file you mean. I hope someone else can do this.

 

 

 

What? They are great! They are elegant and go well as a hand railing and balconies for a mediterranean style white house with archway entries. They are special in the way they rotate too and make some designs possible, no other block type can do.

 

I will NOT use them for my bloodmoon tower platform, however. I tried them out and the way all the fine bars' edges appear with their shadows when moving. It's busy. They can't be painted either, so they are very dark if you have no light, making it hard to see if they are still there. This is no problem though, I'm perfectly fine with the iron version. They are a lot cheaper and the additional hitpoints of the steel bars are just not necessary. Iron bars as a platform don't die because they are hit, they die because the supporting blocks get hit.

 

Of course if you use them in a way to loot through them, in arm's reach of the zombies or maybe as a "wall", then all their benefits will make them the better choice. It's just that I personally don't build like that.

 

 

 

Oh wow, thank you very much!

1. Awesome! Thank you thank you thank you!

2. Thanks for investing the time into this

3. Oh... oh... time to stock up on splints!

4. Wasn't meat always the same type no matter what animal you harvested? Is chevon the only special type of meat added and are there recipes for that?

5. This is great news and a very welcome balancing change. Rubber has been difficult to get in quantities required for the x rad gear even before the addition of the beekeeper outfit. I can see people more likely to invest here

6. Why, what was the issue? People spamming small generators or people getting enough for the moonshine too easily? Look, the generator quest is an obstacle in the quest chain that leads up to building a beacon and farmer npc. People not wanting to build those things more than once will wait till they got the quest for that, leading to less games where survivors are actively used. If the early moonshine was the issue, how about leaving gauge drops the same and just increase the gauges required for the moonshine to 4?

7. So 2x0 is still 0 right? Hahaha, just kidding. The year is young, maybe someone will get a gland in 2018, we'll see. The hunt is on!

 

Adult Goats that your breed yourself, were giving Rotten meat, instead of raw meat.