QUESTION: Do traps give you the kill XP for zombies?

[Viktoriusiii]

Harvesting and never killing a zombie is a viable career, too.

It's one that some people consider fun, too, and they don't care that you disagree. =)

 

This is a tricky beast to balance as you saw in the above posts going on about a balance that turns out to be a complete fantasy.

Of course harvesting sucks for XP if you have crappy tools and skills, if all your character is good at is killing zombies. For other players it's the other way around and they consider zombie killing XP broken and just not worth it.

This is pure comedy.

 

Im not saying that it ISNT a viable carreer. I've been a trader since even before the coins were introduced, because i liked trading with other players and still do. Im not here to desincentivise building and mining. BUT I am here asking two questions:

1. I've killed 50 zombies and still only got ~5 levels. (the first 5). This is VERY unrewarding. Because you have to find zombies and you have to kill them without dying. Not to mention that if you die, you receive a penalty.

So why would i ever want to kill zombies, when I level faster punching wood which is everywhere, gives me ressources for a base lets me level quicker AND is absolutly safe.

2. I crafted the club, I found a zombie, I found a way to kill it with the club. -get xp and loot

I crafted the turret, placed the turret and everything electric needed for it (wire, tools, generator, maybe even sensor and relay), found a way to get the zombie close to the turret to kill it, wasted 2-10 bullets on the zombie and some gas for the generator -get loot

 

How is that in any way shape or form rewarding? I mean if there were zombies who are actually dangerous enough to not die by spikepit/spiketunnel then sure... this would help... but there isnt. 2 Feral zombies completly stopped by 5 rows of spikes and a wooden club/bow.

Mind you on the hardest difficulty.

 

Why would i ever want to waste so many materials on a turret/bullets/electrics/gasoline, when i can simply farm up some wood and stop everything in their tracks. Sure if you play PVE or with friends and you just want to build cool looking bases... sure. But realistically, turrets are useless... as well as all the other electric traps.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

It's only unfun because you are trying to min/max. Don't. Or do but find a better way to min/max.

 

I feel dirty when I see inefficiency. I mean it... kinda like a disorder. This isnt to say that TFPs need to make a game tailored to me. BUT I want to reason with them. And "min/maxing" is something I like to do, which is more or less discouraged.

[Royal Deluxe]

punching wood which is everywhere, gives me ressources for a base lets me level quicker AND is absolutly safe.[/i]

MUHAHAHAHAHA

 

Serious, mosts of my deaths was at choping trees and shoveling Clay.

[Viktoriusiii]

MUHAHAHAHAHA

 

Serious, mosts of my deaths was at choping trees and shoveling Clay.

 

Well... you need to shout "TIMBERRRR!!!" in order for correct tree chopping. Then the game will acknowledge your wisdom in treechopping and will avoid killing you for 2 minutes. This is hardcoded into the game and I never died ingame from chopping wood.

[Gazz]

I feel dirty when I see inefficiency. I mean it... kinda like a disorder. This isnt to say that TFPs need to make a game tailored to me. BUT I want to reason with them. And "min/maxing" is something I like to do, which is more or less discouraged.

Oh, actually I'm a minmaxer myself. In order to keep the game playable for ahh... normal people as well as myself I must fix the obvious exploits that would have me sitting in a corner and following the one optimal path to victory.

 

 

Well... you need to shout "TIMBERRRR!!!" in order for correct tree chopping. Then the game will acknowledge your wisdom in treechopping and will avoid killing you for 2 minutes. This is hardcoded into the game and I never died ingame from chopping wood.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to figure out this function of the ingame voice chat.

[Viktoriusiii]

Oh, actually I'm a minmaxer myself. In order to keep the game playable for ahh... normal people as well as myself I must fix the obvious exploits that would have me sitting in a corner and following the one optimal path to victory.

Then fix it so that zombies are actually a threat if you have a spikepit. Yea always the spikepit... but I have an issue with it cause its basically the only way to minmax, but I feel even dirtier to do it this way (let them land with 1hp and just finish them).

 

Look... I'm not advocating for full XP for spike kills. Maybe leave the no XP for those... "one time traps"

But at least for arrowdispensers and turrets, which activly use ressources... give us a part of the XP. Its not like you can sit there indefinatly and just "farm" xp... but currently, the only thing turrets do is waste ressources for no gain whatsoever.

There are 3 "levels" of traps:

1: expensive in every way: turrets and dispensers: need a very expensive setup to run AND use ressources to kill zombies.

2. expensivein either setup OR maintainance (bladetrap gets destroyed and needs electricity, electric fence, even barbed wire needs repairs fairly often)

3. inexpensive: spikes/pitfalls (combinable) super cheap in setup and maintainance

 

So lets say nr 1 gives 1/5th xp

nr 2 gives 1/10th xp

nr 3 gives 1/100th xp

 

this way ressources arent completly wasted, but cant be "abused" for XP farming.

and as you yourself have stated, there are other ways to "farm" xp with less effort and danger.

So why do they not give ANY XP AT ALL?

 

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to figure out this function of the ingame voice chat.

 

Hehe. I've gone through your code and have seen your code that was already in it in A1 for microtransactions. Are you enable those on full launch or already in beta?

[Kosmic Kerman]

I feel dirty when I see inefficiency. I mean it... kinda like a disorder. This isnt to say that TFPs need to make a game tailored to me. BUT I want to reason with them. And "min/maxing" is something I like to do, which is more or less discouraged.

 

I get it. Part of min/maxing though is tolerating "unfun mechanics" because the pay off for the min/maxer is worth it. The other part of min/maxing is discovering the most efficient route for gain within the game's rules.

 

So, here, if min/maxing a particular mechanic isn't fun, stop doing it. Or find a better way to min/max.

[Viktoriusiii]

So, here, if min/maxing a particular mechanic isn't fun, stop doing it. Or find a better way to min/max.

 

Its not about min/maxing with traps... since you dont get ANY xp they are worthless. 100%

Min/Maxing would be saying "turrets give less xp then killing them barehands so i will only kill them barehands"

 

Its about the fact that they are supposed to be a useful defensetool, but they dont offer anything new... not only that, they even use WAY WAY more ressources then early game traps.

This makes them not only unrewarding, but also unefficient

[Kosmic Kerman]

Its not about min/maxing with traps... since you dont get ANY xp they are worthless. 100%

Min/Maxing would be saying "turrets give less xp then killing them barehands so i will only kill them barehands"

 

Its about the fact that they are supposed to be a useful defensetool, but they dont offer anything new... not only that, they even use WAY WAY more ressources then early game traps.

This makes them not only unrewarding, but also unefficient

 

Except that you have to mine/scavenge the resources to build the traps and repair them. You get XP for both activities which is Gazz's whole point. You get XP for the activities required to build and maintain the traps but you don't get xp for watching them kill zombies. The fact that they cost more resources to build and maintain does not strengthen your argument since that means more XP.

[eidobunny]

There are enough problems with ownership of blocks in multiplayer, I can't imagine the rabbit hole of bugs waiting to be uncovered if every trap had to maintain an owner and persist through logging out and restarts, etc. Like do the traps generate XP while a player is offline? While the player is in another chunk? Do you remember the player name permanently? What if another player steps on a landmine you placed, would it say you eliminated them? What about if the player changed their character name since the time of placement? Do traps generate player kills while the trap owner is logged off? The list goes on.

[HungryZombie]

Well... I wont interfere with the development...

but I feel if you get THAT MUCH xp from crafting and mining, this game isnt about the hordes anymore.

Its more... a small TD game... where farming gives you more then killing.

 

If "the bix xp" isnt in killing zombies anymore... why even kill them in the first place? I mean I have killed hundrets of thousands of zombies (at least 150k) ACTIVLY because i enjoy killing zombies. But when compared to how many zombies have died in spikepits or only spikefields (10 rows of spikes) that number seems small in comparison. And I actually go for the kills on hordenight... I feel like the ratio with "normal" ppl is like 1 active zombie killed to... 10 zombies killed by traps.

Saying that all those zombies gave you 0 xp "because you already crafted the traps and got the materials" feels unrewarding.

 

PLEASE. Harvesting should give u XP... but not as much, that you dont even have to kill any zombies anymore to level.

I'm playing a zombiegame, not a "farm ressources and wait until the hordenight is over and have all fallen to your spikepit" game.

 

I want to kill zombies. But I want it to be rewarding, seeing my turrets kill hundret zombies because I have spent time farming the ressources...

 

But as it is... I will not build any defenses except for a cheap spikepit which defends me 100% anyways. Since every other trap costs too much to be worth it.

 

I'm getting the same feeling, I used to love kiliing zombies and would built all kinds of differnt bases to attract zombies and fight them in. Now.. not so much. I probably will log out on horde nights as well on the MP servers I play on. Low XP, Low Loot, resources too tight. This not the game I wanna play another 2000hrs on.

[Gamida]

There are enough problems with ownership of blocks in multiplayer, I can't imagine the rabbit hole of bugs waiting to be uncovered if every trap had to maintain an owner and persist through logging out and restarts, etc. Like do the traps generate XP while a player is offline? While the player is in another chunk? Do you remember the player name permanently? What if another player steps on a landmine you placed, would it say you eliminated them? What about if the player changed their character name since the time of placement? Do traps generate player kills while the trap owner is logged off? The list goes on.

 

I also mentioned in another similar thread about MP. If you are playing with a group of friends, who wants to use their own resources to repair your traps, restock ammo in your traps and refuel generator that run your traps if you get all the xp from it. (Your doesn't refer to you eidobunny lol it's just a generalization). It would probably work ok if you are building a base yourself or if you play in SP but in MP it doesn't seem to work so well.

[eidobunny]

I also mentioned in another similar thread about MP. If you are playing with a group of friends, who wants to use their own resources to repair your traps, restock ammo in your traps and refuel generator that run your traps if you get all the xp from it. (Your doesn't refer to you eidobunny lol it's just a generalization). It would probably work ok if you are building a base yourself or if you play in SP but in MP it doesn't seem to work so well.

 

lol "I wanna build the traps!" "No way you're gonna get all the XP dude" "okay okay you build the outer row and I'll build the inner row" "no way dude the zombies are going to live through the outer row, destroy it, and die on the inner row, you'll get all the xp and I'll be stuck doing all the repairs"

[Viktoriusiii]

Except that you have to mine/scavenge the resources to build the traps and repair them. You get XP for both activities which is Gazz's whole point. You get XP for the activities required to build and maintain the traps but you don't get xp for watching them kill zombies. The fact that they cost more resources to build and maintain does not strengthen your argument since that means more XP.

 

This cant be the only argument. Getting the ressources for this is so easy. Like lets say i build in a mountain and only need 1 turret to fire on all zombies.

I dont have the list of what you need... but basically:

generator and wiretool as well as the weapon on top of the turret, you can find. Gasoline you can find so the only real issue is iron (which is more then abundant and is more or less a biproduct when the time for electricity rolls around) and gunpowder for the ammo and some parts, which give so little xp that it can be ignored (and you are most likely going to buy them lategame instead of going around gathering them)

so for the turret itselfis near no "xp gain" so the only thing would be gunpowder for bullets... which you could use for your own AK 47 to kill the zombies yourself without a problem AND you get the xp for it... and you still have to get the gunpowder.

im sorry. but building turrets is a complete waste. I'd rather just grab the smg or shotgun myself and get the xp that way. And when hordenight is coming I either log out (because i dont get anything but trouble anyways) or on SP i simply build a small spikepit and watch them die that way.

EXCITING GAMEPLAY!

 

 

Look if you are still reading:

I'm not saying I dont understand your core point. You feel like standing next to the turret doing nothing is "cheap-xp"

But lets compare this to other methods:

a: get an earlygame steelpick (day 2 isnt unrealistic) or find a chainsaw/auger. Now as you see with all the people around the forum telling stories of leveling 30 levels in 1 week or faster.

 

b: use all your ressources AND levelpoints for electricity, traps and all that is required for a turret to run

craft all the necessary tools and stations to power it.

craft the ammo and refill if necessary

Even if you would get FULL xp for turretkills, you would most likely need more then a week for the same amount of xp.

 

One guy chopping a bit of wood, the other focusing his whole perktree on electricity AND to renew ammo and gasoline.

One gets enough XP to get steel perk in around 7 days (yea lvl 40... but still) and the other one gets some crappy loot, because he invested all his points in defenses.

 

This is neither rewarding, NOR fair.

Sometimes you just want to see your effort work for itself...

Why do you think cookieclicker (or the modern version "adventure capitalist") are so addicting? At first you have to click for your cookies... but then slowly over time you see how the game can do it for you and you feel rewarded for getting there.

This is basically what im talking about. Turrets are SO lategame, if you dont focus on getting them, and are so absolutly useless, that I feel like i will never use any electricity... maybe super lategame for some lights or something... but other then that... why waste ressources for something that gives me nothing but costs a lot?

[Viktoriusiii]

lol "I wanna build the traps!" "No way you're gonna get all the XP dude" "okay okay you build the outer row and I'll build the inner row" "no way dude the zombies are going to live through the outer row, destroy it, and die on the inner row, you'll get all the xp and I'll be stuck doing all the repairs"

 

look. if you have this ♥♥♥♥ty friends i would reconsider the friendship

but even with randoms... you already have one guy level looting and one guy level farming and one guy crafting... and no one wants to be the crafter... cause oyu cant do much... but you manage somehow. maybe you always place one each on every side... or one doesnt care that much about the "free xp"

 

What? Do you fight over every good weapon, because kills are faster with it?

About who gets the steelpick day 2 because the trader only has 1?

Cman thats hardly an argument. And if nothing else you could give the xp to all friends of the original placer adjacent to the turret...

There are so many ways to manage this and it feeling rewarding.

[eidobunny]

look. if you have this ♥♥♥♥ty friends i would reconsider the friendship

but even with randoms... you already have one guy level looting and one guy level farming and one guy crafting... and no one wants to be the crafter... cause oyu cant do much... but you manage somehow. maybe you always place one each on every side... or one doesnt care that much about the "free xp"

 

What? Do you fight over every good weapon, because kills are faster with it?

About who gets the steelpick day 2 because the trader only has 1?

Cman thats hardly an argument. And if nothing else you could give the xp to all friends of the original placer adjacent to the turret...

There are so many ways to manage this and it feeling rewarding.

 

It wasn't an argument it was friendly banter with Gamida.

 

My argument is in my first post.

 

Also who gives a crap about XP, you naturally hit level 200 just by playing the game and it's fine the way it is.

[Viktoriusiii]

It wasnt directed specifically to you, even though i quoted you.

But this cropped up before and I think its silly to say "lets not implement XP for something you worked hard, because others want XP too"

 

and while ownership problems might be a problem... (I personally never had any) I'd rather have a bugged turret that gives my mate the XP because he last refilled itand wait for a fix, rather then no XP at all.

 

 

I give a crap about XP. Its some form of "reward"; "payment" if you will, for your hard work crafting and maintaining turrets.

If you don't want to be rewarded for things that you do, implement the "get 1000xp per hour played"... because who gives a crap you get the xp anyways right?

[suicidalhamster]

Issues with trap exp:

- there is no risk letting traps kill zeds so there should be no reward. (As opposed to killing them with a club/sledge/etc)

- expoit potential is huge 1. Put out 10 traps, 2. Hide at bedrock for 8 weeks, 3. Collect exp for doing nothing, 4. profit

- mp issues regarding coop play ie:repairs, placement, ownership, etc.

 

I consider traps a convenience to be used A- when i am not home or B- as an emergency failsafe. I dont find it balanced gameplay for them to do all the heavy lifting and i will reap the exp, even if its only partial. I also dont think of myself as an einstein for cheesing out the zed AI to path into my traps. I shouldnt get exp because i "placed" them in the zeds' path.

 

If i want to get exp killing zeds, i grab a beer, spiked club and my balls and head outside my base on hoard night. Some here are saying they dont want the game easier but thats exactly what trap exp does. IMHO, if you dont want to lose exp cause of traps then dont use them (as your primary defense) Simple as that.

[Viktoriusiii]

Issues with trap exp:

- there is no risk letting traps kill zeds so there should be no reward. (As opposed to killing them with a club/sledge/etc)

- expoit potential is huge 1. Put out 10 traps, 2. Hide at bedrock for 8 weeks, 3. Collect exp for doing nothing, 4. profit

- mp issues regarding coop play ie:repairs, placement, ownership, etc.

 

I consider traps a convenience to be used A- when i am not home or B- as an emergency failsafe. I dont find it balanced gameplay for them to do all the heavy lifting and i will reap the exp, even if its only partial. I also dont think of myself as an einstein for cheesing out the zed AI to path into my traps. I shouldnt get exp because i "placed" them in the zeds' path.

 

If i want to get exp killing zeds, i grab a beer, spiked club and my balls and head outside my base on hoard night. Some here are saying they dont want the game easier but thats exactly what trap exp does. IMHO, if you dont want to lose exp cause of traps then dont use them (as your primary defense) Simple as that.

 

If this were A15 where zombies give a lot of xp and you dont need XP to progress, then I'd be with you...

BUT

a) you need XP for every friggin thing now. Want to mine better? skillpoints. Kill better? skillpoints. loot better and dont want to loot every dirtbag you find to level? skillpoints. steel? workbench? concrete? traps? skillpoints,skillpoints,skillpoints. So every wasted xp is XP you will miss when you need that lvl 3 scienceperk (or whatever)

b) you get so much xp from farming (which is even safer then letting zombies near ur base). Killing Z's isnt the main objective when hunting for xp anymore.

And as I said, if its to "exploity" just give xp for turrets and dartboxes. They require a lot to build AND the ammo. So you cant sit idly by while they do the work for you.

[Miller3870]

Dont you get xp from repairing the traps after the hordes as well? Repairing the stuff everyday Im pretty sure gives you some extra from the zeds attacking without the work of building them from scratch, and with a claw hammer isnt too bad. I know its not the same as getting passive xp from the traps themselves, but its something.

[Gypsy Mind Trik]

Xp for trap kills , as I'm sure you have thought of , equals easy AFK XP Farm. That my friend is why it will never happen.

[Viktoriusiii]

Xp for trap kills , as I'm sure you have thought of , equals easy AFK XP Farm. That my friend is why it will never happen.

 

and like with all the others i discredit your opinion by saying, that everything that is craftedis "afk xp farming" be it 300 arrows, be it 5000 gasoline in a chemstation or be it simply tools, which can be scrapped for 75%.

With turrets, you would need to restock the ammo, which cost A LOT of ressources. 1.3+ shutgunshells per zombie (normal not feral,fat or irradiated) and ~2 9mm per zombie (normal) will, on a hordenight with 60+ zombies really do need a lot of brass metal and gunpowderfarming.

 

And if you look at current player methods, they are more or less afk at hordenight anyways, just waiting for them to die in the spikepit and looting them, getting free afk loot.

 

So "is never going to happen" when its already in the game, might not be the best phrasing.

[Redoutz]

I should be able to sit in my Lazyboy drinking beer 60 m down totally safe and rake in 1000s of XP while my traps do all the work dammit!!!

Preferably while watching my 60" flat screen and eating pork rinds. Lots of reward and calories for no risk and effort. It's the American way!

[Viktoriusiii]

I should be able to sit in my Lazyboy drinking beer 60 m down totally safe and rake in 1000s of XP while my traps do all the work dammit!!!

Preferably while watching my 60" flat screen and eating pork rinds. Lots of reward and calories for no risk and effort. It's the American way!

 

I should be able to sit in my Lazyboy drinking beer 60 m down totally safe and rake in 1000s of XP while workbench does all the work dammit!!!

Preferably while watching my 60" flat screen and eating pork rinds. Lots of reward and calories for no risk and effort. It's the American way!

 

This was never an issue. Especially how few XP zombies give already. If you divide the xp even further as "indirect xp" as i stated many times already, "thousands of XP" is only realistic if you are on da 98, never died once, have 10 furnaces 1000 lights and shoot in the air wildly.

And even then your turrets will run out of ammo before the hordenight is over.

 

 

 

 

WHY THE FK does everyone think its "free xp"? Its not. You have to craft so much ♥♥♥♥. (especially when talking about turrets) you have to keep it in tact, you have to craft/farm ammo.

 

WTF do you guys think im advocating for here?

I wasn't even saying give full XP (even then the amount of XP compared to going out there and farming wood/iron is absolutly laughable)

 

I just want SOME sort of reward for spending 1000 skillpoints, 5000iron and 100 parts of every sort, while i simply could hide in some unbreakable spikepitbunker.

Turrets right now are absolutly pointless. 100%. They waste ressources and need x000 skillpoints while spikes are craftable at lvl 1 and probably give you more XP while farming the wood.

[Gamida]

Viktoriusiii, I want to let you know that anything I have or will say on the subject is not an attack on you or you point of view on this subject. I can't speak for anyone else, but from what I can see no one else is either. I just wanted to get that out of the way before continuing so you don't feel everyone is coming down on you for your opinion.

 

That being said, I don't think it will get put in as it sort of works the same as the spikes. I know spikes are way less resource hogs but it is to me the same deal. You make the spikes and the zombies die on them (if you leave them alone) and you get no xp for it.

I really wouldn't care if someone who built the traps got the xp if it kills them, but if it weakens them and I shoot them, then I get the xp. Also, the person who built them would most likely be the one to have to maintain them. I would probably still help repair them because I get itchy if something is out of whack and I notice it right in front of me. (Although I suck at the electricity part lol...yes I screwed up wiring on blades I was trying to fix )

[Viktoriusiii]

Viktoriusiii, I want to let you know that anything I have or will say on the subject is not an attack on you or you point of view on this subject. I can't speak for anyone else, but from what I can see no one else is either. I just wanted to get that out of the way before continuing so you don't feel everyone is coming down on you for your opinion.

Dont worry. I really didnt feel attacked by anyone. More annoyed, that the same invalid (or at least only partially valid) reason was named, namely xp for doing "nothing" which is already in the game and way harder with turrets. And it was commented 4-5 times

 

That being said, I don't think it will get put in as it sort of works the same as the spikes. I know spikes are way less resource hogs but it is to me the same deal. You make the spikes and the zombies die on them (if you leave them alone) and you get no xp for it.

I really wouldn't care if someone who built the traps got the xp if it kills them, but if it weakens them and I shoot them, then I get the xp. Also, the person who built them would most likely be the one to have to maintain them. I would probably still help repair them because I get itchy if something is out of whack and I notice it right in front of me. (Although I suck at the electricity part lol...yes I screwed up wiring on blades I was trying to fix )

 

With spikes and maybe even electric wire and balde trap i can KINDA see what you mean... if you have a good setup, you dont need to do much except for refueling... and if you have a solarbank then not evne that...

BUT with turrets its not that easy. Just think, if you would kill every single zombie you see no matter if hordenight or not with 2 9mm shots. How quickly would you run out of ammo? This is what turrets are. Ammo wasting spikepits. They kill zombies a bit quicker and more reliable then spikes, but absolutly burn ressources with no other reward other then looking cool.

 

I think yes the last hit should always count. Otherwise you need sahred xp and then it gets needlessly complicated.