Viktoriusiii Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Hey. The Question is in the title... Is there anything known about this? If not could someone contact madmole or someone? Because this will influence how i build my base. Because since your levels mostly come from killing zombies now, and you need levels more then ever to get better in any way (electricity, steel, tools/weapon crafting and so on) if zombies are killed by my barbed wire or spikes I GUESS that it counts as environmental kill as it did in the earlier alphas... (even though id like that to change, not only for the XP but also for the scoreboard on PvP servers ) BUT does this also apply to electric traps like turrets, blades and electric wires? Because then turrets are more or less a last resort tool and should not be used as an outer defense mechanism. Because not only does it waste a lot of ressources (compared to spikepits and other traps or simply meleeing them) they also dont give you any XP even though a turret is definatly not "environment" it was crafted, powered, set up and aimed up by you, and you should get the XP for those kills (while you are online only of course) MY SUGGESTION: Maybe to balance it, you only get 1/10th of the xp, but you should still get XP for killed zombies. Make it: 1/5th to 1/10th of XP for all ACTIVE traps (meaning everything that uses ammo and power, 1/5th for ammo like turrets and dart traps; 1/10th for electric wire, spinning blade) and 1/100th for all previously "environmental" kills by traps placed by you. Meaning spikes would need a small nerf dmg wise (they are sooo strong right now and would be even stronger with xp) I always thought to kill zombies with traps were kinda wasted, since yea loot is nice, but it doesnt show on the scoreboard (something i like to brag about on PvP servers ) and more importantly, it doesnt give you any XP... before, that wasnt too big of a deal, since you could simply improve by yourself if you needed to... but now, i think of not builing traps at all for hordenight and simply going out there simply shooting them or killing them with the sledgehammer all night for the xp... TL;DR; Traps should give a small amount of XP otherwise they are a waste of ressources and zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 No, they don't. As has been mentioned in other threads (this topic seems to be coming up a fair bit lately), you get the XP for obtaining the materials it took to make them, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 No, they don't. As has been mentioned in other threads (this topic seems to be coming up a fair bit lately), you get the XP for obtaining the materials it took to make them, but that's it. but WHY... it seems like such a waste. and they are already coded to be "yours", which is why you can interact with them. I mean I wont place any traps in my next playthrough and will simply log off on day 7 and hunt zombies on daytime. I wont waste ressources and get more xp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyknob Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 If you give your traps a human name, then it'd make sense they get the xp. Afterall. You're just watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 yup, they should. The argument of us getting xp for building it... wtf. We also get xp for fighting the zombies around the weapons we loot, we get xp for crafting the ammo of the weapons we shoot, we get xp for building the columns from behind we shoot.... Sure, we get a few xp for crafting, building, harvesting. But the big xp is from killing zombies, and turrets not giving credit is a waste. No, it doesnt make it too hard. Lately each time somebody talks about a balance change, all asume that you want the game easier. It's about fun. Getting xp is fun. Building something that makes defense efficient is fun. Wasting xp is not fun. Fighting your own turrets for last hits is not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 As if you would not get enough XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 As if you would not get enough XP Again, I dont want the game easier. If the allaround xp is too much, balance it. But seeing the horde die to turrets makes me sad for all the xp wasted. It makes me try to last hits zombies, and that doesnt make sense nor is it fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 yup, they should. The argument of us getting xp for building it... wtf. We also get xp for fighting the zombies around the weapons we loot, we get xp for crafting the ammo of the weapons we shoot, we get xp for building the columns from behind we shoot.... Sure, we get a few xp for crafting, building, harvesting. But the big xp is from killing zombies, and turrets not giving credit is a waste. No, it doesnt make it too hard. Lately each time somebody talks about a balance change, all asume that you want the game easier. It's about fun. Getting xp is fun. Building something that makes defense efficient is fun. Wasting xp is not fun. Fighting your own turrets for last hits is not fun. The Pimps would like you to get XP from your own actions. If you kill the zombie, you get the XP, if the turret does it, you don't. There's arguments to be made either way I guess, but personally I'm fine with their stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 If you give your traps a human name, then it'd make sense they get the xp. Afterall. You're just watching. But I managed to place the traps in a way, that the zombies die/walk into them. I crafted and looted all the materials, and I need to keep the traps intact. Then you shouldnt get XP for killing with a weapon... If you give your weapons a human name, then it'd make sense they get the xp. YOU have killed the zombies. If by swinging your weapon or by setting up a system that swings the weapon for you... so to speak. yup, they should. The argument of us getting xp for building it... wtf. We also get xp for fighting the zombies around the weapons we loot, we get xp for crafting the ammo of the weapons we shoot, we get xp for building the columns from behind we shoot.... Sure, we get a few xp for crafting, building, harvesting. But the big xp is from killing zombies, and turrets not giving credit is a waste. No, it doesnt make it too hard. Lately each time somebody talks about a balance change, all asume that you want the game easier. It's about fun. Getting xp is fun. Building something that makes defense efficient is fun. Wasting xp is not fun. Fighting your own turrets for last hits is not fun. +1 Im not advocating for full XP for it not to be abused. But getting nothing for wasting ressources is just not fun. I dont want the game to be easier. I always play on hardest difficulty and from day 49 onwards i play with "feral" wandering hordes... if i wanted the game easier, I'd simply reduce difficulty. But I have no incentive to place any traps, when i can simply wait the horde out under ground or on top of a lake. The loot isnt really worth spending... 3 bullets per zombie, +ressources for the turret and wiring+ pressureplate+gas for the generator, when i can simply let them die by crafting 10 spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Sure, we get a few xp for crafting, building, harvesting. But the big xp is from killing zombies False. Lately I was lvel 30ish and cutting wood. I had a steel axe and intentionally wasn't using any of the broken "harvest XP" mechanics. Just cutting trees I made 1 level every 3:20 minutes. An iron axe would have been maybe half that but that's still a level every 6 minutes while I was in no danger whatsoever and got tons of useful recources. Oh, and I didn't even have the Miner perk maxed. If anything, harvesting XP is too high so the trap builders are at an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 No No No sir, stay away from my Harvesting XP Want lvl 100 in 4 Days after Chainsaw^^ (As i wrote sometimes, after lvl 40-60 you can half the XP for mining) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 False. Lately I was lvel 30ish and cutting wood. I had a steel axe and intentionally wasn't using any of the broken "harvest XP" mechanics. Just cutting trees I made 1 level every 3:20 minutes. An iron axe would have been maybe half that but that's still a level every 6 minutes while I was in no danger whatsoever and got tons of useful recources. Oh, and I didn't even have the Miner perk maxed. If anything, harvesting XP is too high so the trap builders are at an advantage. Well... I wont interfere with the development... but I feel if you get THAT MUCH xp from crafting and mining, this game isnt about the hordes anymore. Its more... a small TD game... where farming gives you more then killing. If "the bix xp" isnt in killing zombies anymore... why even kill them in the first place? I mean I have killed hundrets of thousands of zombies (at least 150k) ACTIVLY because i enjoy killing zombies. But when compared to how many zombies have died in spikepits or only spikefields (10 rows of spikes) that number seems small in comparison. And I actually go for the kills on hordenight... I feel like the ratio with "normal" ppl is like 1 active zombie killed to... 10 zombies killed by traps. Saying that all those zombies gave you 0 xp "because you already crafted the traps and got the materials" feels unrewarding. PLEASE. Harvesting should give u XP... but not as much, that you dont even have to kill any zombies anymore to level. I'm playing a zombiegame, not a "farm ressources and wait until the hordenight is over and have all fallen to your spikepit" game. I want to kill zombies. But I want it to be rewarding, seeing my turrets kill hundret zombies because I have spent time farming the ressources... But as it is... I will not build any defenses except for a cheap spikepit which defends me 100% anyways. Since every other trap costs too much to be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 PLEASE. Harvesting should give u XP... but not as much, that you dont even have to kill any zombies anymore to level. There are Players dont want to Hunt Zombies or loot much, they want only to build with some risk. Who are you to deny them that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 If "the bix xp" isnt in killing zombies anymore Well, I definitely agree with you here - killin' Zeek ought to be the best XP around, and currently it isn't - that said, we're still in EXPERIMENTAL of an ALPHA game, so there's plenty of time for that to be fine tuned. That said, I personally think the XP should be mine only so long as the kill was, spikes for example, never gave you XP and they've been in for ages now, so I'm surprised people were surprised that turrets weren't any different. - - - Updated - - - There are Players dont want to Hunt Zombies or loot much, they want only to build with some risk. Who are you to deny them that. I wouldn't want to deny them that, but it shouldn't be faster, or even comparable, to killing Zeek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Its Hard enough for the "Architects" Go underground at seconds day with 200 Yuccas, 500 Snow, 500 Fibers and 2000 Wood. (and all for a forge) Level to 60 without leaving the Bunker only by Building and Mining Leave Bunker with a lvl 200 Bow and 50 Arrows, meet a glowing cop. Have FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Its Hard enough for the "Architects" Go underground at seconds day with 200 Yuccas, 500 Snow, 500 Fibers and 2000 Wood. (and all for a forge) Level to 60 without leaving the Bunker only by Building and Mining Leave Bunker with a lvl 200 Bow and 50 Arrows, meet a glowing cop. Have FUN More the reason for reducing the gain from building/gathering. One of the players on my server, an absolute molerat, was the first to level 200 (helped considerably by a VERY early VERY high quality FULL auger find), and he's run into the same problem. He may be level 200, but his armor, weapons and survival perks sure aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZedBullfrog Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 It makes sense as is. I don't want XP for a zombie that dies on passive defenses. It sounds good for easy XP farming, but that's not how I like to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 PLEASE. Harvesting should give u XP... but not as much, that you dont even have to kill any zombies anymore to level. Harvesting and never killing a zombie is a viable career, too. It's one that some people consider fun, too, and they don't care that you disagree. =) This is a tricky beast to balance as you saw in the above posts going on about a balance that turns out to be a complete fantasy. Of course harvesting sucks for XP if you have crappy tools and skills, if all your character is good at is killing zombies. For other players it's the other way around and they consider zombie killing XP broken and just not worth it. This is pure comedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 This is a tricky beast to balance as you saw in the above posts going on about a balance that turns out to be a complete fantasy. This is why you get the BIG bucks, Gazz. I has faith. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nice Cup of Tea Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Harvesting and never killing a zombie is a viable career, too. It's one that some people consider fun, too, and they don't care that you disagree. =) This is a tricky beast to balance as you saw in the above posts going on about a balance that turns out to be a complete fantasy. Of course harvesting sucks for XP if you have crappy tools and skills, if all your character is good at is killing zombies. For other players it's the other way around and they consider zombie killing XP broken and just not worth it. This is pure comedy. It's easily solved. Just remove XP completely and give characters a level every ten minutes, regardless of what they do. That's balanced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 False. Lately I was lvel 30ish and cutting wood. I had a steel axe and intentionally wasn't using any of the broken "harvest XP" mechanics. Just cutting trees I made 1 level every 3:20 minutes. An iron axe would have been maybe half that but that's still a level every 6 minutes while I was in no danger whatsoever and got tons of useful recources. Oh, and I didn't even have the Miner perk maxed. If anything, harvesting XP is too high so the trap builders are at an advantage. I think you arent using common sense, just trying to justify taht argument, which I really think makes no sense. You are always doing something that gives you xp. If you are not crafting the trap you are crafting something else, or harvesting or killing zombies. You cant compare the xp of crafting the trap with the xp of killing the zombies the trap killed, because while you are not building the trap, you are doing something else that gives you the same xp. And then on horde night, you are also getting the xp of teh zombies. While with the trap, you made the effort to build a trap instead of some other activityelse, you got xp for the trap, but not of that other activity you did not do, and now you are shooting zombies along the trap and losing the xp of the ones the turret kills. So counting xp, you get less when you build traps. But it also generates unfun mechanics, like trying to lasthit instead of fighting efficiently. And to the ones seaying: you kill it, you get xp, you dont kill it, you dont get xp.... I killed it, using a trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 It's not that I didn't know exactly how much XP you'll get with tool X and skill Y harvesting block Z or killing zombies A and B. The tricky bit is that a lot depends on how much the random gods favour you. Like you see above. Someone finds a high quality Auger - he'll be rocking the XP and there is no stopping that. That is the plan. Some rebalancing went in recently and another bug got fixed (1 harvesting bug to go) so... getting there. Thankfully this is experimental where broken savegames only cause hysterical laughter. It's easily solved. Just remove XP completely and give characters a level every ten minutes, regardless of what they do. That's balanced! Actually, that's good but not perfect. There should be a QTE every 20 sec where you must click the "good" button to get XP. That would prevent AFK leveling. And you can buy XP potions in the online store that absolve you of this restriction for an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmic Kerman Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 So counting xp, you get less when you build traps. But it also generates unfun mechanics, like trying to lasthit instead of fighting efficiently. It's only unfun because you are trying to min/max. Don't. Or do but find a better way to min/max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 How about buying XP 1€ 1000 XP ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 How about buying XP 1€ 1000 XP ? Yah, sounds about right. This won't be a widespread and unbalanced increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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