ComSenMod (now for A18)

[Guppycur]

I've split too many logs with an axe in real life I guess, but if you insist on gating, duplicate the axe (call the new one a splitter, you can tint the icon for variation). Or, allow axes to spit wood, since, they can. Just watch out because I would build with those logs (like we could in the past). That's fixable too

[TARCH26]

Crater Creator you broke the temperature and clothing. Now everywhere is cold. Return the weather back and clothes. Which files are responsible for this? Replace the standard, because it is impossible to play.

[xyth]

Thanks for the praise and suggestion!

 

It's true that the game glosses over processing logs into lumber, which is nontrivial in reality. At your suggestion, I considered two ways it could be implemented: via a station, or through hand crafting.

 

For the station approach, you'd take logs to a table saw, comparable to the cement mixer. The problems with this would be:

A) For now, I'm not prepared for ComSenMod to add new art assets to the game

B) It creates more unanswered questions downstream. The major ones are, how do you get a saw station? And if you don't have one, how does the lack of usable wood affect your ability to survive and progress through the early game?

 

Alternatively, you could craft logs into lumber by hand. As it turns out, we know how this would affect gameplay, because the game was this way before Alpha 13. TFP concluded that the only thing that logs (and other intermediate ingredients like metal strips and blades of grass) added to the game was clutter and extra time processing. So a guideline emerged where if A -> B -> C, and B doesn't have uses other than turning into C, B is removed.

 

I can appreciate their reasoning, so I'm not yet convinced that going back to logs would improve gameplay. I think it's necessary to accept a level of abstraction - that some steps are extradiegetic, assumed to happen 'off stage' for the sake of skipping over what would be tedious to act out manually. I think common sense is maintained so long as that acceptance is achieved.

 

Ok, first..... +1 for teaching me a new word.

 

I agree with the a/b/c model. I never played before A13, but I don't see why you shouldn't build with logs. I think you could safely make it a non-upgradable block with a durability similar to reinforced wood blocks. Making it not upgradable would provide for early shelter, but a disposable one. Certainly more believable than making wood blocks without nails (yeah, you can join with pegs or T/G but doing that with a stone ax at the beginning is a stretch).

 

Anyway, great new changes. I never liked cooling clothing so once you balance this out it should be a great improvement.

Edited April 2, 2017 by xyth (see edit history)

[Kubikus]

I like common sense too, this is my solution: Trees drop logs (only when the tree is actually felled, throughout the cutting process, it occasionally drops branches). A log can be crafted into a crude workstation, that is basically just a base/support and denies crafting in your backpocket. The workstation can be equipped with a stone axe, that cuts crude woodplanks from the logs. These can then be crafted into crude wood frames, weaker and with a lower maxload (a crude wood frame has 50 hitpoints and can hold two more frames, while the regular frame has 100 hitpoints, holding another five). The crude wood frame can be upgraded once to an equally weak crude wood block (again with the crude wood planks). Also, the stone axe cuts less (crude) wood planks from a log than a saw. The saw, though, cuts the log into flawless wood planks, that can be used to craft regular frames.

 

The whole "crude"-branch (it's also it's own material "wood_crude" ) simulates the limitations that the early game stone axe has compared to proper iron tools in the later game.

[Crater Creator]

Crater Creator you broke the temperature and clothing. Now everywhere is cold. Return the weather back and clothes. Which files are responsible for this? Replace the standard, because it is impossible to play.

 

biomes.xml makes all biomes 25 degrees colder.

items.xml rebalances how warm all the clothes are.

weathersurvival.xml changes how things like wind and water affect your temperature.

 

If it's really unplayable, you can revert those files, although you'll lose other changes.

 

I tested the temperature and clothing changes most in the pine forest, but also in the maple forest, burnt forest, desert, and wasteland. All biomes were changed by the same amount. I tested all kinds of different clothing over multiple weeks, and it felt really good! So this feedback surprises me.

 

Can you tell me what biome you were in, and everything you were wearing? Also, were you wet at the time, and were any buffs active? This information is really important for me to be able to fix it.

[The Lorax]

biomes.xml makes all biomes 25 degrees colder.

items.xml rebalances how warm all the clothes are.

weathersurvival.xml changes how things like wind and water affect your temperature.

 

If it's really unplayable, you can revert those files, although you'll lose other changes.

 

I tested the temperature and clothing changes most in the pine forest, but also in the maple forest, burnt forest, desert, and wasteland. All biomes were changed by the same amount. I tested all kinds of different clothing over multiple weeks, and it felt really good! So this feedback surprises me.

 

Can you tell me what biome you were in, and everything you were wearing? Also, were you wet at the time, and were any buffs active? This information is really important for me to be able to fix it.

 

I'll boot up your changes now and give them a test also. Maybe its a specific biome he was in, or something.

 

Edit:

Test: Snow Biome with basic clothing 100% Wet. http://imgur.com/55iNCCu

 

Based on this limited example, seems fine, you just need to wear clothing. The only issue I can see is maybe there was a specific oversight issue with a biome or clothing unit.

 

Edit 2:

Theory: Drinking Tea and some other drinks have a cooling effect, this could be the reason behind being really cold. Since in vanilla, this buff would almost never be an issue, it could be confusing. Might be worth adjusting their values if you haven't already. I have not extensively tested this, i Just popped a redTea and started to suffer for that choice.

Edited April 3, 2017 by The Lorax (see edit history)

[Crater Creator]

Thanks for your testing. In your screenshot, you're in the coldest biome, you're as wet as possible, and you're wearing mostly plant fiber clothing with no coat, which I made 'pound for pound' the least insulating material. So you being very cold matches expectations.

 

One way it might be broken is if you're never able to warm up, because you dry slower when you're cold. I reduced this effect from vanilla, though, since it's a negative feedback loop.

 

I checked buffs.xml for buffs that affect your core temperature. None of them are changed from vanilla. These are the values:

 

yucca juice, red tea -10

coffee, stew +10

snowberry juice +15

fire +30

Edited April 3, 2017 by Crater Creator
typo (see edit history)

[Henshaw]

One way it might be broken is if you're never able to warm up, because you dry slower when you're cold. I reduced this effect from vanilla, though, since it's a negative feedback loop.

 

Hey. Been following this quietly, and wanted to comment on this one. This is how it works in real life too, and this is what makes snow biome so dangerous early on. If you make it easier, it will be way too easy for veterans, although it also depends on how well you have balanced the clothing... The "feedback loop" is there for a reason, and can be overcome very easily and quickly.

As it is in vanilla, there are many different factors that affect cold weather survival, and while survival is hard early on in snow biome, it's perfectly possible, was even when weather survival didn't have a grace period of one day. I know this for a fact as I played in an all snow world for a couple of (real life) months after weather was implemented for the thrill of the challenge.

 

I'm interested to see what you come up with balance-wise eventually.

[TARCH26]

biomes.xml makes all biomes 25 degrees colder.

items.xml rebalances how warm all the clothes are.

weathersurvival.xml changes how things like wind and water affect your temperature.

 

If it's really unplayable, you can revert those files, although you'll lose other changes.

 

I tested the temperature and clothing changes most in the pine forest, but also in the maple forest, burnt forest, desert, and wasteland. All biomes were changed by the same amount. I tested all kinds of different clothing over multiple weeks, and it felt really good! So this feedback surprises me.

 

Can you tell me what biome you were in, and everything you were wearing? Also, were you wet at the time, and were any buffs active? This information is really important for me to be able to fix it.

 

Одежда перестала охлаждать. В кленовом лесу идёт снег, при температуре +25 градусов цельсия. Если одеть одежду на героя, то ему становиться жарко, поэтому бегаю голый. Находясь в зимнем биоме, вышел из игры. Загрузил сохранение и сразу замёрз. Окружающая температура резко упала с +5 до -15. Был одет в тёплую одежду. Добежал до кленового леса, но окружающая температура половину дня поднималась. В ванили мог балансировать с помощью шорт, майки и шляпы. С собой носил пуховик и при охлаждении одевал его. Теперь это не работает. Переводчик ломает смысл, не знаю поймёшь ли?

 

Clothing stopped cooling. In the maple forest, it's snowing, at a temperature of 25 degrees Celsius. If you wear the clothes on the hero, then he becomes hot, so running around naked. Being in a winter biome, out of the game. Loaded a save and immediately frozen. The ambient temperature has plummeted from +5 to -15. He was dressed in warm clothes. Ran to maple forests, but the ambient temperature is half of the day was raised. In vanilla could balance with shorts, t-shirts and hats. A wore a jacket, and cooling to wear it. Now it's not working. The translator breaks the sense, do not know whether you will understand?

[Tin]

Re: weather

 

One thing I have done is give all the biomes a single temperature (the average of the vanilla min/max) since the weather.xml already provides a range effect by rain/shade/sun/wind/wet/dry and helps keep the biome and weather.xml from constantly fighting with each other for no reason (strangely enough It play a bit smoother as well).

 

I then gave all clothing that provided a cooling affect a "Zero" instead of a cooling factor (until TFP allow clothing to have both a cool and heating effect that is). This provided a more consistent clothing management scheme that was easier to control and intuitive for the game or at least I think so and from what has been relayed too me.

 

OFC I adjusted cooling/warming foods/drinks and items, so you at times would struggle living in the deep freeze of the snow biomes or the extra hot times of the desert but it plays nice.

 

edit: a nugget of info Just in case you don't already know. You cool down 25% faster wet as opposed to being dry, unlike what they have it set in the game as being 10times faster.

 

edit2: changing the <property name="EnclosureDetectionThreshold" value="0.15"/> to Value="0.09" will stop ppl from getting wet when standing near a window/door.

 

This is not to say I want you to change your mod, just parlaying info.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Tin (see edit history)

[Crater Creator]

Ok, first..... +1 for teaching me a new word.

 

I agree with the a/b/c model. I never played before A13, but I don't see why you shouldn't build with logs. I think you could safely make it a non-upgradable block with a durability similar to reinforced wood blocks. Making it not upgradable would provide for early shelter, but a disposable one. Certainly more believable than making wood blocks without nails (yeah, you can join with pegs or T/G but doing that with a stone ax at the beginning is a stretch).

 

Anyway, great new changes. I never liked cooling clothing so once you balance this out it should be a great improvement.

 

Hey, xyth. I can't send you a private message because your quota is full, so I hope you see this and don't mind me posting it publicly.

 

Thanks for asking about using ideas from ComSenMod in True Survival SDX. You have my permission to go ahead with that. It looks like you and Spider properly credit other modders and their mods, so I trust you to do things right.

[xyth]

Thanks, and sorry about the mailbox, it fills up way too fast to keep up with.

[TARCH26]

Crater Creator Появилась проблема, нет рецепта дробовика. Рецепт короткого дробовика есть. Соответственно не могу собрать дробовик. Частей много для него. Случайно удалили? В военных сейфах слишком мало патронов 2-5, вы говорили исправите. Торговец продаёт по 20 бетонной смеси, имеет смысл от 200 и больше.

 

There was a problem, there is no recipe of a shotgun. Recipe short of a shotgun is. Therefore can not collect the shotgun. Parts much for him. Accidentally deleted? In munitions box too many rounds 2-5, you said correct. Dealer sells 20 of the concrete mixture, it makes sense from 200 and more.

[Crater Creator]

I will use simple English to help us communicate.

 

Clothing stopped cooling the player. It snowed in the maple forest at 25 degrees Celsius. The character becomes hot if you wear clothes, so you have to run around naked.

 

In ComSenMod, a person wearing shorts is warmer than a person wearing nothing, and a person wearing long pants is warmer than a person wearing shorts. The player does not get colder when they wear clothes. It is supposed to be this way.

 

I did not change when it snows. I made every biome colder. For example, the base temperature in the maple forest is between -40° C and -23° C. In vanilla it is between -26° C to -9° F.

 

You can't be in the winter biome. I loaded a saved game there and immediately froze. The ambient temperature plummeted from +5° C to -15° C. I was dressed in warm clothes. I ran to the maple forest, but the ambient temperature climbed for half of the day [bad translation??]. In vanilla, I could balance this with shorts, t-shirts and hats. I wore a jacket, and used cooling clothes to wear it. Now it's not working. Do you understand the translation?

 

Two questions:

 

Can you please post a screenshot of the character screen, like The Lorax, so I can see exactly what you are wearing when you are freezing?

 

If you start a new game, instead of a saved game, is the problem the same?

[TARCH26]

Can you please post a screenshot of the character screen, like The Lorax, so I can see exactly what you are wearing when you are freezing?

If you start a new game, instead of a saved game, is the problem the same?

 

Начинать новую игру не хочу пока. Попробую повторить и сделаю скриншоты.

Start a new game not yet. I will try again and make screenshots.

[Crater Creator]

I found a problem: there is no shotgun recipe. There is only a short shotgun recipe. Accordingly, I can not assemble a shotgun. I have many parts for it. Was the recipe accidentally deleted?

 

ComSenMod has the same shotgun recipes that vanilla has. I checked this. I also checked in the game, and I can assemble both types of shotguns if the character knows the recipes. Are you sure you read the book to unlock the recipe?

 

There are too few cartridges in military safes: 2-5. You said you would correct that.

<lootgroup name="ammo" count="1,3">
<item name="steelArrow" count="6,12" prob="1.25"/>
<item name="9mmBullet" count="10,20" prob="1.25"/>
<item name="shotgunShell" count="5,10"/>
<item name="10mmBullet" count="10,20"/>
<item name="762mmBullet" count="10,20" prob="0.75"/>
<item name="44MagBullet" count="6,12" prob="0.25"/>
</lootgroup>
...
<lootgroup name="militaryammo">
<item name="10mmBullet" count="20,40"/>
<item name="762mmBullet" count="15,30"/>
<item name="shotgunSlug" count="3,7"/>
<item name="rocket" count="2,4"/>
</lootgroup>

 

I do not understand why this is happening. You should find the amounts shown above (unless you also find a complete weapon). I wonder, what loot settings do you use? 25%, 50%, 100%, etc.

 

The trader sells 20 units of concrete mix. 200 or more would make sense.

 

Thank you. I added trader quantities to my list of things to re-balance in the future.

[TARCH26]

ComSenMod has the same shotgun recipes that vanilla has. I checked this. I also checked in the game, and I can assemble both types of shotguns if the character knows the recipes. Are you sure you read the book to unlock the recipe?

 

35 days not found book not a shotgun. Therefore can not assemble it. You've found in the game this book?

 

I do not understand why this is happening. You should find the amounts shown above (unless you also find a complete weapon). I wonder, what loot settings do you use? 25%, 50%, 100%, etc.

 

Loot settings 50%. This is the reason? I thought that the percentage effect on frequency, not quantity.

 

I came to the winter biome. Temperature +15 degrees Celsius.

 

Out of the game. Downloaded the save. The temperature was -20 degrees Celsius.

[Crater Creator]

35 days not found book not a shotgun. Therefore can not assemble it. You've found in the game this book?

 

You probably just haven't found the book yet. Both shotgun books are in the "common books" group. So they can be found in these places.

[table=width: 600]

[tr]

[td]books

[/td]

[td]junkPersonal

[/td]

[td]junk

[/td]

[td]backpacks

[/td]

[td]cardboard boxes

[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]dressers

[/td]

[td]safes

[/td]

[td]mailbox

[/td]

[td]suitcase

[/td]

[td]lockers

[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]file cabinet

[/td]

[td]purse

[/td]

[td]bookcase

[/td]

[td]Hazmat zombie[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

Loot settings 50%. This is the reason? I thought that the percentage effect on frequency, not quantity.

I play with 50% loot, too. So there must be another reason. I notice your HUD is not the vanilla HUD. What other mods are you using?

 

I went to the winter biome. The temperature was +15 degrees Celsius.

 

Then I went out of the game and installed ComSenMod. The temperature was -20 degrees Celsius.

 

ComSenMod is set colder than vanilla by ~14° C. I notice you are more wet in the second screenshot. Do you also see a 35° C difference when you are dry?

[Henshaw]

Loot settings 50%. This is the reason? I thought that the percentage effect on frequency, not quantity.

 

It's the complete opposite to what you thought it is. No setting that affects frequency at all.

[TARCH26]

Crater Creator HUD rules himself. Took piece of code from wanderingShadow UI. The difference of temperatures see at the top left of the screenshot. On the second screenshot clearly shows the change of temperature after loading a save. I forgot, good that asked, I use COMPOPACK.

[TARCH26]

It's the complete opposite to what you thought it is. No setting that affects frequency at all.

 

Explain what affects <Loot settings>?

[The-Walking-Dad]

Do you plan on starting an a16 version immediately, or on playing vanilla for a time to get the feel for default loot settings etc?

[Crater Creator]

Good question. When Alpha 16 drops, I intend to merge ComSenMod with Alpha 16 vanilla before I play. From what I've seen, I don't think 15 vanilla -> 16 vanilla is going to change much of the things that ComSenMod changes. Of course, Gazz could do a zillion balance changes right before release. In any case, I want to try it out before the first A16 version of ComSenMod, so I don't give you guys something broken. Would you prefer something else?

Edited April 9, 2017 by Crater Creator (see edit history)

[The-Walking-Dad]

Good question. When Alpha 16 drops, I intend to merge ComSenMod with Alpha 16 vanilla before I play. From what I've seen, I don't think 15 vanilla -> 16 vanilla is going to change much of the things that ComSenMod changes. Of course, Gazz could do a zillion balance changes right before release. In any case, I want to try it out before the first A16 version of ComSenMod, so I don't give you guys something broken. Would you prefer something else?

 

Not at all, I was just asking because I use ComSenMod as standard in my single player games now. I'm more than happy to wait for a version you consider ready.

 

I have a suggestion also. Treasure chests at the moment contain real treasure; silver, gold and coins. Might it make sense to include food, clothing and medicine in this list to dilute it a bit?

 

This is coming from someone who modded traders out by the way and has no use for dukes unless using a vending machine (which I've altered to take old cash because come on, who would go around modifying the vending machines in a zombie apocalypse?)

Edited April 9, 2017 by The-Walking-Dad (see edit history)

[TARCH26]

Crater Creator Day 44, I finally found a recipe shotgun. Hallelujah!