V1.0 b330 EXP

[zerohour]

1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said:

From what I remember in the dev stream.  Yes they want it but just not now

Do you happen to have/know which stream they said that on? I've grown really interested on this

[Immhotep]

With consoles launching tomorrow its shocking that controller issues still haven't been fixed, especially the hold y/triangle. On console we won't have the option to reach for a keyboard and work around the controller issues. It's been a month, I'm not buying ps5 until it's fixed on pc. Unless you can confirm that the ps5/Xbox layouts are different to pc in advance. You have put the effort in to reactivate cursor so are aware it's an issue, why would you launch on console with such a backlash pending after so much time and money on getting to gold and relaunching on consoles. 

Also you still can't climb ladders 70% of the time. Most quests I am building cube towers to navigate a building. Got stuck in a teir 3 bunker thing and had to burrow my way to the surface 

 

[faatal]

16 hours ago, Arez said:

Excellent!!!

I'm assuming it's a distance dependent lowpass filter that's being used?

Also, has something similar been applied to when zombies are on the other side of a wall/ceiling/floor?

Audio occlusion is not simple. We have old code from before my time at TFP that looks like they tried it and it was disabled. Maybe someday if we run out of other stuff to add, but it would probably be a performance hit.

[joshwa0816]

I agree with several comments here that night is too bright, when in inventory at a trader some text is difficult to read

[Riamus]

4 minutes ago, faatal said:

Audio occlusion is not simple. We have old code from before my time at TFP that looks like they tried it and it was disabled. Maybe someday if we run out of other stuff to add, but it would probably be a performance hit.

I mean, even just a 50% reduced volume of on a different floor from you.  That would be limited, but at least a zombie 10 floors down won't sound like they are about to hit you in the back.

[faatal]

2 minutes ago, Riamus said:

I mean, even just a 50% reduced volume of on a different floor from you.  That would be limited, but at least a zombie 10 floors down won't sound like they are about to hit you in the back.

There is no concept of a floor. It is just a lot of blocks. You have to scan blocks/colliders to know what is in the way. Then you have to figure out what things you hit and what they should do to the sound. You have to do that on every sound call, which is a lot.

[Riamus]

17 minutes ago, faatal said:

There is no concept of a floor. It is just a lot of blocks. You have to scan blocks/colliders to know what is in the way. Then you have to figure out what things you hit and what they should do to the sound. You have to do that on every sound call, which is a lot.

Well, if something is 6m below you or above you, then it is pretty likely they are on the floor above it below you and elevation data is available.  Yes, if it's just a hill, that isn't the case.

 

But even if you just made it X distance.  I think that works for horizonal distance because if I go to another side of the building, the sound goes away.  But it doesn't appear to work vertically.  If it worked for vertical distance, you wouldn't hear the zombies on the first floor when you are high up in a skyscraper.  And that doesn't require figuring out what occludes the sound.  Just a thought.

[Adam the Waster]

3 hours ago, zerohour said:

Do you happen to have/know which stream they said that on? I've grown really interested on this

I believe it's the first or second.  Check the end for QNA

[4sheetzngeegles]

@faatal

 

Since there is no concept of floors, could it not be based on
distance alone. Using the gps of F3 calculator and the difference between
player and emitter, 100% within 3 blocks, and after that have
the volume adjustment lowered by 3 per additional block difference
so at 30  paces it would stay at the minimal setting sort of like using
a Cvar as a calculator to adjust it.

 

Or would they play havoc on the pc or console volume drivers?

 

I know it's not that simple, but I look at how in depth the changes have been
made from before and after you joined the team. Makes me hopeful.

[faatal]

1 hour ago, 4sheetzngeegles said:

@faatal

 

Since there is no concept of floors, could it not be based on
distance alone. Using the gps of F3 calculator and the difference between
player and emitter, 100% within 3 blocks, and after that have
the volume adjustment lowered by 3 per additional block difference
so at 30  paces it would stay at the minimal setting sort of like using
a Cvar as a calculator to adjust it.

 

Or would they play havoc on the pc or console volume drivers?

 

I know it's not that simple, but I look at how in depth the changes have been
made from before and after you joined the team. Makes me hopeful.

All these sounds are played as Unity Audio Sources. They have a curve for falloff with distance. Footsteps were just adjusted recently. This is footsteps, which has 0 volume at 20m.

 

Edited July 25 by faatal (see edit history)

[4sheetzngeegles]

I think I understand better now, so each and every sound would need an
individual one of these processes in real time. The only other
way to do that would be to record each and every sound 21 times
at ten percent drops per distance measured. Seeing the graph
shows me the magnitude of processing necessary.

 

Thank You

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

All these sounds are played as Unity Audio Sources. They have a curve for falloff with distance. Footsteps were just adjusted recently. This is footsteps, which has 0 volume at 20m.

 

I think even if it's too much to do for all sounds, the "voice" of the zombie (groan, scream, yell, whatever) that repeats as they are attacking walls and doors would be the one that would be most important, I think.  That constant growl... growl... growl... growl every couple of seconds that you hear from the first floor when you're many floors up gets old quickly.  Like I said, it seems to work for  horizontal distance, but doesn't seem to work for vertical distance.  But I should probably test that again.  I've tuned it out after all this time, so maybe something has changed in 1.0 and I haven't noticed the change.  Before, I'm pretty sure I could hear a zombie on the first floor when I was at the top of a skyscraper and it still sounded like it was right next to me.

[Arez]

34 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Before, I'm pretty sure I could hear a zombie on the first floor when I was at the top of a skyscraper and it still sounded like it was right next to me.

Yes, that was the case. I haven't played the new update so I don't know how the distance based filter is applied, but I'd imagine it works vertically seeing that the component is called "3D Sound Settings". 

 

As a side note: remember that we're only getting two sound delivery sources - left and right (speakers or headphones). There is a process called HRTF which is designed to replicate true 360 degree sound delivery (using stereo delivery only) based on how sound travels around a person's head before getting to their ears irl. I know that it's used in CSGO, but I don't think it's used in most (or any) other popular games. 

 

I do have some understanding of the performance expense of having audio occlusion. The game would have to check for and calculate for all sound sources and their obstacles for it to apply the proper audio frequency filtering.

 

I'm an audio engineer so I know how sound works, but I'm not a game developer so I'm not well versed in how it's applied in games. I do think there is a solution to the vertical audio problem that plagues most games (namely first person shooters) that does not require HRTF. It would be direction based audio levels and filtering. If something is on the floor above you and you look up towards it then the audio level of that sound should increase and additional filtering and/or EQ adjustment should be applied to clue the player in that the sound is above them. 

 

We don't need environmental reality all the time in video games. Unless we're talking about VR, games are still 2D experiences. Game devs seem to lean too much on replicating reality but don't realize that it's not helpful for the player because the player isn't experiencing a real 3D environment. Call of Duty (and other shooters of the like) are the worst at this. They try to make things look so real that you can't tell the difference between the background and the enemy because the player has no true sense of depth, and an enemy will just blend into the environment. Then you factor in audio and you can forget it. Unless you play with a Sony 360 or Dolby Atmos system, you'll never get true 3D sound. All of this needs to be simulated in an exaggerated, unrealistic way for it to be usable in a game.

 

That's was just a side rant not directed towards 7 Days. 7 Days needs to get audio occlusion through objects first, which I think is an important thing to have. Sound is a fundamental part of gaming. For one it's important aesthetically, but it's ultimately important as a gameplay utility. 

[meganoth]

12 hours ago, faatal said:

All these sounds are played as Unity Audio Sources. They have a curve for falloff with distance. Footsteps were just adjusted recently. This is footsteps, which has 0 volume at 20m.

 

 

 

This is a subjective thing, granted, but I played just yesterday and could hear a zombie growl as if beside me that was more than 10 blocks above me (tier3 POI with a big underground level that goes up into a garage). I am almost sure that that could not have been diminished to 55% like the curve suggests.

 

So either Unity does not get the height information (bug) or Unity itself does not really diminish 3D, but only horizontally (bug).

 

 

[falcon470]

Is this the final version for stable? still says prerelease software, supposed to be like that or we have to wait some minutes\hours for a patch? not trying to be rude but want to wait to make sure i have stable now that i think its out

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, falcon470 said:

Is this the final version for stable? still says prerelease software, supposed to be like that or we have to wait some minutes\hours for a patch? not trying to be rude but want to wait to make sure i have stable now that i think its out

 

If it works like with every alpha before (and I think TFP said they would not change the method) then B330 B333 is identical to stable. Just play and don't bother about that label

 

Edited July 25 by meganoth (see edit history)

[AllUses]

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

 

If it works like with every alpha before (and I think TFP said they would not change the method) then B330 is identical to stable. Just play and don't bother about that label

 

It‘s now b333 experimental. Don‘t want to start playing b333 if stable is another update. Worst case you need to start a new map and you can‘t copy player; this is no longer working since beta experimental.

 

[schwanz9000]

As of this post, B333 is B333 whether you're on Beta "None" or Beta "latest_experimental". 

 

[meganoth]

14 minutes ago, AllUses said:

It‘s now b333 experimental. Don‘t want to start playing b333 if stable is another update. Worst case you need to start a new map and you can‘t copy player; this is no longer working since beta experimental.

 

 

Yeah, meant to say b333, with all the new patches coming out I lost count 😁