How can the game still be this unbalanced? It's been 10 years.

[vom]

On 7/18/2024 at 9:16 AM, Slingblade2040 said:

So I'm on my second play through

 

..and you are whining already?

I've played this game since before traders existed, and I just ignore them entirely. No idea why you are crying.

 

I've never done a quest. You don't have to do them.

 

.

Edited July 27 by vom (see edit history)

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

What isn't mentioned there but is discussed in another post is that he focuses on maxing his melee perk ASAP.  And if  you beeline your melee perk to the exclusion of most other perks you drastically increase the rate you get skill books and weapon parts. If the game were balanced to his playstyle it would be miserably slow for anyone that does not prioritize maxing the melee perk.  In my experience, when you spread your points weapon crafting skill progression is much, much slower than he describes. 

 

I know. The problem is that you can influence the magazine loot roll too much with the perks. Even if someone doesn't do 5 quests a day he will have the ability to build high level weapons too early when focusing on very few magazine perks. The only thing that works against this scheme is that you also need a massive amount of forged steel to craft such a weapon.

 

 

[Riamus]

I almost wonder if it would be better to remove that influence from perks entirely.  Yes, that lowers the rate you will get specific magazines, but it would probably make it a more balanced system.

Edited July 29 by Riamus (see edit history)

[4sheetzngeegles]

Imho the game can never be truly balanced, why, it's neither a positive or negative view,  just an observation

from one of millions. There are too many aspects of so many Genres of gameplay, each has it's own default

adapted/adopted and assumed rules, and too many generations of thought for one game to conquer them all

equally, at least not in a default vanilla presentation. Since they left in the ability to adjust most of the other aspects,

i intend to take full advantage now that they my slow down with the version to version updates.

It Pandora's Box but in a good way.

[Kosmic Kerman]

On 7/27/2024 at 7:34 PM, meganoth said:

 

I know. The problem is that you can influence the magazine loot roll too much with the perks. Even if someone doesn't do 5 quests a day he will have the ability to build high level weapons too early when focusing on very few magazine perks. The only thing that works against this scheme is that you also need a massive amount of forged steel to craft such a weapon.

 

 

But does this really matter? I like that there are various ways to speed and slow progression. Want to mostly skip primitive stage? Prioritize daring adventurer. Want to get weapons/armor/workstations faster? Perk accordingly. Want to take it slow? Spread your points and enjoy all the QOL that provides. I like that the options are available even if I tend not to speed progression because I know there will be playthroughs when I want to. 

[BFT2020]

On 7/27/2024 at 9:05 PM, Riamus said:

I almost won't if it would be better to remove that influence from perks entirely.  Yes, that lowers the rate you will get specific magazines, but it would probably make it a more balanced system.

 

One idea that has been bouncing around in my head recently is lowering the affect the perks have on finding magazines (not removing them completely) and then also boosting all the chances so once you complete a series, it has a lower chance of being picked compared to  a series you are not perked into.

 

Right now, everything has a default prob of 1 so even odds to get any magazine non-perked.   As you starting perking into abilities, the chance of finding a magazine related to that perk increases normally by 2 for each level of perk (based on a perk with 5 levels).  However, once you complete the magazine series you lose the perk bonuses and it goes back to prob of 1 - same as everything else.

 

However, if everything started at prob of 3, but then went to a prob of 1 once you found all the magazines - the non-perked magazines would then have a higher chance of dropping at that point (not significant, but better odds).

 

For reducing the impact on perks, it would change from

• Ranged weapon mags - 5 (including bows) - max level in one perk - 73% chance of dropping the max perk magazine
• Ranged weapon mags - 5 (including bows) - max level in one perk but halved the impact - 60% chance of dropping the max perk magazine
• All mags - 23 (from memory, might be missing one) - max level in one perk - 33% chance of dropping the max perk magazine
• All mags - 23 (from memory, might be missing one) - max level in one perk but halved the impact - 21% chance of dropping the max perk magazine

I tend to play no repairs allowed so crafting becomes very important in order to keep ahead of the zombies.  I also tend to use all weapons during horde night, even ones I don't max out the perks into (I know, sacrilegious!)

 

Though this is just simply an idea bouncing around and maybe once implemented, is nothing more than a meh

[Fox]

49 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

One idea that has been bouncing around in my head recently is lowering the affect the perks have on finding magazines (not removing them completely) and then also boosting all the chances so once you complete a series, it has a lower chance of being picked compared to  a series you are not perked into.

 

Right now, everything has a default prob of 1 so even odds to get any magazine non-perked.   As you starting perking into abilities, the chance of finding a magazine related to that perk increases normally by 2 for each level of perk (based on a perk with 5 levels).  However, once you complete the magazine series you lose the perk bonuses and it goes back to prob of 1 - same as everything else.

 

However, if everything started at prob of 3, but then went to a prob of 1 once you found all the magazines - the non-perked magazines would then have a higher chance of dropping at that point (not significant, but better odds).

 

For reducing the impact on perks, it would change from

• Ranged weapon mags - 5 (including bows) - max level in one perk - 73% chance of dropping the max perk magazine
• Ranged weapon mags - 5 (including bows) - max level in one perk but halved the impact - 60% chance of dropping the max perk magazine
• All mags - 23 (from memory, might be missing one) - max level in one perk - 33% chance of dropping the max perk magazine
• All mags - 23 (from memory, might be missing one) - max level in one perk but halved the impact - 21% chance of dropping the max perk magazine

I tend to play no repairs allowed so crafting becomes very important in order to keep ahead of the zombies.  I also tend to use all weapons during horde night, even ones I don't max out the perks into (I know, sacrilegious!)

 

Though this is just simply an idea bouncing around and maybe once implemented, is nothing more than a meh

Or, why not make a mod that brings the game back to the way it used to be... you know, when the game was still fun. No perks / skills at all (or at least heavily reduced to a level that makes sense), you can craft / do anything you want from the beginning and all loot is no longer level gated, making it actually worth looting again. Anyone who's ever played Alpha 10.4 knows how fun that version was and that's how it used to be.

[BFT2020]

8 minutes ago, Fox said:

Or, why not make a mod that brings the game back to the way it used to be... you know, when the game was still fun. No perks / skills at all (or at least heavily reduced to a level that makes sense), you can craft / do anything you want from the beginning and all loot is no longer level gated, making it actually worth looting again. Anyone who's ever played Alpha 10.4 knows how fun that version was and that's how it used to be.

 

Not interested in a mod like that, I like the way it is today

[meganoth]

17 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

But does this really matter? I like that there are various ways to speed and slow progression. Want to mostly skip primitive stage? Prioritize daring adventurer. Want to get weapons/armor/workstations faster? Perk accordingly. Want to take it slow? Spread your points and enjoy all the QOL that provides. I like that the options are available even if I tend not to speed progression because I know there will be playthroughs when I want to. 

 

Yes it matters because the way the perk systems boots magazines is not revealed to players, and that is intentional. Sure you could say that is for them to discover and learn over multiple playthroughs if they stay with the game. But my guess is the typical player will not really notice WHY his crafting progress is soo slow but just put it on bad balance. Other players will just stumble on the fast path through luck or chance or habit, and without any intent whatsoever make their progress too fast and again put it on bad balance. There will surely be players who make the right guesses, and naturally veterans will know, but for the rest crafting progression will just be a highly random affair.