New content vs game mechanic overhauls

[theFlu]

Oh, cool, Logical Fallacies, straight from wikipedia, mostly misapplied... oh well. At least there's couple great examples of someone deving a game even slightly better? Oh, wait. No there isn't?

 

2 hours ago, Lasher said:

For a start you've attempted to straw man my argument by making it over simplified "Oh, it's just trolling" - logical fallacy number one.

 

Straw man... should be attacking an argument you haven't made. Implication of "Trolling" isn't an argument, not from me nor falsely from you. Trolling is a noble sport, enjoyed by all ages above 4; it's not even a proper ad hominem, I'm not trying to address your argument when I describe your behaviour there. At worst, it's an honest insult..

Personal incredulity .. yeah, got me there. I still can't believe you're being serious; can you blame me? Still kinda looking for that example of someone doing something similar, that much better. Dev takes time. Stating the state of reality isn't "weak", you just don't like it. Ruf.

[Lasher]

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

Oh, cool, Logical Fallacies, straight from wikipedia, mostly misapplied... oh well. At least there's couple great examples of someone deving a game even slightly better? Oh, wait. No there isn't?

 

 

Straw man... should be attacking an argument you haven't made. Implication of "Trolling" isn't an argument, not from me nor falsely from you. Trolling is a noble sport, enjoyed by all ages above 4; it's not even a proper ad hominem, I'm not trying to address your argument when I describe your behaviour there. At worst, it's an honest insult..

Personal incredulity .. yeah, got me there. I still can't believe you're being serious; can you blame me? Still kinda looking for that example of someone doing something similar, that much better. Dev takes time. Stating the state of reality isn't "weak", you just don't like it. Ruf.

 

Unlike you I didn't have to go and look up logical fallacies on wikipedia.

Someone deving a game better? Now it's my turn to think you're not being serious.

You'd be hard pushed to come up with a game being deved WORSE.

You actally want examples of better deved games?

Firstly - everything - but how about

Valheim

Grim Dawn

Deep Rock Galactic

V Rising

Last Epoch

Or 90 of the titles out there.

Go look at Spacebourne 2 - That's an example of a small team - and look at the progress.

And they don't use early access as an excuse for not getting the job done after selling milions of copies.

 

Again I really don't want to argue it with you - you don't have an arguement.

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Lasher (see edit history)

[Lasher]

2 hours ago, Greymantle said:

It's obvious they have no plan on the direction of the game. You only have to look at what the last 5 versions and all the system overhauls. Now we're getting to version 21 and who knows how many more. This is the issue with early access and getting all the money they did up front. They have no focus anymore to finish the game, they are just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks.

 

Again- This.

[BFT2020]

On 6/17/2023 at 9:54 AM, Lasher said:

You'd be hard pushed to come up with a game being deved WORSE.

 

Couldn't resist  😁

 

Duke Nukem Forever

Star Citizen

 

Those 2 came easily to mind.  And that doesn't include the games that were abandoned in early access.

[Lasher]

On 6/21/2023 at 6:29 PM, BFT2020 said:

 

Couldn't resist  😁

 

Duke Nukem Forever

Star Citizen

 

Those 2 came easily to mind.  And that doesn't include the games that were abandoned in early access.

Ha! - I'll give you those that's for sure.

Duke is just an industry joke now - and Star Citizen? Well who knows - I think they vanished into the vortex of "Feature creep" and I'm not sure there's a way out...

[Laz Man]

This is an interesting thread.  Adding new content will increase dev time and further push out that 1.0 release. 

 

Pushing out the 1.0 release further will make players upset dev time takes too long...🤔

 

If anything, the team not releasing new content (that isnt on the kickstarter) IS a commitment to finishing the game finally. 

 

As far as "reworking existing game mechanics," that is really just fixing systems that are either broken/placeholder or not working 100% to their design.  I know this one is a tough one to adapt to as folks get use to older gameplay mechanics.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[saltychipmunk]

39 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

This is an interesting thread.  Adding new content will increase dev time and further push out that 1.0 release. 

This is not necessarily true. It depends on what content you are talking about and if it contributes to whatever is bottlenecking your project.

 

if for example in the case of the fun pimps if the big thing preventing a release of content is nailing down the ai of some bandits  so that they are fun without murdering resources then progress to the next release is really not going to care much is someone decides to make another 100 high resolution asset replacements for various objects in the world.

 

This is probably why alpha 21 has so many new assets in the world.  They weren't the bottleneck and they did not actively impede the progress of whatever the bottleneck is  

 

 

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, saltychipmunk said:

This is not necessarily true. It depends on what content you are talking about and if it contributes to whatever is bottlenecking your project.

 

if for example in the case of the fun pimps if the big thing preventing a release of content is nailing down the ai of some bandits  so that they are fun without murdering resources then progress to the next release is really not going to care much is someone decides to make another 100 high resolution asset replacements for various objects in the world.

 

This is probably why alpha 21 has so many new assets in the world.  They weren't the bottleneck and they did not actively impede the progress of whatever the bottleneck is  

 

 

 

I guess it depends what people consider new content.  For example, adding more vehicles and more zombies when bandit characters are not done yet is a good example of "new content" that would delay the 1.0 release.  

On 6/15/2023 at 10:41 PM, ungkor said:

Lots of good discussion.  Thanks everyone.

 

I guess my bottom line is, its been something like 10 years.  You'd think that after a decade, they could have decided on a the basic leveling/looting mechanics, and moved on to making the game grander and bigger.

 

Surely they must have enough money at this point to hire tons of developers and make this game move forward.  

 

As a developer myself, I've never, ever, seen any software product in an 'alpha stage' for a decade.   The excuse of "well, its just in alpha" is getting a bit tiring after 10 years.   Make a decision about the skills, perks, and basic game mechanics, and start moving the game forward in terms of content and expansions.   Stop hiding behind the idea that "oh, we are just a small team".  10 years... If they aren't making a ton of money, they are doing something wrong business-wise. 

 

They've sold 10 million copies according to wikipedia.  How can you not make a robust, expansive, finished and polished game at this point.   At this rate, it will be in alpha for the next 10 years, with every other new release completely overhauling the skills and perks each time.   

 

Yep, the development of the game has certainly taken a long time.  Being fairly new to the team myself, I can't directly speak to the earlier years of development.  All I can say at this point is the main focus right now is to finish the remaining main features promised in the original kickstarter (e.g. bandits, story, etc.).  Significant progress has been made into these missing features, its just they didn't get into A21 because they are not done yet.

 

While those features are being completed, other systems will be buttoned up, optimized, and fixed where needed.  

 

 

[Roland]

Let's be crystal clear. @Laz Man joined the team and Alpha 21 was the longest dev cycle in the game's development history. Just saying....

Edited June 24, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[theFlu]

On 6/23/2023 at 9:49 PM, Roland said:

@Laz Man joined the team and Alpha 21 was the longest dev cycle in the game's development history.

Darn QA, actually doing their jobs..?

[mprojekt]

On 5/26/2023 at 10:58 PM, Riamus said:

Just don't feed them after midnight. 

 

Also, don't get them wet! Avoid swimming pools at all costs.

[Kostriktor]

are you actually asking for another title full of dumb content ?
i cherrish them for trying their best with what they have.
we have enough games that keep releasing "content" and dont fix their game, probably appealing to audience like yourself, lol.
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