steel powered garage door

[Terro]

https://imgur.com/AqEEDEM

 

Hopefully that screenshot paste of my building issue works.. a picture speaks a thousand words.

6x garage doors, 5 unpowered, 1 powered straight into generator.

 

If screenshot didnt work here's what im doing:

Im building an underground base under a road and want to drive my car in with sensors but steel powered garage doors arent working for me. 

I dug a hole in the road with underground ramp that decends to my base.

I covered the hole in the road with steel powered garage doors so they would cover the road nice and flat for zombies to just walk over (instead of a protruding vertical structure with doors).

However, the garage doors snap the wrong way (vertical and i need horizontal so they cover the hole in the road, there is no 3D snapping i think). The problem is the doors in their relaxed position arent closed for my build. (compare my build with a helicopter pad using garage doors on top)

If all i do is hook a generator straight into a door, it assumes the correct position.

So i need to power them always in order for them to be closed. Motion sensor triggers send power, not cut off power. To my knowledge.

 

 

I hope it makes sence and someone has a fix for my dilemma. Friend and I have wasted lots of time experimenting with sensors/switches/power.

[theFlu]

The explanation is quite understandable, but I guess that's where the good news end. There's no proper way to achieve that in vanilla.

 

The best automated solution would be to overpower a battery bank when a camera sees you - but those are really iffy, they may break on login or even chunk load. (Add just enough batteries to keep the doors open, then add a camera with enough traps/lights/other behind it to go over the output limit)

 

Switches will have the obvious issue of not being able to operate it from both sides. Maybe you don't need to but it's not great.

 

A trickier solution is to build your own switches from relays, that would require using a wire tool to switch. Rather far from automation, but you can achieve two points of switching like that.

 

Basically two sets of three relays ... first one has power coming in to one relay, then two "outgoing" relays. The two "outgoing" are connected to the other switching site to two separate "incoming" relays (one outgoing to one incoming). The 3rd relay at the second site is an output-relay. At the first site, you connect the wire from the power side to one of the in-between lines, and then on the second site, either of the incoming to the output-relay. If you swap the wiring at the first site, you break the circuit there, but also enable the other end to switch it back on by powering the other line. At the second site, there's always a powered relay to connect from, so you choose based on that.

 

Not ideal, far from it, but ... workable. Ish.

[Terro]

Thanx a ton for that info flu. Ya i just had dinner watching utube and saw

Thanx again

[theFlu]

Yer welcome

 

That two-switch idea is simple enough to describe as text, but might be hard to grasp from text, so I figured I might as well do a little backyard demo of it:

https://odysee.com/@theFlu:d/doubleSwitch7dtd:d

 

 

[Riamus]

I like this idea and will probably try it myself for fun.

 

I think this is a good example of how having some additional electrical wiring options would really be helpful.   Even just adding an option for doors of default open or default closed (default being the unpowered position) would solve this nicely.  But it would also be nice to have gates available - something that takes at least two inputs and then has options of AND OR NOT XOR XAND available.  You can do some of this already if you know what you're doing (AND is automatic of there is singing between two triggers, OR is if two or more triggers are tied together with nothing between them).  But having actual gates available with all options would be great.  And having something allowing multiple inputs would be very useful as well.

[FA_Q2]

God yes, PLEASE add a logic system to the electrical one.  It would be fantastic.

 

[Melange]

I kinda gave up on the wiring logic when I could not drive my vehicle near the electrified garage door and the dang cameras/ switch plates would not recognize me whilst I was in the drivers seat.

Having to get out of the car, well I could just open the door myself then.  Resource-wise its a lot cheaper.  Goofy, ya think?

 

Open the pod bay door. Its me, Mel.

 

I can't do that, because I don't know who you are. 

 

I wanna reprogram yer butt, because you DO know who I am.

 

Sorry Mel, I don't have the logic to let you in. 

 

Primitive. It's not 2001 anymore.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Melange (see edit history)

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, Melange said:

I kinda gave up on the wiring logic when I could not drive my vehicle near the electrified garage door and the dang cameras/ switch plates would not recognize me whilst I was in the drivers seat.

Having to get out of the car, well I could just open the door myself then.

You can do vehicle-detection with at least cameras and trip wires, I haven't tried trigger plates but I would be surprised if not. For cams & wires it isn't even really different from walking detection, I haven't run into any vehicle-specific issues with either.

 

You may have been bugged.

[BFT2020]

Surprisingly I never used automatic doors in A20 so everything I know is based on A19, but like theFlu stated, cameras detect you when you are in the vehicle.  I had two garage doors setup with cameras on the outside to open up.  Both the motorcycle and 4x4 worked as I just had to drive up and it would open automatically without me getting out of the vehicle.

 

I used pressure plates inside (for me to step on prior to getting inside the vehicle) as the cameras kept opening up while I was working in that location (I had storage and crafting stations in that location so constantly tripping the cameras).  Not sure if I ever tried a switch to turn off the cameras in those situations, and never thought about trying trip wires for vehicles (will have to try that next time).

 

Though in that case, my main base was also my horde base so I spent more time thinking on how I was going to fortify it for the next horde night so QoL improvements were lowering on the list.

[Loboling]

I can confirm that automatic doors work with vehicles in A20. I made a very similar base into a road once, although I made a ramp into it, rather than making it a roof, but it would open as I approached with my motorcycle so I could ride in. 

Motion sensor, automatic garage door is confirmed. 

I don't sadly have a video of it. 

[Terro]

Im looking at jawoodle's youtube with the inverse powering using overloading on car batteries but im not getting it 100%. At least its not working for me.. I dont think he shows everything like how he actually wires things, which is probably why im failing.
Also he uses creative mode to make level 1-5 batteries.. my character can craft level 5 batteries in crafting menu but when i craft them in workbenches they just turn into normal level 1 batteries.. i can craft them in mechanic and chemistry workbenches with differing matterials, iv tried but both and they just craft level 1 batteries.
Im playing on DarknessFalls mod, maybe thats why i cant craft level batteries, but nontheless i can still put 6x lvl 1 (25W each) batteries in a battery bank which should be ok.

Here's what im experimenting with now:
(subject to change so if i update it check below in chat if i have updates)

RELAYS--->
[relay_LEFT_DOOR]=3x garage doors (5W each=15W total)
[relay_RIGHT_DOOR]=3x garage doors (5W each=15W total)
[relay_ALL_DOOR]=[relay_LEFT_DOOR]+[relay_RIGHT_DOOR]=(30W total)
[relay_ALL_LIGHTS]=4x player lights (10W each=40W total)
[relay_MOTION_SENSORS]=[msensor_INSIDE]+[msensor_OUTSIDE]=2x motion sensors (5W each=10W total)

connections:
BatteryBank1->[msensor_INSIDE]->[Smsensor_OUTSIDE]->[relay_MOTION_SENSORS]->BatteryBank2->[relay_ALL_DOOR]->[relay_ALL_LIGHTS]

BATTERIES--->
BatteryBank1=(2x25Wbattery=50W)=[relay_ALL_DOOR]30W+[relay_MOTION_SENSORS]10W=40W
BatteryBank2=(4x25Wbattery=100W)

BATTERY LOGIC->
BattertyBank1 needs to power [relay_ALL_DOOR] (30W)+ 2x sensors (2x5W=10W) = 30+10=40W
If sensors detect someone I want battery1 to overload to make doors open.. they should trigger lights which is +40W=battery1(40W)+40W=80W
1batterylvl1=25W
BatteryBank1 has 2xBatteryLVL1=50W
BatteryBank2 has 4xBatteryLVL1=100W
Do i lower the batteryBank2 W?

MOTION SENSOR SETTINGS--->
[msensor_INSIDE]
power delay instant
power duration 10sec

[msensor_OUTSIDE]
power delay instant
power duration 10sec

the two motion sensors are currently just somewhere close to my testing area facing opposite directions so i can stand/walk and test each sensor... my thinking is 2sensor to represent 2sides of the gates..
one sensor represents inside other outside of doors. Im thinking i should get either one to overload the system, which would cut the power, making the doors open for a period before they close again.. maybe depending on settings of the sensors?Im looking at jawoodle's youtube with the inverse powering using overloading on car batteries but im not getting it 100%. At least its not working for me.. I dont think he shows everything like how he actually wires things, which is probably why im failing.
Also he uses creative mode to make level 1-5 batteries.. my character can craft level 5 batteries in crafting menu but when i craft them in workbenches they just turn into normal level 1 batteries.. i can craft them in mechanic and chemistry workbenches with differing matterials, iv tried but both and they just craft level 1 batteries.
Im playing on DarknessFalls mod, maybe thats why i cant craft level batteries, but nontheless i can still put 6x lvl 1 (25W each) batteries in a battery bank which should be ok.

Here's what im experimenting with now:
(subject to change so if i update it check below in chat if i have updates)

RELAYS--->
[relay_LEFT_DOOR]=3x garage doors (5W each=15W total)
[relay_RIGHT_DOOR]=3x garage doors (5W each=15W total)
[relay_ALL_DOOR]=[relay_LEFT_DOOR]+[relay_RIGHT_DOOR]=(30W total)
[relay_ALL_LIGHTS]=4x player lights (10W each=40W total)
[relay_MOTION_SENSORS]=[msensor_INSIDE]+[msensor_OUTSIDE]=2x motion sensors (5W each=10W total)

connections:
BatteryBank1->[msensor_INSIDE]->[Smsensor_OUTSIDE]->[relay_MOTION_SENSORS]->BatteryBank2->[relay_ALL_DOOR]->[relay_ALL_LIGHTS]

BATTERIES--->
BatteryBank1=(2x25Wbattery=50W)=[relay_ALL_DOOR]30W+[relay_MOTION_SENSORS]10W=40W
BatteryBank2=(4x25Wbattery=100W)

BATTERY LOGIC->
BattertyBank1 needs to power [relay_ALL_DOOR] (30W)+ 2x sensors (2x5W=10W) = 30+10=40W
If sensors detect someone I want battery1 to overload to make doors open.. they should trigger lights which is +40W=battery1(40W)+40W=80W
1batterylvl1=25W
BatteryBank1 has 2xBatteryLVL1=50W
BatteryBank2 has 4xBatteryLVL1=100W
Do i lower the batteryBank2 W?

MOTION SENSOR SETTINGS--->
[msensor_INSIDE]
power delay instant
power duration 10sec

[msensor_OUTSIDE]
power delay instant
power duration 10sec

the two motion sensors are currently just somewhere close to my testing area facing opposite directions so i can stand/walk and test each sensor... my thinking is 2sensor to represent 2sides of the gates..
one sensor represents inside other outside of doors. Im thinking i should get either one to overload the system, which would cut the power, making the doors open for a period before they close again.. maybe depending on settings of the sensors?

 

[theFlu]

I haven't tried the trick you're trying, only seen it that JaWoodle experiment, so, hefty grains of salt here.

That said, I think that trick relies on the fact that a Battery Bank will not provide output power while being charged. It only passes through the power that is being fed to it. So, connecting the BatteryBank1 to the BatteryBank2 (via the cameras), drops the 100W Bank2 power entirely out of the equation.

 

If that's how it works, I would try something like:

Bank1 -> sensors -> LIGHTS HERE -> Bank2 -> Doors

You're trying to overload the Bank1, so sensors + lights + "Bank2 recharge requirement" should exactly match Bank1 capacity, so the Bank1 can't provide any beyond Bank2 charging. Turn lights on/off for easy adjusting.

 

This of course assumes that the powered components are activated in the order of the connections, I don't think that's an entirely flawless assumption, but it's the best I got..

And yeh, I haven't even tried it in vanilla, and you're playing an overhaul.. might not apply. At all.

 

EDIT: lights might not work as adjustments..

Edited December 9, 2022 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Terro]

i cant believe nobody else has tried these types of doors before.. It's perfect for an underground base

https://imgur.com/vYGLmvY

[doughphunghus]

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

I haven't tried the trick you're trying, only seen it that JaWoodle experiment, so, hefty grains of salt here.

That said, I think that trick relies on the fact that a Battery Bank will not provide output power while being charged. It only passes through the power that is being fed to it. So, connecting the BatteryBank1 to the BatteryBank2 (via the cameras), drops the 100W Bank2 power entirely out of the equation.

 

If that's how it works, I would try something like:

Bank1 -> sensors -> LIGHTS HERE -> Bank2 -> Doors

You're trying to overload the Bank1, so sensors + lights + "Bank2 recharge requirement" should exactly match Bank1 capacity, so the Bank1 can't provide any beyond Bank2 charging. Turn lights on/off for easy adjusting.

 

This of course assumes that the powered components are activated in the order of the connections, I don't think that's an entirely flawless assumption, but it's the best I got..

And yeh, I haven't even tried it in vanilla, and you're playing an overhaul.. might not apply. At all.

I haven't tried this at all, but i did do some dabbling with "overriding" and trying to do logic long ago. Anyway, one thing you might want to try, if things are jot working like you think they should, is not connect things directly to each other (like bank -> sensors, for example) but instead have them connected via basic wire relays (bank -> relay -> sensors). I don't remember the issues i had, just i needed to put a relay in between components, sometimes, to get things to work like i imagined they should. This was in older builds, so maybe it was a bug back then.

Edited December 7, 2022 by doughphunghus (see edit history)

[theFlu]

2 minutes ago, doughphunghus said:

I don't remember the issues i had, just i needed to put a relay in between components, sometimes, to get things to work like i imagined they should.

Depends a lot on how you imagined they should..

The one significant difference a relay does cause is to turn an OR relationship between triggers into an AND:

1) Cam - Trip wire - Dart trap

2) Cam - Relay - Trip wire - Dart trap

 

1 will fire when either the cam sees something OR the wire is tripped

2 will fire when the cam sees something AND the wire is tripped

 

Basically, the powerless relay in 2) won't give power to the Trip wire, while the (powered but not triggered) Camera in 1) will.

[Terro]

2 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Depends a lot on how you imagined they should..

The one significant difference a relay does cause is to turn an OR relationship between triggers into an AND:

1) Cam - Trip wire - Dart trap

2) Cam - Relay - Trip wire - Dart trap

 

1 will fire when either the cam sees something OR the wire is tripped

2 will fire when the cam sees something AND the wire is tripped

 

Basically, the powerless relay in 2) won't give power to the Trip wire, while the (powered but not triggered) Camera in 1) will.

im not using tripwires or dart traps.. i just want to use motion sensors to make the doors open when i drive a vehicle to my base

[theFlu]

5 minutes ago, Terro said:

im not using tripwires or dart traps..

Umm, I know, but welcome to the world of internet forums, where people don't mostly stay on topic I was just adding some possible context to dough-boy's comment, my doing so indicated by my quoting him to reply ...

[FA_Q2]

14 hours ago, Terro said:

im not using tripwires or dart traps.. i just want to use motion sensors to make the doors open when i drive a vehicle to my base

This does not change anything.  All sensors, save maybe tripwires as I have not tested those, act in this manner.  They are always configured into an OR gate when connected together (even differing types) and work as an AND gate when they are separated by anything that is not a sensor.  This is not a proper logic structure but it is the best we have got for the time being.

 

What you really need is an XOR gate and, AFAIK, this is not possible in the current system which is why overloading the system has been suggested.  

[Riamus]

21 hours ago, Terro said:

im not using tripwires or dart traps.. i just want to use motion sensors to make the doors open when i drive a vehicle to my base

A basic wiring setup is to have a door for entering and a door for exiting.  On the enter door, place a motion sensor outside, pointing toward the area you want to trigger from (usually right in front of the door).  Connect wires from power to the motion sensor and from the motion sensor to the *powered* garage door.  It has to be one that says it is powered. Verify that the motion sensor is set to self and allies if you want allies to trigger it.  For the exit, do the same, but place the camera on the inside, facing near the exit door.

 

The somewhat more complicated, and far less obvious, method is to have a door that opens both entering and exiting.  This requires your sensors to be connected directly to one another (nothing between them, including no relays).  If using cameras, place one inside and one outside.  Wire it from power to camera one, then to camera two, then to the door.  Aim the cameras and set them to trigger for you and allies if you want allies.  Other sensors can be used instead of cameras and are wired the same way.  It is required that you do not place anything between the two cameras/sensors if you want the door to open from both directions.  You can have relays and other things before the two cameras or after them, but not between them.

 

Either option works with and without a vehicle.

[Terro]

cheers to SkateQc for his youtube explaining it really well..

However, I cant craft leveled batteries for some reason, maybe cus DarknessFalls. Character tab shows i can craft lvl5 batteries in workshops, but once crafted theyre just lvl1. Also cant find leveled batteries in Creative Mode, just a level 1 lead car battery (25W).

 

I had it working close to perfect. Going in was perfect, but driving out was 50% chance to leave door open. Cant remember if it reopened or just stayed open..

Why? Prolly cus driving in(down) u had to slow down or you'd get airtime on the down slope and smash into ceiling. This prolly made you take the 4sec of a camera's delay to get to the next camera.

Driving out(up) u could go pretty fast.. which i think led to both cameras seeing you too quickly in succession and screwing it up somehow.

So friend started tweaking and before i knew it everything was changed and it didnt work at all.. shoulda noted how it was put together before tweaking it. 

 

Anyways I experimented a ton again from scratch, failing to get it to even open all 6 doors properly cus i dont remember battery Watts or how many lights i used. Current problem is either all doors dont work, or only 5 doors work.

Experimented for at least an hour or two again failing to get it back to where it was, prolly just need to fiddle more with high/low battery W and the W of lights.. i need a break.

 

Here's how Skaters build goes and then mine.. the battery/light values on mine are still experimented on. It can work, iv seen it work..

 

 

SKATER'S BUILD with 2x2doors and lvl1+lvl5 batteries:
 

*****COMPONENTS*****
HIGH_BATTERY
LOW_BATTERY
LIGHTS
relay_LEFT_DOORS-->L_DOOR1-->L_DOOR2
relay_RIGHT_DOORS-->R_DOOR1-->R_DOOR2
SENSOR_INSIDE
SENSOR_OUTSIDE
SENSOR SETTINGS: PowerDelay=Instant, PowerDuration=4sec(detect player+ally)

*****THE CIRQUIT*****
LOW_BATTERY-->SENSOR_INSIDE-->SENSOR_OUTSIDE-->HIGH_BATTERY
HIGH_BATTERY-->LIGHTS
HIGH_BATTERY-->relay_LEFT_DOORS-->L_DOOR1-->L_DOOR2
HIGH_BATTERY-->relay_RIGHT_DOORS-->R_DOOR1-->R_DOOR2

 

skater's stuff:
HIGH_BATTERY = 45W (1x level 5 lead car battery)
LOW_BATTERY = 29W (1x level 1 lead car battery)
3x industrial light = 3x7W=21W
2sensors=2x5=10W
4door=4x5W=20W
2relay=2x1W=2W
43W with lights
22W without lights

 

 

MY BUILD WITH 2x3DOORS AND 25W LEAD CAR BATTERIES:

 

HIGH_BATTERY=4x25W=100W (tweaking)
LOW_BATTERY=2x25W=50W (tweaking)
TOTAL_BATTERY=150W
6door=6x5W=30W
2relay=2x1W=2W
2sensors=2x5W=10W
TOTAL WITHOUT LIGHTS=42W
LIGHTS (tweaking)

0x5W=0W
3x7W=21W
2x10W=20W
TOTAL LIGHTS=41

 

My build is same, just i use 6doors and lvl 1 lead car batteries.. experimenting with high/low battery values and amount of lights to get doors working properly again.

[Riamus]

As a note, in creative menu, use search and type one letter at a time of an item's name.  The level of the item will change as you do. Not sure why it works this way, but you can usually manage to get the level you want this way.

[theFlu]

5 hours ago, Terro said:

HIGH_BATTERY=4x25W=100W (tweaking)
LOW_BATTERY=2x25W=50W (tweaking)
TOTAL_BATTERY=150W

Quoting a randomish section.. I ended up testing that version of mine with everything in one chain, and I got it working. Basically:

Bank1 (41W) -> Cam (5W) x 2 -> Light (5W) x 6 -> Bank2 (100W) -> Doors (5W) x 6

 

I had some issues, I couldn't get it properly stable with a 45W Bank1 and lights. One door was doing its own thing.

That issue stabilised with the 41W watt bank. The chain drains 40W, so it happens to deliver exactly 1W to Bank2 when activated. That seems perfect to shut Bank2 off while powering as little as possible past it.

 

Basically it looks like "charging" bank 2 doesn't actually cost any power, so the 5W extra was enough to open that one door.

 

Might be worth giving the idea a try.. at least it makes sense this way...

 

Also note, I earlier mentioned turning lights on/off to adjust the power.. seems that my lights were draining their nominal power even while off, so, might wanna verify that. I was using the Industrial Light Bulbs. I edited the above..

 

EDIT: for a little clarity.

Edited December 9, 2022 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Terro]

7 hours ago, theFlu said:

Bank1 (41W) -> Cam (5W) x 2 -> Light (5W) x 6 -> Bank2 (100W) -> Doors (5W) x 6

I have lines going from bigbattery to lights.. like skater and it did work before somehow.

smallbank->2cam->bigbank

bigbank->2doorrelays->6doors

bigbank->lights

 

I have wondered how the overcharge works this way but decided not to question it.. your way does make actual sense.

 

You put wires straight from the cameras to the lights?

Without a relay between cam to lights? Thought cams could only have 1 outgoing wire.

You can connect a cam to 5lights+bank2 with 6 direct wires out of a cam?

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Terro (see edit history)

[theFlu]

18 minutes ago, Terro said:

I have wondered how the overcharge works this way but decided not to question it..

Well, it can work, as long as the lights after Bank2 end up taking up the power first - but nothing is guaranteeing that. With the electric system occasionally being unable to decide whether a component is a Trip Wire or an Electric Fence, I wouldn't trust a "loading order" to remain static for any period of time; which is sorta why I proposed that other loadout, it has a better chance of being stable as it's all in series.

 

18 minutes ago, Terro said:

You put wires straight from the cameras to the lights?

Without a relay between cam to lights? Thought cams could only have 1 outgoing wire.

And literally, it's ALL in a single series:

Bank1 -> cam1 -> cam2 -> light -> light -> light -> light -> light -> light -> Bank2 -> Door -> Door -> Door -> Door -> Door -> Door

 

So, while you Can connect several things outgoing*, you don't want to in this case.

*at least from Relays and such, I'm not entirely sure about cams, but I assume so.

 

The first door takes 5W to work, so I think you'll need to hit 1 to 4W coming to Bank2. 5W seemed to randomly bug it out. As those lights are 5W each, you may need something else to hit the 1-4 gap.

Edited December 9, 2022 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Melange]

16 hours ago, theFlu said:

You can do vehicle-detection with at least cameras and trip wires, I haven't tried trigger plates but I would be surprised if not. For cams & wires it isn't even really different from walking detection, I haven't run into any vehicle-specific issues with either.

 

You may have been bugged.

Thanks. Its the second time I've posted my thoughts on the matter, but I've not tested anything as of late. I'll update my findings (perhaps with bird nest residue on my face) in a few days. But what I'm really after: Open the door for me only. Whilst I am in the driver seat. I haven' figured that scenario out