7dtd , Mount & blade and lack of story - my view about that and hope for future

[Matt115]

Well... 7DTD is fun game to play.  But lack of story and lore  hurt a lot. Well... i undestand this not such important because TFP want to make 7dtd as base for mods and play for fun. But damn... 7dtd have to be so great potential for lore - a lot of POI, RWG etc. So this could be a lot of writing on walls, notes ,environment story telling , maybe radio brodcasts? But why i wrote about M&B ? There was a empire but now there is few kingdom fighting each other - do what you want. Sound's familiar? In M&B bannerlord devs decided to give more focus on world building so maybe 7dtd universe could get too. But it's a little to 7dtd and someone can say that 7dtd2 will be moddable too so... I think make story focused spinoff could be best option. Why? Well 7dtd is game to just have fun and spend time nicesly. I undestand and i know some thing could make controversial too much in "main series" so this spin off - just "reused" main series mechanics but reduce number of player into 1 - 2. Bigger focus on story.  And in spin off situation there is no need to "play safe" - NZA is good example for that. 

So i hope there will be spin off focused about story in future. This could be good compromise to keep light tone of main series and darker spin off

[Telric]

As someone who is actively working on an RPG style story based mod, it is exceedingly difficult to make a storyline with an incomplete world and incomplete systems. Even today, I am backtracking stuff I finished years ago on it, to change and modify story bits to include stuff I recently created. For example, I recently created a dungeon for the very first area you'll go through.... However, the storyline is currently in the next area. So, to put that dungeon into the first area in a way that made some form of sense, I had to backtrack, completely change one of the NPC's backstories and quest text to reflect stuff for the new dungeon. Now, this is just for my mod. Imagine that on a full game that's not complete yet. That's why story comes after the full game and systems are in.

I'm not saying they shouldn't. It'd be interesting to see what story unfolds, but it's not as easy as it may seem...

[Roland]

Cart meet horse. He…um….has to be first so please back up a bit. Thanks. 

[SnowDog1942]

Story is a waste of dev time for a game with as much replayability as this game.  Its hard enough to sit thru story crap once, let alone every single time you play.   It goes directly against sandbox gameplay.  Id rather more end game like harder zombie types, more hard random quests, etc.  

[Rotor]

Yes, sandbox is a lost gameplay since Sony reworked SWG back in the day.

[Jinx_DG]

12 hours ago, Matt115 said:

But lack of story and lore  hurt a lot. Well... i undestand this not such important because TFP

.... want to finish the game mechanics first. 

 

Why are you posting about the game not having lore when I know that you know that it's being worked on and will come when the game is finished? I know you know this because I've seen you post about it. 

[Rotor]

2 hours ago, Jinx_DG said:

.... want to finish the game mechanics first. 

 

Why are you posting about the game not having lore when I know that you know that it's being worked on and will come when the game is finished? I know you know this because I've seen you post about it. 

 

I think Matt 115 is working on his thesis and therefore is generating forum content to pad his research paper.

 

I mean don't they have to be like 100 pages?  I hated that crap in highschool :), and there were no bbs or nntp to troll for content. 😀

[Ramethzer0]

12 hours ago, Roland said:

Cart meet horse. He…um….has to be first so please back up a bit. Thanks. 

But lookit all the places we could be going!

 

[Matt115]

10 hours ago, Telric said:

As someone who is actively working on an RPG style story based mod, it is exceedingly difficult to make a storyline with an incomplete world and incomplete systems. Even today, I am backtracking stuff I finished years ago on it, to change and modify story bits to include stuff I recently created. For example, I recently created a dungeon for the very first area you'll go through.... However, the storyline is currently in the next area. So, to put that dungeon into the first area in a way that made some form of sense, I had to backtrack, completely change one of the NPC's backstories and quest text to reflect stuff for the new dungeon. Now, this is just for my mod. Imagine that on a full game that's not complete yet. That's why story comes after the full game and systems are in.

I'm not saying they shouldn't. It'd be interesting to see what story unfolds, but it's not as easy as it may seem...

Well this depends how to want to make a story and lore. I will give you MC and fallout 3 and 4  as example.

In MC jukeboxes were added pretty early and disc are part of lore. I don't remember when everything was added ( long time ago) but mines were early too but still are part of lore.  This same thing with F4 - you can find for example old house with hanging skeleton, few bottles etc. So this example of envirtment  microstory tellting. But it can be used for lore too - Hitman "bunker room , l4d2 in hotel you can find CEDA room with evac center maps etc. The forest - tennis players, stone corpsesm hanging scientists bodies.

Well in 7dtd you can find corpses in POI but mostly (except few pois) looks like hm... put random corpses and barricades but without bigger context. I will give you example how this could works in 7dtd. typical home - corpse near door , few zombie inside and in last room two zombies . And in closet cheerleader corpse with piles and note " Jack if you read this... mom and dad became zombie and trying to break into my room... i have no other choice... i'm sorry". Or - military outpost with scientistc barrack with white board. And there could be writing like "Charlie Whisky base notice new type of infected, Delta Colorado reported new agility type of mutants before they were whip out... what the hell happened in X4?

 

11 minutes ago, Rotor said:

 

I think Matt 115 is working on his thesis and therefore is generating forum content to pad his research paper.

 

I mean don't they have to be like 100 pages?  I hated that crap in highschool :), and there were no bbs or nntp to troll for content. 😀

Nope. i'm making my master thesis  (2nd. stage of college ) . But i'm writing about  accountancy so don't worry. 

Well i'm writing this because 3 reasons - 1. I have idea for something new so i start topic - there is no need to write about new perks system all the time.  2. i'm not programmer so i will not writing why code X is not working good because this is not my stuff . 3.  I want to know what people thinking + maybe there will be interesting conclusion = maybe a more people want to see more lore, maybe want to see  expended 7dtd universe. And honestly ? another topic about dunno - bugs, crafting recepts etc can be temporary - there  is no hornets  so there is no point to make topic about how annoing they are

 

9 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Story is a waste of dev time for a game with as much replayability as this game.  Its hard enough to sit thru story crap once, let alone every single time you play.   It goes directly against sandbox gameplay.  Id rather more end game like harder zombie types, more hard random quests, etc.  

Well do you know that minecraft have complexed lore too?

1 hour ago, Jinx_DG said:

.... want to finish the game mechanics first. 

 

Why are you posting about the game not having lore when I know that you know that it's being worked on and will come when the game is finished? I know you know this because I've seen you post about it. 

As i wrote upstars - MC didn't was finished but first lore elements were added pretty early. This same thing with medieval dynasty, contagion etc

[Maharin]

I have two things to add to this thread:

 

and

 

[Laz Man]

7 hours ago, Matt115 said:

This same thing with F4 - you can find for example old house with hanging skeleton, few bottles etc.

 

So this thread boils back down to getting skeleton props added in game?  😅

 

Joking aside, there is plenty of environmental story telling in many POIs already.  

 

As far as a story is concerned, I am glad it was left for last as it would of grown old on players after playing through it numerous times due to the nature of 7d2d's gameplay loop.

 

I have seen many players pick up story rich Early Access games and not play through them so not to spoil the story.

 

 

[Matt115]

44 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

So this thread boils back down to getting skeleton props added in game?  😅

 

Joking aside, there is plenty of environmental story telling in many POIs already.  

 

As far as a story is concerned, I am glad it was left for last as it would of grown old on players after playing through it numerous times due to the nature of 7d2d's gameplay loop.

 

I have seen many players pick up story rich Early Access games and not play through them so not to spoil the story.

 

 

i wrote that's few of them and that's is okay and  i'm happy about. But in few cases - use few this same corpses in one houses and sometime unlogical looks too much radomly. i know - well corpses mean work but l4d2 is good example how to use it - ( l4d1 is old game so corpses looks terrible ) few this same police corpses in metro looks good because there is police cars nearby ,  near military hammer you can find body of soldiers , in  forest barefoot in casual outfit women with gun etc.  Well i know this would be a lot of work to change this and 99% of 7dtd players will don't care if this copreses are this same ( bear cave is good example - few this same upper halve of woman body near each other). Honestly about story... this depends - the forest is good example - new updated something change on map so everyone looking for change  making theories etc. Well i don't expect that 7DTD's  story will be like resident evil or the last of us but... have potential for that - i can complain about some design decisions ( like drons) but i see big potential in 7dtd - but.... maybe better option would be "alternative universe" spinoff more focused on story and gameplay that change main series - well some mechanics from main series can be  so can be reused right  without complaining - NZA is good example how to reused assets, mechanics and make orginal spinoff 

 

Quote

I have seen many players pick up story rich Early Access games and not play through them so not to spoil the story.

 

Well this is hard because some games have good story on begining but something is changing and make game just " So devs wanted to make something inconventional? shame that "suprise" change this game into parody". Well this thing makes even big companies like Valve. 

 

Spoiler

in HL Alyx you change hl2 ep 2 ending so.... now i lose interest how it be continue. Why? because it could be use everything and most things don't have sense anymore - so if Gman is so powerful maybe he can dunno teleport bomb into Combine planet. Ok gman was always powerfull but if he change time because why not it make him to powerfull.

 

So make good story and lore is hard - well not everyone can ask Martin for that right? But i still hope that TFP will decided to give a chance to lore and story in their next 7dtd game. 

As joke i can say i'm ready to help  with lore and i can wrote scenario for free , just please  add skeletons XD  🤪

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Matt115]

Update : New cod  standard edition cost 350 zł this is so much  as hell. While 7dtd cost 90 zł XD another + for 7dtd

Edited June 8, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Khyron]

IMHO, adding bits of story and lore throughout the world as the game gets developed would be fun. For example, we get the letter from the Duke and Noah's intro when we start a new game and do the tutorial. Finding a slip of paper in a trash can giving more lore about the Duke would be really interesting. It wouldn't require active story writing, wouldn't be about quests, but could flesh out the backstory of what happened in the world before we were dumped in the middle of Navezgane (Or whatever map we're on). Trader dialogue already reflects this a bit, with Jen mentioning now she can make her payment to the Duke when you complete a quest. What if in one of those nice hidey spots we find fun loot in there was a hastily-scribbled letter from a survivor hiding from the duke? Or what if there were scraps of old newspapers detailing how everything deteriorated to the point we reached already?

 

Crafting a story you move through is one thing, but adding bits of backstory and lore to the game world that are found at random would be significantly less of a time investment and would give the players who've reached endgame something to look for and collect...

 

And unlike an ongoing story, you wouldn't need to design tons of quests and NPC interactions and this and that, it's just random stuff added for fluff that can be put in loot tables to give the community some teasers and bits and pieces of fun info while they spend the bulk of their time working on gameplay systems.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Syphon583]

2 minutes ago, Khyron said:

IMHO, adding bits of story and lore throughout the world as the game gets developed would be fun. For example, we get the letter from the Duke and Noah's intro when we start a new game and do the tutorial. Finding a slip of paper in a trash can giving more lore about the Duke would be really interesting. It wouldn't require active story writing, wouldn't be about quests, but could flesh out the backstory of what happened in the world before we were dumped in the middle of Navezgane (Or whatever map we're on). Trader dialogue already reflects this a bit, with Jen mentioning now she can make her payment to the Duke when you complete a quest. What if in one of those nice hidey spots we find fun loot in there was a hastily-scribbled letter from a survivor hiding from the duke? Or what if there were scraps of old newspapers detailing how everything deteriorated to the point we reached already?

 

Crafting a story you move through is one thing, but adding bits of backstory and lore to the game world that are found at random would be significantly less of a time investment and would give the players who've reached endgame something to look for and collect...

 

And unlike an ongoing story, you wouldn't need to design tons of quests and NPC interactions and this and that, it's just random stuff added for fluff that can be put in loot tables to give the community some teasers and bits and pieces of fun info while they spend the bulk of their time working on gameplay systems.

 

Just my 2 cents.

I love this idea, and you're right, it should not be very hard to implement (in terms of coding it. Writing it could be a whole different story depending on how deep they want to take it). Of course, some amount of RNG would have to be involved, as I wouldn't want to discover the same note in the same location, or on the same quest every single playthrough. I also wouldn't mind seeing these backstory bits appear out of order, so to speak. Would be really fun to piece together past events on your own as you find more and more notes.

[Khyron]

Even the writing could be 'outsourced' a bit to the community. A bit of a bonus for the early access folks.

 

It's simple - set up a forum, have players write up a little story of one of their fun experiences. Take the ones that are the most impactful or best written and turn them into in-game events that happened 'in the past' and make it part of a tattered old journal or scrap of a diary or something like that. Take the tale of a survivor hiding from zeds in a house only to accidentally make too much noise and lure them in and turn it into backstory and lore.

 

Maybe explain the irradiated zombies as a person in a nuke plant who deliberately causes a meltdown to try to kill 'em off only it backfired and made 'em worse. Have someone write a story in a letter about a brother who's planning to take revenge on the Duke for killing a family member or something.

 

Little things like that can flesh out the world so much, without substantially changing the overarching story. A note you find on a zombie talking about how he tried to lock himself away in a closet to protect his family adds flavor without actually committing to any story beats you have to worry about later. No plot holes or anything.

 

Later on it could even be incorporated into a new kind of quest. "Find out what happened to so-and-so", you travel to a POI and search around until you find the lore object the trader wants.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Khyron (see edit history)