A19 Diary Discussions

[MechanicalLens]

10 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

Yeah, I do invest a point in master chef for coffee, I'm talking about blackstrap not just normal coffee. Normal Coffee isn't really enough for mining. Basically to mine early and mid game, you need fairly high to maxed out sex rex, good food, and black strap. Which is quite an investment for something that really isn't even important or very strong atm, as like you said, you basically never have to actually craft bullets.

 

The only thing I even mine is shale and iron, and even that is only because I eat iron like mad for Junk Turrets and because you have to mine shale basically 1 time per playthrough to have infinite gas. Honestly though this time, I've not even gone shale mining, just wrenching cars has kept me at well over 10K gas without ever boiling down shale a single time and with me using a motorcycle + Auger

That's fair, not everyone is a hardcore miner from the get-go. I always go deep into the mining perks as soon as possible, if not maxing them outright, almost treating them like a Band-Aid by ripping it off and getting it over and done with, i.e. spending my points on nothing but Sex Rex, Miner 69er, and Mother Lode until they are nearly maxed out. After that I cherry pick my points elsewhere.

 

That's true, but I've rarely encountered the problem where I run out of coffee. Drinking 3 or 4 of them is more than enough for a night's session of mining stone or iron.

 

Anywho, when I finally get around to convincing myself to play beyond day 2 or day 4, I plan on my next long-term world to have the following restrictions: Survivalist difficulty from the start, no crafting ammo (or at least until I need to, if that time ever comes), no buying ammo or ammo components from traders or receiving ammo quest rewards, and trying not to spend 99% of my free time looting. The only thing holding me back is 9 times out of 10 I am in the mood for roleplaying as a Terminator-esque action hero, and 1 times out of 10 I can settle down, get immersed, and enjoy the game more. Perhaps I should work on getting more into the latter habit.

 

The only reason I mine iron is because I prefer having several thousand crafted at any given time, and I use the rest for steel upgrades. That and I don't like having my forges being idle.

Edited October 22, 2020 by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

Is this a bug or a new feature in the game?

 

 

[meganoth]

11 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

Yeah, I do invest a point in master chef for coffee, I'm talking about blackstrap not just normal coffee. Normal Coffee isn't really enough for mining. Basically to mine early and mid game, you need fairly high to maxed out sex rex, good food, and black strap. Which is quite an investment for something that really isn't even important or very strong atm, as like you said, you basically never have to actually craft bullets.

 

The only thing I even mine is shale and iron, and even that is only because I eat iron like mad for Junk Turrets and because you have to mine shale basically 1 time per playthrough to have infinite gas. Honestly though this time, I've not even gone shale mining, just wrenching cars has kept me at well over 10K gas without ever boiling down shale a single time and with me using a motorcycle + Auger

Current balance is for early game to not have any iron or steel tools. Why would you need blackstrap if you only have a stone axe?

 

In mid game you just need sexrex 2 and normal coffee (which is nicely doable for everyone without specializing in strength) to hack away for minutes before your stamina runs out. If you absolutely can't have that (some people think their inflexibility is OCD), go a little deeper and get sexrex 3.

 

Unless you are really specializing in strength, don't use steel tools.

[Danidas]

25 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Current balance is for early game to not have any iron or steel tools. Why would you need blackstrap if you only have a stone axe?

 

In mid game you just need sexrex 2 and normal coffee (which is nicely doable for everyone without specializing in strength) to hack away for minutes before your stamina runs out. If you absolutely can't have that (some people think their inflexibility is OCD), go a little deeper and get sexrex 3.

 

Unless you are really specializing in strength, don't use steel tools.

Unfortunately a large amount of players believe that if they cannot just hold the mouse button down while looking at rock and endless mine its simply unplayable. Hence all the players moaning about every second they aren't mining as if it's the end of the world. Aka how dare the game interrupt my quest for perfect efficiency as every second must be life or death.

 

Which is why we get so many people complaining about stamina use and going crazy for getting the Auger ASAP.

[MechanicalLens]

 Game-changing question here. Do zombie vultures in 7D2D lay eggs? 🤔 Are those eggs found in the birds nests on the ground? 🤨 Are we cooking up their children? 😏 Poaching, scrambling, boiling, and spreading them on toast perhaps? 😊

 

Are we eating rotten zombified eggs? 😶 Bluh! 🤮

[MechanicalLens]

3 minutes ago, Danidas said:

Unfortunately a large amount of players believe that if they cannot just hold the mouse button down while looking at rock and endless mine its simply unplayable. Hence all the players moaning about every second they aren't mining as if it's the end of the world. Aka how dare the game interrupt my quest for perfect efficiency as every second must be life or death.

 

Which is why we get so many people complaining about stamina use and going crazy for getting the Auger ASAP.

Not that I agree with this side of the argument, but you could say that for every moment you're waiting for stamina to return, you're not exactly playing the game.

 

Or at least that's the flip argument I hear with every waking moment.

[Danidas]

7 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Not that I agree with this side of the argument, but you could say that for every moment you're waiting for stamina to return, you're not exactly playing the game.

 

Or at least that's the flip argument I hear with every waking moment.

I admit that I over dramatized it but that is the general gist of it. As every second your not doing something you might as well not be playing.

[MechanicalLens]

1 minute ago, Danidas said:

I admit that I over dramatized it but that is the general gist of it. As every second your not doing something you might as well not be playing.

Very true. Again, was just playing Devil's Advocate, even though the counterargument itself is ridiculous.

Edited October 22, 2020 by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

[Kalen]

22 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Very true. Again, was just playing Devil's Advocate, even though the counterargument itself is ridiculous.

I don't think it is ridiculous.   I think of it as what does having to sit around waiting for stamina to fill add to the game?   Not much, IMO.   I would much rather they lower the amount of resources you get per block but allow you to constantly (or near constantly) mine.   So that the end result is that you get the same amount of resources without having the constant pauses.

[Danidas]

40 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 Game-changing question here. Do zombie vultures in 7D2D lay eggs? 🤔 Are those eggs found in the birds nests on the ground? 🤨 Are we cooking up their children? 😏 Poaching, scrambling, boiling, and spreading them on toast perhaps? 😊

 

Are we eating rotten zombified eggs? 😶 Bluh! 🤮

The chickens wondering around everywhere want a word with you......

[MechanicalLens]

1 minute ago, Kalen said:

I don't think it is ridiculous.   I think of it as what does having to sit around waiting for stamina to fill add to the game?   Not much, IMO.   I would much rather they lower the amount of resources you get per block but allow you to constantly (or near constantly) mine.   So that the end result is that you get the same amount of resources without having the constant pauses.

On the other hand, waiting for your meals to cook, items to scrap, stamina to regen while running or swinging a melee weapon, they're all in the same boat here. Is waiting around fun? No, but balance takes priority over such things.

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, Danidas said:

The chickens wondering around everywhere want a word with you......

Chickens don't lay eggs. Back to elementary school with you.

[Kalen]

6 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

On the other hand, waiting for your meals to cook, items to scrap, stamina to regen while running or swinging a melee weapon, they're all in the same boat here. Is waiting around fun? No, but balance takes priority over such things.

You can do other things while crafting or scrapping.   I also believe that stamina drain is way too high for running and melee, but thats a different argument.    

 

But yes, balance takes priority which is why I suggested lowering the yield.  So the net result is the same.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Kalen (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

2 minutes ago, Kalen said:

You can do other things while crafting or scrapping.   I also believe that stamina drain is way to high for running and melee, but thats a different argument.    

 

But yes, balance takes priority which is why I suggested lowering the yield.  So the net result is the same.

I personally think melee stamina costs are fine the way they are. Besides, we have the clubs which by end-game provide infinite stamina recovery through power attacks. As for sprinting, I don't see this being an issue once you get past the bicycle phase. (And even then, tap W while sprinting on your bike and you'll only lose stamina while turning.)

 

A subjective problem (or lack thereof) with varying solutions, balanced like all things should be.

[Kalen]

2 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

I personally think melee stamina costs are fine the way they are. Besides, we have the clubs which by end-game provide infinite stamina recovery through power attacks. As for sprinting, I don't see this being an issue once you get past the bicycle phase. (And even then, tap W while sprinting on your bike and you'll only lose stamina while turning.)

 

A subjective problem (or lack thereof) with varying solutions, balanced like all things should be.

Its only really a problem early game.... but early game its a really bad problem, IMO.

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, Kalen said:

Its only really a problem early game.... but early game its a really bad problem, IMO.

True, but who needs a mega fort by day 7 or even day 14 anyway? You could simply make a staircase that connects to a walkway with iron bars separating you from the zombies, and you'll do fine perhaps up until day 21 at best.

Besides, don't get too comfortable where you are at @Kalen TFP have said on multiple occasions that we'll certainly be getting a pretty heavy stamina loss penalty for using motor tools in the future.

[Adam the Waster]

54 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 Game-changing question here. Do zombie vultures in 7D2D lay eggs? 🤔 Are those eggs found in the birds nests on the ground? 🤨 Are we cooking up their children? 😏 Poaching, scrambling, boiling, and spreading them on toast perhaps? 😊

 

Are we eating rotten zombified eggs? 😶 Bluh! 🤮

Why can't we Gut chickens and Vultures for their eggs!

 

 

nobody got time to wait for them to lay eggs, Just take them out!

 

It would solve many peoples complaints about eggs being rare, and it would give a reason to hunt chicken.  Problem Solved.

[Kalen]

6 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

True, but who needs a mega fort by day 7 or even day 14 anyway? You could simply make a staircase that connects to a walkway with iron bars separating you from the zombies, and you'll do fine perhaps up until day 21 at best.

Besides, don't get too comfortable where you are at @Kalen TFP have said on multiple occasions that we'll certainly be getting a pretty heavy stamina loss penalty for using motor tools in the future.

hah, well.... about early game I was only replying to you about running and melee.   I think stamina drain for mining is almost always a problem.   Having to constantly pause and wait for stamina to refill while mining doesn't make good gameplay, IMO.   It's more understandable, to me, to have to regen stamina after running or melee as long as the drain isn't too severe (which, early game, I think it is)

 

Motorized tools should have drain.... anyone thats used one in RL knows that

 

[MechanicalLens]

21 minutes ago, Kalen said:

hah, well.... about early game I was only replying to you about running and melee.   I think stamina drain for mining is almost always a problem.   Having to constantly pause and wait for stamina to refill while mining doesn't make good gameplay, IMO.   It's more understandable, to me, to have to regen stamina after running or melee as long as the drain isn't too severe (which, early game, I think it is)

 

Motorized tools should have drain.... anyone thats used one in RL knows that

 

No doubt about it, especially in 7 Days. Our characters can't run for more than 30 meters before puffing and wheezing like they need an oxygen tank attached to their back.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Danidas said:

I admit that I over dramatized it but that is the general gist of it. As every second your not doing something you might as well not be playing.

 All the looters must be throwing pitchforks at TFP because there is always a delay when opening a box. We are sooo not playing the game all the time we loot a kitchen.

 

31 minutes ago, Kalen said:

You can do other things while crafting or scrapping.   I also believe that stamina drain is way too high for running and melee, but thats a different argument.    

 

But yes, balance takes priority which is why I suggested lowering the yield.  So the net result is the same.

 

Lowering yield is exactly what you would be doing if you were using the lower-tier tool that fits your stamina regen. With a stone axe your yield may not be great but you can easily mine without pause.

 

Naturally as a player you know from previous sessions how it feels to stomp through earth with a steel axe and then a stone axe feels just whimpy and inadequate.

 

 

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

Chickens don't lay eggs. Back to elementary school with you.

Not my native language, but I thought "chicken" is the zoological term for the whole race, including (female) hens! Is that wrong?

Edited October 22, 2020 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Not my native language, but I thought "chicken" is the zoological term for the whole race, including (female) hens! Is that wrong?

Gallus gallus domesticus
AKA CHICKEN!

A male is a rooster
and a Female is a Hen

Edited October 22, 2020 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Not my native language, but I thought "chicken" is the zoological term for the whole race, including (female) hens! Is that wrong?

Sort of true. But from now on, let it be known that chickens give birth to live young. Let me win this argument. Let me have that much. 😛

It's honestly pretty simple. Chickens don't lay eggs, but vultures do. Snakes lay eggs, but elephants don't. Most humans don't lay eggs, but Roland does. Capiche?

[meganoth]

20 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Sort of true. But from now on, let it be known that chickens give birth to live young. Let me win this argument. Let me have that much. 😛

It's honestly pretty simple. Chickens don't lay eggs, but vultures do. Snakes lay eggs, but elephants don't. Most humans don't lay eggs, but Roland does. Capiche?

I think you are completely right. Chickens are birthed in hot oil, live in card board boxes and have a crust. They can't lay eggs. But you can order an egg salad with the chicken, though the eggs were never touched by that chicken in any way. Chickens also can't fly, otherwise we would call them vultures.

 

[MechanicalLens]

3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I think you are completely right. Chickens are birthed in hot oil, live in card board boxes and have a crust. They can't lay eggs. But you can order an egg salad with the chicken, though the eggs were never touched by that chicken in any way. Chickens also can't fly, otherwise we would call them vultures.

 

Oops, my bad. Chickens can lay eggs after all. I was mistaking them for the majestic buffalo chicken.