Intelligence Woes.

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

Intelligence is my favourite stat to hate. I love that it opens up the crafting doors, but man I can't stand how little it gives back. 

I like that specializing into a weapon lets you make a better one, that makes some sense to me. I don't like that you have to go so deep that you can't afford the other means of making it (crafting bench, forge, crucible) until you spec into a totally different stat. It becomes a balancing game, and they've done a fair job with the schematics and books. The current loot system needs some tweaking, but I can't put my finger on a good way of doing it so I bite my tongue. I think as you go into a specific field the tool tables should be a bit more available to balance the inability to make them yourself. That depends on days spent, in my opinion, because you can strike some good loot early and that'd shift the game. 

I am an intel based support on my multiplayer gig and it's because I can make ammo, vehicles and gas. As well as meds. I can't make good weapons though, which we need now that we're four waves deep and have enough weapon mods to make a difference. None of us can craft the weapons we use but me, and I'm too low on the tech tree to help even though I'm at 7-8 intelligence. I took the hard road because I know where to find the good loot, and I buy the stuff I can't make because I work my eco well. They're all new and I am half gaming the gamestage and half showing them the ropes. They're struggling because they're stat focused and want higher health or stamina. 

It's a tough balance and a lot is in the mix, and I don't envy the devs' fight to make it work. I play a lot of solo and I enjoy the game as it's presented because I know it won't always be ideal. I adapt to the changes. The struggle is finding a balance of fun versus fun to win. I think a lot of people I see gripe just wanna win. 

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

... I can't make good weapons though, which we need now that we're four waves deep and have enough weapon mods to make a difference. None of us can craft the weapons we use but me, and I'm too low on the tech tree to help even though I'm at 7-8 intelligence. ...

I don't understand this. Crafting a good weapon is not the int players task but the users task himself (except for guns in stone age but only because stone age guns are still missing until A20). If one of the other players uses a spear for example, why don't you give him a hint to put points into spears and craft his spears himself?

 

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

I don't understand this. Crafting a good weapon is not the int players task but the users task himself (except for guns in stone age but only because stone age guns are still missing until A20). If one of the other players uses a spear for example, why don't you give him a hint to put points into spears and craft his spears himself?

 

Like I mentioned, they're more worried about things like cardio and fast healing. They're trying to somehow increase their base stats (health and stamina) and I've explained they can't, but... They spend their points however they choose. Fortunately, one person has been catching on and listening now that we're on wave four and they have some more hours behind them.

[iamnuff]

12 hours ago, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

Like I mentioned, they're more worried about things like cardio and fast healing. They're trying to somehow increase their base stats (health and stamina) and I've explained they can't, but... They spend their points however they choose. Fortunately, one person has been catching on and listening now that we're on wave four and they have some more hours behind them.

 

"If you put points in into your weapon skill, the weapon will do more damage and swing/reload faster. So also let you make better versions of the weapons you want. These are your most important stats. Stuff like Cardio can come after, as a quality of life perk." 

Then let them live or die by their own choices. 

 

If you're four waves in and nobody has invested into using any kind of weapon yet, then they probably deserve to all wipe. Especially if you've been explicitly telling when that they need to. 

[alanea]

17 hours ago, iamnuff said:

 

"If you put points in into your weapon skill, the weapon will do more damage and swing/reload faster. So also let you make better versions of the weapons you want. These are your most important stats. Stuff like Cardio can come after, as a quality of life perk." 

Then let them live or die by their own choices. 

 

If you're four waves in and nobody has invested into using any kind of weapon yet, then they probably deserve to all wipe. Especially if you've been explicitly telling when that they need to. 

 nah surviving is nob igge even on warrior +  but its  very good perk

 

quality is actually bonus that was added to weapon perk making it basically free for weapon of choice

[Ramethzer0]

On 9/24/2020 at 2:26 AM, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

Intelligence is my favourite stat to hate. I love that it opens up the crafting doors, but man I can't stand how little it gives back.

At max perk turret syndrome, try two tier 6 junk turrets with AP turret ammo, drum clips, and extended barrel mods.  Sit back and /beer.

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

21 minutes ago, Ramethzer0 said:

At max perk turret syndrome, try two tier 6 junk turrets with AP turret ammo, drum clips, and extended barrel mods.  Sit back and /beer.

When the turrets first got implemented I had a lot of fun with them. 

[alanea]

On 9/26/2020 at 8:22 PM, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

When the turrets first got implemented I had a lot of fun with them. 

yeah  it  works for first 35 days ( not rly as junk turret doesnt drop in stone age)

after  that  they cant kill single demolisher withou triggering him

[meganoth]

13 hours ago, alanea said:

yeah  it  works for first 35 days ( not rly as junk turret doesnt drop in stone age)

after  that  they cant kill single demolisher withou triggering him

The solution to this might be to set up the turrets as far away as possible from your horde base. If they trigger a demo far from the base his explosion will just make a dent in the ground, if they let him pass, they will put the rest of their ammo into his backside. You can increase the operation range by walkways going away from your POI. This also makes the turrets very controllable as they will only shoot if you are on such a walkway. You can also set up your turrets to only shoot at demos backs by only allowing them to shoot in the direction of your base.

 

I couldn't test this yet as my co-op players tend to vote for a restart quite early in the game and I haven't played INT lately, but theoretically it sounds workable.

 

[alanea]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

The solution to this might be to set up the turrets as far away as possible from your horde base. If they trigger a demo far from the base his explosion will just make a dent in the ground, if they let him pass, they will put the rest of their ammo into his backside. You can increase the operation range by walkways going away from your POI. This also makes the turrets very controllable as they will only shoot if you are on such a walkway. You can also set up your turrets to only shoot at demos backs by only allowing them to shoot in the direction of your base.

 

I couldn't test this yet as my co-op players tend to vote for a restart quite early in the game and I haven't played INT lately, but theoretically it sounds workable.

 

still .. its quite weakness and mass use of junk turretsisnt too effectivethey are far more usefull as  tool for pois btw smg / shotgun turrets cant trigger demolisher if they shot from behind .. junk likely follow this trend

 

overall  you dont want demos to explode ( holes/no xp/no  loot bag)

[Ramethzer0]

22 hours ago, alanea said:

yeah  it  works for first 35 days ( not rly as junk turret doesnt drop in stone age)

after  that  they cant kill single demolisher withou triggering him

create spaces in your horde base where it won't matter much if they blow up.  Dump chute/pit style horde bases means demos are not even remotely a threat.

 

You can also have redundant pillars and other support structure in case they go off in some place important.

In our MP base, we have a Help Desk style of base.  Modified killing corridor design, only no walls except on the inside.  There is a way to create a bottle neck with shaped frames to allow a person to go melee or ranged.  No bars needed.  Ramps and wedges are both used regular and inverted.

The downside is that the inside is completely protected from birds, but the outside isn't.  Some of us like to fight on the roof while the melee peeps are inside the help desk area.

 

There are three raised platforms, so if one gets blown up, the other two are just fine.  You can also gird your superstructures with plates.

Id rather kill a demo quickly, and loose some construction mats than to let it get into the heart of the base structure.

[Tehnomaag]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:00 PM, Ramethzer0 said:

At max perk turret syndrome, try two tier 6 junk turrets with AP turret ammo, drum clips, and extended barrel mods.  Sit back and /beer.

Only if RNGJesus blesses thou. 

It is also possible to sit at the level where you could do a Q5 turrets but not to have enough parts to do even one. I have experienced that when going into int occasionally. Rare, but can happen. Or a random location eats your junk turret, by just making it vanish when you place it and then you need to find a new one or enough turret parts to do a new one, while the gamestage is high enough to be relatively helpless without your turret. 

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, Tehnomaag said:

Only if RNGJesus blesses thou. 

It is also possible to sit at the level where you could do a Q5 turrets but not to have enough parts to do even one. I have experienced that when going into int occasionally. Rare, but can happen. Or a random location eats your junk turret, by just making it vanish when you place it and then you need to find a new one or enough turret parts to do a new one, while the gamestage is high enough to be relatively helpless without your turret. 

Generally yes, but

 

* The game won't be balanced for bugs. Personally frustrating, but nobody said EA is without drawbacks. If you have a SP game or know the server admin you simply can get a replacement from creative mode. 

 

* On horde night at least melee turrets are an adequate replacement if you set them up correctly and generally I don't have any problem finding a few of them in the iron age.

 

 

 

[SouthernMike]

I think what they could do for the INT tree is add the crossbow to it as crossbows are actually more complicated than bows when crafting ( especially the tension driven trigger system ) and then adding a taser or just a normal button as a low tier melee weapon 

2 minutes ago, SouthernMike said:

I think what they could do for the INT tree is add the crossbow to it as crossbows are actually more complicated than bows when crafting ( especially the tension driven trigger system ) and then adding a taser or just a normal button as a low tier melee weapon 

Well a giant manned ballista that shoots spear sized projectiles or spears does sound cool 

[Jenshae]

The shock arrow could be quite nice as an Intelligence perk. Gives you time to reload, makes you valuable to a team in early game when pretty much all of you are using bows.
 

[geengaween]

On 9/16/2020 at 2:55 AM, iamnuff said:

We need an entry-level weapon in electrocutioner, otherwise the entire skill-tree isn't useable until the midgame

 

 

 

I think the stun baton should be the entry level weapon for intelligence, but increase the range and lower the attack speed. Mid tier should be a gun that shoots saw blades. High tier should maybe be some kind of microwave gun with an invisible beam that lights zombies on fire. End tier should be a rail gun that shoots spent uranium rods. Keep the scrappy made-from-garbage aesthetic so it doesn't look too unbelievable.

 

Keep the sciencey theme but there's no reason why intelligence should be exclusively electricity. It would be better if it was more for status effects.

On 9/16/2020 at 2:55 AM, iamnuff said:

 

 

 

 

 

[iamnuff]

On 9/29/2020 at 2:06 PM, meganoth said:

* On horde night at least melee turrets are an adequate replacement if you set them up correctly and generally I don't have any problem finding a few of them in the iron age.

Bit slow to reply to this one, but I find Melee turrets completely inadequate for any purpose. 

 

If you build your base to have one entry through a narrow corridor, it could push people back, but it attacks so slowly that you'd probably be better off with multiple layers of ablative iron bars. The melee turret feels really cool to use (and can send other players flying, even with friendly fire off) bu it attacks too slowly, only hits one target at a time and doesn't do meaningful damage. 

It can't hold off a whole horde, and it can't kill individual zombies. 

 

It can knock a zombie down over and over, but unless you're fighting a single really powerful zombie, that's not really very useful compared to the ability to just kill it, which even a fireaxe can do better. 

 

I like the idea of a 'shove trap' that throws people into spikes or spinning blades, but this one just doesn't have the range. Both on the attack itself, or on how far it throws enemies. 

[BFT2020]

14 minutes ago, iamnuff said:

Bit slow to reply to this one, but I find Melee turrets completely inadequate for any purpose. 

It really depends on your base design and playstyle, but I have found the sledge turrets to be highly effective with the right design, especially with early hordes.  If I get lucky and find one before my first horde, I make sure to incorporate it into my design.

 

Yes, they can't effectively kill zombies and they can't stop a horde, but I don't expect them to do that.  The purpose I set aside for them is to thin out the hordes / control the chokepoint.  This allows me to hit the zombies with either knife attacks without getting overwhelmed by numbers and not allowing them to damage any restrictions I put in place.

[meganoth]

20 minutes ago, iamnuff said:

Bit slow to reply to this one, but I find Melee turrets completely inadequate for any purpose. 

 

If you build your base to have one entry through a narrow corridor, it could push people back, but it attacks so slowly that you'd probably be better off with multiple layers of ablative iron bars. The melee turret feels really cool to use (and can send other players flying, even with friendly fire off) bu it attacks too slowly, only hits one target at a time and doesn't do meaningful damage. 

It can't hold off a whole horde, and it can't kill individual zombies. 

 

It can knock a zombie down over and over, but unless you're fighting a single really powerful zombie, that's not really very useful compared to the ability to just kill it, which even a fireaxe can do better. 

 

I like the idea of a 'shove trap' that throws people into spikes or spinning blades, but this one just doesn't have the range. Both on the attack itself, or on how far it throws enemies. 

I have used the melee turret with expectional results in horde nights. Just have a narrow ledge that ends on a door (or even a concrete block) to your melee or shooting room and have that guarded by the turret and below a deep pit. with a steep exit path.

 

The zombies might get a few hits on the door or blocks (repair them from time to time), but since the access is narrow as well, they can't growd there. And the turret throws off zombies one by one. The low damage of the turret is augmented by the fall damage. Lastly you are there as a further damage provider and the deep pit can also be setup with traps.

 

Even worse on a MP server where say 4 people each have a turret (all unperked) standing along that high ledge and most zombies don't even reach the door.