Brass smelting rate changed?

[OutlawStar]

It has come to my attention now that the cost of bullets casings has been raised from 2 to 6 brass, and the junk brass items in the game have had their values adjusted accordingly (however i noticed the brass radiators only give 41 casings worth of brass instead of the old 50). These changes don't seem to be any issue with the exception of the rate at which brass is smelted. The forge appears to smelt brass at the same rate it used to. This means that the forge is much slower at smelting for bullets casings now.

 

Was this intended?

 

[Kyonshi]

I know that the rate of brass smelted dukes give has been adjusted in A18. Once you get ridiculous amounts of coins and that you bought everything you need or dont have to, since you found enough loot for years, you can smelt them and produce insane amounts of casings. So probably that the Pimps got aware of that and raised the cost once again? I wouldnt be surprised.

[Kirtonos]

Brass is certainly the gate keeper to bullet production. Has been for awhile now. It seems so odd to me that I can spend a single day mining coal, nitrate, and lead to be set for weeks in terms of gunpowder and bullet tips/buckshot but I am constantly wrenching cars, air conditioners, radiators, and desk lamps for brass. Then eventually destroying sinks and doors for more brass. Every quest POI I go to, I pre-game by clearing out every area that has the potential to drop brass before kicking the quest off.  Ultimately, I end up putting stacks of dukes in the forge with the excess after buying every brass item and ammo stack that the traders sell because I've harvested every car within 2km radius. 

So, to hear that radiators give 9 less casings when they are the primary source of brass is a warning sign of an imbalance in resource economy. 

[gurutar]

35 minutes ago, Kirtonos said:

Brass is certainly the gate keeper to bullet production. Has been for awhile now. It seems so odd to me that I can spend a single day mining coal, nitrate, and lead to be set for weeks in terms of gunpowder and bullet tips/buckshot but I am constantly wrenching cars, air conditioners, radiators, and desk lamps for brass. Then eventually destroying sinks and doors for more brass. Every quest POI I go to, I pre-game by clearing out every area that has the potential to drop brass before kicking the quest off.  Ultimately, I end up putting stacks of dukes in the forge with the excess after buying every brass item and ammo stack that the traders sell because I've harvested every car within 2km radius. 

So, to hear that radiators give 9 less casings when they are the primary source of brass is a warning sign of an imbalance in resource economy. 

the radiating heaters in some kinds of houses break down to brass radiators. if you find a house with them, the house usually contains about 6-8 of them. i'm always flush with brass because of this

[Boidster]

We modded radiators into refrigerators to help a bit, though we've found that many of the Compopack POIs have many, many air conditioners on them. That has kind of made the refrigerators superfluous. I still wrench 'em of course. 🙂

[JCrook1028]

The trash is carrying tons of brass in A19 as well.

[Kirtonos]

3 hours ago, gurutar said:

the radiating heaters in some kinds of houses break down to brass radiators. if you find a house with them, the house usually contains about 6-8 of them. i'm always flush with brass because of this

Yeah, I mentioned radiators in my initial breakdown of things I constantly wrench. Those help out as a source but it still isn't enough.

When I can get 17k gunpowder and lead in a day compared to maybe 3k brass in a day through the course of all my wrenching, that's an imbalance. 

[Kyonshi]

26 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

The trash is carrying tons of brass in A19 as well.

Yep. They counter-balanced the cost of casing forging by adding way much more of "scrap" brass in trash and containers. You cant unnotice this, its insane. I think at day 5-6 in my first A19 game, i had racked up about 4000 units of them!

[Teacyn]

They definitely seem to have made casings even more expensive, when they were already the massive bottleneck. You go through a Lead vein in literally like, an entire in-game month of nonstop gun usage, but it takes a single horde night to use up a week's worth of brass looting. It's insane. If it's any consolation I think they increased the stack sizes of the random brass you find in things like trash, but still jeez.

[FA_Q2]

I honestly had not noticed because I am flushed with ammo in 19.  There is so damn much ammo lying around I have yet to make a single bullet on day 60.  

[Kirtonos]

16 hours ago, FA_Q2 said:

I honestly had not noticed because I am flushed with ammo in 19.  There is so damn much ammo lying around I have yet to make a single bullet on day 60.  

Are you playing solo or with a group?

If I was solo, I'd be fine. The imbalance would still be there but there is only one sink in my pool of brass resources. As soon as you add one other person, you've drastically increased the sinks while the faucets have stayed relatively fixed. The only way the faucets increase is if the other people are also foraging as much brass as you are or more. Given the roles that most group dynamics form around, typically they are not salvaging as they are doing other roles like cooking/planting. Perks make it inefficient to spread the salvaging workload much like mining. 

[Boidster]

21 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

Yep. They counter-balanced the cost of casing forging by adding way much more of "scrap" brass in trash and containers.

"Well, honey, the zombie apocalypse is here. Time to throw out all those doorknobs and candlesticks we were saving."

[seagas]

I'm still baffled as to why we can't pick our spent brass. Maybe a chance of finding some where you were fring from, especially during horde night where you're practically surrounded by it.

 

[Boidster]

53 minutes ago, seagas said:

I'm still baffled as to why we can't pick our spent brass. Maybe a chance of finding some where you were fring from, especially during horde night where you're practically surrounded by it.

If I had to guess it's because every dropped object is an entity. Fire your gun 500 times and >poof< create 250 (50% chance of recoverable brass) entities. If you have ever dropped 5 or 6 things from inventory all at once, you've seen how the little brown dropped-item bags will start to stack up. Multiply by hundreds and just imagine...

 

Edit to add: that is not to say there aren't other possible ways to simulate recovering spent casings, but all of them risk running into the "muh realisms!" argument. So to expand on my guess, I'd also say that TFP wants brass to be a critical resource which players need to acquire throughout the game. It might still need some balance, but I dunno if they'll ever get to recycling casings, as realistic as that might be.

[Kyonshi]

11 minutes ago, Boidster said:

If I had to guess it's because every dropped object is an entity. Fire your gun 500 times and >poof< create 250 (50% chance of recoverable brass) entities. If you have ever dropped 5 or 6 things from inventory all at once, you've seen how the little brown dropped-item bags will start to stack up. Multiply by hundreds and just imagine...

Hahahaha, imagine a multiplayer horde with 5 players and all the bags they would generate. So much lag, you just warp back in time 😆

[FA_Q2]

12 hours ago, Kirtonos said:

Are you playing solo or with a group?

If I was solo, I'd be fine. The imbalance would still be there but there is only one sink in my pool of brass resources. As soon as you add one other person, you've drastically increased the sinks while the faucets have stayed relatively fixed. The only way the faucets increase is if the other people are also foraging as much brass as you are or more. Given the roles that most group dynamics form around, typically they are not salvaging as they are doing other roles like cooking/planting. Perks make it inefficient to spread the salvaging workload much like mining. 

Single.  Groups (unless in PVP) should be in a MUCH better situation.  It is far easier to take a building without spending a single round the more of you there are.  Zeds are asininely simple when I play in a group and clearing a quest happens a LOT faster.

 

Of course, there are those teamates that don't seem to know what a melee attack is and think everything should be killed with a gun.  When teamed with one of those guys you may have a problem.

 

The number of sinks around though is not an issue as I said I have not crafted a single bullet.  I have a chest with over 1k rounds each of 5.56, 9mm and shells.  It is unlikely if I will ever run through any of them even using my shotgun turrets for the vultures on my base.

 

My play style does not cost me a whole lot of rounds   Oddly enough, I have not had to craft a single arrow this game either.  Iron arrows are REALLY common drops now.  First time I have not needed to craft arrows.  I think that the drop rate for all types of ammo are way over the top atm.  

[Teacyn]

I also have not crafted a single arrow/bolt outside of like 20 stone arrows, though once I find a crucible I will likely start crafting steel ones.

[Kirtonos]

On 7/15/2020 at 10:58 PM, FA_Q2 said:

Single.  Groups (unless in PVP) should be in a MUCH better situation.  It is far easier to take a building without spending a single round the more of you there are.  Zeds are asininely simple when I play in a group and clearing a quest happens a LOT faster.

 

Of course, there are those teamates that don't seem to know what a melee attack is and think everything should be killed with a gun.  When teamed with one of those guys you may have a problem.

 

The number of sinks around though is not an issue as I said I have not crafted a single bullet.  I have a chest with over 1k rounds each of 5.56, 9mm and shells.  It is unlikely if I will ever run through any of them even using my shotgun turrets for the vultures on my base.

 

My play style does not cost me a whole lot of rounds   Oddly enough, I have not had to craft a single arrow this game either.  Iron arrows are REALLY common drops now.  First time I have not needed to craft arrows.  I think that the drop rate for all types of ammo are way over the top atm.  

We have horde nights turned up to 11 for spawns so we go through 1.5k to 3k+ each of ammo. Also means that melee-centric horde base design is out as well since we don't use pathing cheese. In the past, I was more of a melee person. Now with the Blunderbuss being pretty decent and the enrage on damage (since A18), I've moved more towards guns. One shot, one kill means no surging zombie that connects from 10m away even though they are swinging in the air. 

[FA_Q2]

Wow, that is a lot of rounds.  I have mine at 32 and warrior and might go through a few hundred pistol rounds and less than a hundred shotgun rounds.  Maybe a hundred or so rifle rounds for the demos.  Originally had it so melee was an option but pathing is no longer reliable for some reason.  I do use electrical fences and those have been tuned up to do more damage than they should IMHO.  They were fine on damage before but I notice that they kill most standard zeds on their own now.  Gona fit some blade traps for the next round to supplement my dart traps for the oh @%$*#! moments.