Crucible at INT 10 is Too High

[Jugginator]

Just saying, there can be a better way to make it end-game ya know. Every spec needs steel at some point in the end-game, and shredding a spec to put all the points into intellect causes those specs to be near wothless unless you're like level 70 or something and can max out Int and still have enough to max out the spec you wanted to play as. There's a better solution for it somewhere.

[Scyris]

I've found more crucibles, and crucible schematics well before Int 10, hell before Int 5 to be honest.

 

I've built multiple bicycles and motorcycles with no points in grease monkey.

 

Think outside the stat box, people.

 

Yeah every game I have played in a18 my int stays at the base, there is no need to invest in it at all. There are other ways to get anything you need. Only skill point I spend in int perks is for adv engineering 1 and thats mostly for the faster forge craft times than anything else. You do have to be patient though as your relying on rng and looting/buying the schematics, but it saves a ton of perk points. Which in the long run are more important imo. I seen int perks as a total waste, once you build the stuff, what purpose does still having the perks do? sure i could reset them out after, but by the time I get 40k dukes+ I probally could have found all the schematics for the stuff I spent points in intel and its perks to get.

[Orclover]

In the last day with a new server I have....hit level 9 while gathering and outfitted my level 1 friend with a forge, workstation and cooking station. All fully equipped even with the forge has everything and a Crucible. I have 0 points put into INT. Just foraging, he's still level 1 and has only played an hour. BUILDING these station with points is meaningless. You can gather the parts for crafting equipment in a few hours of looting, easily.

 

My bud can now log in when he can and start crafting whatever he wants.

[Viktoriusiii]

In the last day with a new server I have....hit level 9 while gathering and outfitted my level 1 friend with a forge, workstation and cooking station. All fully equipped even with the forge has everything and a Crucible. I have 0 points put into INT. Just foraging, he's still level 1 and has only played an hour. BUILDING these station with points is meaningless. You can gather the parts for crafting equipment in a few hours of looting, easily.

 

My bud can now log in when he can and start crafting whatever he wants.

 

well it is still rng.

While you got incredibly lucky, OP might have gotten incredibly unlucky.

I have unlocked 5/8 of the recipes that I needed just via schematics... So I think the droprates for average players is fine.

[Orclover]

well it is still rng.

While you got incredibly lucky, OP might have gotten incredibly unlucky.

I have unlocked 5/8 of the recipes that I needed just via schematics... So I think the droprates for average players is fine.

 

Honestly I think Lucky Looter has a lot to do with it, with every A18 but this one I maxed out lucky looter to 5. The % boost seems small, but adds up with every box you open over time. Like a 1 in 100 chance being turned into 1 in 20. I'll open 20 different crates in under an hour, easily.

[Whorhay]

I maxed out lucky looter and didn't find a crucible in any way until day 50 something. Not having steel in large quantities wasn't that large of an issue though as a full on perception build. If you know you're going to need lots of steel for your builds or whatever spec straight for it, you could have it at level 18 with nerd glasses. You could probably manage that by day 14 pretty readily.

[Scyris]

In my most recent game the trader has the crucible schematic for sale when he restocked on day 4, was in secret stash, and I don't have anything in better barter, I probally got lucky though.

[Ghostlight]

but... you can make steel as soon as you have the crucible...

so if you buy it day 1 you have steel day 1, dont you? :-?

 

8000 dukes please....on day 1

 

I've found more crucibles, and crucible schematics well before Int 10, hell before Int 5 to be honest. I've built multiple bicycles and motorcycles with no points in grease monkey. Think outside the stat box, people.

 

I have a sandwich therefore world hunger does not exist...

 

 

 

Well, yeah, but don't forget some folks like to play on rather difficult settings, and that steel becomes vital once you get near 200 gamestage and you're still stuck in the iron age lol.

 

Someone gets it. Plus, with the multiplayer gamestage multiplier being so high, we hit gamestage 320 on the day 21 horde. Concrete bases do not cut it then. Demolishers eat it for breakfast.

 

And saying you can just loot or buy Steel, or change the base design so Concrete is strong enough is simply forcing a play-style and base design on the players. I could build a wood base that exploits the AI and no longer need Steel, but I don't want to go there, it's boring as hell.

[Whorhay]

If you know you will need steel badly and reliably, spec straight for it. I actually did the math wrong earlier, you should be able to get to steel at level 15 with nerd glasses. Last I heard the xp was still shared in MP so getting to 15 by day 14 should be very doable, in solo I was 20 on day 14. And since it's MP speccing straight for steel should be less punishing because there are other group members to carry you while you aren't putting points into combat skills.

[Ghostlight]

Right so I'd be able to forge Steel but:

 

I can't loot properly due to lack of inventory space

I can't run anywhere and I'd have no Stamina for fighting

Not that I can actually fight since I'd suck at everything and have a hard time killing zombies (we don't all play on easy/default)

I can't cook anything meaningful

I would not be able to do any of the above anyway since I will spend all my time mining resources (badly) - where the heck would I get the Iron to make my Steel?

 

That's quite a play-style you are forcing on me.

[Kalen]

Right so I'd be able to forge Steel but:

 

I can't loot properly due to lack of inventory space

I can't run anywhere and I'd have no Stamina for fighting

Not that I can actually fight since I'd suck at everything and have a hard time killing zombies (we don't all play on easy/default)

I can't cook anything meaningful

I would not be able to do any of the above anyway since I will spend all my time mining resources (badly) - where the heck would I get the Iron to make my Steel?

 

That's quite a play-style you are forcing on me.

 

That's what your teammates are for

[RestInPieces]

But yeah as I said... not totally agreeing with int 10... but I understand where they are coming from.

 

And yes it is end game. You can find it d1. But that is why gameplay is varied. And that is actually a good thing.

Either play like rambo with 40 perks in fighting perks and risk not having the ressources and schematics that matter, or go half and half or even full intellect until you have all that you need and then relearn all the stuff.

 

I agree it shouldnt be this high, but until there is something that comes by that is even better than steel (some carbonated military fibers or something, there needs to be an endgame ressource and a reward for speccing into Int 10.

 

Well said. There isn't any other end-game resource that would make it worth investing in INT, so making it available earlier would not make sense.

 

Besides you can get steel deterministically (100%) at level ~18, which is pretty early for an end game material. Even sooner with nerd glasses.

 

"Arguments" like:

1)"I shouldn't have to use an end-game material for end-game gear/defenses"

2)"I chose not to invest in INT because I thought it was useless and now RNG doesn't let me get schematics"

3)"I should get free handouts because I just have to get end-game stuff early because reasons"

 

...put bluntly, are dumb. And adding the typical "I am being forced into a playstyle, because argument 1/2/3", makes it even dumber. Not because I or anyone else may disagree with you, but because they lack any meaningful shred of logic.

 

INT is a great tree to spec in, both for team and solo play. Especially with 50% or lower loot (which is the setting the game is meant to be played at currently, imo). Even if you don't go straight for it, the game is easy enough on e.g. warrior to let you spread your talents in other trees or get other useful INT perks.

 

There is none to blame but yourself if you thought INT was useless and that you could get every recipe INT has to offer with RNG, and were surprised when you didn't. Or for not lowering the difficulty if you can't handle the game on higher difficulty settings without steel.

[Ghostlight]

1)"I shouldn't have to use an end-game material for end-game gear/defenses"

 

A Helmet Light is end-game gear?

[RestInPieces]

A Helmet Light is end-game gear?

 

Obviously.

You can switch to a torch if you want light at early game.

You can switch to a flashlight later in the game.

You can craft a mining helmet even later in the game and you don't have to switch weapons.

And finally, you can add a light mod to your helmet of choice, which can be the best helmet in the game.

[Kalen]

Well said. There isn't any other end-game resource that would make it worth investing in INT, so making it available earlier would not make sense.

 

Besides you can get steel deterministically (100%) at level ~18, which is pretty early for an end game material. Even sooner with nerd glasses.

 

"Arguments" like:

1)"I shouldn't have to use an end-game material for end-game gear/defenses"

2)"I chose not to invest in INT because I thought it was useless and now RNG doesn't let me get schematics"

3)"I should get free handouts because I just have to get end-game stuff early because reasons"

 

...put bluntly, are dumb. And adding the typical "I am being forced into a playstyle, because argument 1/2/3", makes it even dumber. Not because I or anyone else may disagree with you, but because they lack any meaningful shred of logic.

 

INT is a great tree to spec in, both for team and solo play. Especially with 50% or lower loot (which is the setting the game is meant to be played at currently, imo). Even if you don't go straight for it, the game is easy enough on e.g. warrior to let you spread your talents in other trees or get other useful INT perks.

 

There is none to blame but yourself if you thought INT was useless and that you could get every recipe INT has to offer with RNG, and were surprised when you didn't. Or for not lowering the difficulty if you can't handle the game on higher difficulty settings without steel.

 

Even better.... you can perk up the INT tree, get a crucible, then drink an elixir to reset all your skill points and perk to what you want. The point is we have several viable options.

[Ghostlight]

Obviously.

You can switch to a torch if you want light at early game.

You can switch to a flashlight later in the game.

You can craft a mining helmet even later in the game and you don't have to switch weapons.

And finally, you can add a light mod to your helmet of choice, which can be the best helmet in the game.

 

Crafted Mining Helmets do not come with Lights. You need to find or craft the mod.

[RestInPieces]

Crafted Mining Helmets do not come with Lights. You need to find or craft the mod.

 

True and tbh they should, since there is little point in crafting such a helmet if you can just install it in any other helmet and it would make QOL progression smoother. Making a point about them has enough logic to it instead of making a point about wanting the best solution sooner. We still have alternatives though other than the light mod and it is a top QOL upgrade (other than the ambiguous lootable night vision googles), so why shouldn't you regard it as an end-game item?

 

More about the mining/firefighter helmets - I thought it was a bug as well, but Twigg from QA said that was the intended design https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?128754-A18-b143-EXP-bug-reporting-thread&p=1036954&viewfull=1#post1036954

 

The question is - should it be like that? I have my objections on this too and will post about it on the dev/balance thread.

[Ghostlight]

I don't consider it end-game at all. 99% of the time in game you don't need a light source. I rarely even have mine switched on. So no, not remotely end-game. Are you saying every item that needs Steel in its recipe is end-game?

 

Anti-Rad mod is an end-game mod.

 

Why do you refer to NVG as ambiguous?

[RestInPieces]

I don't consider it end-game at all. 99% of the time in game you don't need a light source. I rarely even have mine switched on. So no, not remotely end-game. Are you saying every item that needs Steel in its recipe is end-game?

 

Carrying some kind of light source is a must in my playthroughs. It helps in some POIs and mining at day and it helps nearly everywhere at night. Don't know how you got that 99%. Would you even care that it requires steel to make or waste a slot for it if that was the case?

 

But even if that was the case, it doesn't change the fact it's the best QOL you can get for lighting, so why shouldn't the best QOL of its category be end-game material, especially since there are many earlier game alternatives, which would become pointless if you could get that earlier?

 

Why do you refer to NVG as ambiguous?

 

Because some people can't stand its current screen effect, but to be fair it has improved a lot over the alphas.

[Ghostlight]

Carrying some kind of light source is a must in my playthroughs. It helps in some POIs and mining at day and it helps nearly everywhere at night.

 

My entire base is covered in torches and glows like a colossal bonfire at night. So many torches it's probably visible from space. I also scatter Torches all over the immediate area to light that up as well. No need for any other lights really. And during the day everything is well-lit enough that I don't need a light then either.

 

Would you even care that it requires steel to make or waste a slot for it if that was the case?

 

Because you (or someone) stated that it made sense that end-game items required end-game materials to make. I brought up the Helmet Light because it was the least late-game item I could think of that required Steel to make.