Fortitude - Garbage for Damage

[Orclover]

Steel is int 10? That's crazy. They really need to rethink that. My god.

 

 

The crucible part of it is INT 10, which sucks and level locked like that is insane. However you can buy steel and find the crucible in lootboxes almost from day 1. I picked up a crucible recently on day 5 and got a schematic on day 7, can now make forged steel. My poor friend who is going INT build as usual is still only level 1 and is not happy with how crafters are getting shafted.

[Ghostlight]

You use a temporary and insufficient horde base instead of the real horde base and then complain you need steel? No, you either need a base design for the real horde base that grows with the demand or you need a better design for the temporary base.

 

If you play as if steel was guaranteed then make it guaranteed (through INT). Otherwise plan with concrete.

 

You need Steel for many things, lots of it. Your base in MP when gamestage scales up SO FAST is but one example.

[meganoth]

You need Steel for many things, lots of it. Your base in MP when gamestage scales up SO FAST is but one example.

 

Agreed on needing steel for lots of things. But each of those other use-cases use small amounts of steel that can be bought at the trader and wrenched from specific items or found. The things you want to built with steel also can be found or bought instead of crafting them. You probably have to carefully consider what is essential and what optional when your steel supply is limited.

[Ghostlight]

Agreed on needing steel for lots of things. But each of those other use-cases use small amounts of steel that can be bought at the trader and wrenched from specific items or found.

 

4-players. Everyone wants everything crafted. It adds up.

 

Our group has already used about 5000 Steel Bars, I'd guesstimate. As the Miner I kept a fairly close eye on our consumption of Iron -> Steel. And we are on day 33.

[Ghostlight]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

[Ramethzer0]

I hear what you are saying but it is ridiculously easy to exploit the AI with a few infinite ramps or mazes once you know its rules. At least it was in A17, I haven't actually bothered to try in A18, but as far as I can see it would still be easy. Problem is it would trivialize horde night and we don't want to do that. We want danger and threat. And we want to build bases that would handle any AI. Our rule of thumb is the base must be able to handle every AI in every alpha we ever played, and not just the super easy to exploit AI they added in A17. And must utilize no ramp or maze exploits.

 

I've made bases that made me perfectly safe while I fought zeds. I've made bases that made me perfectly safe without fighting zeds. I've made bases that I gave a weakness to, because I knew the zeds would exploit it. I think the best base is the one that balances these things out. I gain a sense of satisfaction through wit and strategy. If you don't want to make anything other than a perfectly level playing field without using a maze, what sorta base design are you actually using? I mean if you want to straight up face the horde without trivializing it, then why not do it on open ground?

 

I'm not attacking your idea, I just want to know what you consider to be the sweet spot. I will likely have a better suggestion if I can visualize what sort of tactics you consider to be worthwhile.

[SunderGoldmane]

Iآ’d love for the power attack of knuckles to be an uppercut with a large chance to stagger instead of the dome punch it is currently. It feels like a jab. Iآ’d really love to see some kind of small fluid combo system. Left click are alternating hooks and right click is an over head or an uppercut depending on which hand is up.

[meganoth]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

 

Somewhat okay for me. If at all I might (if neccessary) add more sources to scavenge it in the wild. Maybe make it INT9 instead of INT10 (effectively that would be INT 8 then with the glasses).

 

Since the schematic or the crucible itself can drop even for a lvl 1 it is naturally very harsh for some other plebs to have the bad luck to never find it. On the other hand steel is the last and ONLY end-game upgrade. And I mean the end-game where everyone has enough perk points to perk into a second attribute. For everything except extensive base-building you probably can wrench enough steel (not actually tested it though). And then you have a choice: Wrench/buy (i.e. send the perception/mechanic guy to get steel and someone else to make a trader tour) or go INT (which also has some other benefits with trap xp and turrets).

 

You saying "Everyone wants everything crafted" is for the resource management game of 7D2D like saying you want the Q6 M60 guaranteed for the shooter part. But your group wants it difficult, so your group might play the resource game on difficult and not only the shooter part on difficult. A group has it easy: If crucible doesn't drop, someone (preferably the one who already uses turrets ) bites the bullet and goes INT. If your group doesn't want survival at all and only play a tower defense shooter (and it really sounds like you are the only one doing the work in your group (i.e. the mining for example) and the rest just wants to have an easy time ) then there is always creative menu.

 

You also might never find a working chemstation. Again there is the choice of speccing into int (less than for steel, granted) or continue searching for it and meanwhile living with the consequences.

[Shillen]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

 

It wouldn't be so bad if the skill points required for high stats wasn't stupid. Going from int 5 to int 10 costs a LOT of skill points. It's really never worth it to take a stat to 10 because of how many skill points you need to spend.

[Orclover]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

 

It's crafters that are being screwed here honestly not the players. In the last day since I posted I have found 2 more crucibles, i'm barely level 12. They are now gathering dust in our drop off box waiting for my buddy to log in and use them. What is likely to happen though is looting them will get nerfed into oblivion instead of crafting made more reasonable.

 

It wouldn't be so bad if the skill points required for high stats wasn't stupid. Going from int 5 to int 10 costs a LOT of skill points. It's really never worth it to take a stat to 10 because of how many skill points you need to spend.

 

Oh its worse the higher level you go. I hit level 30-40 and the skill points just friggin stop suddenly due to the exploding experience needed. Honestly after level 40 we should only get skill points from each tier V mission we run and surviving each horde night all the way through should award a point or two. It would be way faster than leveling. Maybe even give them for those paper quest that we pick up that are almost worthless.

[Limdood]

4-players. Everyone wants everything crafted. It adds up.

 

Our group has already used about 5000 Steel Bars, I'd guesstimate. As the Miner I kept a fairly close eye on our consumption of Iron -> Steel. And we are on day 33.

 

If you're playing with 1 or 2 players, you have enough steel to craft the things you need (save maybe 4x4 or full steel armor) from traders, looting, and wrenching....maybe not EVERYTHING, but you shouldn't have everything.

 

If you're playing with a full 4 players, and someone isn't investing into INT to 10 as a priority....and then complaining that the amount of steel the game provides for scavenging isn't enough...I don't know what to tell you...

 

...wait...yes I do.

 

If you need some of something, use a workaround. If you CONSISTENTLY need a LOT of something, spec into it.

 

You want to make a couple steel mods, a single steel tool, maybe save up for a motorcycle? you can get the steel if you look for it.

 

You want to deck out a full 4 player team with top tier loot/mods/armor, or build a giant steel base? Then you need to get lucky on RNG or spec into int 10 engineering 5.

 

its the same for mining, looting, sneaking or fighting at max proficiency. You want to do it a little bit? make do. You want to do it consistently a LOT? spec it.

[theFlu]

Just to be clear, are there folks out there sitting thinking that a Crucible being locked behind Int 10 + Engineering 5 is OK?????

 

I'm one who'd say yes. For 'OK', not necessarily what I'd choose to implement - but as pretty much the best perk in the defensive game, it should be at the most expensive spot.

 

Would I swap it with, say, gating steel walls instead of Forged Steel (making forged steel around int 5-6 for the mod/tool crafting)? Quite likely.

 

EDIT: How to gate steel walls? For example, "Advanced Nailgun" or something more thematic, a "Welding torch"

[Limdood]

EDIT: How to gate steel walls? For example, "Advanced Nailgun" or something more thematic, a "Welding torch"

 

Or gate the recipe for "steel plating" for walls at Int 10. made with steel (which could be available earlier).

 

That being said, I'm also just fine with it being gated.

 

You can buy steel, you can loot or wrench steel, you can get RNG and get an early crucible/schematic, you can avoid using steel (don't need steel walls if they're not hitting the walls...a long approach sniping headshots straight down it works fine on everything up to demolishers...which in any of my solo games (max level 80) or co op games (both level 35) we have yet to see).

 

OR

 

If you really need steel, and need it in bulk because that is the must-have thing in your solo game, or your group is relying on large quantities of steel, then someone needs to perk into it.

 

I 100% agree with that game design direction.

[SenpaiThatIngnoresYou]

Or gate the recipe for "steel plating" for walls at Int 10. made with steel (which could be available earlier).

 

That being said, I'm also just fine with it being gated.

 

You can buy steel, you can loot or wrench steel, you can get RNG and get an early crucible/schematic, you can avoid using steel (don't need steel walls if they're not hitting the walls...a long approach sniping headshots straight down it works fine on everything up to demolishers...which in any of my solo games (max level 80) or co op games (both level 35) we have yet to see).

 

OR

 

If you really need steel, and need it in bulk because that is the must-have thing in your solo game, or your group is relying on large quantities of steel, then someone needs to perk into it.

 

I 100% agree with that game design direction.

 

Or, you can use concrete walls instead, with a normal block center, and a plate on the outside AND inside and have three thick walls that take up the space of one and a half blocks and are cheaper to repair. For extra shenanigans you can have a pole cage inside the base, so that you can still fix the interior plate and fight off breaches at the same time from the inside.

 

As for melee in alpha 18, the baseball bat is amazing, especially if you have read all the books associated with it.

[Scyris]

Or, you can use concrete walls instead, with a normal block center, and a plate on the outside AND inside and have three thick walls that take up the space of one and a half blocks and are cheaper to repair. For extra shenanigans you can have a pole cage inside the base, so that you can still fix the interior plate and fight off breaches at the same time from the inside.

 

As for melee in alpha 18, the baseball bat is amazing, especially if you have read all the books associated with it.

 

Makes me sad sledge doesn't have a book series but then again they are pretty much the best melee weapon hands down so, I kinda see why it lacks one.