Joel and TFP can K.I.S.S. it now

[4sheetzngeegles]

Joel and TFP can K.I.S.S. it.

With a17 you have progressed to the point of a by the numbers scenario.

 

10 second readers skip to The thought:

TLDR readers skip to K.I.S.S.

 

The title sounds like belligerence, or click bait. It is neither.

Its a term taught to me in college literary expression. The meaning

"Keep It Simple Stupid". Once you get to a certain amount of precision,

in any project, the only thing left, is to sit back and call it complete

or break it by fixing it.

 

Long

Example: Tuning a car for 750whp@8000rpm, custom bluebrinted with a new

alluminum head. Every part in place every bolt tightened to spec, but

when you dyno your engine you find that its actually producing, 738whp.

The average and uninformed owner/builder first thought is i need a bigger

cam, or more compression, because bigger and more is always desireable,

yeah but it comes at a great cost, more money, more time, rebuilding the

engine, and more oppotunity to misalign a drivetrain component that was

already at optimal spec. To make 12 HP. Here's a good idea bout to go bad.

The weekend warrior, jams all the new parts in, shaves the head and gets

HD steel bolts to hold the xtra compression. Better crank it an xtra 1/4

turn for good measure; more is better right?. Dyno 2 757whp, for 10 seconds,

then the gut wrenching sound of your engine, being turned into a combo hoover

and a magnum. Matching seats for those bolts, and torquing to spec may have

been a better start. Or an informed and dedicated person, Might go 12 inches

down stream of the collectors, and install an "Xpath" crossflow system. Benefit,

exhaust balance, throaty tone, a smoother powerband, and Dyno 2, 751whp@8000rpm.

Best of all you can drive home. The other guy will say yeah but i got 6 hp more.

Would you rather a driveable 751 or a POS 757 on paper, at an additional cost of

3000 dollars?

 

K.I.S.S.

Example: Use the tools allocated for modding, to expand the flexibility of the game

interface. The game has progressed beyond, "just a". The Main tweaking is numbers,

Each generephile has a different desire for what is considered right, those silent now

will become vocal when there numbers are changed. Creating a see saw, but never reaching

the end goal. And breaking processes along the way to overcompensate.

The graphics, Game play, Basic ai action/reaction/animation, are all in place.

The tweaking involved is mainly config settings. Why not use Xpath associated with a Gui

control, and a directory associated with each genre, you already do something similar but

from the responses and constant flip/flop changes in the numbers, its not as intuitive as

you might like. One persons default is another persons wuss, one persons HardCore is another

persons laughably overcompensating.

 

The thought:

1 Levels of difficulty, (limited by Engine) scaled 1 to whatever, in an xml file.

Including the various spawner outputs.

 

2 Genre playstyle, an alternate config folder per genre. Loaded from front end GUI

selection.

 

3 Random generation, vs Manual genreration world. GUI selector at logon Xpath to a Class

script and a separate folder With a prefix designation for checks and balances. Or

instead of a class an encoded dll with the differentiated class or classes. In the

initial dll if Rwg then default, if Manual then xpath to file.

 

4 If you xpath the multiple defaults, per playstyle, see #2 then in a single game each

player selects their Job, a party of six, because of the initial seletion in Gui

Are instantly assigned their own progression. leveling and game scope. A farmer is a farmer,

Defender, Resouce gatherer, Builder, J.O.A.T. all have their own perceived progression and

acceptable limitations. All can play their way and contribute to the collective. "borg ref i know"

 

5 Adjustability, Roland + poll including spreadsheet, + math a numeric to support the written.

Roland likes polls, players like polls, Roland does math as profession, receives justified visual

result on spreadsheet.

 

6 Modular, scalable, Relatively simple to implement, allows for for concentrating on code conflict

vs preferential conflict. Simple to a coder, I'm not one.

 

7 Additional, xpath possibilities, variable horde release dates, Texture 2d clothing, variable tint

same as cars, Randomized secret locations limited to the world, terrain and biome adjusted by

slider, vs mathematical rearrangement. Buffs, debuffs, ai etc. But it would allow TFP to sculpt

an extended amount of scenarios in one box.

[xXBadDreamXx]

this is far too logical. instead they should just rebuild the game every alpha and try to make it like other games instead of realizing the golden egg they have allready and be happy with it

[Viktoriusiii]

this is far too logical. instead they should just rebuild the game every alpha and try to make it like other games instead of realizing the golden egg they have allready and be happy with it

 

*Gazz is typing*

 

No seriously. +1 for you (and the op)

but I fear A17 was already one step too far...

but as I have been told a lot: "This was the plan from the beginning! Even though nothing in the game even hinted at it!"

[xXBadDreamXx]

well i think by "plan from the beginning" they mean were figuring stuff out as we go and once the game feels the way we want we'll let you know.

 

I wonder if these changes make the game feel more like fallout? MM said hes a big fallout fan and its influencing the game changes being made. i guess thats fine and all but if i wanted to play fallout i could just buy it....would be interesting to get feedback from someone thats played some fallout games

[Spider]

Yes A17 is extremely Fallouty. And yes if you wanted to play a Fallout type game, Fallout would be a much better game to play than A17. Not even remotely close.

[xXBadDreamXx]

good to know...the entire fallout series never appealed to me....maybe thats why something seems off with a17 for me

[4sheetzngeegles]

I only point toward Xpath and external script processing, because the tools provided were created by Kin and Faatal,

If anyone can use them completely it would be them. Then in resulting meetings, simple variables can be discussed to

allow for a fexible countoured, multiple client type result. Also increasing marketability without reinventing, the coding

process. Each version from what ive partially seen is nearly a different game, each has its own defineable aspects for

recognition. Most of these aspects are numeric representations, Xpath as a default can possibly reincorporate legacy

favorable numerics, allowing for instant wide range of possibilities. Even if a person only bought this game to build

houses and terrain. it is not Minecraft in the least. PBR and the libnoise algorithms have seen to that. Physics, structural

integrity, infected antagonists biped quadraped and flying, Terraforming, and some of the most infuriatingly fun ai that ive

seen yet. This game is a mod out the box, so why not, open the throttle. They have progressed well beyond the foundation, for simple game and gameplay

and they changed the focus from acute to encompassing.

[sadpickle]

Yes A17 is extremely Fallouty. And yes if you wanted to play a Fallout type game, Fallout would be a much better game to play than A17. Not even remotely close.

 

good to know...the entire fallout series never appealed to me....maybe thats why something seems off with a17 for me

 

The only relation to Fallout is the abysmal perks system, and perhaps the gun modding to some small degree. At this point, I would like to stress that those systems only show up post FO3.

 

For me, Bethesda is little better than EA. The only difference is they seem to have some talent in Bethesda Studios. I don't know why TFP thought it would be smart to emulate FO4's progression system. The perks were widely derided by longtime FO fans because it's a watering down of a better system (one of skills AND occasional perks working together), I think done mostly to cater to console players and casual plebs. In the case of 7DTD it is even more unfortunate as we had a near-unheard of skill system of "learning by doing," which I rarely see in commercial games. It was an ambitious design and I'm still disappointed TFP decided to abandon it rather than rigorously balance it. Now the game is ever more like so many bland RPGs: an endless exercise of looking for more EXP so you can gain another level. Before there was a strong connection between your activities and your progression. Now there is zero. And despite the nerf, finding zeds and clubbing them to death is still the fastest and most reliable way to level. And because everything is level-gated, if you want to access some parts of the game you are simply required to get those levels. That or play MP, which I firmly believe is the priority now, TFP's claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

[AtomicUs5000]

My only respect for Bethesda comes from id Software. Rip and Tear beats Pip-Boy any day.

[LuckyStar]

One persons default is another persons wuss, one persons HardCore is another

persons laughably overcompensating.

 

This made me laugh.

 

I get a kick out the Elitists who come up with one silly reason or another to brag about how they play better then you or I because of some reason or another.

 

[Frotus]

I only point toward Xpath and external script processing, because the tools provided were created by Kin and Faatal,

If anyone can use them completely it would be them. Then in resulting meetings, simple variables can be discussed to

allow for a fexible countoured, multiple client type result. Also increasing marketability without reinventing, the coding

process. Each version from what ive partially seen is nearly a different game, each has its own defineable aspects for

recognition. Most of these aspects are numeric representations, Xpath as a default can possibly reincorporate legacy

favorable numerics, allowing for instant wide range of possibilities. Even if a person only bought this game to build

houses and terrain. it is not Minecraft in the least. PBR and the libnoise algorithms have seen to that. Physics, structural

integrity, infected antagonists biped quadraped and flying, Terraforming, and some of the most infuriatingly fun ai that ive

seen yet. This game is a mod out the box, so why not, open the throttle. They have progressed well beyond the foundation, for simple game and gameplay

and they changed the focus from acute to encompassing.

 

Are you suggesting they sell it in the Unity store as an SDK addon for Unity developers who want to make a finished product but don't want to mess around porting the game to the latest Unity engine or figuring out how to make Voxels work in Unity, etc.?

[Sellsents]

I get a kick out the Elitists ...

 

And it seems that posting dumb gifs all over this board is your hobby too.

[4sheetzngeegles]

@Frotus " Are you suggesting they sell it in the Unity store as an SDK"

 

Look at a wiki list of the games that have been produced using unity.

 

That wasn't my direct thought but going back to the beginning

of me on the forum, and my literal introducton to Joel,Rick,

and TFP staff. After my initial Steam backdoor driver update

and controller issue, I would always write that I saw it as more

than just a game. The majority of the games focus on a single

Gaming Genre, with a smattering of skattered ASSociations to others.

 

I can only use myself as an example.

 

I wanted to buy a zombie game, that was more. Just more than

the sum of its parts.

 

My first learning experience:

Terrforming; learning more about Libnoise and its function.

Flat world, single biome, ecological biome placement according to

height vs distance "Veronoi" "biome gen vs terrain gen" the near

300 meter cliffsnext to a 0 meter ravine.

 

The next was programming the ai to be more interactive, in the

environment. A config I called the flood. Added a circle of life scenario

That had everything attacking everything else, stopped looking for the

books and only used found working devices. Had to map out locations to

move resources from place to place, in order to build.

This caused me to delve into the conversion of xml values into active

representaion on a screen.

I began to see the game, as a game, built as a template.

 

I stored each alpha and alpha b version on my spare drives as a

comparison and a learning progression of how it was developing, changing,

growing, a bit faster than i might have expected. After all its just

a game, right.

 

It wasn't without its bugs or glitches, so did forum diving

and learned how to fix many of those errors on my playthrough. Now i played

with Dm mode activated, to interact if I saw things happening and adjust the

ai interaction, and adjust the terrain layout. Then id go back to the save

point. To create one id just batch save my, appdata saves while not moving

as a zip. after xml edits id log of dm and restart and play again.

I began to see the game as a primer.

 

I then began to participate more in the modding section, which lead me to

Discord, which led me to getting to see just how little of the surface i had

scraped, Graphics rerendering, atmospheric lighting, Entity variation. This

combined with the dll reader tools also created on the forum allowed me to see

more and the talent that goes on behind the scenes. Vehicles, Ai, Entity artwork,

Proof of concepts to whole new games built from 7DTD foundation. recognized and

used Around the world.

 

A17, long wait, but, PBR textures, Corrected Normals and shadows, an AI to die

from literally. I actually played a couple 12 hour sessions at 120min

days, and still wanted to enhance my environment. Now i had best of both personally.

Plus, The introduction of converting my own 2d grayscale painting into a 3d environment.

Rich colors, just turn gamma to between 14 and 7.

 

Conclusion:

I through my own experience see 7DTD, as a progressive thinking Apocalyptic themed game.

It has the inclusion of a reprogrammable ai via xml. The potential 100% custom landscape

layout. Is a semi open format, using .net dll and (Unity an under utilized engine til now).

Graphically adjustable, gotta learn array manipulation. Is based off c#, for me cscript,

originally learned from RunUO and ServUO emulators. Has been proven to be reproduced using

a completely unlike game theme Medieval and still be successful.

 

Joel is a businessman, entrepreneur, realestate tactician, and dreamer. He, Rick

and a gathering have achieved a dream. My first read introduction to MadMole was make

other peoples money work for you. This is business sense, From kickstarter, to

progressive builds, changing company layout, to listening to the community he and TFP

cultivated. The end result may be to lease, the environment to Unity, Buy it and box it

for the aspiring Game devs that follow. But I dont see it being completed and shelved

to follow the DODO bird. Thats like a premature withdrawal of finacial assets prior to

profit buildup and realization. Doesn't seem very fulfilling in or out of a bank environment.

It also would seem a bit contrary to past observation.

 

Do i have unrealistic, appreciation for this project, I dont think so. I just learned to

work with and approach the individual problems on my own terms. The game isnt locked,

I can expand it, my way. Anyone that hasn't gotten at least part of what i did through

the alpha progressions, you have been robbing yourself.

 

Final Example: I have mixed and matched, version xmls from near the beginning, if ai for

a17 b140 got wonky, I just overwrote it with b197-138 which ever i preferred. progression

if it were a bit too one sided, then id use excerpts from a pror b to compensate. Thats

why i say its just Genre number placement now. Pois,Entities,programmable ai, semi adjustable

terrain use b197-b131 and fully adjust, adjustable lighting and graphics, structural physics,

resources, adjustable hud, Discord support priceless.

[secateurs]

As the game is now, it's like building up a 750hp car THEN NEVER DRIVING IT. Because the getting of stuff is the only progression TFP have created.

[Scyris]

this is far too logical. instead they should just rebuild the game every alpha and try to make it like other games instead of realizing the golden egg they have allready and be happy with it

 

They already been doing that since I been around in a9 or 10, they need to finally stop and lock it down, as redoing most of the game every alpha has gottan the game honestly virtually no where since a9/10. Sure it looks prettier etc, but when was the last time we had a real content update? new zombies? randimized looking zombies? bosses? more weapons? this stuff has been a long time coming. We did get electricity, and some enw vechicles, but other than that, really nothing else thats "new". Imo if a modder can make a hundred+ uma zombies and add them to the spawner, there is no reason why the devs can't add some uma zombies. I assume UMA is the char creator and textures related to it though. Even if they had simmlar stats to the other zombies we have at least it'd add visual variety because nothing is more immersion breaking imo then seeing a wandering horde and every single one of them is the exact same zombie, or 2 or 3 diff types with multiple of each one all walking in a line.

 

My biggest gripe personally with 7dtd is mostly the zombies, there is just a severe lack of variety, ferals are just normal ones that run with a bit higher stats. Speaking of ferals they really need to make a easier way to tell if a zombie is feral or not, when its a sleeper you usually have a really hard time knowing till you hit it.

 

Then we have the voxel system which after a11, its almost like.. why are we keeping this system? when they aren't... doing anything with it. This is mostly to do with digging, there needs to be caves and such again like in a11. I've said it before but I love exploring underground in terraria as there is always stuff to find, can't say the same in 7dtd as there is literally nothing underground, even finding a ore vein is pretty damn hard in a17. I say make it so the SI system only takes effect on stuff above ground and better yet only on player built blocks, sure that poi sitting there in midair with 1 block supporting it may look silly, but it's better for gameplay in the end imho.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

As the game is now, it's like building up a 750hp car THEN NEVER DRIVING IT. Because the getting of stuff is the only progression TFP have created.

 

This is so true, in my current save I am level 25, and I already can craft tier 5 gear, 6 int+smart glasses. So looting now for me has lost a fair amount of purpose as I can now craft better than i'll likely ever find. I only loot for stuff I can't make yet.

[Frotus]

My biggest gripe personally with 7dtd is mostly the zombies, there is just a severe lack of variety, ferals are just normal ones that run with a bit higher stats. Speaking of ferals they really need to make a easier way to tell if a zombie is feral or not, when its a sleeper you usually have a really hard time knowing till you hit it. - - - Updated - - -

 

 

It is too bad the UMA zombies seemed to use too many resources or whatever the problem was with it. That was cool having a horde of mostly unique zombies attacking me.

[Frotus]

@4sheetz: Yah, either way I think this game has inspired me to think more about procedural generation and methods that could be used to generate a more realistic landscape. I don't mind if the world feels alien, but would like things to make some sense.