Roland
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Posts posted by Roland
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36 minutes ago, grendelwolf said:
Because it will happen in a future build.
Yes. It will. And before it happens and people are forced to the new way Khaine will have a tutorial video made, most mods will have the instructions posted for what users need to do, and it really won't be that big of a deal. Why?
Because TFP warned everyone months before hand and gave the community time to adapt and sort things out and the solution turns out to be very simple and allows for multiple mods to be switched to without even having to have multiple full copies of the game loaded which means even more space saved on drives everywhere.
While some ranted and whined, others got busy doing what TFP gave us the time to do-- which was to come up with solutions. So the reasons why it is dense to keep stating and restating that this horrible change has been forced upon us are:
A) Nobody is currently being forced
B) This is the grace period given for coming up with solutions (which some people got to work doing while others just sat around raging)
C) By time the change actually happens everyone will be ready
D) Turns out the change isn't nearly as horrible as people initially thought and even carries new advantages,
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Fun fact: You can report PM's and PM's are subject to the same forum rules as public posting.
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2 hours ago, grendelwolf said:
But then TFP should make things configurable using the standard game options menu. They can't expect that every gamer want to fiddle around with configuarion files or launch parameters.
And they probably will do such things as soon as they shift from making the game itself to polishing supporting features like official modding support and Steam Workshop integration. Players participating in Early Access can't expect developers to drop their priorities to make buttons when they can fiddle around with config files and launch parameters if they really feel strongly about playing mods before the game is even done and the devs haven't even finalized official mod support...
People are suddenly scandalized about having to use workarounds for this situation when workarounds are what you are supposed to do and are expected to do while the game is indev and the things you want haven't been added yet to work natively. We've been using workarounds for this or that for coming on 9 years now.
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1 hour ago, grendelwolf said:
My neighbour told me this evening that you probably could use Sandboxie for running more than one version of a game that uses the same folders. You can have one Sandbox per 7 Days To Die version. And the versions shouldn't interfere because they run on different layers. I don't have any experiences with Sandboxie, but maybe this could help you.
https://github.com/sandboxie-plus
Here's a video about running multiple copies of Diablo 2 using Sandboxie. Sorry, volume is a bit low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItuC3mrHE0
I've tested Sandboxie with Alpha 20.4 Stable and its works like a charm sandboxed. I didn't notice any performance issues. I had no problems with using Steam too in Sandboxie. I didn't test multiple versions of 7 Days To Die and I made just a short test and played for about half an hour so far. So it's up to you to find out if Sandboxie will work for you.
Maybe this principle of different sandboxed game versions could even be integrated in a Mod Launcher?
Sandboxie is for free since 2019. And it has no Adware!
Now we finally see the culmination of your long game...
Grendelwolf: CEO of Sandboxie
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1 hour ago, KhaineGB said:
Alloc, sort of... because I don't like to bother him.
Prime, because I like to bother him a lot on twitch and cause endless suffering when he's testing twitch integration.
And i've spoken to Fataal a little bit. He helped me get the laser sight working on custom guns.I'd say that's probably plenty of common history for you to reach out to either Prime or faatal when you have concerns/feeback. Darkness Falls is a big deal and if you already passingly know those guys and they know you are the DF author, they would be interested in hearing from you whenever you have feedback to share with them.
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1 minute ago, KhaineGB said:
It is? Cos I wasn't asked. 😛
Who do you know among the devs? Alloc, possibly? Maybe Lathan or Robert? Send out personal message and see if you get a response.
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1 hour ago, DEDloc said:
The devs and modders need their own discord channel to discuss these things. Conversations like these out in the open are fueling the false narrative that "they moved the mods folder" when in fact for the user, nothing has changed. Simply DON't put any mods in %appdata% and you're fine.
If the concern here is to help the less powerful users have easy access to mods, information overload is a thing. Most regular players just blast over this long thread and assume the mods folder has been moved, period. Now it's more complex in their minds already.
It would be better if the modders just worked this out with the devs directly.
Modder/Developer conversation about this issue and other issues is already in place. Rational and measured discussion is happening. Conversations like this thread can't be suppressed or deleted because THAT would only cause white hot fury over nobody being able to give their feedback. The devs are obviously not going to engage in threads like this or on Steam where people are either inferring or outright accusing them of being dirt bags. You can tell that some of the people on here who are screaming outrage and claiming that they would be satisfied if only TFP would just give all the reasons why-- would in fact never be satisfied with anything less than exactly what they want for themselves. I gave the link to this thread days ago to the devs and they said that they were already communicating directly with modders they know in the community.
Rant threads and speculations of disaster have been and always will be a part of the development scene whenever a studio chooses to develop publicly instead of behind closed doors. The truth about the mods folder will eventually trickle out to everyone and those who made the wrong assumption at first will figure it out. Very few who come on the forum and say they are done with the game and post their goodbye actually follow through and never play the game again. That's why goodbye posts are against the rules. They are just troll posts.
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2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:
What @Matt115 said. Ofc we are going to think the worst. We don´t get details about what the exact plan is. If you don´t share what your exact goal is and how things should work in the final version you can´t expect people to be happy about changes that make it worse during the process.
And i am not establishing things as reality. I stated what is going wrong right now. By now you should know that we can only assume as we are talking about a game in development and given the fact that we don´t know what the endgoal of these changes is.
But we have to face the consequences. Like having to use a search filter with the correct region so i can see the servers on my favorite list. Only the ones that are in that region though. Can´t see my whole favorite list at once if they are in different regions. And to top it off i have to either go back to a20.3, go trough my output logs or the txt files from my savegames just to be able to find the servers i used before the change. And with results as faulty as that example you really wonder when people are pessimistic? Really? @Roland
The issues are always different in the particulars but the attitude and reaction is always the same from people who just don't know to expect change, reconfiguration, and evolution when playing a game in active development. People think they know and can laugh off changes when they affect others but are of no concern to them. But then that one update comes when they are the ones inconvenienced and all of a sudden they sound just like all the doom and gloomers of the past. I guess it was your turn this update pApA...
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1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:
@Roland Why am i not surprised that you are beeing condescending towards people who aren´t that tech savvy?
1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:Really feels a bit like TFP is trying to get rid of non tech savvy people.
Because you can’t take a joke and you are apparently a conspiracy theorist…You’re considering the worst case scenarios and then establishing those as reality. I guess we will find out whether or not your fears are real.
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5 hours ago, KhaineGB said:
DF is about 4GB.
5 hours ago, CyrusBlaze said:DF mod folder is 5.41GB on my system
Wow...
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1 minute ago, pApA^LeGBa said:
What if the change also does keep people from playing mods, because they can´t be bothered and or aren´t able searching for hidden folders or simply can´t be bothered upgrading their C drive because they only have a small ssd for it? But i guess the people that already paid aren´t as importnant as people that haven´t paid yet.
Maybe its good to have a competency filter on who plays mods...
It is exactly the same as now. People complain that the current method of playing mods is too complicated for them and they will never play mods until the method is simplified. What you are saying about the complications of the new method is what countless others have been saying about the current method.
The truth is that those who really want to mod will learn what's needed in order to mod.
As for the C drive filling up, aren't the mod files predominantly text files? How much space are they going to be taking up? I haven't looked at the total drain on my disk space that a full overhaul mod imposes so I guess I will do that before commenting further about how detrimental this is going to be on our disk space. If its 100s of MB or more than a GB then I will concerned with that as well
5 minutes ago, KhaineGB said:So we can't just say "Well if the answer is yes, then this is a good thing" without looking at the broader picture.
Very true!
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The question I have now is this:
Does the change allow players who are on Game Pass the ability to experience mods which they couldn't have if things remained the same? If the answer is yes, then it is definitely worth the change so that more people can experience mods than ever before and shows that TFP is not at war against modding and modders at all and are simply taking a huge step toward broadening the audience of those who can play 7 Days to Die in modded form.
If the answer is no, then I guess I am back to wondering.
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22 minutes ago, bdubyah said:
They should just quit babying people and go back to random spawns.
The non-babies already delete their tutorial quests immediately after spawning. But a random spawn not on the frickin doorstep of the nearest trader would definitely help.
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5 hours ago, Kirill_226RUS said:
@faatal, will it be possible in the future in RWG to choose 100% size for any one biome? I understand that you made a progression of biomes in A20 so that there would be an incentive to explore different biomes, but still it would be better if it could be done without resorting to xml/third-party world generators.
I can confirm that any one biome can be set to 100% and that all the biomes can be adjusted to varying percents to get the type of map you want. With forest biome very small you run the risk of getting a NO TRADER message for your beginning quest. There are still traders but just none in the forest and you will need to cancel the tutorial quest to get rid of the message and search for your first trader in one of the other biomes without gps. If you have forest set to 0% then you will for sure get no starter quest trader.
Things are still developing so they may make some changes to the starter quest to account for different world configurations.
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3 hours ago, Catdaddy said:
Without knowledge of the big picture, how well can one be expected to acclimate?
You can acclimate to the new situation without understanding the big picture. Companies rarely spell out the big picture publicly until they are ready to roll everything out. Them telling us about a future change without giving us a "good reason" or "the whole plan" is exactly the way things are usually done. My point was that they have graciously given us time to get used to the change with an option to continue to use the old method until some future date when the new method will be the only option. Witty guy was complaining that TFP completely screwed everyone over with a surprise change. That didn't happen. They have given us a headsup. They have not revealed all the why's at this time, true, but a modder now has the option to start figuring out how to handle the change before it happens.
3 hours ago, Catdaddy said:Just share a more complete overview of how the system will work going forward.
How do the devs anticipate that users will run multiple modded versions?
Is the workaround posted by SylenThunder intended to be a permanent solution? It does not seem very user-friendly at first glance.
You have a right to complain about the lack of information and ask for more so no argument from me on that score. We will have to see whether TFP decides to explain the reasons behind their change.
4 hours ago, Catdaddy said:It seems that you all should have expected this type of reaction when the change was announced with such a limited explanation.
We always expect some people will rage over any change. So, sure, the expectation was there. I was not expressing surprise-- or at least that wasn't what I meant to convey. I was expressing strong disapproval of someone falsely accusing the devs of surprising everyone with a sudden forced change that ruins modding and doing so in a vulgar and insulting manner. Period. The accusation was that the devs gave no warning and forced a horrible change on everyone. The truth was that we are being warned now about a future change and nobody is forced to adapt immediately. The full reasons haven't been explained although now a major reason has come out anyway.
4 hours ago, Catdaddy said:If Roland doesn't know enough to agree or disagree, how do you expect the rest of us to wrap our heads around it?
Agree or disagree about the technical ramifications of the change. I've dabbled with modding but that doesn't mean I'm an expert on all of this. If I don't know enough to agree or disagree and am willing to be patient until more is known then why can't the rest of you? I like using mods and I like having multiple versions of 7 Days loaded at once so I have some worries but if a method emerges that makes it still possible then I'll follow directions to figure it out same as I did when I originally had no idea how to apply mods to this game and followed directions to figure it out. We don't know what TFP is going to do to support modding officially and how easy they will make it to apply mods in the future. People who are getting upset are assuming the worst possible outcomes and then getting mad like that is the truth.
4 hours ago, Catdaddy said:This controversy can be blamed on low information. We have been told just enough to give concern, but not enough to form a well-reasoned complaint. Bad PR, IMO.
My prediction is that once Steam Workshop is introduced, it will become the only way to mod without the extra steps explained in the "workaround" and, unless using that method, we will be limited to one modded version. This is the kind of speculation you will get when you leave folks wondering...
Sure. Understood. We didn't spill all of our information to the public all at once and that leads to speculation. But the type of speculation that people make says more about them than it does about TFP. We know that TFP plans to officially support modding and we know that they are planning to change the location of where the mod folder is going to go. If you want to speculate doom and gloom that's on you. But it is self-inflicted pain. I haven't posted a single thing against any of the speculative wonderings on here. Some seem hopeful that things will turn out, some seem convinced the end of any meaningful modding is coming and I'm happy to let the whole spectrum of thought to be given voice.
But...posting that TFP has already forced this change as a surprise with no time to get ready and adapt and figure things out is blatantly wrong and THAT is what I entered the conversation to correct-- not to stop people from wondering what the future will hold.
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27 minutes ago, Brugas said:
This was a huge dump on the community. Not sure who all was involved but The Fun Pimps definitely should've known better.
The very least you could do was announce these planned changes for mods so that everyone could expect it, take precautions and be ready for it.
What do you call introducing it as they did where modders can choose to use either location and telling them that in the future the old way will be phased out?
Announced planned changes. Check.
Allow a period of time where it isn’t forced so that modders can expect it, take precautions, and be ready for it. Check.
I don’t know enough to agree or disagree with what they have chosen to do but just from the way they announced it and are giving everyone a grace period to acclimate to it makes your statement sound pretty ignorant.
27 minutes ago, Brugas said:As it is, it's like surprise anal sex from The Fun Pimps...
I think you’ve been waiting awhile to use that line and so even though it doesn’t fit the situation at all you just threw it in to stop your itch…I hope that the change will be weathered and not be too much of a disruption. People who assume that the change is coming because TFP is antagonistic towards the modding community are way off base.
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Hail yeah!
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April 2022
- File pathways consolidated in A20.4 to comply with Microsoft Game Pass requirements
- TFP officially announces early work begun on new console version
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Shouldn't as long as the devs aren't out of their depth
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24 minutes ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:
That was based on if, and what other people seemed to think, not what I think.
Toddle off back to Orwells 1984 and leave me to my own thoughts thanks 🤷🏻♂️
Speaking of Orwell - seems like yours is a post straight out of The Ministry of Truth - since my original response was:
'What's this? It obviously can't be an April fools joke - not on the 2nd of April anyway...'
Passing comment opened with a question, not an assertion, and a reasonable suspicion of it not being a joke, something you ironically laugh at; using my second comment (in response to another user stating it was an April the 1st post) as me taking it as a joke, but ommitting my initial response as seeing it as not a joke.
Lol.
okay..okay... Your indifference has overwhelmed me....
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6 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:
Erm, yeah - except I didn't fall for anything and I am genuinely confused about the post...
So I have no idea what you're laughing at.
I'm laughing at this:
17 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:Yes it is artwork, but being a joke, why is it included on a development diary frontpage?
That is you stating that you thought it was just a joke when in fact it was not a joke.
6 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:That's to be indifferent to whether its a joke or not, thus not invested in either it is or it isn't, thus not in a position to have fallen for anything.
Whatever...if it helps you to deny that you thought it was a joke and felt annoyed and confused by it enough to ask why it was included in the gallery being that you thought it was a joke-- and now you want to claim "indifference"....fine. There were plenty on twitter dismissing it as just a joke post besides you.
But whether we caught you specifically or not, the April fools joke this year was a reverse joke. Sharp Sticks Magazine is real and it does affect gameplay. How it affects gameplay will have to wait until the devs are ready to reveal.
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10 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:
Why is the April Fail of the sharp sticks; an out of date joke that only some would get, even on there? Yes it is artwork, but being a joke, why is it included on a development diary frontpage?
Because the TRUE April fools joke was to post something on the day that was really truly real and have people think it was just a joke. And you fell for it hook line and sinker. 😂There is nothing in the gallery that isn’t in the game which goes for the police car as well. It’s in there too but it isn’t driveable. 😄
Madmole is busy working on one of the next big A21 reveals (may God have mercy on our souls)…11 -
6 hours ago, Jost Amman said:
What does that mean practically?
Is it a way to reduce glitching through blocks? Or is it a way to improve the effectiveness of the zombie AI to breach our defenses? Or something else...?
The devs spent days watching Twitch and Youtube and then spent weeks coming up with this fix to ruin the newest base strategies. It's all they do, you know...
2 hours ago, Star69 said:Can anyone say whether random events are still on the table or has it gone the way of the ziplines?
The twitch integration feature is the forerunner of the random event system-- meaning that the jury is still out. It isn't cancelled per se but it will come down to time and resources if they decide to go forward with fully developing the twitch integration into a proper random event manager. Think of it like Secrets of Dumbledore...they could just call that movie a wrap for the series or they could go on to make two more depending on how it does.
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19 hours ago, Blake_ said:
6- Can we see a sexy brand-new WIP screenshot of bandit in progress?
Here's a Bandit video just for you Blake!
Spoiler5
20.4 new mod folder location
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Roland (see edit history)
I think these guys wanted a warning about the warning. But of course then they would have ranted about that and demanded a warning about the warning for the warning. Man, TFP just should have included a warning about this back in 2013 as one of the kickstarter stretch goals....
Edit: lol…this joke is catching so many thumbs down. Too soon I guess? The crisis is over guys. Relax.