Roland
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Posts posted by Roland
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3 hours ago, Victor.19 said:
@RolandCan you tell us what the team's been working on lately?
Just perusing the work log and keeping things general it looks like
Bandits
Bandit POIs
Water
Ragdoll physics
Optimizations and fixes to various systems
Dismemberment
Localization Fixes
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1 hour ago, ZeMayoMan said:
and if this change comes to the game, I will stop playing. It sucks the fun out.
How do you know? lol
1 hour ago, ZeMayoMan said:the new "Learn By Looting" is worse because it appears to exist for no reason other than to artificially slow the player's progression down. The current system of magazine series and perks is great because it allows the player to determine what direction they want their build to take - and the idea of only progressing by looting (which is only one of many activities to do in the game) is just silly.
This is the exact argument that people who loved Learn by Doing made about the current system of book series and perks. They accused TFP of artificially slowing the progression down with the silly new system that "nobody asked for". Now you say the current system is the best and the new changes are only to slow people down and is silly.
As to the "silly" argument, it actually makes perfect sense that you can learn how to do things better by gleaning information that you find through scavenging. It may not sound like a fun prospect exploring POIs and opening boxes and cupboards and bookshelves etc but it is definitely a plausible mechanic to represent gaining knowledge. Lots of people complained about the current system making no sense that you could learn how to make a better pickaxe by spending points that were earned by killing zombies. They called that "silly". It never really bothered me but at least I can recognize that on the silly meter the current system is definitely sillier than the one we will be getting.
1 hour ago, ZeMayoMan said:It also means that players are now fighting for loot instead of playing cooperatively because the only way to progress is hogging the loot, and we need to do insane amounts of looting to find all the new magazines.
They don't have to fight for loot any more than they did before. The magazines are ONLY for learning recipes. Does everyone have to be able to craft all recipes or can you split up the recipes and allow a friend to craft things for you? Seems like it could inspire selfishness fighting and a-holery if that is the type of people you play with...or...it could inspire planning and sharing and division of crafting. Basically, it will be the same thing that occurs now with teams that actually use teamwork when someone finds a weapon that they know someone else perked into. That person could hand over the weapon or hog it for their self.
1 hour ago, ZeMayoMan said:For example, requiring the player to have a perk to craft an item is a fun limitation because it allows a gradual power progression and creates goals to work towards. The player can achieve these goals in many ways - killing zombies, looting, doing quests, building, farming, etc. You've now made it so that any time not spent looting is wasted time in the eyes of the game.
There is still a gradual power progression through the perks. You get better at using your tools and weapons through the perks and those goals can be achieved through all those myriad ways you mentioned. Knowledge of how to craft is now going to be handled through discovery of old world writings that you find, buy, or gain from quests. There is still plenty of variety of actions and goals you can take.
As for time not spent looting being wasted time in the eyes of the game-- that is bull. The game's difficulty curve is not nearly so fast or unforgiving that you MUST optimize to the level that such a statement implies. You can loot less and learn recipes a bit slower and still successfully survive. You can farm and build with orange and yellow level tools and still successfully survive and keep up with the progression that the game world takes vs you. The idea that unless you spend every moment in the game looting or it is wasted time does not come from the game. It comes from within the minds of gamers who focus too much on optimizing beyond what is necessary to be successful.
1 hour ago, ZeMayoMan said:I really don't understand why we keep reworking systems in the game that have been reworked 2 or 3 times before already? But then maybe that's why the game is still in alpha after 8 years...
That is exactly why it is still in alpha. That is what the alpha designation is for and when you bought the game, the fact that it was Early Access was not hidden or unexplained. Besides, if you just started playing in Alpha 20 then you have never experienced any changes so why do you care about what changes happened before you ever played? Alpha 21 will be your very first time experiencing any kind of change. You can't believably complain about development fatigue when you just barely started and have yet to even go through a major alpha update for the very first time...haha
2 hours ago, ZeMayoMan said:I agree with the previous poster - it feels like EA syndrome - "we know what you find fun better than you do." It's never to late to walk back a bad decision - please avoid the sunk cost fallacy and revert the changes to skills. It's okay to experiment with changes or toss around new ideas, but don't commit to a bad decision just because you've already invested time and effort into it. Seriously, it's *good* that you're trying new things and always looking for ways to improve - it would be bad if you weren't. But sometimes an idea just isn't what's best for the game, and you have to not be afraid to toss it.
I'm thinking "EA syndrome" is actually more like people who purchase a game in EA but either don't understand it or don't really believe it and start acting as though the game is a finished released product and react to development woes from an overly angry, worried, and/or entitled way. Let's say that you are right and this change is a huge mistake and needs to be walked back. Even if that is the case, they will not do it before it releases in A21 and they get feedback from the players. That's because we are in Early Access and our role is to play unfinished versions of the game and the developers can then make their decisions on whether something needs to be walked back or not. They walked back LBD after observing a couple years of gameplay and there was no sunk cost fallacy to be seen. They will walk back this decision as well if they deem it necessary but not before employing the change and observing. You seem to be coming from a perspective that this change is like a DLC for a finished game and TFP should not make the mistake of releasing it but the reality is that this is a development action for an unfinished game and we are going to test it (those of us who don't quit) and TFP is going to decide later whether this is the final version or if something else is. It's interesting that you encourage them to not be afraid to toss it while you seem to be afraid to even test it for yourself and your group and see what comes of it. I'd say to you, "Don't be afraid to test it to see what happens and how it affects your group for the good of the game. Rather than just quit playing at the prospect, try it out and give your feedback based on playtesting instead of speculating who in your group might hog all the magazines."
2 hours ago, ZeMayoMan said:I post this not because I'm angry or anything, I just know that I really enjoy the game and I want to keep playing it - I don't want the game I love to become unenjoyable for me, which is what this change is going to do. The system we have is really cool and I really like it, I really hope we can just keep it so I can continue to enjoy the game.
I get it. Nobody wants to lose what they currently love and there is a real risk of that happening. I wouldn't agree that it is a foregone conclusion. I think you should try it first. No matter what, it is coming in A21 because this is an early access game in alpha development. Honestly, expecting a game in active development to just stay the same is an unrealistic take. It is always a risk to purchase a game before it is finalized because you can't know if you will end up enjoying the final version.
40 minutes ago, ZeMayoMan said:It's possible that I'm wrong about all of this and that the new system will be fine. But we're all here to weigh in with opinions and give feedback. This is mine.
Well this is what you should have led with, honestly. I'm glad you are posting your misgivings and doubts and you should continue to do so as long as you can admit that anyone who hasn't actually played with it is just speculating and could be wrong. There really is no chance of talking the devs out of developing their game for us to test and try at each new update. Once we've played with it we can certainly weigh in and there have been times the devs have agreed with the overwhelming sentiments of the player base who come here and chime in. Other times they have stuck to their guns regardless of the feedback. It is their game and we are along for the ride. We can give input and say what we don't like but we aren't in the director's chair.
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6 hours ago, Matt115 said:
Yes this is quiet true. But if this studio with MS agreement and for example gore ( stupid but i saw few gore mods) there is a chance that lego would terminate a contract on making minecraft sets because Lego want to keep "family friendly" reputation.
I agree with that but such things are constraints that Microsoft imposes on itself in order to keep their brand mainstream. Lego doesn't tell them "Don't add gore to the game or we will pull out". Microsoft tells itself, "Let's keep the game family friendly in order to appeal to the largest segment of the market as we possibly can". They could add gore anyway and then Lego would have to decide to stay in or get out.
I bet they stay in and add little gore bit pieces that snap right to the ends of limbs...
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You are finding duplicates of the same magazine and not unique volumes in a series (like the book sets) in order to raise your skill in a particular category.
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7 minutes ago, Matt115 said:
Okay - in theory studio which is now working on MC could add more mobs etc. But it have to looks... "accetable" by diffrent companies. So they are limited by deals.
The development studio working on Minecraft is not limited by the deals that Microsoft makes with other companies to tie in with the Minecraft brand. Lego can't tell Microsoft that they can't make changes to their brand. It flows the other way actually. Microsoft dictates what Minecraft looks like and companies that license to use the Minecraft brand in their products have to make sure they conform to whatever the brand currently looks like. Microsoft could change the color and look of the Creepers tomorrow without asking permission of any company that is using the Minecraft brand. They wouldn't have to poll those companies to see if it was okay to make those changes. Rather, they could require those companies make changes to fit the new brand or lose their license to use Minecraft branding.
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9 hours ago, Splat86 said:
I love the fact that in 7 days to die, unless i'm wrong, you can do a lot of scavenging, crafting, building and so on.
Scavenging 10/10
Crafting 8/10
Building 10/10
9 hours ago, Splat86 said:I was wondering is the game multiplayer or single player, if there is a multiplayer mode/servers does it force you to be PvP?
Singleplayer PvE 9/10
Multiplayer Cooperative PvE 10/10
Multiplayer PvP 5/10
9 hours ago, Splat86 said:About the game development itself, i have noticed that the game was launched in December 2013 and to this day is in alpha stage, is that because the game's development has been slow or because the devs are really invested into shaping this game as one of the best on the genre?
Both. lol
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2 hours ago, Matt115 said:
Skyrim is moddable game by "accident" it supposed be just another tes like morrowind and oblivion by this i mean focused on lore and story with complexed gameplay --> mods exisit but this suppost be nothing "important" like in shogun 2 or sw BF2 classic. But somehow skyrim mods are much more popular that supposed
And that's 7DTD big problem
Who cares whether a game is moddable by design or by accident if the end result is that mods exist and are popular because they deliver an experiences that gamers like? The point is that Skyrim does have mods and regardless of how they came to be, players use them and extend their enjoyment of the game. The same is and will be true for 7 Days to Die and that is not a problem at all much less THE BIG PROBLEM...
2 hours ago, Matt115 said:okay you can give me example that minecraft is base for mods too. And that's would be correct but... minecraft is not game but brand - you know minecraft dungeon, books, lego sets etc so they can't add everything they want because they have to watch on lore , deals between company etc but still have a lot systems, mobs etc less that mods but... this is connected with world setting too .
This is not only wrong in theory but wrong in practice and wrong in history. Minecraft most certainly is a game and the fact that it is also a brand has zero to do with the mods that are created and used for that game. Mods extend the life of Minecraft, the game, just as they do for Skyrim and do for this game. I see no connection between the brand "minecraft" and the mods that are created for the game. Sorry, but this line of reasoning is just way out in left field and doesn't even seem to relate at all to what we are talking about in terms of mods.
2 hours ago, Matt115 said:TFP won't make 7dtd 2 and there is almost zero chances for spin off or "7dtd but with diffrent setting". So this make this even more frustrating.
100% wrong. 7dtd 2 is not going to be their next game but they definitely do have plans for a direct sequel in the future and they have also stated that they designed this game to have modular systems that they could re-use and enhance for 7dtd-like spin off games. So while there has not been an announcement for a "7dtd but with different setting" spinoff, there is definitely a higher chance than zero chance. Doing such a follow-up game is within their business model. That's not to say that they are the type of developers that are just going to crank out a 7dtd-like game every year. They are a lot more ambitious than that and they are content to allow modders to overhaul 7dtd into spin-offs or alternate settings while they turn to something new for their next project.
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4 hours ago, Matt115 said:
Honestly i think Kiernan531 point was more like : "TFP added less content that DF and their changes are worst that DF"
Thanks for your honesty. Doesn't change my answer.
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2 hours ago, Kiernan531 said:
It overall feels like a completely different, and ultimately better, game.
For you, sure. That is exactly the role of mods and especially overhaul mods. They change the experience, and anyone whose way of having fun meshes well with the changes, will feel like they are playing the best version of the game. We are very pleased that people are modding the game and others are enjoying those mods and getting an experience that matches up better with their desires. It is exactly why we have always encouraged modding.
Since you love Darkness Falls so much I'm not really certain why you care whether the crafting system for the vanilla game goes under another iteration. You obviously don't play the vanilla version any longer so is it just that you don't like seeing others playing those changes as you watch from afar?
As to your concerns, I can assure you that the perks are being changed to allow for the loss of crafting from their benefits. They will not remain the same as they have been but just minus the crafting recipes. As for the time and the journey of developing your character and learning the recipes, the pace of that process is going to appeal differently to everyone. Some people really enjoy a slow progression where you start out with primitive materials and build primitive bases making do with what you have until sometime later in the game the best materials are available and you have all the best tools. This change will be great for them because they will just play the game and over the course of game weeks will get better and better and be able to do more and more. Others like a faster pace and want to get started on their final mega-base as soon as possible and feel like they can't really get started until they have the best equipment and are max perked in the right categories.
So, yes, it is going to take a lot of time and a lot of magazines to completely max out and if you are the type that doesn't like to start playing until after you've maxed yourself out, then either simply use the creative menu to get yourself all the mags you need to enjoy the game or play a mod that increases the pacing and method of getting kitted out quickly so you can start your mega base sooner.
Since you love mods anyway and aren't shy about using them, whatever the vanilla game does or does not do really has very little effect on you. Peace. Play Darkness Falls and ignore the change.
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4 hours ago, Zeal said:
I am not sure if this is a proper place to ask, but i had been watching JaWoodle's "city" challenge. And so would like to ask, if there will be plans to add a "One type" world option without going into the XML files so that traders can spawn with the map. basically checking the type you want the whole world to be. If nothing else, hope this gets thought of for a later Alpha.
In A21, when you generate a world, you can set one biome to 100% and the the others to 0% to achieve this.2 -
43 minutes ago, P3rf3ctVZer0 said:
This solution sucks.
But, you do what you can until/if the devs do something on their end.0 -
4 hours ago, Laz Man said:
There are some potential consequences...😁
I vote we have Rolland try wrenching it...😁
Hey, I'm game. After all, as of A20.5 mines can be picked up using your wrench so there needs to be something to replace that joke.
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(Ramethzer0 is running for president of the Roland Fanclub)
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34 minutes ago, Man with a hat said:
You will never ever win an argument against Roland
oh contraire...did you not read the thread. He did win an argument up above and I admitted I was wrong.
We disagreed on what we think is fun, but all of his points and his arguments are still there for anyone to read and so are mine. What's wrong with having opposing viewpoints on display for people to read and decide what they agree and disagree with? You agree with him, obviously, and you were able to do so because this forum allows for constructive criticism to be posted. It also allows for people to disagree and make their counter arguments.
Allowing a thread to have criticism and then not allow anyone to disagree with that criticism is what you are asking for and that isn't the way a forum works.
34 minutes ago, Man with a hat said:This forum is for fanboyz, not for critics, not even for constructive crticism.
lol...Same thing you said last year. See you next year.
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28 minutes ago, LagunaFox said:
Now then, I apologize for the double post but I really want to say that I love this idea. I've always had a bone to pick with the way crafting weapons works in this game honestly (I started with alpha 19 myself but I do have nearly 1,000 hours in the game at this point). I always hated that you can just go kill 1,000 zombies, level up and spend the perk point to improve something that will let you craft better weapons. I'm sorry but killing zombies does not make the knowledge on how to make a better gun just pop in your head, it doesn't work like that lol.
The old learning by doing system had potential and I played the Darkness Falls mod at least in part because I wanted to experience that system but I ultimately found that it was very resource intensive, mostly the resource of time - it took forever to upgrade skill levels that way by doing very tedious work. I think this new system is the most logical, realistic and immersive system that you could use honestly. If civilization ended tomorrow most of us wouldn't have any idea how to build a gun or maintain it, however we can read so all we need is to find a set of instructions.
Thanks for coming out of lurking. Hope you continue to post
The new system isn't going to remove the feeling of killing zombies and then getting better at farming (for example). You will still earn xp for killing zombies which will poop out skill points when you level up which you can then use to better yourself at things that have nothing to do with killing zombies. The best solution for that is to play the game without specifically trying to grind for xp doing just one activity that seems to be the best generator. If you focus on doing some of everything then the skill points feel like a general reward for being a well rounded survivor and then there isn't that feeling of disconnect between how you get the points and what you spend on them.
But I agree that where crafting is concerned the new system really delivers on giving you the feeling that you are learning to craft better by finding and piecing together old world knowledge which is definitely better than kill zombies -->make better shovel.
28 minutes ago, LagunaFox said:I also hated that some gun schematics were entirely pointless. Like why does the ak schematic even exist? If you are going to be making an ak you are going to be putting points into the machine gunner perk to create higher quality guns and the very first perk point you put into machine gunner automatically unlocks ak crafting anyway. There is literally no point in that schematic existing what so ever, same can be said for the pistol schematic or the double barrel shotgun schematic.
Yeah weird...There were no pipe weapons before A20 so perhaps they thought that if someone who didn't plan to perk into machine guns found an AK47 recipe early and could craft one for themselves it would be pretty cool and a nice alternative to the primitive bow or blunderbus. But I agree that finding one outside of the first week or so is probably pointless.
28 minutes ago, LagunaFox said:On the other hand I'm worried that this means you'll never get magazines for weapon classes that you aren't putting perk points into making it a little harder to have a good variety of weapons that use all the ammo types in the game.
Don't worry. If anything you will wonder whether the perk boost is actually helping you because you get such a mixture of so many different magazines...
28 minutes ago, LagunaFox said:I think overall this will be an excellent addition to the game but I really hope we don't have a ton of really badly balanced versions of this initially or it will put a lot of people off on the system entirely. First impressions do matter a fair bit so I hope a lot of time and effort goes into finding the right balance for this system in terms of drops and how they scale with the pace of leveling up and increasing difficulty as we players progress through the game.
We'll see
Things will definitely be spicy after A21 releases because everyone who suspected they wouldn't like and then try it and don't like it will come back to give their feedback.
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2 hours ago, Guppycur said:
Another thing I'm wholly interested in is upgrading workbenches by placing bench addon's nearby; I know we used to be able to upgrade workbenches by adding things like a crucible and whatnot, have y'all put any consideration into workbench upgrades by proximity?
This is something I absolutely love about Valheim. You upgrade your workstation and decorate your shop at the same time. Terraria also does this. It is very satisfying. I hope TFP considers this strongly for their next game if it even has craft stations.
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1 hour ago, RipClaw said:
That is not entirely true. Only T2 items, T3 items, clothing and mods require schematics or books. Everything else can also be unlocked via skills. This includes all workbenches, all traps, all vehicles, all seeds, all T1 items, and most cooking recipes and some drugs. That's a lot.
You are correct. There is a lot in general but not all of those are really things that must be crafted if all you care about is building and mining.
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Dibs on Master!
Go ban some spambots Darth Mega! It is inevitable.
9 hours ago, No_Name_Idea said:Meh, I figure we'll never agree because we apparently consider different things as "fun". I guess there ain't no point in going against 2 mods since the idea will never get considered regardless.
At this point we're arguing about highly subjective things anyway. I still think that removing dmg+ would be good, but I guess I'm a minority here.Keep bringing it up when the topic comes up. You never know. I have been arguing for food spoilage, tool degradation, actual death penalties, and zip lines for years and have bupkiss to show for it. They teased me with ziplines for a moment but pulled the rug out from under me and laughed. Everybody laughed...
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6 hours ago, Mad_Dane said:
Either you go questing and looting or you play the rest of the game with a T1 stone axe and bow.
That is just not true. How are you getting the motor tools now, may I ask? There is no perk that grants the recipe for those. Really, the only change is for the primitive level tools and a few other recipes. Most craft recipes have had to be found or purchased for years now. How are you avoiding using a stone axe and primitive bow for the whole game right now because it will be the same way you avoid it in A21.
6 hours ago, Mad_Dane said:Building in a voxel engine is what makes this game special, there is much much better survival games out there!
Forcing everyone to go loot completely defeats the purpose of making an open world game!If you don't care for the survival aspect of the game then what do you have against enabling the creative menu? If you enjoy harvesting and crafting all the materials yourself you can at least give yourself the best tools right from the start. You've just admitted that if you want to play survival you will play something else and you only play this game for the building aspect. That's what the creative menu is for. Our level designers who create POIs for the game use the creative menu where they can do huge builds and have every decoration and every block type and every texture available to them. That is the freedom you probably desire.
An open world game doesn't mean there are no rules or restrictions. It means you aren't on rails shooting at stuff or following a predetermined path. You can go anywhere and in this game break most anything. This game has always had looting and it has always been an important part. It would be like buying a racing game but you don't like racing your car, you like working on it. But it is a racing game and so the developers add a rule that the best rewards and access to new cars comes from placing in races. So you complain that you are being forced to race when what you want to do is stay in the garage and tinker with your car but now you're mad that you'll be forced to go out and race.....in a racing game.
Like it or not this is a crafting and looting game. If all you want is a sandbox to build in then that mode is enabled as soon as you turn on the creative menu. Without the creative menu this is a game with rules that carry restrictions first and foremost with sandbox elements.
6 hours ago, Mad_Dane said:And in case that went over your head, I like building big VERY big and it's simply not feasible to do solo, before you have motor tools, harvesting skills and all workstations, with the slowed down progress (From when you killed learning by doing), I already needed to spend upwards of 300 hours in a single seed to make a large build and now you want to slow it down again, by forcing me to go loot 2000 magazines before I can even get started building big!
No you don't. You are choosing to do stuff you hate in order to get to the point where you can do stuff that you love. Turn on the creative menu and you can start from Day one doing the stuff that you love. Why not try it? You've stated now in this and responses below how much you hate the survival game aspect of 7 Days to Die. Well, nobody is forcing you to partake in that despite what you claim. You have the freedom to toggle one single option in the top menu and everything you love about this game will be emphasized and everything you hate will be gone and it really will be a true sandbox.
Finally, learn by doing would have been the slower progression for you. The only way to improve your building and tool stats would have been to use them and that's it. In the common pool method we currently have you earn xp from everything you do and all the points you earn can be funneled into the improvements you care about. Help defend on bloodmoon night and gain 4 skillpoints? Those can all be spent on building skills whereas with learn by doing nothing from horde night would have applied in the least to your favorite activity. But regardless, it is pretty ridiculous that you have been steaming about having to spend 300 hours of each playthrough doing stuff you find annoying for the past few years when you could have skipped those annoying hours and just been doing what you enjoy. Why torture yourself when the freedom to play how you want is one option away?
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3 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
As far as I know, there are frequent discussions between the development team members on all development choices.
Of course, the word of the "founding members" has its weight, but are you sure it works like you describe?
Have you got any insider info that we don't know of?
Well it's not only whether it is just Madmole calling all the shots or not. It's also whether there really is just one way to play or not. What is this one way that people are forced into? How does Mad Dane want to play that they used to be able to do but can't anymore? I still feel like there are a lot of different ways to play the game. You just have to choose to do it.
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28 minutes ago, sloejack said:
This change (A21) appears to remove the common building blocks of character development and throws it all at (weighted) RNG based on a path selection. This makes magazines more important to being able to play the game than they currently are and by extension increases the luck factor of the game. If it's weighted so heavy as to effectively grant the same capabilities by forcing the magazines that drive the same progression onto you then the value of the change is just change for change's sake.
But it is limited to learning recipes. You are not improving your skills by random means. In A20, if you take miner 69er and mother lode, for example, they improved your block damage and increased the yields you got from harvesting as well as grant you recipes to craft higher tier tools. In A21, if you take miner 69er and mother lode you will still improve your block damage and increase the yields you get from harvesting and probably 69er will be the one to give a slight boost to finding tool magazines in loot. The skill will just not unlock recipes any more.
But there are lots of ways to get higher tier tools. Someone else can craft one for you. Someone can bring you back one that they found in loot. You can buy one at the trader. However you get your tools, you will deterministically be able to control how skilled you are with them just like A20. The only thing you won't be able to do is craft them yourself until you read enough magazines.
So in looking at the perks is the common building blocks of character development the number of recipes we know or is it the abilities and skills we gain from perks. Remember that all of the tier 2 and tier 3 recipes were learned by looting in A20 already. So the new method is really just a step forward from that. We are learning recipes from schematics but in little bits at a time instead of all at once from one schematic. But I'd say that if your team was able to function when recipes were learned by acquiring schematics they will be able to adapt to recipes being learned by acquiring magazines. Non-looters will still be able to perk up their skills just like normal and be reliant upon team mates to share with them the tools and such that they find just like happens now.
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5 hours ago, Laz Man said:
Edit: I imagine this would improve multiplayer as well as it introduces another commodity to seek/trade/sell amongst each other.
As long as the team isn't dysfunctional-- bullying each other over what containers are opened by whom or selfishly racing ahead of each other to open whatever they can for themselves and arguing over who gets what. The game is rated MA after all and that doesn't have to refer only to violence, gore, sex,
drugs...er...candy, and profanity.1 -
5 hours ago, Old Crow said:
No., This is a horrible idea.
Why? You obtain a tool and it lasts forever so you never craft another and all others found of same or lower quality are useless. Attachments that extend durability are meaningless. Parts accumulate that you never will need and finding those parts are ho-hum. That tool crafting recipe is useless. You will never need to craft that recipe. Once you have the best there is no more "use whatever is available and survive" type of gameplay.
OTH, you obtain a tool and use it until it is used up and cannot be repaired. You scrap it for parts and now gaining a replacement is relevant. Finding a duplicate tool is something you save until your current one breaks. Parts are useful the entire game. Mods that extend the durability of tools are valuable and useful. You may end up using your crafting skill several times over the course of the game. Even once you obtain the best, eventually it will be gone and you will be back to that "make do with what you've got" type of gameplay until you can craft a replacement.
In every single way finite tools are better than infinite tools for how this game works with looting, crafting, and attachments. Lots of games have this mechanic as well so it can't really be that horrible of an idea. I understand that you don't like permanently degrading tools but the design is sound and as noted above makes other features of the game more meaningful.
5 hours ago, Old Crow said:If you would rather scrap your hard-earned tools instead of repairing them, fine.
haha..I'd rather use my hard-earned tools until they are used up and then hard earn another one. That whole process of earning the tool is fun, no? Its part of the gameplay and personal objectives we have. You spent weeks in game anticipating and working towards getting that great tool. Once it finally wears down and is gone you get to experience that journey again to get another one though it will probably be easier this time.
Plus, its not really the hard-earned tools that are the problem. Its the lucky non-earned find in the first week of a tool that lets you permanently skip and invalidate a whole swath of recipes and progressive gameplay. If tools are finite then its okay if you get an awesome blue steel pickaxe from a truck in the wasteland during the first week. You'll use it but eventually it will be gone and then you'll still be glad when a yellow steel pickaxe drops into your lap instead of nonplussed.
5 hours ago, Old Crow said:Don't force that garbage on the rest of us.
LMAO....yes, one suggestion posted on the forums equals forcing everyone to play my way. Fine fine fine....I take back my suggestion. You are free to resume playing the way you want. The crushing grip of my idle proposal is loosed. I relinquish my voodoo power and grant you license to continue repairing your tools.
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2 hours ago, Vintorez said:
but the new system assumes that every player will be looting
I think you and others are assuming a stronger perk boost to magazines than exists. Even perked into a couple of skills that match magazines you still find a wide variety of magazines. The boost is really more of a safety net against never finding the magazines that you really want. I'm not against an option to merge allies' perk boosts into one team boost for anyone that loots. I just don't really think it is as necessary as some are worrying it is. You have no idea whether there will be any significant disadvantage for those who don't loot and rely on their friends to bring back what they need-- you are just afraid that might be the case. If someone is out looting and finds 3 magazines that align with what the person is home building wants and 4 magazines for themselves at the end of the day then there isn't really that large of a disadvantage. I think teams will know more after actually playing with it how it will affect their dynamics. I guess the big question remains, how often were people crafting the weapons they perked into anyway? They spent their perks in their chosen specialization but was that to get the bonuses for the weapon or so they could craft it? I guess if they always crafted their own weapons then this is going to be a big change for them but if they usually had someone on their team offer to buy them their weapon of choice they just saw at the trader or found in a treasure room or received as a quest reward then there will be no real difference for them. They will still be able to use the skill points they earned by building and mining to improve their skill in their weapon.
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Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow
in General Discussion
Posted
This is a huge point that people should realize about A20 and A19. I know it isn't just me and Gideon because we have had many threads about the fact that crafting has taken a back seat to looting and trading because you can so often find better gear than you can currently craft. From what I have played of A21 so far I am crafting a lot more because more often I can craft things at a higher level than I can find them or buy them.
Now, I enjoy exploring and scavenging and clearing POIs. So it makes sense that I'm going to find mags and be able to craft more things at a higher level than what I'm finding. But if someone else doesn't and all they want to do is build and mine then their lootstage will still go up as they level from all the experience they get doing what they want to do and they'll surely find and be able to purchase equipment at the same levels they currently are getting in A20 and crafting will continue to take a back seat to the same degree it does currently just like in A20.
So if you like to loot and you increase your looting in A21 you will notice that crafting is a more significant part of the game for you more than A20 and A19
If you hate to loot and avoid it then you will notice that crafting has about the same significance as A20 and A19 and you will rarely craft and mostly find and buy your gear.
If you are one of those players who likes to do it all and you don't increase your looting you will still notice that you can often craft things at a higher tier than anything you've found or that the trader has available to buy. You'll still get lucky and find loot that is better than you what you can craft at times.