Roland

Wait…where was the puzzle…?

Thanks. They are already named, have their own icons, and are fully operational. We will see how close your names end up being to the actual ones.

The dew collector recipe becomes available on I think your 3rd Forge Ahead magazine. Then it just depends on how quickly you can get the materials to craft it. I'd say that Day 3-4 is a good average to have one dew collector in place. One dew collector will still require the player to make choices about how best to use the water they have. It won't get to the way it is in A20 until you have multiple dew collectors-- and that's fine, in my opinion. The goal isn't to keep water being a struggle forever, it is to create a progression from no water to all water needs solved. The changes to A21 make that journey an interesting one based on my own experience.

If I misrepresented your arguments then I'm sorry. If I came at you too intensely and with a disrespectful attitude I apologize. I get that you love the game. I get that you are worried about some of the announced features of A21. There are some oft repeated accusations leveled at TFP that are not fair or truthful and when you mentioned a couple of them, it became my focus to show how they are false. I probably went too nuclear in that regard.

No. It’s the best deal on the planet.

Well if the "how" was poorly delivered then I apologize. Again, my focus is on the misinformation and not on the person delivering it. I've gone back to look at anywhere where I attacked the person instead of the idea or concept and I'm not finding it. But maybe someone can point it out to me. Remember that someone can "see red" also when they can't make a compelling argument and get shut down....it isn't just because they've been attacked personally. There are people who come here desiring information and wanting to understand how it all works. They ask questions and give us the benefit of the doubt when we answer. Then there are people who come here who have already decided for themselves how it all works and they don't desire any information. They just want to push their opinions and assumptions and conjectures about how they think it works. Sure, they are going to see red if someone from the company pokes holes in those assumptions. This isn't really even about Shado47. He is just repeating the same speculations that you can read on Steam, Reddit, and Twitter. They are speculations based on cynisms and assumptions that the worst possible motives must be the reasons for why things happen. What? The game has been in early access for 9 years? Well then they are obviously milking it. What? They've changed how crafting works? Well then they obviously don't have a plan or are completely lost or incompetent. What? Bandits have been delayed to A22? Well they are obviously out of their depth so if bandits ever do come they'll be zombies with guns and that's it. These arguments are repeated and pretty soon assumed as the only truth. Do they come here and ask you or I or anyone who actually knows the answers, "Hey Laz, why has the game been in early access so long?" or "Why is 7 Days to Die using early access so differently than other studios?" No, they come here and just state like its a fact that the devs are milking early access (somehow?) and when their insult gets challenged they see red. Instead of thinking, "Huh, maybe all that speculation I've been reading is just a bunch of guessing of motives by random cynics but now I have an explanation from someone actually in the company", they just get mad and cling to those guesses like its gospel. Anyway...I'll back off. I have laid out TFP's side. People have to decide if I'm being honest or if I'm just spinning talking points to make the company look good. Its easy to believe the worst in a person or a company. I've worked with the TFP guys now for about seven years and they are a great group of people. Anyone who knows Rick would never accuse him of simply milking early access for whatever benefit that supposedly gives companies. Anyone who sees the talented people we have on staff and the things that they are working on now would not assume they're out of their depth or lost or flubbing around just doing and redoing the same things because they need to avoid the hard stuff. I know for a fact that these doom and gloomers that try to cast the motives and plans of TFP in a bad light are just....wrong. Good customer service though. You're the good cop. You won't get showcased on streams that way though...

I’m sorry you see it that way. You eventually clarified what you meant but not until I pressed you on it. All you stated was that TFP completely redesigns feature from scratch. Maybe you didn’t think that was an important part of your message but I did and I wanted to snuff out that misinformation. I never said that. I said people who haven’t played A21 can’t fully grasp the changes simply by reading text about it. You already brought this up and I already corrected you on it. Where did I ever say that or even imply it? You’ve mentioned your love of the game in several of your posts. I believe you. what makes you think my tone is condescending? How do you know? I’m not striving for it. A bit of flippancy yes but that’s all. where is the contradiction about Early Access. If you don’t want to point it out maybe someone else will? I have kept my comments squarely on the statements you’ve been making. I haven’t attacked you personally at all. You are the one who keeps throwing insults at me— that I can’t read between the lines, I’ve got a God complex, I can’t figure out what any reasonable reader could, etc. I’ve been ignoring all of that to stick to the issues you brought up. Im glad you feel people here are supporting you. Im sorry you think Im attacking you. Im not—just some of the points you’ve raised that I feel are important to debunk. Say what? If I was really that type of a person do you think you could have said any of this about me and it would remain? You love the game but you came here already aggressive from the start. I took issue with several of your initial statements and it has been you becoming more and more upset. Not me. Why not accept the corrections I have made. Why not believe that I know what I’m talking about? Why instead call me names and disparage me so that you can just reject what I’ve stated? A child? Not at all. I’ve been addressing you like I’m someone who has the facts but you want to treat me as someone who just has an inflated opinion. You don’t think I know what I’m talking about so it makes you angry that I act like I do. At least that’s what it seems like. That is just my opinion as I don’t know you and can only go off of what you say. You began this whole thing by exaggerating your own claims by your own admission. That exaggeration was perhaps the gasoline for the dumpster fire. Maybe leave the accelerants at home next time? 😀

So lets look at another false assumption that is often brought up (You don't have to answer Shado47, I'm using your statement as an example): What does this even mean to milk the Early Access tag? Is the Early Access tag a badge of honor that adds prestige to a game in the eyes of some gamers? Is is a shield behind which developers hide so they don't have to fix bugs? Is it simply a descriptor of games that aren't considered finished? What does TFP gain by keeping the game in Early Access? Why not release and then continue development as DLC updates post release? I think the problem comes down to how a person views Early Access. A lot of people are suspicious of it and think that it is just a marketing scheme for some soft crowd funding. Is remaining in Early Access really a huge benefit that a studio can "milk" perpetually? I invite everyone to go look at Subnautica on steamlists and look at what happened when they announced they were leaving early access and releasing as a final game. Look at that spike and then tell me that remaining in EA is the real benefit. If TFP was really about manipulating EA and using it to market themselves they would have left it back when they released the console version and reaped the benefits of their coming out event. Of course, then people would notice the game isn't really done... I can tell you as a fact that TFP is using Early Access the way it is intended. They are not hiding from reports of buggy gameplay. Their development, bug fixing, optimizing has been constant these past 9 years. Remaining in Early Access until the game is truly and fully done is the right thing to do.

I have been completely straightforward with what I know to be true being on staff with TFP. I have given facts about how Crafting was changed and I am asking questions to give you an opportunity to clarify and make your point known. You have been exaggerating for effect and making assumptions and guesses about TFP's practices and procedures. I'm not sure what you mean by "kindergarten level techniques to "win" a debate" but I'm guessing snidely telling someone they can't read between the lines (AKA you're too dumb to comprehend) is probably something like what you are accusing me of doing. Yet where did I do that? I'm not trying to win the debate just to win. It is important that an accurate view of the development of 7 Days to Die forms the basis of any discussion. You came here already assuming things that are factually not true. So how can there be constructive discourse until the foundation it is going to be based on is settled? Yet you refuse to listen. You would rather hold tight to your assumptions as an outsider than listen to facts from an insider. You started off saying that I was being condescending. What I was actually being was authoritative on "How TFP develops" but maybe you thought I was just giving my own opinion and making out to be like my opinions are more valid than your opinions-- hence, condescending. But if you have opinions based on erroneous assumptions and then have the opportunity to learn actual facts from someone who is privvy to what has been going on why not set your old beliefs aside and actually listen and learn the truth? You don't trust my word? You don't believe I'm actually on staff? You don't want to know the truth? Fine. Take the ball and go home.

You are correct that your slight exaggeration doesn't invalidate your claim. It is your inability to produce an actual example that does. I already showed how we started with grid crafting where you had to from memory fill in the grid spaces correctly and then that was changed to grid crafting but with a searchable list and when you selected the item you wanted to to craft from the list the grid would auto fill and then that was changed to simply using list crafting without the grid. By time we got to the list style crafting the game was practically using list style crafting with just a grid visual. Nobody was filling in the grid any more. They collected the number of each needed material, searched the list, and clicked on the name. Then the grid filled automatically and people clicked on the craft button to start the process. It was definitely an evolution of small steps and not some huge sudden change where just a bit of the old code was carried over. The only example you've given me so far is (without exaggeration on my part) not the tiniest bit representative of completely starting over. It is an example of how features in 7 Days to Die have evolved over time-- and perhaps to people who don't follow the development religiously it may seem suddenly totally different since they skipped a few iterations while playing DayZ or something. You are the one who started with the premise that the Pimps are frequently restarting features from scratch and completely changing them into something else. I think that is a false premise. I think your actual premise is that you believe that a video game studio should figure out what they want to do and implement that and not change it. You can correct me if I'm wrong but you've already posted at least twice the sentiment that TFP should hold on to features and get them in their best form before releasing them rather than their "good enough" form. lol...You've already admitted that you were exaggerating your claims on purpose and now you expect people to understand what you actually meant when you were purposely misleading us on your meaning in order to drive home a point? What is the point you were trying to make, btw, that needed you to mischaracterize the way features have been developed? Since TFP is constantly completely redoing features from scratch.... _______________________________________________! A) They don't know what they're doing! B) They don't know what they want! C) They have no plan and are just making it up as they go! D) They are ruining features that were perfect with new features that suck! E) All of the above! F) Other! We hear such conjecture from time to time but it is all guesswork because the people who accuse don't really know. They are just guessing based on.....what? Why, it is based on the false premise they presented as fact that TFP constantly is completely reworking their game from scratch. So what is your point? What is your guess about TFP business practices that is based on the idea that they just throw away what they had before and start over and completely change it to something else? And can you provide an actual example where this happened since crafting isn't actually one?

I'm a Math Teacher Jim!

What about Zombie Santa Clause?

This is going to be the last puzzle. The remaining unknown features of A21 will have to remain unknown until either dev streams start or the update happens. I decided to make you actually work for this one so the nonogram is a real one I generated and the solution to it is part of the puzzle. It isn't just an image of any nonogram. I'm not completely happy with the ending but hopefully it gets the point across.

It would be accurate to say that with each passing day the likelihood of that is growing.

When you first posted about it, it sounded like you assumed that "zombies with guns" was what they were going for as the final design. That was what I objected to. If you understand that they may be implemented in a basic form and then developed into something better then great. That is exactly the plan. Of course, from later writings it appears you don't like that model so I guess I don't know what to say. Its nothing to feel offended over. It is simply the truth of anything. Some people like some things and others don't. You have literally stated plainly that you don't like it when a feature is released at a "good enough" state and then changed multiple times until the developers are happy with it. You want it tested and developed out of view and then released in its final form with maybe just a bit of polishing needed or optimizing. To me, that point of view doesn't lend itself well to playing a game in alpha in early access. This game has behaved like an actual game that is in alpha development while open to public view. I have played many games that are in Early Access and most of them are NOT alpha stage games. Most of them are at the beta stage where everything is basically locked in and they just need to do final work on it. That makes for great public relations among the population who don't enjoy their games changing over time. I have also played some early access titles that are early but they do most of the iterative work behind closed doors and they don't add a new feature until it is in its basic final form. A few titles do experimental branches where they will release unfinished features that still have to undergo changes. I agree that 7 Days to Die is not like a lot of other games in Early Access. They actually took the Alpha label seriously as well as the Early Access concept and so we have had the ability as gamers to watch the full process of a game that was truly in alpha stage progress over time and change. That is exciting for those who can adapt with the changes. For those who don't it must be torture. Well if you're going to admit that you were just exaggerating to get a point across then there isn't really any need to show how your claim was mistaken. You already know you were mistaken and were purposely mistaken in order to make a point about something. But, regardless, here is what crafting has undergone over the years: Started as a spatial grid system like Minecraft where you were forced to place ingredients in the grid in the correct spots. Changed to a spatial grid that had a list where you could search your recipe and select it and the grid would autofill so nobody had to memorize grid patterns. Changed to just a list system. When it changed, the recipes for the most part remained the same-- as did the role of crafting in the game. The change was purely visual. Some recipes got more ingredients making them more complex now that they didn't need to fit into a grid. Workstations beyond the fireplace and the forge were added Books with crafting recipes were added meaning the players couldn't craft all recipes at the start. Weapons could be crafted from parts made in molds Weapons could be crafted from parts but parts were changed to only being found in loot. Quality was introduced and crafting multiple of the same thing increased the quality of that thing when you crafted it Parts had quality tiers and the weapon was a combination of the parts' quality tiers Parts were removed and weapons were uncraftable. Recipe books removed and recipes were integrated with the perk abilities Weapons were made craftable again but from regular materials Parts were returned and weapons craftable again but now parts were recipe ingredients and had no quality Recipes removed from the perk abilities and learned by finding magazines So crafting has gone through a lot of changes but in all cases it was changing one thing at a time or returning to something tried previously but in a new way. Even your claim that they went from grid to list all at once is false. They were slowly adding lists to supplement the grid until it got to the point that they realized the grid was just holding them back. There was no sudden overhaul start from scratch moment. You can offer another example if you wish but since we both know your claim was just an exaggeration there isn't really a need.

So that was over a year ago ( the last one) and so I'm thinking your memory is probably fuzzy if you think that Joel was saying that the goal was to hopefully have bandits that would simply be "Zombies with guns". More likely he said that they don't want the zombies to be that way. In fact I know that is what he said. They could do them properly. But you already made a snide remark that "They aren't even here yet" So they can do all their bandit work behind closed doors and all their iterating where you can't see any of it and simply reveal bandits when they are ready to release at 1.0 or they can follow the Early Access model of making indev features available to everyone to try out as they develop and have them go through several changes where someone might possibly fall in love with an early version that isn't intended to remain and then get mad. I hope they go with the Early Access model. Early Access isn't for everyone though. I don't think you are hating for the sake of hating. I think what you hate is playing a game that is still in development. You love playing a game that is all done and finished and not slated for changes. Putting out initial "that'll do" versions of features into an alpha build is exactly what is supposed to happen. If you don't like the process then just wait for the game to be finished. I guarantee that anyone who plays the game for the very first time on the day it releases as 1.0 will not feel any of the grief, or loss, or anger over what the game used to be like. They won't know. They'll simply enjoy it for what it is in its final version.

Only if you take it as condescending I guess... Nobody from the community has played A21 and not all information about the changes can be conveyed in text. You MUST play it to understand it. I never said that people who are skeptical probably haven't played the game before. That you are twisting my words to somehow mean that shows that you are not here to find out what's going on, you're here to accuse and attack. I never said you wanted to bring it back though it looks like now you do want it brought back. I said that removing the 600 levels to simplify and then making the crafting changes in A21 to make it more complex are not just inverses of each other. One doesn't simply undo the other. We couldn't have kept the 600 levels and gotten the same result that A21 accomplishes. Could 600 levels and the new A21 system work together? Probably-- except the developers decided they didn't want 600 levels. I invited you to give me an example of a totally revamped from scratch feature and I would show you how it went through iterations and evolved from former versions of itself rather than being recreated from scratch. All you can say to that is that I'm lying and I know it. Who is avoiding the issue? I'm ready for your example of complete redo from scratch. Go. If not then I say you're just a troll and you know it.

That's fine. Kids were taking their finals.

First of all when was the last occasion you heard Joel say anything? Second of all, "zombies with guns" was mentioned by faatal occasionally to describe the very first iteration of them so as to curb unrealistic expectations of fans. They never claimed that bandits were being designed to forevermore be zombies with guns. Third of all, we can all tell by now that if bandits do release initially as "bandits with guns" and then they update them to have more depth you will complain that they have completely overhauled Bandits from scratch for the second time...

I think you make some assumptions that aren't true: The hydration system change is anything but a streamlining change. Attaining hydration security is now a much more complex and goal oriented process than it used to be. You are essentially building a water farm and until you are able to get it implemented there is a scarcity of water that forces you to make choices about how you will utilize your water. I encourage you to change your jar recipe to make jars harder to craft and see if that yields the same results as the A21 change to hydration survival. They develop through iteration and they always have. Maybe you didn't pick up on the pattern until recently but it is how they have done everything since the beginning. Maybe if they would have done all their iterative development behind closed doors so you never witnessed the intermediate versions you would be a lot happier. But they have allowed those wishing to participate in early access to go through the process with them. I've personally been very intrigued by their process. I learned early on not to let myself get too attached to any one version of any particular feature. I think most who are still enjoying the development of this game are of this same mindset. So what? Why should they listen to masses of people who have never tried it and have only heard incomplete descriptions of it and who are filling in all the gaps of their knowledge with the worst case scenarios that their worried minds can concoct? The game has had some form of learning by reading mechanic since about Alpha 11 and this is the latest iteration of what has already been part of the game. The purpose of the change was not to simply make it harder to obtain large amounts of water. It was to give murky water more of a presence in the game, to bring glass jar containers into alignment with all other containers in the game, to add a new type of farming to the game, and to make water survival more interesting. Having played the system, in my opinion, the change they went with accomplishes all of these things. The 600 quality levels and the new system are so completely different from each other that it really shows your lack of understanding of the new system which is fair since you haven't been able to play it. What is not fair is to act like you understand both equally and so can lump them together as the same thing. Even in the 600 point system once you got your stone axe to 600 your fireaxe and steel axe were also automatically 600. The new system is different in that you are going to progress through the quality levels for all tiers of weapons and tools which not only means more crafting but also means no automatic skipping of about 70% of the progression. The depth of crafting the new system adds is completely fresh and not at all in any way the same as what might have been lost when we went to 1-6 quality levels. Bandits have always been referred to as bandits even during the kickstarter campaign. NPCs were also mentioned and were inclusive of traders and bandits. Followers were considered but ultimately dropped. Everything I have read and written about bandits is that in their first iteration they will be basic-- like zombies with weapons but that would simply be the very first implementation of them. Now that they have been pushed to A22 they will probably be more sophisticated. But I have never read a single official source that has stated that the dev's intention is to make bandits like zombies with guns and end there. Nothing has been completely revamped or redone from scratch. Everything has evolved from already existing versions. I know it makes it sound so much more dramatic to say but it just isn't true. You show me a system you think was redone from scratch and I will show you how it developed over time from one version to the next. Even the new learn by reading system which was a dramatic change simply separated the crafting recipes from the perks and used magazines to unlock them. Nothing about the concept is a complete start over from scratch. The perk trees remain mostly the same from A20. I guarantee that nobody is going to be confused about how to use a magazine. This I agree with. Building is a lot more simplistic than it used to be. That was definitely a tough decision the devs had to make. Both Joel and Rick enjoy the building aspect of the game and see it as very important. Only they can say why they decided to streamline the building the way they did. They obviously want plenty of shapes to be available (there are many more coming in A21) but for some reason the various upgrade paths weren't as important to them.

This feeling completely depends on a person's personal preferences. Every system you point at as having been ruined by the changes someone else will point at as having been enhanced. Each player has those aspects of the game that they appreciate depth and detail and "sim"-ness to it and those aspects that they appreciate being more streamlined and abstract and "arcade"-ish. Take this suggestion, for example. I already know that if you made having a fuel canister item that was required as a tool or container for collecting gas and it had to be found in loot, there would already be people around here thinking of alternate words to "neat". The dew collector requires that you find one of the components and there is already worry about that. I'm not saying your fuel canister or canteen idea are bad. I, personally, would totally be on board for detail like that. But I recognize that such changes aren't going to have universal appeal and if the developers, themselves, are wanting the game to swing more arcade in an area where I prefer it more sim (or vice versa) then I know that I'm going to have find a mod to get what I want.

Write a short scene of Darth Vader defending his base in 7 Days to Die Darth Vader stood atop the wall of his base, looking out at the approaching horde of zombies. He could feel their collective anger and hunger, and he knew that he would have to act quickly to defend his base. He reached out with the Force, lifting several of the zombies off the ground and tossing them aside with ease. The rest of the zombies continued to advance, but Vader was ready for them. He ignited his lightsaber, the red blade glowing brightly in the dim light. With a powerful swing, he sliced through the first wave of zombies, cutting them down with ease. The zombies continued to press forward, but Vader was relentless. He fought with a skill and ferocity that few could match, cutting down zombie after zombie with his lightsaber. Finally, after what seemed like an eternity, the last of the zombies fell to the ground, vanquished by the power of the Dark Side. Vader stood victorious, his base safe once again.

It uses the active quest selector so only one at a time can be displayed on the screen and if your crafting recipe is displayed the quest marker for any current quest will not. There may be further development on it.

Plus a decidedly Jim Henson vibe.

On the HUD it is exactly like the initial quest where it lists and tracks the materials you need to collect to complete your recipe. But there is no hand holding in the sense of beacons pointing out where to get the mats. And yes it is entirely optional. There is a button you click if you want the tracker to appear for a recipe.