Idea for removing level gates.

[Slingblade2040]

During my current playthrough I noticed I was saving points because I wanted certain things when I got the certain levels to unlock them. I ignored the gun perks because I don't care much for them and same with the harvesting perks. So I was stuck with unused points that I would have loved to spend but couldn't because of the level gates

 

So I thought of an idea. Remove the level gates from attributes and perks. We would still need said attribute to unlock said perk and said perk to unlock things to craft though. I feel it would add a bit more of thought into things like should i go all intelligence at the start or all strength to wreck zombies or not go into melle damage and go more for harvesting to get materials faster to build up my base better?

 

I like the attributes and perk system and I hope they add more onto it to give us more choices later on but I really would like to see level gates gone.

[PoppaTot]

During my current playthrough I noticed I was saving points because I wanted certain things when I got the certain levels to unlock them. I ignored the gun perks because I don't care much for them and same with the harvesting perks. So I was stuck with unused points that I would have loved to spend but couldn't because of the level gates

 

So I thought of an idea. Remove the level gates from attributes and perks. We would still need said attribute to unlock said perk and said perk to unlock things to craft though. I feel it would add a bit more of thought into things like should i go all intelligence at the start or all strength to wreck zombies or not go into melle damage and go more for harvesting to get materials faster to build up my base better?

 

I like the attributes and perk system and I hope they add more onto it to give us more choices later on but I really would like to see level gates gone.

 

This actually sounds pretty good, kind of a compromise for all. I would really enjoy this. To be clear, you mean something like this: No level lock on intellect, but would still have level lock on grease monkey. Correct?

[KeiraR]

During my current playthrough I noticed I was saving points because I wanted certain things when I got the certain levels to unlock them. I ignored the gun perks because I don't care much for them and same with the harvesting perks. So I was stuck with unused points that I would have loved to spend but couldn't because of the level gates

 

So I thought of an idea. Remove the level gates from attributes and perks. We would still need said attribute to unlock said perk and said perk to unlock things to craft though. I feel it would add a bit more of thought into things like should i go all intelligence at the start or all strength to wreck zombies or not go into melle damage and go more for harvesting to get materials faster to build up my base better?

 

I like the attributes and perk system and I hope they add more onto it to give us more choices later on but I really would like to see level gates gone.

 

Go into progression.xml and change everything that says operation="GTE" to operation="LTE".

That should remove all level caps.

[PoppaTot]

I think the discussion is more about input on how some want the level capping removed from the final product, not about how to mod the XMLs to get a desired fix.

[KeiraR]

I think the discussion is more about input on how some want the level capping removed from the final product, not about how to mod the XMLs to get a desired fix.

 

Just giving an option to someone saying they want the level gate gone.

[PoppaTot]

Just giving an option to someone saying they want the level gate gone.

 

Totally fair, I was just giving some context. Cheers

[Tin]

During my current playthrough I noticed I was saving points because I wanted certain things when I got the certain levels to unlock them. I ignored the gun perks because I don't care much for them and same with the harvesting perks. So I was stuck with unused points that I would have loved to spend but couldn't because of the level gates

 

So I thought of an idea. Remove the level gates from attributes and perks. We would still need said attribute to unlock said perk and said perk to unlock things to craft though. I feel it would add a bit more of thought into things like should i go all intelligence at the start or all strength to wreck zombies or not go into melle damage and go more for harvesting to get materials faster to build up my base better?

 

I like the attributes and perk system and I hope they add more onto it to give us more choices later on but I really would like to see level gates gone.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?96061-some-things-i-have-to-say-about-the-new-progression-system&p=881946&viewfull=1#post881946

 

^Similar thought.

It actually plays well (imo) and doesn't hurt anything in the game, but it does speed up leveling some, so will probably need some adjusting in areas.

[Scyris]

I don't mind the level gates too much, I do wish the base stats did more though. Str and int are fine, its the rest that are meh, I mean if I didn't need them for perk levels i'd probally never raise the other 3 much.

[Slingblade2040]

Just giving an option to someone saying they want the level gate gone.

 

I know how to mod them out same with modding the harvest increase for perks and damage and other stuff. This was meant more as an idea to see how the community felt since I saw so many complaints about the level gates.

[Slingblade2040]

This actually sounds pretty good, kind of a compromise for all. I would really enjoy this. To be clear, you mean something like this: No level lock on intellect, but would still have level lock on grease monkey. Correct?

 

The lock for grease monkey would be the lock from the intelligence attribute. Then ofcourse having to find the items to create the thing.

[Slingblade2040]

I don't mind the level gates too much, I do wish the base stats did more though. Str and int are fine, its the rest that are meh, I mean if I didn't need them for perk levels i'd probally never raise the other 3 much.

 

That's the issue I had with the level gates. Like for me strength and intelligence were my go to at the start then perception for the lucky looter but then I noticed well now I have points to spend but I'm forced to wait to hit X level to spend them which was a bother to me. I would have preferred to just dump the points into let's say all strength at the start and max out the Melle perks. Basically my first 20 levels would have gone into melle combat and now it would take longer for me to unlock the intelligence perks since as you level up more it takes more experience to level up hence more time needed to get the attributes and perks from the other trees if you ignore them early on.

[icehot]

Not that I'm against level gating, it seems fine to me; but one answer to this might be to lower the XP you get from killing zombies (keep everything else the same), maybe to 200 or 300 xp perhaps - then it would still take the desired amount of time to reach certain perks. Of course the downside to that would be people farming zombies even more than they currently are.

[Krougal]

I'm torn. At first I absolutely hated the level gates, especially for bicycles.

But then every playthrough so far I've been well into my 30s by the time I find enough acid for a pair of wheels anyway.

 

Being forced to spread points around does make me try different perks out instead of just beelining for the top of a few things too, so it probably isn't such a bad thing, and even with a mere 5-10 % increase or 10-20% chance of effect each perk really does seem to add noticeable benefits. Being as you are stuck with that skill level for a bit you have time to notice it, and then appreciate it when you can finally get a next point, or decide it's meh and you don't want to put anymore into it.

 

My biggest gripe with the level gating right now is not being able to assemble steel arrows and bullets without the recipe. I'm fine with the material crafting being gated but we should be able to use what we find, as with most other things in the game right now.

 

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Not that I'm against level gating, it seems fine to me; but one answer to this might be to lower the XP you get from killing zombies (keep everything else the same), maybe to 200 or 300 xp perhaps - then it would still take the desired amount of time to reach certain perks. Of course the downside to that would be people farming zombies even more than they currently are.

 

I don't understand why people think farming zombies is a bad thing in a zombie game. Leave my XP alone!

[Skeeter63082]

Not that I'm against level gating, it seems fine to me; but one answer to this might be to lower the XP you get from killing zombies (keep everything else the same), maybe to 200 or 300 xp perhaps - then it would still take the desired amount of time to reach certain perks. Of course the downside to that would be people farming zombies even more than they currently are.

 

The answer is almost never a nerf, but instead a buff. Buff the exp given from doing non-combat related activities and add an exp bonus to perk tree tiers for such things, such as a 10% exp buff for each tier of Motherlode as an example. Maintain a higher exp rate from killing zombies, since that's the riskier path, but at least give people who are base building and harvesting a chance to progress at a somewhat decent rate.

[PoppaTot]

I'm torn. At first I absolutely hated the level gates, especially for bicycles.

But then every playthrough so far I've been well into my 30s by the time I find enough acid for a pair of wheels anyway.

 

Being forced to spread points around does make me try different perks out instead of just beelining for the top of a few things too, so it probably isn't such a bad thing, and even with a mere 5-10 % increase or 10-20% chance of effect each perk really does seem to add noticeable benefits. Being as you are stuck with that skill level for a bit you have time to notice it, and then appreciate it when you can finally get a next point, or decide it's meh and you don't want to put anymore into it.

 

My biggest gripe with the level gating right now is not being able to assemble steel arrows and bullets without the recipe. I'm fine with the material crafting being gated but we should be able to use what we find, as with most other things in the game right now.

 

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I don't understand why people think farming zombies is a bad thing in a zombie game. Leave my XP alone!

 

 

I've usually found my first tires in Pass n Gas boxes. But that aside, I only made the bicycle in my first play. Seemed pointless after that. Minibike is almost pointless now too. XP goes so quick through those levels if you have my build. Sneak bonus and arrows.... kill zombies easily from a distance and move on to the motorcycle. I am getting a bit bored without having my focus being on building a huge horde night kill base though.

[Skeeter63082]

I've usually found my first tires in Pass n Gas boxes. But that aside, I only made the bicycle in my first play. Seemed pointless after that. Minibike is almost pointless now too. XP goes so quick through those levels if you have my build. Sneak bonus and arrows.... kill zombies easily from a distance and move on to the motorcycle. I am getting a bit bored without having my focus being on building a huge horde night kill base though.

 

Minibike also sucks now since it's speed is now determined by your intelligence level instead of putting the best damn small engine you can find on there. Pretty much guarantees your minibike will be slower than you were used to in A16 because the quality will only be 3 when you open up the recipe. If you're going to wait to craft a higher quality, you might as well make the motorcycle, which is my favorite currently anyway, even over the 4X4 unless I'm doing a big loot run and just need the extra space the truck offers.

[icehot]

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I don't understand why people think farming zombies is a bad thing in a zombie game. Leave my XP alone!

 

The answer is almost never a nerf, but instead a buff. Buff the exp given from doing non-combat related activities and add an exp bonus to perk tree tiers for such things, such as a 10% exp buff for each tier of Motherlode as an example. Maintain a higher exp rate from killing zombies, since that's the riskier path, but at least give people who are base building and harvesting a chance to progress at a somewhat decent rate.

 

I think you misunderstood - I mean if they got rid of level gates, then to keep the pace consistent with the current level gating they could lower the XP you get from zombies, so the same amount of time will pass before you have the required number of points to get the bicycle for instance - either level gate to 30 for it, or determine the approximate amount of time it takes for a player to reach the bicycle stage (which might take 15 days perhaps for the average player to reach level 30 and unlock the bike), and then nerf the XP given by a percentage so that it will still take on average 15 days.

 

This way players aren't level gated, but the game is still paced at the same level the devs want it paced at.

[Skeeter63082]

I think you misunderstood - I mean if they got rid of level gates, then to keep the pace consistent with the current level gating they could lower the XP you get from zombies, so the same amount of time will pass before you have the required number of points to get the bicycle for instance - either level gate to 30 for it, or determine the approximate amount of time it takes for a player to reach the bicycle stage (which might take 15 days perhaps for the average player to reach level 30 and unlock the bike), and then nerf the XP given by a percentage so that it will still take on average 15 days.

 

This way players aren't level gated, but the game is still paced at the same level the devs want it paced at.

 

Perhaps. I mean removing the level requirement for the governing stat in each skill tree would still allow people to advance in their own way and actually ENCOURAGE specialization, which I thought was the point of the new perk tree anyway. If someone wants to cram all their points into INT and be able to craft everything by level 40 but suck at everything else, that should be their prerogative. It's the whole point of character specialization. I'm a builder/crafter, not a fighter. Or I'm a hell of a fighter, but I can't even make an iron axe. Or even I'm a jack of all trades, master of none. Whatever you want. Still the EXP rates for non-combat are atrocious and need to be buffed. They can leave the kill exp alone as long as they give less combat oriented people a reasonable way to level.

[PoppaTot]

Perhaps. I mean removing the level requirement for the governing stat in each skill tree would still allow people to advance in their own way and actually ENCOURAGE specialization, which I thought was the point of the new perk tree anyway. If someone wants to cram all their points into INT and be able to craft everything by level 40 but suck at everything else, that should be their prerogative. It's the whole point of character specialization. I'm a builder/crafter, not a fighter. Or I'm a hell of a fighter, but I can't even make an iron axe. Or even I'm a jack of all trades, master of none. Whatever you want. Still the EXP rates for non-combat are atrocious and need to be buffed. They can leave the kill exp alone as long as they give less combat oriented people a reasonable way to level.

 

100%, where as of now you ALMOST have to be a jack of all trades in SP. MP gives a little bit more leeway, but not much. IMO you're still semi forced to funnel your stats to be able to survive.

[Krougal]

I think you misunderstood - I mean if they got rid of level gates, then to keep the pace consistent with the current level gating they could lower the XP you get from zombies, so the same amount of time will pass before you have the required number of points to get the bicycle for instance - either level gate to 30 for it, or determine the approximate amount of time it takes for a player to reach the bicycle stage (which might take 15 days perhaps for the average player to reach level 30 and unlock the bike), and then nerf the XP given by a percentage so that it will still take on average 15 days.

 

This way players aren't level gated, but the game is still paced at the same level the devs want it paced at.

 

I still don't get your logic. I get 3-5 levels a day. I'd get half that if zed xp were nerfed, so it would take me twice as long.

If there were no level gates, it's not like I'm going to beeline for crafting skills (and I AM our groups crafter, also highest level), I'd be maxing my chosen weapon skills first. Then of course there's a level or 2 of all the important QOL perks like cardio, factor, pack mule. I don't think my early game point spending would change all that much if the gating were removed. I absolutely hated it at first but learning to live with it and compared to the way A16 did it I will take A17 all day, everyday and twice on Sunday.

[Skeeter63082]

@Ldog and @ icehot

 

You both have legitimate points. This is obviously a balancing issue. The level gates force people to grind zeds to achieve non-combat ability which makes no sense. But at the same time, grinding non-combat activities is not even close to productive, so either way you're killing zeds.

[PoppaTot]

I guess my feelings are that TFP's won't just pick the middle ground. For example, people come to my stream and as the question: "what is the fastest way to level?"

 

Me: A16.4 would be mining and A17 would be zombie farming, and only zombie farming.

 

To me that answer should not be polar opposites based on the alpha you're playing lol

[icehot]

I still don't get your logic. I get 3-5 levels a day. I'd get half that if zed xp were nerfed, so it would take me twice as long.

If there were no level gates, it's not like I'm going to beeline for crafting skills (and I AM our groups crafter, also highest level), I'd be maxing my chosen weapon skills first. Then of course there's a level or 2 of all the important QOL perks like cardio, factor, pack mule. I don't think my early game point spending would change all that much if the gating were removed. I absolutely hated it at first but learning to live with it and compared to the way A16 did it I will take A17 all day, everyday and twice on Sunday.

 

I don't get it at all - everyone seems so hung up on levelling as fast as possible, what's wrong with it taking twice as long?

[Skeeter63082]

I don't get it at all - everyone seems so hung up on levelling as fast as possible, what's wrong with it taking twice as long?

 

Because screw stone, wood, iron, and ammo, time is your most important resource in this game. Rushing to gain levels is an attempt to better prepare yourself for the sh*tstorm that is approaching.

[PoppaTot]

I don't get it at all - everyone seems so hung up on levelling as fast as possible, what's wrong with it taking twice as long?

 

Take it for what you will, there are people that don't like tedious/challenging part of games. I enjoy it, but when it changes drastically and I'm forced to totally alter my play style to even be relevant to the group it's a bit jarring. I still enjoy A17, but it's not the same game I grew to love. Just my humble opinion.