PVP- base griefing

[LuckyStar]

 

I wonder if we could get a system in place where claim blocks give full protection against player damage on blocks in general, but only partial protection for passageways and containers?

Passageways would either be obviously doors and hatches, but also a randomly chosen section of a room's wall if the room is built as a complete enclosure without doors or hatches.

 

Would prolly be too complicated/ resource intensive to calculate, but would definitely alleviate the griefing issue. (As long as they don't hack the server right away)

 

 

Actually not that bad to calculate.

Default would be that any block was indestructible by other players while under LCB protection.

Only the exceptions would need an extra bit of data to tell Unity it's an exception.

 

Furthermore, only check for that when [PlayerIsInsideLCBZone] = True

 

Might not be too resource intensive.

 

Meh.... what do I know. Just throwing out ideas here.

[Poojam]

1. This can already be done on a dedicated server via the LCB configuration settings. No mod required.

 

2. TFP doesn't think that there is no PvP community. They did not design this as a PvP game. You guys may be getting some balance to PvP after the game is released, but it's not something they care about. The PvP in the game currently is a result of a bug, that was left and modified some because they saw there was a desire for the players. They have no reason to put much effort into it though, as this is not sold as a PvP game. It's sold as a co-op game.

 

"Solo, Cooperative and Multiplayer - Play solo, coop or multiplayer in our unique Zombie Nomad Mode be a human, a bandit or a zombie for a no rules experience. Watch the leader boards and fight to be the Big Clan of the Wasteland or the Duke of Navezgane."

 

Please explain how or why a co-op game would need to have clans and leaderboards?

 

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doesnt want to get your base destroyed? play on server where bases are undestructable. simpliest solution. the fun part of pvp is making hard bases to raid.

 

This 1000%

[Scyris]

Anything with pvp will be filled with greifers no matter what game it is, if your not willing to deal with greifers just don't join a pvp server is about all I can say. In general the worst cesspool of people tend to prefer pvp servers, usually most of them are greifers. Not all are bad mind you but a large percent of them are. I honestly like how Fo76 is handling pvp, greifers hate how fo76 does it, but the rest like it, it makes greifing extremly hard not to mention risky. Like Todd said "It turns ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s into content". If you murder someone where they don't fight back, you become wanted, and everyone disappears on your map, but they can all see you as your flagged. Also the only way I know of for a player to destroy another players base is with a nuke. You could shoot at someones base all day and not do anything much. However I could see some monster greifing going on as npcs CAN damage bases, mind you it'd be alot of work and risk to the greifer themselves but hell they live to make other peoples lives annoying.

 

I am just glad its not going to turn into a open gankfest like every other survival game with pvp, no one has any respect for any other player these days like they did in the past, Its even much worse on pvp servers.

[Ld-airgrafix]

doesnt want to get your base destroyed? play on server where bases are undestructable. simpliest solution. the fun part of pvp is making hard bases to raid.

Not sure if you read and understood my original post, the issue isnt that I got raided and my stuff taken, thats to be expected on a pvp server. The issue is, they went out of their way to destroy everything, even the stuff that had nothing to do with loot or being beneficial to anyone.

As for “unraidable bases”, they do not exist if you have the time.

[Kam R.]

Anything with pvp will be filled with greifers no matter what game it is, if your not willing to deal with greifers just don't join a pvp server is about all I can say. In general the worst cesspool of people tend to prefer pvp servers, usually most of them are greifers. Not all are bad mind you but a large percent of them are. I honestly like how Fo76 is handling pvp, greifers hate how fo76 does it, but the rest like it, it makes greifing extremly hard not to mention risky. Like Todd said "It turns ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s into content". If you murder someone where they don't fight back, you become wanted, and everyone disappears on your map, but they can all see you as your flagged. Also the only way I know of for a player to destroy another players base is with a nuke. You could shoot at someones base all day and not do anything much. However I could see some monster greifing going on as npcs CAN damage bases, mind you it'd be alot of work and risk to the greifer themselves but hell they live to make other peoples lives annoying.

 

I am just glad its not going to turn into a open gankfest like every other survival game with pvp, no one has any respect for any other player these days like they did in the past, Its even much worse on pvp servers.

 

I believe griefers-at-heart should get some, but not too much attention, when it comes to the design of core PvP mechanics. The example of F76 shows how focusing too much on preventing griefing turns the game's PvP pretty much pointless. Their ideas for it aren't all bad, but overshoot on the anti-griefing part. They made it so there's not just no way to grief, but also generally no viable reason to PvP.

(Except maybe the workshops feature, where you have to defend resource producing facilities against both players and NPC – That's actually the sort of feature, that would make 7dtd's PvP a lot more interesting, the sort of feature going in a direction of giving actual reasons to PvP beyond "Imma keel u/Imma takes your loots" - A common problem of most openworld sandbox survival games, imo)

 

They just didn't want to have to put in the extra work to have servers properly moderated. Instead they'll likely fall flat on their faces, when the PC version gets riddled by hackers, because they appearently don't even encrypt the network data.

Eh, this is going to turn into a rant about how Beth/ZeniMax are running my beloved franchise into the ground, just because the marketing department needs to play catch-up with Fortnite. Let's not mention F76 anymore, please.

 

 

Would love to see a dev, or someone with the know-how, respond whether my previous idea would be possible.

[Kam R.]

Yea but its not the STANDART. And if you change the standart it gets moved to modding (or at least it was for the longstes time) which is why most admins are very hesitant to change them.

There is LITERALLY no benefit to having offlineraids active. It only encourages bad behaviour, satisfies trolls and ♥♥♥♥s and drives legitamate PvP players away from the game.

 

Its just this one single change:

(...)

 

Kinda off-topic, but I just spotted this post, thinking again:

Why is the modded section even still a thing? Why can't we get a bigger field for a proper server description instead?

Many servers have to specify anyway what mod is running in the server name or description, since there are so many possibilities what "modded" means. Is it so bad to just completely leave it to a good server admin to write "Vanilla" or "Valmod" or whatever in the description?

[Spectral Force]

So each server is governed by the owner and his or her rules. You may like my servers when they are populated again. I allow no griefing and that list keeps expanding when new players find ways. You can't stalk players once you kill them. I've had instances on other servers where you're just trying to get your bag on top of your base and you keep getting killed. It's frustrating and sucks. I don't allow base or bench destruction. So they can't destroy your cement mixer, chem station, workbench etc. They can't destroy your base and level it to the ground. Players spend hours upon hours building bases just to have some ♥♥♥♥e head come level it, nope. You can only destroy what you need to get in. Once a player has been raided, I place a 48 hour relief on that player from being raided. Meaning if you're raided you are not allowed to be raided again for 48 hours, giving the player time to rebuild, refortify and scavenge. That doesn't mean that if you're out in the wild and you get attacked is part of that 48 hours. Thanks to Prisma and his CPM mod I have a way to keep people from raiding for this time period. I highly encourage pvp but I also highly discourage being a douche nozzle. I have a very low tolerance for BS that wastes my time, so banning is swift and harsh once the rule are broken.

 

I have an open pvp server if you're interested, its mainly empty bc everyone's waiting on a17 and I have a few xml tweaks to it, like a modified auger blade recipe, more animal spawns per biome and a new weapon behind a perk.

 

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Kinda off-topic, but I just spotted this post, thinking again:

Why is the modded section even still a thing? Why can't we get a bigger field for a proper server description instead?

Many servers have to specify anyway what mod is running in the server name or description, since there are so many possibilities what "modded" means. Is it so bad to just completely leave it to a good server admin to write "Vanilla" or "Valmod" or whatever in the description?

 

I always include what mod is running on my server in the name, like blahblah Medieval Mod Emu Branch Vx.x PvE

[LuckyStar]

Kinda off-topic, but I just spotted this post, thinking again:

Why is the modded section even still a thing? Why can't we get a bigger field for a proper server description instead?

Many servers have to specify anyway what mod is running in the server name or description, since there are so many possibilities what "modded" means. Is it so bad to just completely leave it to a good server admin to write "Vanilla" or "Valmod" or whatever in the description?

 

Yeah I'd like to see the Vanilla/Modded description go completely.

It's far harder to get players to join a Modded server than a vanilla one.

 

Just having a better system that allows a detailed description of what mods are active would work fine.

 

I expect the "Vanilla Elitists" are gonna hate that suggestion.

[Reth]

I prefer PVP servers, mainly because of that extra danger, even though Im not a pvp player. However my last server experience left a very sour feeling for this game.

Played for few weeks on that server, got a very high level character (probably highest ever), but then my base got raided while I was offline. Which isn't the problem, but they destroyed everything, everything was gone, from loot boxes, crafting tables, forges etc. and I basically would have to restart everything. I mean these guys weren't only after my loot, they wanted me completely destroyed. I really think this is a bad sportsmanship, it drives players away from the server and possibly the game.

I have nothing against base looting, but destroying things like walls and floors, things that do absolutely nothing , just to spite the player, is wrong.

 

Sadly, I've seen this type of post many times in multiple game forums. You have to understand that there are folks out there who only play to cause you grief, and as much of it as possible. That's their sole purpose, they have no other. They don't want to build, they want to destroy. They only enjoy the game if somebody else gets to suffer. Don't expect them to play by the rules, either - if they can hack their way through, they will.

 

I like PvP, I enjoyed it in many games, but it has to be heavily regulated to the point of being consensual. Otherwise it takes a single griefer to mess up everything.

[Spectral Force]

Yeah I'd like to see the Vanilla/Modded description go completely.

It's far harder to get players to join a Modded server than a vanilla one.

 

Just having a better system that allows a detailed description of what mods are active would work fine.

 

I expect the "Vanilla Elitists" are gonna hate that suggestion.

 

From what I've heard, there's only going to be 1 server list and there will be a way to denote a vanilla server from a modded server. Not sure about how to include details besides in the config, but people don't read those anyawys.

[Spectral Force]

Sadly, I've seen this type of post many times in multiple game forums. You have to understand that there are folks out there who only play to cause you grief, and as much of it as possible. That's their sole purpose, they have no other. They don't want to build, they want to destroy. They only enjoy the game if somebody else gets to suffer. Don't expect them to play by the rules, either - if they can hack their way through, they will.

 

I like PvP, I enjoyed it in many games, but it has to be heavily regulated to the point of being consensual. Otherwise it takes a single griefer to mess up everything.

 

When my servers are in full swing I have admins on almost 24/7 because of time zones and what not monitoring for trolls. The only trolls I want are the ones that are included with Medieval Mod. I can check my discord and following people chatting, I have full view of players movements and inventory. There's also a gbl I can check players against and why they were banned. I have littel tolerance for bs and will ban people without hesitation. I also run backups frequently in case something happens I can do a restore.

[Scyris]

This kind of thing is why I do NOT do PvP, and why when I so run a server, I turn that OFF.

 

Some think that kind of thing is fun. Well, I don't so I don't do it, or allow it in my games.

 

Others can do what they wish.

 

(and yes, PvP is an afterthought for this game, has been stated repeatedly that it's a very low priority right now)

(even if there ARE achievements for PvP.)

 

You can get those achievements with the Darkness Falls mod, the bandits in it count as player kills, I've gotten my pvp player kill achieves via those. I assume when bandits come to the base game it'll also count for them.

[Scyris]

This is exactly what im talking about, players like these arent just out to loot you and set you back, they are there to completely destroy you to the point you just quit. I had multiple claim blocks as a back up, they wasted their time destroying unnecessary blocks, just to spite me.

Theres nothing devs can do about this, and this thread isnt about me trying to change the game to suit me. Pvp and base looting should be a part of it, but players like these arent doing any favours to the game, or the server hosts.

 

Thats the problem with the pvp community, its filled with players like the ones that bascally nuked your base. They got off on being a pain in the ass to others. P.s. Its not pvp if your raiding a empty base just a heads up. Most pvpers tend to be cowards I notice, if they can't gank someone they usually won't start anything. Usually its a high lv coming to low lv area to gank new players, but they run with their tail between their legs if anyone who can fight back shows up. This is also why most pvp games fail, the games own playerbase chase away newer players, and a mmorpg/online game needs a constant influx of new players to keep going.

 

Don't get me wrong I like pvp in a controller environment, like say arena battles or something. Never been a big fan of open pvp gankfests though especally if there is gear loss involved.

[Scyris]

I believe griefers-at-heart should get some, but not too much attention, when it comes to the design of core PvP mechanics. The example of F76 shows how focusing too much on preventing griefing turns the game's PvP pretty much pointless. Their ideas for it aren't all bad, but overshoot on the anti-griefing part. They made it so there's not just no way to grief, but also generally no viable reason to PvP.

(Except maybe the workshops feature, where you have to defend resource producing facilities against both players and NPC – That's actually the sort of feature, that would make 7dtd's PvP a lot more interesting, the sort of feature going in a direction of giving actual reasons to PvP beyond "Imma keel u/Imma takes your loots" - A common problem of most openworld sandbox survival games, imo)

 

They just didn't want to have to put in the extra work to have servers properly moderated. Instead they'll likely fall flat on their faces, when the PC version gets riddled by hackers, because they appearently don't even encrypt the network data.

Eh, this is going to turn into a rant about how Beth/ZeniMax are running my beloved franchise into the ground, just because the marketing department needs to play catch-up with Fortnite. Let's not mention F76 anymore, please.

 

 

Would love to see a dev, or someone with the know-how, respond whether my previous idea would be possible.

 

Yeah I was going to get fallout 76, but I decided to wait til after the game comes out after I seen people streaming the beta. I may not even bother with it after what I seen and heard. I also expect the game to go pay2win at some point. For example the stash for players could only hold 400 lbs, if you've played any bethesda elder scrolls/fallout game you know how much of a packrat people are, I suspected they were going to charge atoms for stash expansions once the game releases. Why else would they cap its weight limit when none of the other games in either seriers had weight limits on storage.

 

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Yeah I'd like to see the Vanilla/Modded description go completely.

It's far harder to get players to join a Modded server than a vanilla one.

 

Just having a better system that allows a detailed description of what mods are active would work fine.

 

I expect the "Vanilla Elitists" are gonna hate that suggestion.

 

Vanilla elitists? really? Why the hell would you force yourself to stay with Vanilla when there are so many mods that add so much content and stuff to the game O_o. I can't stand vanilla a16 anymore, its too boring.

 

As for modded servers, the reason why people are hesitant is because the game has no decent system for mod distrobution. For example if you were playing old school UT 2000 or so, you go to connect to a server, if it has custom mods, it shows you what they are, and you can download them and install them while in game to use and join that game. This is what 7dtd needs. Currently for alot of mods you have to go and get all the files manually, this is what pushes people away. Gamers today are used to everything being handed to them and hate having to do any actual work or put effort into things for most of them anyway.

 

On the otherside I can see how it'd be annoying to have to manually install/delete certan mods just to try out a server. Especally with how it mostly has to be done manually. I don't play 7dtd online much so I might be off on this, everytime i've tried to play on a server every single one lagged so bad it was unplayable no matter how close to me the server was. Kinda gave up on it.

[SylenThunder]

Yeah I'd like to see the Vanilla/Modded description go completely.

It's far harder to get players to join a Modded server than a vanilla one.

 

Just having a better system that allows a detailed description of what mods are active would work fine.

 

I expect the "Vanilla Elitists" are gonna hate that suggestion.

For the most part I agree. However servers hosting mods that require additional downloads for the client should be kept in a separate list.

 

Changes to the config within reason should not flag a server as modded. Servers that use simple xml mods could have an extra flag to show they are modded, and they can all sit in one list.

[LuckyStar]

Servers that use simple xml mods could have an extra flag to show they are modded...

 

100% this!!!!

 

Yeah if we're going to be separating Vanilla from Modded servers then XML should be separate from SDX.

 

Either go one way or the other... right now it's just not working.

I see people complaining they can't get folks onto their servers because it's "modded" and all they've got are some minor tweaks.

 

Yeah +1 for this idea.

 

 

The real issue at the root is how empty Modded servers can be.

Yeah there's a few exceptions but many seem to be struggling.

[skullpoker]

PvP is for people with something to overcompensate for. Just like inadequate people like to fight IRL. Be a true PIMP and play co-op or SP.

 

There are no other options.

[Kam R.]

PvP is for people with something to overcompensate for. Just like inadequate people like to fight IRL. Be a true PIMP and play co-op or SP.

 

There are no other options.

 

Not sure if trolling or not. If not, then this is quite the harsh generalization of competitive gaming and perhaps competitive activities in general(?).

There is value in competition (even unfriendly competition) and saying something like what you just said, to me seems like a feeble attempt at denying that fact of life. It's condescending as ♥♥♥♥ and frankly just bigoted.

 

This btw coming from someone who can't handle competition well at all times and tends to avoid it repeatedly and still is able to appreciate the good things it can bring. Sportsmanship. Courage. Personal growth.

 

Your statement probably applies to a large chunk of, but not all PvPers. I won't deny there's a lot of cancerous people out there, who maybe have a tiny ♥♥♥♥, or a dad that beats them to sleep every night, or whatever. It's hard, but not too hard for a good admin/mod team to identify such individuals and remove them from the game, so the adults can have fun.

 

So again to all those complaining about griefers, but still not afraid of competitive gameplay:

Look for a decent server with a sensible rule set and active staff enforcing the rules impartially.

Look for servers that have frequent backups of the game world, so in case a griefer slips through, lost work can be restored.

Or go the safe route and only PvP with your friends on your own terms altogether.

[Ld-airgrafix]

 

Look for a decent server with a sensible rule set and active staff enforcing the rules impartially.

Look for servers that have frequent backups of the game world, so in case a griefer slips through, lost work can be restored.

Or go the safe route and only PvP with your friends on your own terms altogether.

 

Its very hard to find a pvp server with more than 3 players in Oceania.

[skullpoker]

competitive activities in general(?).

 

Exactly. A realistic human being promotes the good of the group over individual success. Anything else is a recipe for extinction.

[Kam R.]

Exactly. A realistic human being promotes the good of the group over individual success. Anything else is a recipe for extinction.

 

Generally speaking:

Cooperation was, is and will be preventing extinction. But cooperation doesn't require total collectivism, but rather a good balance of collectivist AND individualist attitudes at the respective right times. Go into the extremes and you'll either sacrifice a lot of potential advancement for the sake of faux stability, or the group scatters into obscurity.

Friendly competition within a group, with proper regulation, keeping "the good of the group" in mind with a common goal, can be a driving force for a group to advance and prosper as a whole.

A good group draws from the abilities of its individual members and sometimes those individual members find and develop their strenghts only through competition with each other.

"The good of the group" and individual success don't have to (and shouldn't!) be mutually exclusive, as your rhetoric suggests.

 

There is a reason we developed to have competitive activities like sports and games – And that's what we're talking about here. Just because there are individualists, who come into it with a cutthroat (therefore extremist) mentality, doesn't mean it's pointless.

See PvPers as a group, if you will.

A responsible PvPer knows that purely destructive behavior for the sake of a few individual "wins" drives away future competition, resulting in less opportunities to enjoy it and profit from it. So for the good of the group "PvPers" the PvPer should follow some rules.

[Menace312]

Other games suffer by this too

Other Devs ignore this issue too

(But to be fair, i never percived this as a really big issue in 7D2D)

 

2 Workrarrounds

Join a Server with enforced rules that deny this

Make backup bases so that you can loose 1-3 without beeing grounded

 

Forget the idea to change the mind of griefing players, they mostly dont even understand what we talk about.

 

Really this.

[HerrKingsley]

Hackers which is what this sounds like, is a problem in many pvp and especially alphas. And that's not much to do about it.

But to the topic of griefers.

Griefers enjoys to destroy or stop some one else fun factor. But griefers can only survive in a environment where griefing is made easy.

Raiders on the other hand can survive in a environment where raiding is very hard.

 

Therefore I think TFP (eventhough focus is not on pvp) should do a few adjustments to minimize griefers.

A low level player should always have a hard time killing high level players. (Level based armorbonus from player injuries)

Use the value property you calculate hp of containers. Ex. If a box have 100 concrete blocks with s value of 300 add an 300 or whatever hp bonus to the box.

 

The amount of time a player has put in to gather a resource should inflict on the amount of time it takes to steal it!

[Ld-airgrafix]

I returned back to the server, it used to host on average 5-10 players per night. It was abandoned, according to the day in game, barely any days passed. Which means most players gave up around the same time as me.

On my way back to my first base, I came across a level 1 wooden base, using level 350 steel axe i decided to do a quick test. The claim block was active and after few hits, I basically got nowhere, it would take a long time to break in, which makes me wonder, were there hacks used to break into my base which was level 2 concrete?

The fact they spent time destroying things which didnt really need destroying, while some claim blocks were still active???

[HerrKingsley]

It was a long time since I played pvp in 7dtd. But it sounds like hackers to me