Jackelmyer Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 If this is the problem with granite, then it isn't a problem. If granite resets SI calculation for anything above it but not for itself then it still needs dirt or stone below it. In other words it will not float. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. That's the idea I was thinking with Granite. It's just a Stone block. All the same mechanics, except one: It reset's SI. So yeah. It should collapse like Stone, have the same health as stone, have the same resistances as stone, same structural integrity itself as stone, and so on. Just anything that connects with it treats the granite, itself, as bedrock only, only only, from the perspective of SI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 heh I'm with any potential idea, Rolands, Yours, Maharin's... etc,. Just trying to find a way. I want perlin cave systems back So my idea: Why not create another "Air block" specifically one that gets place underground that has structural integrity that the player can pass through? SI mechanic calculates it as just another terrain block, basically making it think its a solid, thinking the cave/tunnel is filled in? its fun to have a round table discussion even if it goes nowhere at times We need to make or break this idea. I cannot fault it , if it has inheritance of an air block it should work. Not sure how replacing with other blocks will work out but should be the same as air and not sure about them being stacked above each other if that should happen but with no collision entities should fall on though it They could auto upgrade back to a terrian block also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I think generally speaking something to note on all of these ideas, is that in theory, a block itself should be able to say "I make everything above me structurally stable". While it also should be able to fall based on structural integrity rules. SI doesn't check the block itself to see if it is secure. It checks the block next to it. At least I understand SI to work as: Concrete Block: "Hey Sand Block! Can I stick to you!? Lets be best friends!" Sand Block: "No! You're too fat! You'll make us both fall!" Concrete Block: "Great! YAY FRIENDS!" Sand Block: "I said no!" <thump>... <stick>... Concrete Block: "Hehe... We're friends"... <falling screams of the Concrete Block and the Sand Block...> Sand Block: "I... haaate... yooooou..." If Concrete Block would have reflected on the reality of who and what he/she really is, no blocks, would have been hurt, in this situation. At least... That's how I understand it. So... Making a block that reset's SI? Concrete Block: "Hey Granite Block! Can I stick to you!? Lets be best friends!" Granite Block: "No. Sit on me. No questions. It's just best." Concrete Block: "Oooo. You sound mysterious. Is there something special about you?" Granite Block: "Meh. Just sit on me and everyone will like you better. Sand may even forgive you." <thump>... <stick>... Granite Block: "Damn it! I said ON! Not TO! What's with you Concrete types?! I've got 5 off each of my faces... wait..." Concrete Block: "Hehe... We're friends"... <falling screams of the Concrete Block and the Granite Block...> Granite Block: "I... haaate... yooooou as weeeeeell..." If Concrete block would have just listened and followed the advise of wise and semi indifferent Granite Block, no blocks, would have been harmed, in this situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Yes, the round table is fun! :-D And... Airblock for underground that functions as supported? So... You could stick a regular block right in the middle of a cavern? Our players already walk through blocks and place blocks through them already, your just replacing one block with another. xD The new blocks below ground would function the same just with the added benefits of tricking the SI as being a solid block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 That's the idea I was thinking with Granite. It's just a Stone block. All the same mechanics, except one: It reset's SI. So yeah. It should collapse like Stone, have the same health as stone, have the same resistances as stone, same structural integrity itself as stone, and so on. Just anything that connects with it treats the granite, itself, as bedrock only, only only, from the perspective of SI. Yes. But lets be exact. When you mean "connects with it", do you mean from all sides or just from above? I.e. it definitely should not give any SI to anything below it, otherwise we have the hanging buildings again. Even the sides are a bit critical, the stability should only confer to blocks placed on (i.e. above) a granite block. EDIT: Ok, your sock puppets, well more like concrete puppets, made it clear you meant "above". Thanks for the clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Regarding the airblock tin suggested I think the problem is that zombies would need there AI programmed so instead of breaking a terrain block it uses action 1 to upgrade to airblock_spec. Thus the tunnel will still maintain SI and will turn back to terrain over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Yes. But lets be exact. When you mean "connects with it", do you mean from all sides or just from above? I.e. it definitely should not give any SI to anything below it, otherwise we have the hanging buildings again. Even the sides are a bit critical, the stability should only confer to blocks placed on (i.e. above) a granite block. I think my explanation of Structural Integrity above answers this. But yeah. Only what's on top of Granite would reset SI. I mean, that's basically what it is now. Everything is a vertical check until it's not supported. So, for caves and such, if they're always lined with granite, at least on world gen, then the only SI issues you have are those you create for yourself. And if you make an effect that when a zombie digs, not explodes, but it a zombie digs it turns the blocks it's digging through and any block touching it into granite, you can have zombies dig anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Our players already walk through blocks and place blocks through them already, your just replacing one block with another. xD The new blocks below ground would function the same just with the added benefits of tricking the SI as being a solid block. I see what you're saying. I think the issue here is you could kinda have permanent weird SI stable blocks. Meaning, I could then build a platform off of caverns walls, then expand all sides of the cavern disconnecting my platform. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna3921 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 8-| I have a very serious new NPC request. I want a wandering Mademole modeled bag lady, beard and all, slightly hunched, and generally miserable looking. That wields a gaudy ugly purse as a weapon. "He's" a wandering grumpy trader of scavenged goods. I'll stop asking for anything ever again. I second that, it would be awesome to see that walking around, swinging a bag at zombies as they tried to attack him (her?). The bag lady would pack such a wallop that the zombies would be stumbling back. Soooooooooo funny LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I see what you're saying. I think the issue here is you could kinda have permanent weird SI stable blocks. Meaning, I could then build a platform off of caverns walls, then expand all sides of the cavern disconnecting my platform. Right? I was thinking about that where air blocks have no glue but it allready has some voodoo to deal with that. But it being upgraded back to a terrain block over a set time should help with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I was thinking about that where air blocks have no glue but it allready has some voodoo to deal with that. But it being upgraded back to a terrain block over a set time should help with this. But then that kinda kills it's functional usage in Caverns right? After enough time, stuff on top just goes *pfffffffft*. Or if the air block upgrades back into a terrain block over time, caverns get filled in? Though that idea actually would be cool in regards to digging zombies. So any digging a zombie does, turns terrain into this funny air block. After say... 24 game hours... "Top soil slumps in on the areas the zombies dug into.". What would be funny is when someone is all, "OMG! They cleared out a whole new room for my underground base!" Quickly wall it off and load it with stuff. Aaand when 24 hours is up... poof. Your stuff needs to be dug out. Even funnier is someone trying to use that cleared space and is in mid build process suddenly has the air turn back to stone around them. "I'll put a vase here. Oooo... Picture here...." *poof* "OMG I'M SUFFOCATING!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Yes it could only be used for digging zombies and it is a good point about what happens if a player is in that blockspace as i guess there isnt any catch because there isnt a block without collision that gets upgraded via upgrade rate. I would have the upgrade rate quite quick so the player couldnt or would use it. Maybe you could create another air block type that inherits from airblock for procedural terrain built caves and caverns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I see what you're saying. I think the issue here is you could kinda have permanent weird SI stable blocks. Meaning, I could then build a platform off of caverns walls, then expand all sides of the cavern disconnecting my platform. Right? Could be something as little as saying the underground air blocks can't support any player made blocks. which that tag is already in the system to differentiate between player made blocks and non player made blocks. So if you removed your player made block from the cavern sides it would crumble with no support. maybe?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Yes it could only be used for digging zombies and it is a good point about what happens if a player is in that blockspace as i guess there isnt any catch because there isnt a block without collision that gets upgraded via upgrade rate Still. I think I like the granite for borders in World Gen made air pockets. And if digging zombies come to pass, this funny SI stable Air Block that upgrades back to the same terrain as any currently connected block terrain block. Invoking such a function would be tricky I'd think. - - - Updated - - - Could be something as little as saying the underground air blocks can't support any player made blocks. which that tag is already in the system to differentiate between player made blocks and non player made blocks. So if you removed your player made block from the cavern sides it would crumble with no support. maybe?!? Yeah, that makes sense to me. Huh. Yap about a topic enough and you come up with multiple options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Thinking about it though making sure poi are not built over cave systems is the job of the generator unless that is what your trying to achieve. Making sure player built structures are not built over caves and caverns is the job of the player we just dont have access to the tools in non debug mode and there not simple to understand as all you need is yes or no is SI being subtracted. Can we not expand or replace on the idea i had earlier of a projected block that changes red or green. Maybe if we place a woodframe and wait for it to calculate and it changes visually in some way if SI is being subtracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Yeah, that makes sense to me. Huh. Yap about a topic enough and you come up with multiple options. yup And nice ideas graphite as well ! Keep the cogs turning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Thinking about it though making sure poi are not built over cave systems is the job of the generator unless that is what your trying to achieve. Making sure player built structures are not built over caves and caverns is the job of the player we just dont have access to the tools in non debug mode and there not simple to understand as all you need is yes or no is SI being subtracted. Can we not expand or replace on the idea i had earlier of a projected block that changes red or green. Maybe if we place a woodframe and wait for it to calculate and it changes visually in some way if SI is being subtracted. I do like the idea that Prefabs/POI's as a rule spawn over an entirely structurally sound area of ground. I'd be way more likely to use an existing building and later demolish it to rebuild what I want. Just because I know I don't have to worry about the ground falling through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I dont think the ability/mechanic for blocks to inherit tags is fully realised in a way that will work for this but hopefully if it is possible it something TFP will look into because it opens other possible uses in othere areas and if they can extend it to surrounding blocks inheriting tags then i think things will get a lot more interesting if this is available config script side. EDIT: I have not got the xml's in front of me so i didnt really think though what i suggested fully. I forgot some terrain blocks can be upgraded already so it would me adding an extra tier that a player cannot access so it would be locked away from the player by hand item of a zombie on action 1. The terrain block should be able to inherit a material tag so this should be persistent so upgrade again to terrain would need some helper to choose the correct block but a tag is there it just needs to select and spawn. Upgrade time could be controlled by zombie hand item making it seem instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightRook Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Holy crap on a cow cake! Bag Lady Mad Mole?! This is BRILLIANT! Mind you, he should team up with an despondent Alice Cooper beating the zombies to death with their own shoes. Sorry, that is just a reference for people who are in the know lol. But I agree, handbag means LOTS more inventory AND the more stuff you have in it the more damage you do. I now want to start a petition to have MM dress up as said bag lady for Halloween. I can't believe this all came from my post. But its what happen when you mix random with brilliance, the likes of which you find here on the forums...oh yes, I forgot madness...and mom's tarts. I still don't think its too much to ask for undies. I mean, who wants to fight the apocalypse on day 5,682,981 and realize that they are still wearing the same underwear? It's that moment you realize that smell isn't the zombies and you just need a bath. Not a bath full of boobs though..that seems...I don't know, we need a new word that combines bewilderment, paranoia and sadness. I love this forum! Thanks all of you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjustus548 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Awww I hate to see that you are dropping ziplines and behemoths. I was looking forward to those but I can understand why you would drop them. Can't wait for A17 to be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightRook Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 It certainly involves pickles. And a wrench, a bucket, a medium sized zombie head, and some corn husks. Whatever you do, don't go lightly with the corn husks. I can't un-see this!! No no no noooo! I mean...a MOP I can understand...but SERIOUSLY!?!? A WRENCH!?!? This terrifies me beyond the capacity for rational thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I can't un-see this!! No no no noooo! I mean...a MOP I can understand...but SERIOUSLY!?!? A WRENCH!?!? This terrifies me beyond the capacity for rational thought. Baby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightRook Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I am already super excited about the features I am seeing for A17 so far, can't wait to find out more. I couldn't find if there were any specific reasons sited for dropping the ziplines or behemoths though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 Just Reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosterone Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Holy crap on a cow cake! Bag Lady Mad Mole?! This is BRILLIANT! Mind you, he should team up with an despondent Alice Cooper beating the zombies to death with their own shoes. Sorry, that is just a reference for people who are in the know lol. But I agree, handbag means LOTS more inventory AND the more stuff you have in it the more damage you do. I now want to start a petition to have MM dress up as said bag lady for Halloween. I can't believe this all came from my post. But its what happen when you mix random with brilliance, the likes of which you find here on the forums...oh yes, I forgot madness...and mom's tarts. I still don't think its too much to ask for undies. I mean, who wants to fight the apocalypse on day 5,682,981 and realize that they are still wearing the same underwear? It's that moment you realize that smell isn't the zombies and you just need a bath. Not a bath full of boobs though..that seems...I don't know, we need a new word that combines bewilderment, paranoia and sadness. I love this forum! Thanks all of you guys! Maybe they'll add a topless Madmole character to the game wearing the aformentioned net stockings and combat boots, and a purple thong; who rides his hog through the countryside selling lingerie out of his handbag. Be sure to get on his good side, you'll need his bag swinging superpowers to fight the bandits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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