Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[graphite]

Thinking about Creators non colliding digging zombie idea, i know i mentioned about no overall peformance gain which i still think is true but it does have a good point of accuarcy on getting to the wall without hitting gravel and without having to have some constant elevation pathfinding to static point.

 

So what if a ray was cast from the player picked in a random direction at a set distance that must be in terrain ?

 

I can think of some problems but i wanted to share the idea of moving the origin of raycasting to the player.

[Crater Creator]

This wouldn't work (see picture below). You have to consider a squillion possibilities to achieve a decent spawn behavior (e.g. trap damage from traps at the bottom of the pit, electricity (I don't think that you can handle this reliably)):

 

Imo it's not a 'robust' solution since you have to consider a lot of scenarios. To me, the underground spawns still look like a guaranty for more bugs and highly counter-intuitive zombie spawns.

 

Because after the fall of 100 Meters in the Pit and slicing by Blades and Spikes, there would be no Zombie

 

I understood Pille diagram as a player had just dug a shaft and hollowed out a cavern and then placed a forge.

 

Dependent on N S E W the ray originated from could cause issue with player placed block being passed the player.

 

Having no player place block in the path is problematic and you want to trace the least amount of rays possible i understand.

 

Okay. You guys found a genuine flaw in the proposed design. This is good. Progress!

 

New proposal: the ray coming from the edge of the world terminates when it first reaches a player placed block or an air block.

1. If the ray hits a player placed block first, the zombie spawns one block farther away than that, as previously described.
   
2. If the ray hits an air block first, the zombie spawns two blocks farther away than the air block.
   

 

This should fix both the 'zombie should've fallen and died' problem and the 'ray reached all the way to the player' problem. I feel like someone may have proposed that the ray stop at air blocks earlier, but shoot, that must be 10 pages ago by now.

[graphite]

Okay. You guys found a genuine flaw in the proposed design. This is good. Progress!

 

New proposal: the ray coming from the edge of the world terminates when it first reaches a player placed block or an air block.

1. If the ray hits a player placed block first, the zombie spawns one block farther away than that, as previously described.
   
2. If the ray hits an air block first, the zombie spawns two blocks farther away than the air block.
   

 

This should fix both the 'zombie should've fallen and died' problem and the 'ray reached all the way to the player' problem. I feel like someone may have proposed that the ray stop at air blocks earlier, but shoot, that must be 10 pages ago by now.

 

You could be in side of a mountain and the ray has loads of airblocks to shoot though and the player is still technically underground.

 

You are still going to need some complexity to descision making on where to spawn with this so i am not sure if it is better to use player as origin for ray.

 

I want to keep this idea alive for as many ideas as possible to be considered is a good thing but it isnt looking good at its current state.

[Crater Creator]

Inside the rocks ?

 

As they come in.

 

When a block is damaged, the cracked decal is drawn on all sides of the block. So you can see which block they're breaking.

 

1. You can get in close where they're attacking, and melee them as soon as they break through the first block.
   
2. You can lie in wait from a safer distance, and shoot them with ranged weapons when they break through.
   
3. You can set up active defenses like turrets to engage as soon as the zombie shows its face.
   
4. You can keep repairing the block(s) they're damaging faster than they can damage it.
   
5. You can build a smaller inner sanctum/keep within your base from which to mount your counterattack.
   
6. You can redirect the zombies away from your base by going topside or otherwise escaping.
   

 

I consider some items on this list more fun than others, but the thing is these are all reactions you can have to a surface base attack, too. Your favorite tactic may be more difficult because you are underground, but you are not defenseless.

[Obsessive Compulsive]

I don't know what you guys are doing but since this is now 3 years of this, I will give you some code. Here is the code you can use to fix the zombie spawn...

 

Add an internal number to the POI on generation and all zombies spawned by that poi get a timer on their initial trigger attached to the poi.

 

public int TimeBetweenSpawns = 15;

 

System.Timers.Timer t = new System.Timers.Timer();

int d = (TimeBetweenSpawns * 60000);

t.Interval = d;

t.Start();

t.Elapsed += new ElapsedEventHandler(RespawnOpen);

 

Setup RespawnOpen to be triggered by a player entering the space. Simple Vertex triangulation you are doing anyways...I am sure your base code is a little different in its composure but this isn't a hard thing to fix guys. NO EXCUSE for this to be in the experimental build for weeks. What is it you are doing?

 

Your fix in the first place was insane, you just upped the distance. Is that really the logic guys are using for coding purposes?

[Royal Deluxe]

As they come in.

 

When a block is damaged, the cracked decal is drawn on all sides of the block. So you can see which block they're breaking.

 

1. You can get in close where they're attacking, and melee them as soon as they break through the first block.
   
2. You can lie in wait from a safer distance, and shoot them with ranged weapons when they break through.
   
3. You can set up active defenses like turrets to engage as soon as the zombie shows its face.
   
4. You can keep repairing the block(s) they're damaging faster than they can damage it.
   
5. You can build a smaller inner sanctum/keep within your base from which to mount your counterattack.
   
6. You can redirect the zombies away from your base by going topside or otherwise escaping.
   

 

I consider some items on this list more fun than others, but the thing is these are all reactions you can have to a surface base attack, too. Your favorite tactic may be more difficult because you are underground, but you are not defenseless.

 

Means i can wait until they broke my Forges/Crates or i can Leave my Bunker and run around during the Horde night.

Sounds not very funny

[Doombringer101]

Move your crates and stations off the exterior walls, pretty simple.

[Ouch Quit It]

I don't know what you guys are doing but since this is now 3 years of this, I will give you some code. Here is the code you can use to fix the zombie spawn...

 

Add an internal number to the POI on generation and all zombies spawned by that poi get a timer on their initial trigger attached to the poi.

 

public int TimeBetweenSpawns = 15;

 

System.Timers.Timer t = new System.Timers.Timer();

int d = (TimeBetweenSpawns * 60000);

t.Interval = d;

t.Start();

t.Elapsed += new ElapsedEventHandler(RespawnOpen);

 

Setup RespawnOpen to be triggered by a player entering the space. Simple Vertex triangulation you are doing anyways...I am sure your base code is a little different in its composure but this isn't a hard thing to fix guys. NO EXCUSE for this to be in the experimental build for weeks. What is it you are doing?

 

Your fix in the first place was insane, you just upped the distance. Is that really the logic guys are using for coding purposes?

 

I was just saying to myself---Simple vertex triangulation is the key!! Thanks for backing me up!!!

 

Ouch

 

Coughs* VIDEO * Coughs

[Crater Creator]

Why should caves not have to account for stability? A big cave should need a stone ceiling, and really big caves need pillars, just like now. Remember, neither granite nor Rolands foundation blocks do anything different to what is below them. If a cave is unstable now it will be unstable with granite somewhere above. If it is stable now it will be stable with granite somewhere above

 

The difference between jackelmeyrs and my proposal is just that jackelmeyrs granite can be used as ceiling directly while my granite needs layers of normal stuff between it and the cave. But the cave ceiling just follows and must respect normal rules for the cave to be stable.

 

Oh, I'm not disputing any of that. I just thought Roland's claim that "Players could create underground lairs and tunnels without messing up or worrying about what they did above ground" could be interpreted in a way that overstated the actual effect.

[Darkfoxx117]

Means i can wait until they broke my Forges/Crates or i can Leave my Bunker and run around during the Horde night.

Sounds not very funny

 

Or you could redesign your base so all the important things are not against the walls and have sufficient defence's around.

[Ouch Quit It]

The last 30 or so pages of discussion really rely on 3 things!

 

1. SI actually works

 

2. Breadcrumb system actually works

 

3. Zombie spawn system actually works

 

Until these things are fixed and implemented in another iteration( love that word) of the game...this is all part of the exponentially growing wish list.

 

Ahh Negativity.......FEELS GOOD!!

 

Ouch

 

Lets see some video !!! 9 new team members...there has to be more than just artwork?

[Royal Deluxe]

Move your crates and stations off the exterior walls, pretty simple.

i only try to show the problems. Sure i can build my bases bigger, but we allready left the game i would play.

There was a time i asked for Diggers too, then i understand the drawbacks.

And understand me right, its not me who is the problem, as a modder i have no issues, 3 Milliseconds after this is in the game i add Inpenetrable blocks to my server. (or better said i import my flying prefabs = 100% safe)

 

But i guarantie you more than 10% of the player (who are not aware of modding) will abandon the game.

[graphite]

I don't know what you guys are doing but since this is now 3 years of this, I will give you some code. Here is the code you can use to fix the zombie spawn...

 

Add an internal number to the POI on generation and all zombies spawned by that poi get a timer on their initial trigger attached to the poi.

 

public int TimeBetweenSpawns = 15;

 

System.Timers.Timer t = new System.Timers.Timer();

int d = (TimeBetweenSpawns * 60000);

t.Interval = d;

t.Start();

t.Elapsed += new ElapsedEventHandler(RespawnOpen);

 

Setup RespawnOpen to be triggered by a player entering the space. Simple Vertex triangulation you are doing anyways...I am sure your base code is a little different in its composure but this isn't a hard thing to fix guys. NO EXCUSE for this to be in the experimental build for weeks. What is it you are doing?

 

Your fix in the first place was insane, you just upped the distance. Is that really the logic guys are using for coding purposes?

 

I am not a programmer but your reply will more than likely get lost in this thread.

 

I dont want a answer but why you are using a system timer instead of game tick i dont know and adding a unique ID for every POI in the map including random gen and testing it fully before its got to the stage of experimental doesnt sound a simple task also you dont know the overhead of adding a timer to each entitiy and how when the region is not active this is effected.

 

I dont want answers and i am not shooting you down but a less stressed post and in some place that is more visible might be an option as it could get lost in here

[Ouch Quit It]

I am not a programmer but your reply will more than likely get lost in this thread.

 

I dont want a answer but why you are using a system timer instead of game tick i dont know and adding a unique ID for every POI in the map including random gen and testing it fully before its got to the stage of experimental doesnt sound a simple task also you dont know the overhead of adding a timer to each entitiy and how when the region is not active this is effected.

 

I dont want answers and i am not shooting you down but a less stressed post and in some place that is more visible might be an option as it could get lost in here

 

You've given the game a tick ....from all the stress..Great!!

[Doombringer101]

i only try to show the problems. Sure i can build my bases bigger, but we allready left the game i would play.

There was a time i asked for Diggers too, then i understand the drawbacks.

And understand me right, its not me who is the problem, as a modder i have no issues, 3 Milliseconds after this is in the game i add Inpenetrable blocks to my server. (or better said i import my flying prefabs = 100% safe)

 

But i guarantie you more than 10% of the player (who are not aware of modding) will abandon the game.

 

Whereas I can't mod this sort of thing into the game (certainly not as easily as adding impenetrable blocks) so which solution is better letting you mod it out or toggle an option off or tell me 'too bad you just can't have it'?

As for worrying about other peoples ideas on the changes I say leave that up to them.

In terms of players leaving due to these changes, sure I accept some may but that is pure speculation.

I could say that it would draw new players who like the challenge or ones who find the current game far too easy, but again this would be pure speculation.

I am all for options (outside of xml) so the layman can turn on/off as desired.

[Darkfoxx117]

*Cough VIDEO COUGH*

[graphite]

You've given the game a tick ....from all the stress..Great!!

 

Ouch please describe a working system for SI that calculates from the top as i cannot get it to work only calculating from bedrock makes any sense.

[Jackelmyer]

Yep, the zeds could spawn inside your base (if I've understand Crater Creator's Diagram correctly)...

 

 

Bahahahaha. I love you Pille. My first big smile was from this drawing this morning. Thanks! 😂

[Doombringer101]

Bahahahaha. I love you Pille. My first big smile was from this drawing this morning. Thanks!

 

Agreed

[Aurelius]

Haha the player is jumping for joy as his new zombie friend spawns in

I like it

 

LOL I spit my drink at this - well played sir, well played...

 

-A

[Doombringer101]

LOL I spit my drink at this - well played sir, well played...

 

-A

 

My pleasure hehe

[Jackelmyer]

This whole discussion is why we need either sci-fi technology in the game or mystical forces at work.

 

That way we can explain away EVERYTHING as "maaaaagic" and just have a fun freaking game.

[Doombringer101]

This whole discussion is why we need either sci-fi technology in the game or mystical forces at work.

 

That way we can explain away EVERYTHING as "maaaaagic" and just have a fun freaking game.

 

Works for me and fits the Pimps view of Fun > x.

[Royal Deluxe]

I could say that it would draw new players who like the challenge or ones who find the current game far too easy.

 

Oh please!

where is that a challenge ?

Yes it makes it harder to skip Hordedays.

Only thing you archive is that baserock dwellers leave their screwed ex safe bases and spend the Hordenight on top of such a Zombie Slicer

and this is not harder, its easyer.

One of the reasons i hate the 7th day hordes so much is because they are more a Loot delivery service" as a threat.

[Doombringer101]

(Oh) please!

where is that a challenge ?

Yes it makes it harder to skip Hordedays.

Only thing you archive is that baserock dwellers leave their screwed ex safe bases and spend the Hordenight on top of such a Zombie Slicer

and this is not harder, its easyer.

One of the reasons i hate the 7th day hordes so much is because they are more a Loot delivery service" as a threat.

 

Again subjective, your fun does not equal someone else's fun.