Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Pille]

Looks like a teleporting zombie if you see it teleport. Let's compare this with the alternative of spawning the 'usual' distance away.

 

 

Note that the result is the same. If you can get the same results with less simulation to process, why wouldn't you? Just to spite your CPU?

 

This wouldn't work (see picture below). You have to consider a squillion possibilities to achieve a decent spawn behavior (e.g. trap damage from traps at the bottom of the pit, electricity (I don't think that you can handle this reliably)):

 

 

Imo it's not a 'robust' solution since you have to consider a lot of scenarios. To me, the underground spawns still look like a guaranty for more bugs and highly counter-intuitive zombie spawns.

[Royal Deluxe]

 

Note that the result is the same. If you can get the same results with less simulation to process, why wouldn't you? Just to spite your CPU?

 

Because after the fall of 100 Meters in the Pit and slicing by Blades and Spikes, there would be no Zombie

 

if this would be the real gameplay i forecast

at console forum: a ♥♥♥♥storm you never saw elsewhere

at Pc Forum: "No Blockdamage for Zombiehands Mod"

[meganoth]

Well, the dirt under your foundation is subject to SI, too. And dirt has a low SI of 2. So you couldn't make a very big foundation at all if you're relying on just a layer of dirt to hold it up.

 

Why should caves not have to account for stability? A big cave should need a stone ceiling, and really big caves need pillars, just like now. Remember, neither granite nor Rolands foundation blocks do anything different to what is below them. If a cave is unstable now it will be unstable with granite somewhere above. If it is stable now it will be stable with granite somewhere above

 

The difference between jackelmeyrs and my proposal is just that jackelmeyrs granite can be used as ceiling directly while my granite needs layers of normal stuff between it and the cave. But the cave ceiling just follows and must respect normal rules for the cave to be stable.

[Crater Creator]

The purpose of that image was to show that if we had dig-and-backfill zombies, then they could spawn closer to the player than previously thought without affecting gameplay.

 

Putting your stuff at risk by placing it up against your outer wall is not unique to underground bases. This is also a consideration/challenge for surface bases.

 

No way to defend = no fun

True... but not the case here.

[graphite]

i would not bother with player placed block but just trace a ray to player from edge of active region and then pick a spawn point at a set distance from player as long as it was in terrain.

 

i am still not sure this will work i like to spite the cpu and make it do the work lol

[Crater Creator]

Cave = only one way out (with maybe sleepers that close the entrance behind you)

Means i dont go in

 

Caves, not to be confused with PoIs. There are no sleepers in caves, as much as I'd like there to be (It was my number 1 question for Alpha 16 at one point.) I stay aware enough of my surroundings to know if a zombie senses me before I enter. Once I'm underground, any surface zombies I alert don't know how to get to me. The only real dangers I've found in caves that aren't present everywhere else are falling, and getting stuck because I didn't bring an adequate means to build or dig my way out.

[Royal Deluxe]

True... but not the case here.

In my imagination your Zombie Spawns inside my safe Zone

 

So he never need to cross my

3x Spikes

Steelwall

Fallpit (100 Meter deep trench)

again spikes

Blades

Turrets

 

Instead the zombie simply spawns inside the Plateau in my base.

Means the only defense is a passive Defense by removing all Rock Blocks inside my Base area

[Crater Creator]

Yep, the zeds could spawn inside your base (if I've understand Crater Creator's Diagram correctly)...

 

 

The ray is cast from the edge of the world inward toward the player. Pragmatically speaking the 'edge of the world' could be just outside of the loaded chunks. I'm not sure I'm reading your diagram correctly; are your base walls made solely out of stone?

[graphite]

In my imagination your Zombie Spawns inside my safe Zone

 

So he never need to cross my

3x Spikes

Steelwall

Fallpit (100 Meter deep trench)

again spikes

Blades

Turrets

 

Instead the zombie simply spawns inside the Plateau in my base.

Means the only defense is a passive Defense by removing all Rock Blocks inside my Base area

 

I see your point of why have defenses when zombie can spawn past them.

 

That is why i think some distance is needed to spawn in and for the zombie to be heard.

 

What i dont think is a problem is zombie on outside of your fortress trying to get in and you have to get them before they break your wall down.

[Crater Creator]

The most people build underground because they dont like to play architect.

Making the underground more interesting is one aim and ok for me.

But make it anoying like the surface (for players that dont want to play as architects) is in my opinion to much.

 

As you can see on my Screenshots i dont fear to build big. But many players want to play more a shooter than a Building game.

And even i doesnt like the idea of undefeatable Zombies in the rock.

 

Well I don't find the surface annoying, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

They're not "undefeatable." If I were a player that wanted to play more of a shooter than a building game, I would, you know, shoot them as they came in!

[Royal Deluxe]

Well I don't find the surface annoying, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

They're not "undefeatable." If I were a player that wanted to play more of a shooter than a building game, I would, you know, shoot them as they came in!

 

Inside the rocks ?

 

I make my Playerbases (and my Prefabs thought as playerbases) maximum 53x53 to give the spawner a fair chance to spawn zombies outside my perimeter.

The game need to consider that. Else every defense is so pointless like to fight the 7th day horde at all or using a crossbow since A16 Spawns all 3 meters glowing zombies.

[graphite]

I understood Pille diagram as a player had just dug a shaft and hollowed out a cavern and then placed a forge.

 

Dependent on N S E W the ray originated from could cause issue with player placed block being passed the player.

 

Having no player place block in the path is problematic and you want to trace the least amount of rays possible i understand.

[Pille]

@Crater Creator

 

See graphite's reply (especially the last paragraph):

 

I understood Pille diagram as a player had just dug a shaft and hollowed out a cavern and then placed a forge.

 

Dependent on N S E W the ray originated from could cause issue with player placed block being passed the player.

 

Having no player place block in the path is problematic and you want to trace the least amount of rays possible i understand.

 

 

The ray is cast from the edge of the world inward toward the player. Pragmatically speaking the 'edge of the world' could be just outside of the loaded chunks. I'm not sure I'm reading your diagram correctly; are your base walls made solely out of stone?

 

So, yes there are made solely out of stone (at least the blocks touched by the ray).

[graphite]

Regarding non colliding zombies

 

The way am thinking about resource saving is that it only extending the time they wont be used and not saving on them in total.

 

So you will not get more zombies on map because of it just lighten the load which can be offset by delayed spawning.

 

 

I hope you are all working on top down SI calculation it is driving me mad so please work it out.

 

It is bad enough Gaz wont let the base ingredient of the secret SI sauce go but not having a solution to top down calc makes it worse.

[meganoth]

In every movie the zs become a non threat so to speak. Human race always wins.

 

Not all zombie movies try to have that undercurrent of "the humans are always the bigger threat". I'll just cite "Dead Snow" as counter example. And "World War Z" too I think

 

Why. Not because tfp failed. But because the gamer smarted the game. Countered and neutralised all threats.

 

Again it don't matter if TFP add in the most challenging z ever.

 

Oh yes, it matters. Players overcome the threads only because the game designers want them to be able to do that. If TFP really wanted to make an invincible zombie, they could do that.

[sillls]

The purpose of that image was to show that if we had dig-and-backfill zombies, then they could spawn closer to the player than previously thought without affecting gameplay.

 

Putting your stuff at risk by placing it up against your outer wall is not unique to underground bases. This is also a consideration/challenge for surface bases.

 

 

True... but not the case here.

 

The green blocks lining the side wall is the way a build by base. Not because it can stop zombies but because it works better that way to store stuff.

[sillls]

I am really hoping that Madmole of another Rep from TFP's comes and gives us the sit-rep on this new zombie spawning underground thing.

 

Maybe rather than just through it in the game, give us several scenarios and let us vote on the best one. That would be best imho.

[graphite]

I am really hoping that Madmole of another Rep from TFP's comes and gives us the sit-rep on this new zombie spawning underground thing.

 

Maybe rather than just through it in the game, give us several scenarios and let us vote on the best one. That would be best imho.

 

I hope they can give us some insight into the development to but IMHO the final descision making should be made by TFP as they have the 360 degrees ground penetrating radar that we dont have.

 

So voting is another thing that can lead to disapointment for those who dont understand it is just one of many tools for feedback amongst many different tools like diagnostics and performance and finally gameplay.

[Royal Deluxe]

I am really hoping that Madmole of another Rep from TFP's comes and gives us the sit-rep on this new zombie spawning underground thing.

Maybe rather than just through it in the game, give us several scenarios and let us vote on the best one. That would be best imho.

First give the players some options..

0---7---14---21---28 Days for Horde

Randomize inside the given days []

0%---25%--50%---75%-100%---150%---200% Zombie Blockdamage

 

Digger zombies on/off []

Teleporter zombies on/off []

Ghosting zombies on/off []

Ninjaspawn zombies on/off []

Invisible zombies on/off []

Invincible zombies on/off []

Random Base Collapse on/off []

Kill all players all 5 Seconds on/off []

 

and then do what you want about that topic because we can remove the whole anoying part of the game.

 

Sorry that i contribute so much at this topic, but i really fear that my beloved game get screwed beyond playability.

[Lonestarcanuck]

just give us these to harass the underground dwellers:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23071[/ATTACH]

[graphite]

First give the players some options..

0---7---14---21---28 Days for Horde

Randomize inside the given days []

 

Digger zombies on/off []

0%---25%--50%---75%-100%---150%---200% Zombie Blockdamage

 

and then do what you want about that topic because we can remove the whole anoying part of the game.

 

Problem being is that people will turn it off the feature wont get developed fully because the audience is a unknown quanity.

 

If players dislike or like something they can join the community and add to the feedback so anything that reduces that is not a good idea in my opinion.

 

Even if they hate something and join to display that then fine as long as it is not some rage rant there might be something of use and other players will describe there counters which to me is all useful feedback.

 

Worse thing that happens is change of a feature by developers where it was either at a deadend or heading that way for gameplay exhaustion issues or performance related issues these are the hardest for playerbase to overcome i think.

[Royal Deluxe]

The basegame is allready nearly unplayable without mods

But, i hope that this are all temporary issues because of EA

But sure, you can have feedback

 

* As soon as you start to play you need a Wrench and a minibike, as soon as you have them you can start playing sensefull, but the same moment game is over, you reached all you need.

* Glowing Zombiecops all 5 meters after a few Gamestages = There is no sense to use any other wepons as an AK/Sniper

* Ninjaspawn in your neck

* Steelblock ripping zombies that destroy a Defense you build in 50 Hours within minutes

* Endless Hordenights that make no sense to fight

* Weather Survival is only anoying Clothing on/off all feeled 2 minutes

* ...

 

do i need to proceed ?

 

Finally A16 is for me Vanilla not playable, except for testplays i dont care about this issues.

[graphite]

The basegame is allready nearly unplayable without mods

 

But, i hope that this are all temporary issues because of EA

 

But you moved over to the darkside and started modding you know it is not easy to stop.

 

Even if they did add a lot of options there would be still something you might feel like you can mod.

 

Sorry one way ticket once you read the xml configs there is no turning back

[Royal Deluxe]

I know

My Deko Prefabs

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?75346-MOD-Prefab-Set-Royals-deko-prefab-set

My Poi Prefabs i work on (this moment)

My mod is on break until 16.4 and my Poi prefabs are done.

 

The problem is that you are right that "mod it if you dont like it" should not be the answer.

But the last 2 weeks i get the feeling that there is a witch hunt against bedrock dwellers.

 

If i dwell on baserock because

Surface has no needs for me and

the 7th day Horde is only anoying me,

Digging Zombies should be the last we need to talk about.

[Crater Creator]

I just dont think a digging z or magical digging z is that answer. Besides MM not liking holes everywhere due to a digging z also in which he stated in one of his videos. There are lots of other ideas that are better.

 

Madmole has also said the zombies are and always will be the main antagonists. So I think it's the most sensible choice for zombies to be part of the answer. You don't want them to dig and leave tunnels, dig and not leave tunnels, or spawn up close to your base, which would seem to be the only options to get zombies to your underground base. So we're at an impasse - we simply want different things.

 

In every movie the zs become a non threat so to speak. Human race always wins.

 

While movies can inspire gameplay, there are also differences. Movies have an ending, and this game does not, at least for now. The survivor(s) winning the game in a few hours like in a movie would be one play style, but not the only one. Consider Royal Deluxe's play style: he mentioned he plays 'dead is dead'. I'm sure he finds it every bit as thrilling and compelling as someone role playing that they're the main character in a zombie movie.

 

The game needs challenges for sure but digging z isn't it. You might get 2 min of enjoyment challenge but after that hmmm back to not being challenged again.

 

Why. Not because tfp failed. But because the gamer smarted the game. Countered and neutralised all threats.

 

Again it don't matter if TFP add in the most challenging z ever. It will always be other players (PvP which I hate) That you can never counter for because that is the difference between alive and dead.

 

The players will come up with a way to counter everything the game can throw at them! Well, no, that's not the case for every game. It's possible to design a game where the player can't counter everything, and you don't have to brutalize the player with ridiculous rules to do it, either: I refer you again to rock-paper-scissors. Too simple? Okay then, chess against Deep Blue.

 

Me, I derive more satisfaction from winning through sheer effort than by finding a way around the challenge the designer intended for me. Sure, I feel clever coming up with the latter the first time, but after that the victory feels hollow. I've discovered how the game is broken, and now I can't put that genie back in the bottle. That's my "back to not being challenged again" moment: I can only have a balanced, challenging game after that by hamstringing myself, pretending the game isn't the way it is.