A16 (stable) rwgmixer re done top to bottom! (refined)

[Tin]

Yes the file had thr right name otherwise the game wouldn´t start.

 

 

 

But this could be my problem.

I was is the woods and traveled to a trader outpost in the near then i collected stones and wood and saw the new animal population.

Maybe i was not travelling far enough...never thought about that. :-/

 

Yeah I was grasping at straws trying to figure out why it wasn't working for you. Let me know if you still haven't seen any zeds. Sometimes, depending on the issue, it'll flag you have an issue but it doesn't pop up the DM screen. So unless you scroll through it you can miss it.

 

xD No biggie happens.

[Qyzer]

Using the RWGMIxer with compopack (plus your biomes and animals (and the nomad mods which shouldn't matter at all), I got a map that more closely resembles Thousand Needles in WoW. Giant spikes with POIs on top. I know this isn't desired behavior, but the wife and I decided to go with it and it's been fun. The seed is Qyzer, but I don't know if it's because my server had a problem or just that my handle as the seed is just that funky. I'm actually somewhat curious if there is a way to make this happen again, because it's an interesting twist when you have to craft 20 ladders to get to the first trader and the roads become more like the great walls of China (though the actual city hubs are generally flat and together). So far only that seed has been funky and the rest of my attempts have been more "normal." Please keep up the good work and don't take this as a complaint. It's nice to get something out of the ordinary from time to time.

[Tin]

Using the RWGMIxer with compopack (plus your biomes and animals (and the nomad mods which shouldn't matter at all), I got a map that more closely resembles Thousand Needles in WoW. Giant spikes with POIs on top. I know this isn't desired behavior, but the wife and I decided to go with it and it's been fun. The seed is Qyzer, but I don't know if it's because my server had a problem or just that my handle as the seed is just that funky. I'm actually somewhat curious if there is a way to make this happen again, because it's an interesting twist when you have to craft 20 ladders to get to the first trader and the roads become more like the great walls of China (though the actual city hubs are generally flat and together). So far only that seed has been funky and the rest of my attempts have been more "normal." Please keep up the good work and don't take this as a complaint. It's nice to get something out of the ordinary from time to time.

 

Yeah, I have found this periodically happens. Just some seeds produce a unique signature that the terrain generator in general doesn't like or likes, depending on how you look at it. I've tried to control it the best I can but it's built into the system itself.. somewhere. heh no matter how many seeds I run a terrain gen through it will always produce something funky eventually. xD

 

In fact I am running into this issue right now with a new terrain gen I am working on. The hub system doesn't like the terrain gen so I am trying to find a way to make them play nice or they are getting a "Time Out" if they keep it up ;p

 

and TY for the encouragement!

[YseGuy]

Could you make your rwgmixer available without the additional prefabs? I'd like to give it a try with an otherwise vanilla game.

[Tin]

Could you make your rwgmixer available without the additional prefabs? I'd like to give it a try with an otherwise vanilla game.

 

Yep give me some time to set it up... like a day or two. I am just in the middle of bashing my head against the wall xD trying to make something work. I'll PM you when I have it ready for DL

[Bipolar Bear]

Terrain gen's handling of large numbers

 

Hey Tin,

 

I've been following this thread, Clockwork Orange's and YerghaizVerot's for a couple of weeks now. You people got me hooked into digging into RWG and libnoise and it's been a lot of fun. Great work from you people, really inspiring.

 

One thing I started noticing when getting into grip with the terrain gen is that it doesn't like when values go outside the bounds of the terrain.

 

Here's how it works:

 

The terrain gen generates terrain for values between (and including) -28 (5m) - +190 (223m), after scaling. -1 (32m) and lower is water, 0 (33m) is the water's edge, 1 (34m) and higher is land.

 

Values outside these bounds are folded back (like a fold back guitar distortion), which means that it subtracts any value above the maximum, or adds any value below the the minimum. So -29 will become -27, -30 -> -26, 191 -> 189, 192 -> 188, etc. The result is odd bubbles on lake bottoms, crater like structures on mountains and sharp edges all around these.

 

There's an easy way to prevent this and a nice way to show where this happens that can be used to bring the output of the generator modules in check.

 

To prevent going outside these bounds, you propbably already guessed it, is to add a ClampOutput between the final scaler and output:

 

<module name="scaleBiasOutput" type="ScaleBiasOutput">
<property name="sourceModule" value="landMntWater"/>
<property name="scale" value="255"/>
</module>

<module name="clampOutput" type="ClampOutput">
<property name="sourceModule" value="scaleBiasOutput"/>
<property name="bounds" value="-28,190"/>
</module>

<output module="clampOutput"/>

 

This will result in flat terrain at the maximums instead of weird distortions.

 

To make these visible in the RWG previewer I replace the biomes_spawn_rules section with this:

 

<biome_spawn_rules>
	<biome_spawn_rule name="water">
		<terrain_generator range="-28,0"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="pine_forest">
		<terrain_generator range="0, 38"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="forest">
		<terrain_generator range="38,76"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="plains">
		<terrain_generator range="76, 114"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="desert">
		<terrain_generator range="114, 152"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="snow">
		<terrain_generator range="152, 190"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="burnt_forest">
		<terrain_generator range="-10000,-28"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="wasteland">
		<terrain_generator range="190,10000"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="radiated">
		<distance_from_center range="10000,12000"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>
</biome_spawn_rules>

 

It will really bring out the flow of the terrain in the previewer but also result in purple areas where you're going too low and orange areas where you're going too high.

 

You may want to try this to see if it helps eliminating the oddities you're seeing in the terrain sometimes.

 

Also, did you know you don't have to quit the previewer to try new values? Just make the changes in the XML file, save it and press refresh in the previewer. Finding this out was a real Eureka moment for me

 

Have fun!

[Tin]

Hey Tin,

 

I've been following this thread, Clockwork Orange's and YerghaizVerot's for a couple of weeks now. You people got me hooked into digging into RWG and libnoise and it's been a lot of fun. Great work from you people, really inspiring.

 

One thing I started noticing when getting into grip with the terrain gen is that it doesn't like when values go outside the bounds of the terrain.

 

Here's how it works:

 

The terrain gen generates terrain for values between (and including) -28 (5m) - +190 (223m), after scaling. -1 (32m) and lower is water, 0 (33m) is the water's edge, 1 (34m) and higher is land.

 

Values outside these bounds are folded back (like a fold back guitar distortion), which means that it subtracts any value above the maximum, or adds any value below the the minimum. So -29 will become -27, -30 -> -26, 191 -> 189, 192 -> 188, etc. The result is odd bubbles on lake bottoms, crater like structures on mountains and sharp edges all around these.

 

There's an easy way to prevent this and a nice way to show where this happens that can be used to bring the output of the generator modules in check.

 

To prevent going outside these bounds, you propbably already guessed it, is to add a ClampOutput between the final scaler and output:

 

<module name="scaleBiasOutput" type="ScaleBiasOutput">
<property name="sourceModule" value="landMntWater"/>
<property name="scale" value="255"/>
</module>

<module name="clampOutput" type="ClampOutput">
<property name="sourceModule" value="scaleBiasOutput"/>
<property name="bounds" value="-28,190"/>
</module>

<output module="clampOutput"/>

 

This will result in flat terrain at the maximums instead of weird distortions.

 

To make these visible in the RWG previewer I replace the biomes_spawn_rules section with this:

 

<biome_spawn_rules>
	<biome_spawn_rule name="water">
		<terrain_generator range="-28,0"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="pine_forest">
		<terrain_generator range="0, 38"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="forest">
		<terrain_generator range="38,76"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="plains">
		<terrain_generator range="76, 114"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="desert">
		<terrain_generator range="114, 152"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="snow">
		<terrain_generator range="152, 190"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="burnt_forest">
		<terrain_generator range="-10000,-28"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="wasteland">
		<terrain_generator range="190,10000"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="radiated">
		<distance_from_center range="10000,12000"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>
</biome_spawn_rules>

 

It will really bring out the flow of the terrain in the previewer but also result in purple areas where you're going too low and orange areas where you're going too high.

 

You may want to try this to see if it helps eliminating the oddities you're seeing in the terrain sometimes.

 

Also, did you know you don't have to quit the previewer to try new values? Just make the changes in the XML file, save it and press refresh in the previewer. Finding this out was a real Eureka moment for me

 

Have fun!

 

Hehe my mountains are already limited with the scale output and a clamp outout with a bounds. So it's very unlikely (not that it can't happen) you will generate a mountain beyond a set maximum size.

 

The thing about basing all the biomes off of the height scale is that I won't use the dithering effect between biomes... Not that is a big deal to some. You also can get into a situation that some seeds will have vast areas of one biome pending on how the seed affected the terrain. Again it works well in some situations and not really a big deal especially if that's how you want the random factor to affect the biomes.

 

One thing I do find curious is your "burnt forest" entry at -10k, -28 do you even generate the burnt forest anymore?

And your "wasteland" entry you really don't need to set the max range to 10k. 255 is more than adequate (I could be wrong.. I don't know everything but it just seems off).

 

Yeah I don't really use the previewer all that much till I get close to getting what I want from actually getting in the game and flying around to get a general idea of how everything is going. Just loads to slow and uptakes a lot of memory. At the moment I can generate a terrain in well under a minute and be in the game flying around .

 

Just make a "micro hub" in your rwgmixer.xml and your worlds will load up in no time.

 

Yeah If you read some of the fine print stuff in libnoise it states it has certain issues that it can't account for every combination of frequencies when used. I am pretty sure this is one of TFPs own personal modified variant of Lib but it probably has similar issues as well (atm).

 

Anyhow yeah! I like this and I actually hope more ppl get into it. I do a lot of just absurd things sometimes when messing with world generation just too see if it works. It's how I actually learned most of it before I even looked at Libnoise xD. I will look what you have and apply it in some of my test stuff it seems pretty interesting.

I would take a look at what Alphado-Jaki is doing since it looks like he (?) is using a lot of octave changes in their mixer since you're referencing sound waves which is a good approach as well.

[Bipolar Bear]

Oooh no no, the biomes edit is purely for use in the previewer. It's for mapping biome colors to height values. Purple for too low values, blue for water, greens (dark, middle light) for land, yellow and white for mountains and orange for too high values. They don't make sense at all in game

 

 

Seed is "city1". See the orange spot on the mountains in the top right? This is where bad stuff happens. This was using your generator, except for adding the the "-28, 190" bound to cap at max instead of letting it fold back.

[Tin]

Oooh no no, the biomes edit is purely for use in the previewer. It's for mapping biome colors to height values. Purple for too low values, blue for water, greens (dark, middle light) for land, yellow and white for mountains and orange for too high values. They don't make sense at all in game

 

Hehe, I was kinda wondering what was going on with it. I was a bit but I was like "wth I'll see what it does"

[Tin]

Hehe my mountains are already limited with the scale output and a clamp outout with a bounds. So it's very unlikely (not that it can't happen) you will generate a mountain beyond a set maximum size.

 

The thing about basing all the biomes off of the height scale is that I won't use the dithering effect between biomes... Not that is a big deal to some. You also can get into a situation that some seeds will have vast areas of one biome pending on how the seed affected the terrain. Again it works well in some situations and not really a big deal especially if that's how you want the random factor to affect the biomes.

 

One thing I do find curious is your "burnt forest" entry at -10k, -28 do you even generate the burnt forest anymore?

And your "wasteland" entry you really don't need to set the max range to 10k. 255 is more than adequate (I could be wrong.. I don't know everything but it just seems off).

 

Yeah I don't really use the previewer all that much till I get close to getting what I want from actually getting in the game and flying around to get a general idea of how everything is going. Just loads to slow and uptakes a lot of memory. At the moment I can generate a terrain in well under a minute and be in the game flying around .

 

Just make a "micro hub" in your rwgmixer.xml and your worlds will load up in no time.

 

Yeah If you read some of the fine print stuff in libnoise it states it has certain issues that it can't account for every combination of frequencies when used. I am pretty sure this is one of TFPs own personal modified variant of Lib but it probably has similar issues as well (atm).

 

Anyhow yeah! I like this and I actually hope more ppl get into it. I do a lot of just absurd things sometimes when messing with world generation just too see if it works. It's how I actually learned most of it before I even looked at Libnoise xD. I will look what you have and apply it in some of my test stuff it seems pretty interesting.

I would take a look at what Alphado-Jaki is doing since it looks like he (?) is using a lot of octave changes in their mixer since you're referencing sound waves which is a good approach as well.

 

One thing I forgot to mention. The clamp output I use individually in each set of module so no need for a final clamp out put module at the end. I don't know how the others are handling it.

[Henshaw]

Hey, Tin.

 

Big thanks for your continued work on deciphering the RWG for us!

 

Am I understanding the first post correctly, that there is no "Vanilla Prefabs" version, but only one with the Compo Pack? I don't use any extra prefabs (personal preference), so that would rule out your RWG from my use... If this is the case, is there a possibility to get a "Vanilla Prefabs" version for A16.2 (The experimental is according to Roland going stable unchanged)?

[Tin]

Hey, Tin.

 

Big thanks for your continued work on deciphering the RWG for us!

 

Am I understanding the first post correctly, that there is no "Vanilla Prefabs" version, but only one with the Compo Pack? I don't use any extra prefabs (personal preference), so that would rule out your RWG from my use... If this is the case, is there a possibility to get a "Vanilla Prefabs" version for A16.2 (The experimental is according to Roland going stable unchanged)?

 

Yeah nothing from a16.2 changed from ex to "stable". Yeah I am working on a vanilla prefab version but I am also tweaking another terrain gen as well so it may take a bit I'll add you to the list of ppl I need to pm xD. Probably from here on out I'll make two rwgmixers and put them in the same folder so ppl can choose which they want.

[LewZephyr]

Yeah nothing from a16.2 changed from ex to "stable". Yeah I am working on a vanilla prefab version but I am also tweaking another terrain gen as well so it may take a bit I'll add you to the list of ppl I need to pm xD. Probably from here on out I'll make two rwgmixers and put them in the same folder so ppl can choose which they want.

 

Are the:

 

Biomes and weather revamp

 

More Animals than A16 but less than A15

 

New Spawning system for A16

 

 

All good for A16.2?

 

Thanks.

[Tin]

Are the:

 

Biomes and weather revamp

 

More Animals than A16 but less than A15

 

New Spawning system for A16

 

 

All good for A16.2?

 

Thanks.

 

So far. I haven't had any issue myself

[LewZephyr]

So far. I haven't had any issue myself

 

TY for the quick response. And of course for all the hard work.

[Tin]

TY for the quick response. And of course for all the hard work.

 

No worries!

Got some new things cooking. So will hopefully have some new additions soon.

And TY

[Henshaw]

Yeah nothing from a16.2 changed from ex to "stable". Yeah I am working on a vanilla prefab version but I am also tweaking another terrain gen as well so it may take a bit I'll add you to the list of ppl I need to pm xD. Probably from here on out I'll make two rwgmixers and put them in the same folder so ppl can choose which they want.

 

Thank you very much for the reply, and for considering my request. No hurry. :-)

 

I was using your "No Water" RWG for A15, after removing all other biomes than Desert, Burnt Forest and Wasteland. It was perfect for my purposes. Can't wait to see your interpretation in action for this Alpha aswell.

[Tin]

Thank you very much for the reply, and for considering my request. No hurry. :-)

 

I was using your "No Water" RWG for A15, after removing all other biomes than Desert, Burnt Forest and Wasteland. It was perfect for my purposes. Can't wait to see your interpretation in action for this Alpha aswell.

 

Getting close. What I am trying to do is make a no water terrain gen... then hand make some mini ponds and lakes. Then I'll put them into the poi wilderness rotation.... So it won't totally be a vanilla prefab folder. It'll be a vanilla + new water poi's.

 

I already made a mini lake poi 42x42 as a test poi.

[P3rf3ctVZer0]

@Tin does your mod currently work with 16.2?

[Tin]

@Tin does your mod currently work with 16.2?

 

Yes! Haven't had an issue with the update to 16.2

[P3rf3ctVZer0]

Any news when the furniture will stop being all funky? As much as I like alice and wonderland furniture setup it looks well ... loony XD I mean the lore could be that the Zombie virus caused brain damage to the remaining survivors before the outbreak and they glued tables to ceilings and turned the fridges to face west XD

[Tin]

Any news when the furniture will stop being all funky? As much as I like alice and wonderland furniture setup it looks well ... loony XD I mean the lore could be that the Zombie virus caused brain damage to the remaining survivors before the outbreak and they glued tables to ceilings and turned the fridges to face west XD

 

Lol yeah good enough lore for now xD. Last thing I read was Mag had about 60 left to go over. As soon as I get the release I'll post an update and change the op. Hopefully by then I'll have my new Terrain gen to go with it as well

[Tregal]

can i use your mod on top of clockworks mod?

[Tin]

can i use your mod on top of clockworks mod?

 

Which parts? If just the rwgmixer? maybe. You would probably need to copy the terrain generator from mine and paste into his. Can't say about the rest but doubt it.

[Tregal]

tks for the response. ill look into it