Overhaul True Survival

[xyth]

These new changes sound good, but its hard to tell until we can test how they come together. I am ready to test whenever you have a build.

[Spider]

These new changes sound good, but its hard to tell until we can test how they come together. I am ready to test whenever you have a build.

 

Weeks!

[jprasch]

Hello Spider!! After 700+ hours on 7DTD up to 15.1 I was ready to move on. I saw your mod and decided to give it a try. Your creativity is impressive. I like that you added followers and that the pace of the game is slow. Have you played State of Decay? SOD 2 looks to be awesome. They handle the managing of recruiting survivors and giving them tasks very well. In my opinion the best zombie survival games will include management of groups and have NPC adversaries. NPC's to feed, equip, lead, protect is a must. Infected NPC's need to turn into zombies. Survivor games need a society element and moral choices in them. Warring factions will good AI taking over land, destroying your base, killing your people is vital to keeping late game fun. I know the game is about zombies but only NPC's destroying your base makes zombies a threat late game. I'm not anti MP. In my experience players tend to band together rather than fight which only makes the game easier. Couple of questions for you: Is your mod good with alpha 15.1?, do your mod settings override my personal preferences?, what other mods or tools work with yours that you endorse?, I'm missing a lot of icons how can I fix that? Keep up the good work TFP should hire you as a subcontractor. Take care.

[Spider]

@jprasch-

Yes its a A15 Mod. What do you mean your personal preferences? The mod edits most of the xml's so if you changed stuff in there then installing my mod will over write it. Other mods can be used with it but combining them requires going into the xml's and merging the 2 codes. If you have downloaded the mod there is a Install Instruction file that comes with it. Sounds like you do not have the Mod Folder in the correct location. It goes in the same location as the Data Folder that contains the Config/Prefab Folders(the main 7d2d directory) . Thanks for trying the Mod

[Jolly]

Spider re your thoughts on progression. Those ideas sound pretty good. I guess I like to compress progression a bit in your mod. I've moved some forward a bit on my server so that you can do most things by lvl50-60 - which in your mod takes a long time to get to anyway. I also agree with a few comments above about the unlocks being less of a mystery for some things but I suppose the way we address that is just build all the work benches etc as a priority.

[Spider]

@Jolly-

All the perks that unlock recipes tell you what workbench the item is made on if any. Its in the description in the Skill Screen.

 

@magnus333-

Thanks for the feed back

 

Yes the Power Swing a feature in the mod. As in vanilla when you swing a weapon/tool with 0 stam the damage you do is greatly reduced but it does do damage. Nothing I can do about that. Power Swing does more damage, better chance to apply buffs, cost more Stamina and has a longer delay between swings.

 

I don't know why your horde didn't show up. I know on the Official Server they are always there on horde nights. It always seems like a lot of zombies when you first start up a game. The reason is every biome and poi zombie that can spawn are there because no one has killed any. Once you start killing some they have a delay before another will spawn so it feels less full when a map gets played on more lived in.

 

As I said above. All the perks that unlock recipes tell you what workbench the item is made on if any. Its in the description in the Skill Screen. Also I wanted to talk about this idea that because you learn something you should know everything to make it. Just because you learn to bake a cake doesn't mean you know how to make the sugar and flour. I can build a house but I couldn't build the nail gun I use to do it. Heck I can put new batteries in my TV remote but i cant make the remote or the batteries. Just because you learn how to make something doesn't mean you magically learn how to make all its parts. For Perks like the Crossbow you can buy that very early but you will have to loot, trade or purchase the Forged Iron you need to craft it but if you find a Crossbow in loot and want to repair it or take it apart to combine it with better parts then you need the recipe. The Spikes need a tool to build like many many other blocks in game. You also have a quest that explains how to use them. Also if you read the description on the Spike it tells you how to use them. So you know I have them like that so players cant instantly place spikes like walking backwards and placing spikes down to kite zombies.

 

Just about everything your asking for is already done. If your new to the Mod I can give you a one word suggestion "read". When you loot a new item and zombies aren't nibbling on your toes open your crafting menu and click on it then click recipes. Read the description of the item and look at the items that make it or that its used to craft. Every item is searchable from any crafting window. If you find a something that's missing a description or you think it can have a better one please let me know the item and post the new description and ill get it fixed.

[magnus333]

I'm not sure you are following on the swing issue. I just did a test against 5000 HP trees with the same axe and full stamina each time:

1) Hold left mouse button: 7.6s to finish chopping.

2) Hold right mouse button: 9.3s to finish chopping

3) Hold left & right mouse buttons: 3.9s to finish chopping.

 

Even with 0 stamina it is still faster to hold both buttons down to harvest than it is to only hold left mouse with full stamina.

 

The same thing works on zombies as well, using an iron club and holding both buttons down I was able to perma disorient a zombie and kill it in half the time vs using either left or right click alone.

 

As for recipes:

1) Hunter's Knife recipe does not mention needing a forge.

 

2) Wrench does not mention needing a forge.

 

3) Iron Arrows doesn't mention needing a forge for the heads. This one is kinda obvious but after doing the two above and then this one I just assumed none of the recipes mentioned which bench they needed but in fact I see now that virtually all of them mention which bench they need except the ones I happened to train this game (these three in this order).

 

4) I understand how the wood spikes work and why you made them work like that, they were extremely OP in vanilla, or at least they were (I haven't played vanilla in ages thanks to your mod). However this is precisely why I was bringing it up, the first thing I expect new players to do coming from vanilla is attempt to make wood spikes. I realize now that quest #21/21 explains how to use them but no one is going to read that before getting confused and wondering if the mod is broke. If not making a functional but weak version why not just put a level gate on the recipe around the time you expect the player to have a tool (10?). I'm just trying to make the mod more accessible to new people so they can enjoy it as much as I have.

 

 

As for my horde issue, I think it is because we always build bases on or next to huge lakes. Just sitting in the base and using command to list entities I see 0 zombies in the list while at the base at all times. Going to avoid water next time.

[xyth]

I decided while waiting "weeks" for the new build, I would see if I could track down why your mod is the only one I have found that spawned Z's in the starting area withing minutes. I tracked it down to the spawning.xml file. I took a copy of one of Valmods spawning.xml files and added your bandit code at the end to keep it line by line identical except for the specific values like delays and quantities, and the follower spawn lines. I used Notepad ++ compare function to insure line by line comparability. I made sure I used the same starting zone for each test (tested forest and wasteland).

 

Then, using your file, I pressed F1 and watch the spawn without moving my character an inch. Your file started spawning Z's almost immediately within visible range within 1.39 game minutes (time shown when pressing F1). It spawned 4 Z's by 1.89 game minutes. On the other hand, using Val's modified file, zero zombies spawned until well into the game afternoon. Huge difference. Both files spawn other entities, like deer correctly.

 

Not sure whats going on here, as a line by line compare shows minor differences in respawn rates and numbers. Your follower spawn lines are the big difference in the files. If I have time later I will edit in the follower lines into the Valmod based file and see if that changes anything.

[Spider]

Your looking for a game setting its not in the xml's. Like I have said before I have only seen the option on server config files. It looks like this

<property name="PlayerSafeZoneLevel"value="10" /><!-- If a player is less or equal this level he will create a safe zone (no enemies) when spawned -->
<property name="PlayerSafeZoneHours"value="12" /><!-- Hours in world time this safe zone exists -->	

I dont think its in the game options in SP, why I dont know it was at one time.

 

@magnus333-

Maybe it be better if you told me what you think the problem is with the Power Swing instead of making me guess. Your description on the swings looks about right. Of course doing two attacks does more damage than one attack, why wouldn't it? The power swing does slightly more damage so its going to be less hits but take more time because of the delay between swings. Also the Power Swing is mainly for fighting, it does much more Zombie head damage but only very slightly increases damage to materials. You can use this system for better melee. With this you can make melee combos, one quick hit then power swing then quick hit. There is nothing I can do about the fact that you can swing with no stamina, that's the basic game mechanics. Swinging a Tool/Weapon with no stam reduces the damage it does but it still does damage. I don't know I'm getting into the guts of the code I'll try and look into the the melee code maybe with SDX I can make it so you cant swing with no stamina.Thanks for reporting the other bugs I'll getm

Edited December 28, 2016 by Spider (see edit history)

[xyth]

Your looking for a game setting its not in the xml's.

 

@magnus333- Maybe it be better if you told me what you think the problem is with the Power Swing instead of making me guess.

 

Your missing my point Spider. That code doesn't exist in any mod, yet only your mod has this issue. If I substitute any other mods spawning.xml file into your mod, the problem goes away. I loaded a fresh spawning.xml from your master file and retried it, same instaspawn in the starter zones. I then commented out the follower spawn lines in each of the started biomes and the insta spawn goes away. I'm not sure why those lines are causing the issue, maybe you have ideas to share. It might be because your Followers entity group is full of zombies for some reason.

 

As for the issue Magnus brought up, the "problem" is that your allowing a double swing when both mouse buttons are pressed together. To me, that's only a problem as it allows you to exploit the issue related to zero stamina, so you can fell trees and boulders at high speed without worrying about ever rechargeing stamina. Maybe preventing the game from accepting both button input at the same time isnt possible, but I think thats the issue he is pointing out to you. If its working as intended, just say so.

Edited December 28, 2016 by xyth
Updated info. (see edit history)

[jprasch]

Hi Spider thanks for responding to my questions. Loving the mod! Have no clue what SDX is but it seems like graphics in your mod are better compared to 15.1. Re-installed icons are there. My settings include very high Z spawning, 60 sec Z awareness, 120 min days, 100 % loot, 200% block strength. This is what I meant asking does your mod override my personal preferences. Thanks for making the game fun again. Bought 4 more copies to play with my sons. Sorry if I ask noob questions I'm clueless about the modding and program side of gaming.

[jprasch]

TFPs are gonna hear from me that my 4 new purchases of 7DTD are solely because of your mod.

[Spider]

@jprasch-

No problem man glad you are enjoying it. No the Mod is the code so you can still set the game up with what ever settings you want. I have suggested game settings in the Install File. If I could ask a question. Why do you do 200% block strength? Is it to make gathering resources take longer or do you do it to slow the zombies down breaking things?

[jprasch]

Spider. I went to 200% block strength primarily because in the vanilla game Zs were destroying my forts so easily that I spent more time on rebuilding than I liked which ate up scavenging and looting time even with 120 min days. It also made it more challenging to mine resources and break into safes. Tools leveled too fast. Being new to your mod I may adjust my settings. Definitely like how hard your mod is. Like the pace and leveling depth. Not a player who likes to restart every 80 days in becuz I've maxed out my skills. Late game 200% block strength does become a negative cuz Zs can't get in my Fort. That is why I hope for intelligent NPCs to attack me leaving me vulnerable to new Z attacks.

[Spider]

In next build Zombies will walk slower in the day time but will run in the shadows/dark. Maybe I can make them hit less hard in the day and harder in the shadows/dark also

[jprasch]

Personally I liked your fast walking Zs in the day

[jprasch]

Until your mod I never used sneak mode in the day so it was an improvement

[xyth]

I agree that the speed variance and speed settings are about perfect now. If daylight will slow them then hopefully its only like 10-20% off current speed.

[jprasch]

Like I wrote to the Fun Pimps, the game see-saws alot regarding difficulty based on player input. Things like Z speed could be a modded choice in game. I hope players don't convince Spider to turn his ultra creative mod back into the vanilla game.

[jprasch]

Can anyone recommend a good mod loader compatable with True Survival mod and alpha 15.1?

[jprasch]

I have heard talk of bandits in this thread are they in this mod or can bandits be brought in from some other mod?

[xyth]

Can anyone recommend a good mod loader compatable with True Survival mod and alpha 15.1?

 

This is the one I use, there is a forum post regarding it here: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?48537-The-7D2D-Mod-Launcher-A-Mod-Launcher-for-7-Days-to-Die

[xyth]

I finally was able to test and confirm the starting spawn issue was directly caused by there being lots of zombies listed in the entity group "followers". I cleaned that group up and the problem was resolved. My question is now how to balance out the followers left in the entity group. Should the spawn chance of the total members of the group equal 1.0? This is what I have for now until you decide on what it should look like:

 

<entitygroup name="Followers" >

<entity name="Maggi" prob="0.1" />

<entity name="Morgan" prob="0.1"/>

<entity name="DarrylDixon" prob="0.2" />

<entity name="Tara" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Rosita" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Carl" prob="0.08" />

<entity name="Rick" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Abraham" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Carol" prob="0.08"/>

</entitygroup>

 

Also, even though your spawning.xml has maxcount="1" for followers per zone, I got 3 spawned in visible range ( Rick, Morgan and DD). Any idea why? Not complaining, I felt the love on that startup.....

[Darkstardragon]

Like I wrote to the Fun Pimps, the game see-saws alot regarding difficulty based on player input. Things like Z speed could be a modded choice in game. I hope players don't convince Spider to turn his ultra creative mod back into the vanilla game.

 

Yea, i dont think you have to worry about that one lol.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I have heard talk of bandits in this thread are they in this mod or can bandits be brought in from some other mod?

 

There are bandits in the mod. They are geared toward higher level players.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Can anyone recommend a good mod loader compatable with True Survival mod and alpha 15.1?

 

Use the 7dtd modloader by sphereII xyth provided you the link above. The mod is already included in the modloader and updates itself.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Darkstardragon (see edit history)

[Darkstardragon]

I finally was able to test and confirm the starting spawn issue was directly caused by there being lots of zombies listed in the entity group "followers". I cleaned that group up and the problem was resolved. My question is now how to balance out the followers left in the entity group. Should the spawn chance of the total members of the group equal 1.0? This is what I have for now until you decide on what it should look like:

 

<entitygroup name="Followers" >

<entity name="Maggi" prob="0.1" />

<entity name="Morgan" prob="0.1"/>

<entity name="DarrylDixon" prob="0.2" />

<entity name="Tara" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Rosita" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Carl" prob="0.08" />

<entity name="Rick" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Abraham" prob="0.08"/>

<entity name="Carol" prob="0.08"/>

</entitygroup>

 

Also, even though your spawning.xml has maxcount="1" for followers per zone, I got 3 spawned in visible range ( Rick, Morgan and DD). Any idea why? Not complaining, I felt the love on that startup.....

 

Just set them all to 0.05 or whatever your preference is, above 0.05 there are way too many spawning.