The game has lost its thrill, it's all about crafting your gear now

[davdes]

-No more thrill hoping to be lucky enough to get a good lv 5-6 weapon or armor piece in the final lootbox of your tier 4-5-6 missions. Nope, this will lead you to find legendary parts in the final lootbox, which will enable you to craft your lv6 weapon or armor piece.

 

-No more thrill hoping to be lucky enough to get a good lv 5-6 weapon or armor piece from the trader's reward list. Nope, this will lead you to get all the same low quality loots from whatever mission difficulty tier you just accomplished.

 

-Now it's all about finding magazine pages for your perks, which you can find in whatever mission difficulty, or buy them. Get them until you can craft your top-end tier lv 6 weapon or armor piece. You can get all these also in low tier missions 1 and 2. No need to do hardcore tier 5 missions to get magazines, even not for getting legendary parts since you can get those also in tier 4 missions. Forget wasting your time in long and very hard tier 5 missions. Just rince and repeat tier 4 missions, which are way faster and easier than 5's.

 

-There's no thrill anymore in hoping to get a fat loot at low or mid level. Ex: ''Yeah I've got a tactical rifle at lv 10!'' Nope, not anymore sorry.''

My advice to bring the equilibrium back between a crafting which is essential but that the game doesn't only rely on to gear you, and looting, is:

 

-Let the crafting system as it is but remove the possibility for players to be able to craft lv 6 weapons and armors. Let it be like in the previous alpha 21, where you could only craft up to lv 5 weapon and armors maximum. And let the luck factor be alive, by forcing the players to raid and try to loot their lv 6 weapons and armors from the final mission lootbox, and also from the trader's reward list at the end of it. It's all about letting probability odd to get or not to get, still exists, by not removing probabilities completely from the loot tables while letting the crafting system be useful but not solely dependent.

 

''Jake: yes we finally made it to the final lootboxes. I'm so excited to see if I'm gonna get a nice fat level 6 upgrade from that tier 5 mission!''

''John: nope forget it, we're going to get a legendary part now, as for everytime. Hope you read enough magazines so far.''

''Jake: ah my excitement just went down, still I hope the trader's going to offer my a fat level 6 upgrade from that tier 5 mission!''

''John: nope forget it, it's gonna be the same freaking poor loots since tier 1 missions.''

''Jake: this is now soooooooo... thrilling-boring as hell!''

 

I don't feel like really playing anymore, neither my friend. Our excitement from chance-looting is gone.

 

I suggest that they could give you the option to be as it is now and also the option to mix it with the previous system, which was to craft up to 5 and possibility to find all tier weapons/armors in top-loots/rewards, at the creation menu of your game before its created. It would be a setting you could adjust right at the beginning, a free choice of how you wish to play your map.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by davdes
correcting sentences (see edit history)

[Syphon583]

You're going to get just as many players arguing for the ability to craft T6 weapons as there are against. The problem, IMO, is that while T6 weapons are referred to as "legendary", they don't certainly don't seem legendary. If TFP wishes to keep T6 the way it is now, then I would argue that we should be able to craft them. Nothing (other than slightly improved stats) makes T6 weapons special enough to be loot-only. And that is why the ability to craft them has been begged for by players for years.

[davdes]

5 minutes ago, Syphon583 said:

You're going to get just as many players arguing for the ability to craft T6 weapons as there are against. The problem, IMO, is that while T6 weapons are referred to as "legendary", they don't certainly don't seem legendary. If TFP wishes to keep T6 the way it is now, then I would argue that we should be able to craft them. Nothing (other than slightly improved stats) makes T6 weapons special enough to be loot-only. And that is why the ability to craft them has been begged for by players for years.

Equilibrium is the answer, from both crafting-looting. I believe what I suggested above is the sweet-spot, but I hear what you say. You know, it makes me think of like, doing raids in WoW and while you just killed bosses hoping to get a rare-hard-to-get loot just like in vanilla WoW, all you get is a freaking token which will later enable to to craft your piece with enough materials alongside (damn I hated that system in the expensions later!) Well, 7 days to die is like that now, linear, predictable and guaranteed to get your legendary part, no chance to not get one. Hope you get the picture from what I try to convey and sorry for the WoW comparison. Cheers friend!

[theFlu]

It'd be a lot less frustrating if TFP actually figured out what they want from it.

 

1) Become the best crafter in the wasteland with a lot of effort (implement something more significant than "loot 100 books"); crafting better stuff than anyone else, pre- or post-industrial collapse.

2) Craft scav/survivor style gear to keep yourself afloat as needed, but the best gear is from the industrial age and thus mostly in loot.

3) A combination of the above, where what you loot is also what you can craft. Without a difference at the top, there's no point in having a difference at the top...

 

Just pick one and implement it, don't try a new number every patch .. 😛

 

Couple options that might work for combinations..

1) Have players actually craft different gear from lootables. Sorta like "players are crafting pipe weapons, and finding industrial gear". But not significantly different in power, just looks and feel.

2) Have players craft the full set of current gear, but have differing path at the high levels with actual "legendaries", like borderlands. Have some fancy/funny effects to them and a matching name / lore to boot. Not necessarily stronger than anything we already have / can craft, but good usable sidegrades with decent utility effects.

 

This going back and forth over time is just ... the worst option.

[MirkoVawsk]

Go to a casino if you want to gamble.

[Urban Blackbear]

34 minutes ago, MirkoVawsk said:

Go to a casino if you want to gamble.

 

Nobody has asked for gambling. I can only speak for myself but I want to have many different ways to reward different playstyles. Be it through questing, looting, or crafting. 1.0 feels like I'm being forced into the role of Librarian of the Apocalypse if I want to do any real progression.

[warmer]

Random loot and quest loot was OP before. I think it feels a little tense now and I like it. I used to find a tier 6 something my first trip to the wasteland. I am honesty happy it's more difficult to acquire because it makes the attainment a lot more meaningful, and to me anytime you level up or achieve the next tier of something, that has to feel meaningful or leveling up something loses value. That to me is when "grind" sets in.

[theFlu]

31 minutes ago, Urban Blackbear said:

1.0 feels like I'm being forced into the role of Librarian of the Apocalypse if I want to do any real progression.

It's funny, that's exactly how it feels like, but then most the time the vendor sells something at least roughly as good anyway. The only real reward for ~30 hours of book looting is the slight upgrade of a Q6 over the Q5 whatnot.

 

The current system manages to both make me want the books, but also despise the pointlessness of them ... 😛 

[Grandpa Minion]

2 hours ago, davdes said:

-No more thrill hoping to be lucky enough to get a good lv 5-6 weapon or armor piece in the final lootbox of your tier 4-5-6 missions. Nope, this will lead you to find legendary parts in the final lootbox, which will enable you to craft your lv6 weapon or armor piece.

 

-No more thrill hoping to be lucky enough to get a good lv 5-6 weapon or armor piece from the trader's reward list. Nope, this will lead you to get all the same low quality loots from whatever mission difficulty tier you just accomplished.

 

-Now it's all about finding magazine pages for your perks, which you can find in whatever mission difficulty, or buy them. Get them until you can craft your top-end tier lv 6 weapon or armor piece. You can get all these also in low tier missions 1 and 2. No need to do hardcore tier 5 missions to get magazines, even not for getting legendary parts since you can get those also in tier 4 missions. Forget wasting your time in long and very hard tier 5 missions. Just rince and repeat tier 4 missions, which are way faster and easier than 5's.

 

-There's no thrill anymore in hoping to get a fat loot at low or mid level. Ex: ''Yeah I've got a tactical rifle at lv 10!'' Nope, not anymore sorry.''

My advice to bring the equilibrium back between a crafting which is essential but that the game doesn't only rely on to gear you, and looting, is:

 

 

 

The reason so many people play PVP in 7d2d is because those thrills...can never be taken away. There is no bigger thrill in this game than the thrill of raiding- pvp action taking.... what you need.

[warmer]

3 minutes ago, theFlu said:

 most the time the vendor sells something at least roughly as good anyway. The only real reward for ~30 hours of book looting is the slight upgrade of a Q6 over the Q5 whatnot.

This is why it doesn't really bother me about magazine There are multiple ways to get what you want. The magazine mechanic is another dopamine drip while playing, and that plays into the way progress feels. I think the ramp up/pacing is better overall for it. 

[theFlu]

33 minutes ago, warmer said:

This is why it doesn't really bother me about magazine There are multiple ways to get what you want.

Ye, although as all those ways are "do the quest loop" anyway, they can feel quite redundant. JaWoodle keeps swearing that the game is programmed to give you whatever you just crafted; nah, the progress of the alternate paths is just "properly" balanced, you'll have the same stuff whatever you do ..

[Urban Blackbear]

25 minutes ago, warmer said:

This is why it doesn't really bother me about magazine There are multiple ways to get what you want. The magazine mechanic is another dopamine drip while playing, and that plays into the way progress feels. I think the ramp up/pacing is better overall for it. 

 

It depends on how you spend your skill points. I don't usually specialize in one attribute early to mid-game so my points are spread out picking up useful skills across the attribute lines and building them up evenly over a playthrough. It created one of the most painful slogs I've ever drudged my way through. It's partially my own fault but it hasn't been a problem for me in any of the past alphas. I much prefer to have the quality of stuff I can make tied to my perk level in a skill and just acquiring schematics. I'm not sure why TFP disliked everyone looting bookstores over and over in one alpha and then decided to make everything a bookstore facsimile. As @theFlu mentioned earlier, this game has some identity issues.

[davdes]

5 hours ago, MirkoVawsk said:

Go to a casino if you want to gamble.

Ok, i didn't know all of World of Warcraft content was actually based on casino gambling. Tell that to Blizz.

4 hours ago, warmer said:

Random loot and quest loot was OP before. I think it feels a little tense now and I like it. I used to find a tier 6 something my first trip to the wasteland. I am honesty happy it's more difficult to acquire because it makes the attainment a lot more meaningful, and to me anytime you level up or achieve the next tier of something, that has to feel meaningful or leveling up something loses value. That to me is when "grind" sets in.

Yeah but now there's no point anymore in doing missions other than getting your legendary parts, which you can get by redeeming challenges, getting it in mission tier special bundles. Other than that, loot magazines in non-missions and buy them from traders. How nice.

[Riamus]

49 minutes ago, davdes said:

Ok, i didn't know all of World of Warcraft content was actually based on casino gambling. Tell that to Blizz.

Yeah but now there's no point anymore in doing missions other than getting your legendary parts, which you can get by redeeming challenges, getting it in mission tier special bundles. Other than that, loot magazines in non-missions and buy them from traders. How nice.

It all depends how you play the game.  Many people enjoy quests still.  And many people are still having a lot of fun with the game.  If you play any game for a long time, you're going to get bored of it after a while and need a break.  That's just how things work.  Take a break.  Do something else.  Then come back later.

[Suxar]

11 hours ago, davdes said:

No more thrill hoping to be lucky enough to get a good lv 5-6 weapon or armor piece in the final lootbox of your tier 4-5-6 missions.

Was it like that before? The easiest way to get all this was robbing cars scattered around the wasteland. You get on a bike, drive into the wasteland and run to inspect all the cars, in an hour you have a full inventory of weapons, tools and level 6 drones. You put all the modifications you found there, run to the merchant, get 5-6 stacks of money and go make shells.

[Riamus]

I do agree that the linear way of getting stuff now, compared to the RNG way before, is not as "exciting" when you find something.  However, I think it works fine for this game.  This isn't a game with a lot of things to really find.  You don't have endless variations of items with different stats and tons of different items to find.  It's very limited in this game, so it's not like WoW or Diablo and doesn't need to try and imitate those.  For this game, I don't really mind if it's RNG or linear.  It does get me to craft, which was something I didn't do much of in past alphas, so that's a benefit.  And it really isn't affecting how much I enjoy scavenging or questing.  No, I'm not going to find a bunch of Q6 stuff randomly around the map, but that isn't really a big deal.  As I said, there's not much to find to begin with.  But either option is fine by me.  And since they made the change, I don't expect they'll revert it.

[MirkoVawsk]

11 hours ago, davdes said:

Ok, i didn't know all of World of Warcraft content was actually based on casino gambling. Tell that to Blizz.

Brother if you want to play WoW then go do it. Not every game has to have the exact same way of doing things. Additionally Blizzard is an awful company that uses predatory practices. On top of all of that, WoW is BARELY ahead of Runescape...

Edited 11 hours ago by MirkoVawsk
Left out a word (see edit history)

[davdes]

2 hours ago, MirkoVawsk said:

Brother if you want to play WoW then go do it. Not every game has to have the exact same way of doing things. Additionally Blizzard is an awful company that uses predatory practices. On top of all of that, WoW is BARELY ahead of Runescape...

The radical answer of ''if you're unhappy go away''. Nah bro, I've been playing since Alpha 17 and been enjoying my time and I do care about the game and what it's becoming. The game prior to now, had a little RNG factor in it when it came to looting weapons/armors. I know Blizz is shiiit now. I suggest that they could give you the option to be as it is now and also the option to mix it with the previous system, which was to craft up to 5 and possibility to find all tier weapons/armors in top-loots/rewards, at the creation menu of your game before its created. It would be a setting you could adjust right at the beginning, a free choice of how you wish to play your map.

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

I do agree that the linear way of getting stuff now, compared to the RNG way before, is not as "exciting" when you find something.  However, I think it works fine for this game.  This isn't a game with a lot of things to really find.  You don't have endless variations of items with different stats and tons of different items to find.  It's very limited in this game, so it's not like WoW or Diablo and doesn't need to try and imitate those.  For this game, I don't really mind if it's RNG or linear.  It does get me to craft, which was something I didn't do much of in past alphas, so that's a benefit.  And it really isn't affecting how much I enjoy scavenging or questing.  No, I'm not going to find a bunch of Q6 stuff randomly around the map, but that isn't really a big deal.  As I said, there's not much to find to begin with.  But either option is fine by me.  And since they made the change, I don't expect they'll revert it.

I suggest that they could give you the option to be as it is now and also the option to mix it with the previous system, which was to craft up to 5 and possibility to find all tier weapons/armors in top-loots/rewards, at the creation menu of your game before its created. It would be a setting you could adjust right at the beginning, a free choice of how you wish to play your map.

18 hours ago, warmer said:

Random loot and quest loot was OP before. I think it feels a little tense now and I like it. I used to find a tier 6 something my first trip to the wasteland. I am honesty happy it's more difficult to acquire because it makes the attainment a lot more meaningful, and to me anytime you level up or achieve the next tier of something, that has to feel meaningful or leveling up something loses value. That to me is when "grind" sets in.

I suggest that they could give you the option to be as it is now and also the option to mix it with the previous system, which was to craft up to 5 and possibility to find all tier weapons/armors in top-loots/rewards, at the creation menu of your game before its created. It would be a setting you could adjust right at the beginning, a free choice of how you wish to play your map.

[rateds2k]

My main issue with the new way is there are so many legendary parts found. I have never even had to worry about it. Magazines are the only thing to worry about. I am like cool, I can make a level six now. I go to a storage and pull out 20 legendary parts

[Riamus]

48 minutes ago, davdes said:

I suggest that they could give you the option to be as it is now and also the option to mix it with the previous system, which was to craft up to 5 and possibility to find all tier weapons/armors in top-loots/rewards, at the creation menu of your game before its created. It would be a setting you could adjust right at the beginning, a free choice of how you wish to play your map.

Options are good, but there's a point where something just doesn't make sense as an option.  And I think that is true with this.  For PC players, you can use mods to get what you want.  If console players connecting to PC servers can use XML mods from those servers, it would be easy for such servers to set it up like you want.  We don't yet know if that would be an option for console players, though.  But a change like that isn't something that belongs in settings, imo.

[theFlu]

53 minutes ago, rateds2k said:

My main issue with the new way is there are so many legendary parts found.

And pulling them out of random cloth piles... doesn't really feel that legendary.

[Slingblade2040]

Well hopefully if they ever add in bosses to the game the legendary weapons will be boss drops only which would give us incentive to loot and go after the bosses in PoIs and keep the quality 6 weapons we can craft as something close to the legendary drops but not as close. Maybe keep have them do 20% less damage than legendary weapons.

 

Heck while they are at it make it so legendary weapons can be scrapped into legendary weapons parts so if RNG continues to screw us over as it does so often we can then use those weapon parts to craft a said legendary weapon which would of course require a schematic that can be purchased at the trader or found. Yes the legendary parts would be universal in crafting any legendary weapon.