These containers should be removed/nerfed from the game

[Unamelable]

I am now at a stage in the game where I can have high tier items. And the game has started spawning these ammo containers. Which ruins the entire balance of the game. Sure obviously we have to use firearms against green zombie variants. But it completely breaks the need for regular melee weapons. Why save ammo, and collect resources to craft them if you can find one box that gives resources for the whole team for a week in advance.

 

I really hope the developers are doing melee rework because it is unfair to add basic mechanics that by the end of the game become useless simply because against us now comes a horde of protected zombies.

 

Again I'll bring up the point about the chainsaw being ineffective in combat in this game, and you're being hit anyways. Since the chainsaw does not have any stun against zombies. If the developers are still pouring ammo on every building, what is the point of arguing chainsaw / drill as "the only effective weapon among melee" which should initially be used to cut down trees. But the chainsaw is useless for its primary purpose, simply because a steel axe does a better job than a tool that consumes fuel anyway.

 

Nerf specifically this type of containers, or don't spawn them end-game at all. It completely breaks the balance of firearms and kills the point of using melee.

Edited May 10 by Unamelable (see edit history)

[warmer]

WOW that is a lot of ammo for one chest.

What game stage/loot stage are you at when they show up?

[Vaeliorin]

It's the extra reward chest for doing an infested quest.

 

Also, you can certainly use melee endgame, even against rads/demos

Edited May 10 by Vaeliorin (see edit history)

[Riamus]

If you don't want the extra ammo, don't bother with infested quests.  The ammo crate will be in every infested quest.  It's the extra reward for fighting more zombies.

 

As far as balance goes, if you aren't swimming in ammo by end game even without these chests, you're doing something wrong.  Ammo is hardly difficult to find and is very easy to craft.  As far as melee in end game, I almost exclusively use melee throughout the game, switching to ranged only if I make a mistake and get myself into too much trouble or during horde night.

 

In short, there's nothing wrong with these chests.

[Javabean867]

This is the second post you mentioned using chainsaws on zombies.  Why?  They are a resource gathering tool.  They work slightly better than a steel axe, but not by much.   And the Auger blows IMHO, it used to be better when the mining books gave you a 1 shot ore bonus for collecting the entire series.

The only thing i can think the chainsaw would be good at is destroying limbs, and only because there is 5%/point in strength chance per hit of destroying limbs.  you could get a bunch of hits on a limb real quick, but you'll kill a zambee faster with a club or sledge.

 

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, Javabean867 said:

This is the second post you mentioned using chainsaws on zombies.  Why?  They are a resource gathering tool.  They work slightly better than a steel axe, but not by much.   And the Auger blows IMHO, it used to be better when the mining books gave you a 1 shot ore bonus for collecting the entire series.

The only thing i can think the chainsaw would be good at is destroying limbs, and only because there is 5%/point in strength chance per hit of destroying limbs.  you could get a bunch of hits on a limb real quick, but you'll kill a zambee faster with a club or sledge.

 

 

I have the feeling OP expected this to be a somewhat different game.

[Unamelable]

1 minute ago, Old Crow said:

 

I have the feeling OP expected this to be a somewhat different game.

If you have on title: 7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first-person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first

 

You expect that game gonna be limited in resources and act like survival horror. The game has the ability to craft ammo on its own, and I relied on the fact that the game would force you to craft ammo. But in the whole game I've never once crafted them since I always have plenty of them. And the presence of such crates kills the whole point of saving ammo.

If the game wants to be Action - please remove "survival horror" at first place because it is a deception of expectations.

Merchants give them after completing quests, you can buy them. And you can get them from absolutely any building as there are crates with provisions everywhere. Which is a fair reward for passing the plot. But these particular containers are overkill. After all you expect this game to be resource scarce. And the players will have to improvise. But specifically in this game it turns into a clowning around of Saints Row with a zombie mod.

[Unamelable]

Unturned and Project Zomboid have more of a survival horror element than 7 days to die
 

In Unturned, you can't craft ammo in any circumstances other than mods. Although you can haggle with NPCs in some maps, this is not the main way to earn resources and ammo. In Project Zomboid any venture is very risky as improper preparation can cost the life of a character. Ammo cannot be crafted now, but it is a valuable resource.

I repeat: its a VALUABLE RESOURCE. In 7 days to Die with the standard 100% loot rate I already have 2 full boxes of ammo that I don't know where to spend. In Project Zomboid, characters are forced to use melee because it is the best weapon against zombies.

 

And let's compare this again to 7 days to Die. The game in the end turns into an bootleg doom clone where it lacks for completeness of the picture skins on weapons to be similar to CSNZ.

[Riamus]

The game can be whatever it wants to be.  It doesn't need to limit ammo.  If you want less ammo, you can use a mod for that. Few people will not want this to be one of those games where you can barely use a gun because ammo is so limited.  And most wouldn't want it removed from crafting.

 

From your baby parts about things you want changed, it is clear you want a have different from what the devs want for vanilla.  Vanilla is intended to appeal to the first audience.  Mods are intended to be used to customize it for each group of people for what they want it to be.  Most of what you have commented on are niche suggestions that may appeal to you and some people but most either won't care about our won't want.

 

There isn't anything wrong with suggestions or asking for new stuff but you want a lot of changes and they are going out of early access really soon, so it isn't likely to see many changes beyond what is on their list already 

Edited May 10 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Professor-Pip]

I'd be interested in knowing the OP's settings as well as gamestage and lootstage. I mean, on lower difficulties the zombies die much easier and you can use less ammo. with loot percentage above 100% you can easily get too many supplies. But one of the best things about 7DtD is that it's adjustable and moddable. You can easily play any way you want.

[Unamelable]

21 minutes ago, Riamus said:

The game can be whatever it wants to be.  It doesn't need to limit ammo.  If you want less ammo, you can use a mod for that. Few people will not want this to be one of those games where you can barely use a gun because ammo is so limited.  And most wouldn't want it removed from crafting.

 

From your baby parts about things you want changed, it is clear you want a have different from what the devs want for vanilla.  Vanilla is intended to appeal to the first audience.  Mods are intended to be used to customize it for each group of people for what they want it to be.  Most of what you have commented on are niche suggestions that may appeal to you and some people but most either won't care about our won't want.

 

There isn't anything wrong with suggestions or asking for new stuff but you want a lot of changes and they are going out of early access really soon, so it isn't likely to see many changes beyond what is on their list already 

Oh im totally sorry, that a man who make an vanila overhaul do better game mechanics than game developer itself. My bad that i making my feedback about busted balance that have 0 sense and probably a total time waste. Yea of course i can download 500 mods in my game and change configs as i wish. But im looking at the game from DEFAULT perspective. And if game acts like that at my first main save - its definitely goes wrong from this side.

 

For some reason, when I played Project Zomboid I didn't get that feeling! Even when this game is also considered an early access game it feels like sophisticated product, and there was a full-fledged steam workshop that could add a lot of QoL that the developers have not yet added. While 7DTD for some reason does not have that.

 

What's more the game is getting ready to go on release. And I wouldn't say that the game is ready for release, the game does have a lot of unfinished things that need attention. And I pay attention to the main part in the form of gameplay and balance. And I'm writing these threads because I'm noticing it and writing it out. If there will be no comparisons and criticism - nothing adequate in the end will not come out. If someone does not like my comments, let them find a middle ground where the mechanics can be left or softened so that it was not so absurd.

[zztong]

3 hours ago, Javabean867 said:

This is the second post you mentioned using chainsaws on zombies.  Why?  They are a resource gathering tool.

 

I see the same issue with the axe. Many players look at the axe as a viable weapon and in terms of reality, it would be effective. An Axe, a Pick, a Chainsaw would all be viable ways to fight a zombie. The game doesn't convey upon those items the same "extras" that the intended weapons do and that seems to be confusing.

 

I'm not suggesting Chainsaws, Axes, and Picks should be invested with special abilities. I don't mind that they're basically treated like improvised weapons. I do, however, see how it isn't obvious that Picks and Axes aren't full weapons to a new player. The Chainsaw comes about much later in the game so it is perhaps more reasonable to expect a player to not think of it as a weapon, but it's also really kind of a... is 'sexy' the right word ... sexy thought that dismembering a zombie with a chainsaw would be cooooooool and that maybe the game would support that.

[Unamelable]

3 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

I see the same issue with the axe. Many players look at the axe as a viable weapon and in terms of reality, it would be effective. An Axe, a Pick, a Chainsaw would all be viable ways to fight a zombie. The game doesn't convey upon those items the same "extras" that the intended weapons do and that seems to be confusing.

 

I'm not suggesting Chainsaws, Axes, and Picks should be invested with special abilities. I don't mind that they're basically treated like improvised weapons. I do, however, see how it isn't obvious that Picks and Axes aren't full weapons to a new player. The Chainsaw comes about much later in the game so it is perhaps more reasonable to expect a player to not think of it as a weapon, but it's also really kind of a... is 'sexy' the right word ... sexy thought that dismembering a zombie with a chainsaw would be cooooooool and that maybe the game would support that.

First what you expect from chainsaw in a zombie god damn game is to work like a cool ass weapon late-game. But in reality 7dtd seems like wanna be realistic or something so you can use it on trees only? This is weird.

Plus it's weird enough that tools like pickaxe and axe can't be used effectively like other types of melee even though they can actually do damage just as effectively as the intended killing weapons.

[Old Crow]

7 hours ago, Unamelable said:

First what you expect from chainsaw in a zombie god damn game is to work like a cool ass weapon late-game. But in reality 7dtd seems like wanna be realistic or something so you can use it on trees only? This is weird.

Plus it's weird enough that tools like pickaxe and axe can't be used effectively like other types of melee even though they can actually do damage just as effectively as the intended killing weapons.

 

The axe, pickaxe, and chainsaw are meant to be tools, in this game. Not weapons. Sorry, but as much as many of us would love them to be so, not everything in this game is going to be a viable weapon. It's called game balance.

 

Rather than throwing a tantrum like a small child, why not look into mods that would tailor the game more to your preferences? While yes, I believe a player shouldn't need to rely on mods to get the experience they want, the fact that it's even an option is something we're grateful for.

 

Or, just play something else.

[stallionsden]

Fairly sure you made/make the choice to collect the ammo from loot.  You can simply leave it in the containers. 

 

You can also mod the game to the way you feel is appropriate. 

[zztong]

13 hours ago, Unamelable said:

First what you expect from chainsaw in a zombie god damn game is to work like a cool ass weapon late-game. But in reality 7dtd seems like wanna be realistic or something so you can use it on trees only? This is weird.

Plus it's weird enough that tools like pickaxe and axe can't be used effectively like other types of melee even though they can actually do damage just as effectively as the intended killing weapons.

 

From a cinematic standpoint I can see your view. I'm not sure I'd say 7D2D is heavy on the realism.

 

I personally have not looked upon the chainsaw as a weapon. There are no perks for it. I don't even use it to cut down trees, which I suppose reinforces any point suggesting the chainsaw is relatively worthless. I so rarely have one.

 

To me, the axe and pick sending are confusing message because they can accept many of the normal weapon mods, but they too have no perks that assist the player is being better as using them as a weapon. The game is decently clear about that if folks take the time to dig in and think about the perks, but that's not really what a new player is going to do. Thus, when a new player is lucky enough to find an Iron Axe 1 on some very early day they assume it is better than the Wooden Club 3, and maybe in terms of just damage it is a slight improvement.

[Riamus]

Really the only thing that I always thought was wrong was the battle axe.  Chainsaw and other tools are clearly there as tools rather than weapons.  But a battle axe is so obviously not a tool.  Using one to chop down trees or doors just feels wrong.

 

I'm sure they wanted another tier for access and thought it looked cool but it just isn't a tool.  Better to have chosen some other kind of axe that would be used as a tool.

Edited May 11 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Javabean867]

20 hours ago, zztong said:

 

I see the same issue with the axe. Many players look at the axe as a viable weapon and in terms of reality, it would be effective. An Axe, a Pick, a Chainsaw would all be viable ways to fight a zombie. The game doesn't convey upon those items the same "extras" that the intended weapons do and that seems to be confusing.

 

I'm not suggesting Chainsaws, Axes, and Picks should be invested with special abilities. I don't mind that they're basically treated like improvised weapons. I do, however, see how it isn't obvious that Picks and Axes aren't full weapons to a new player. The Chainsaw comes about much later in the game so it is perhaps more reasonable to expect a player to not think of it as a weapon, but it's also really kind of a... is 'sexy' the right word ... sexy thought that dismembering a zombie with a chainsaw would be cooooooool and that maybe the game would support that.

I'd say the stats tell a pretty good story on if a tool would make a good weapon or not.  Against regular Zambees, sure it'll do the job, but feral and radiated Zambs, not likely 

 

Also the chainsaw would make a terrible weapon against them.  Clothing would jam up the chainsaw so fast.