Congratulations and Suggestions

[Marcus Siqueira]

Hello and greetings from a new member, and hopefully a collaborator.

 

I recently bought the game on steam, maybe a couple of weeks ago and made some friends get it too because i saw the amazing experience of playing together. 
I played until day 100 and watched some videos.
Very deep mechanics I would say and many great stuff.

I experienced a very few bugs in what you people call POI's, where some zombies would not spawn at all, but that kind of event happened very little, so i didnt bother, yet i noticed it might had happened because i took a wrong path, that was not expected and by not reaching some certain area the trigger event that would spawn zombies would bug, but that is only a guess, i have no data of it.

I know A22 is under construction and as a developer myself i know you would not change the roadmap because of some random guy, but i felt like i could write down here some suggestion and see what people think about them.

• When picking up a POI, isnt it possible to just load all zombies at once so there is no problem of bugging out and not loading them in the right spot? It would also make more realistic in cases where they are on top of something, you could come by down, and shoot them before they can surprise you, but can also make you feel surprised if they move around, because they are spawned and sensed you before.
• I saw a lot of youtubers using a mechanic that i think takes the fun away and i feel like an exploit. The jumping and building block above you, they do that and get instantly access to areas where they were suposed to get by another path, and also, by doing that they instantly build 2 block construction of wood and get protected from zombies and uses it always as a cover. I feel like, in battle in at least you should not be suposed to build blocks or ir would have to have a bar with a time to build, that would make it more realistic where in reality, you would not be spawnin blocks out of nowhere while being chased by zombies. I feel like the Devs wanted us to fight them, run, hide, real tatics and not that lame used one.
• New zombies to increase the dificulty, maybe?
• Some zombies should be able to jump or climb stuff to get to you, because in all cases, if there is 3 blocks they always start hitting blocks, witch creates a protection field when you are always above them. I know there is one specif zombie the can make the jump, but normal zombies, some of them should be able to climb like a human would, that would always be the best tatic to just get higher, it makes things ALWAYS a lot easy.

Edited March 6 by Marcus Siqueira
English mistakes and better writting. (see edit history)

[Rotor]

Bienvenido!

 

With regards to item one, the reasoning given is system load for current mechanics.  There is MOD working on different  load parameters, but I havent tried it.

 

With regards to item 2, it is called "nerd polling", for reaching content, etc.  For reference , you dont have to nerd pole, you can just start stacking ladders.  Nerd polling saves you a few milliseconds.

 

2 blocks of wood for protection will work for a couple of days.

 

From a personal point of view, I subscribe to the "original" Zombie genre.  Now, while the resident evil franchise is pretty cool and has some entertaining movies, the current state of 7D2D Zs are good enough for me, I even remove puking cops via MOD.

 

Some Zombies do "climb" :), from a certain point of view, beware of spider Z and dogs...and snakes /yikes.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Marcus Siqueira said:

• When picking up a POI, isnt it possible to just load all zombies at once so there is no problem of bugging out and not loading them in the right spot? It would also make more realistic in cases where they are on top of something, you could come by down, and shoot them before they can surprise you, but can also make you feel surprised if they move around, because they are spawned and sensed you before.
• I saw a lot of youtubers using a mechanic that i think takes the fun away and i feel like an exploit. The jumping and building block above you, they do that and get instantly access to areas where they were suposed to get by another path, and also, by doing that they instantly build 2 block construction of wood and get protected from zombies and uses it always as a cover. I feel like, in battle in at least you should not be suposed to build blocks or ir would have to have a bar with a time to build, that would make it more realistic where in reality, you would not be spawnin blocks out of nowhere while being chased by zombies. I feel like the Devs wanted us to fight them, run, hide, real tatics and not that lame used one.
• New zombies to increase the dificulty, maybe?
• Some zombies should be able to jump or climb stuff to get to you, because in all cases, if there is 3 blocks they always start hitting blocks, witch creates a protection field when you are always above them. I know there is one specif zombie the can make the jump, but normal zombies, some of them should be able to climb like a human would, that would always be the best tatic to just get higher, it makes things ALWAYS a lot easy.

 

1) It's to keep system resources lower so isn't going to change in vanilla.  And with all the many hours I've played, it has been extremely rare for zombies not to spawn properly.  With A21, the main issue is that they are now using trigger points to spawn certain zombies in some POI and this can cause issues if you aren't following the intended path.  The most common issue is a bug where the button to open doors isn't working in some places and that is often a trigger to spawn the zombies.  If you break the door or wall open to bypass it, you won't trigger the zombies.  Instead, break the button and the door will open and zombies will spawn if they are tied to the button as a trigger.  Note that there has been talk of wandering zombie volumes where zombies will be wandering around their spawn location but this will not replace the trigger mechanics that were added in A21.  It'll just be another option for spawn volumes for POI designers to use.

 

2) People complain about this often.  As mentioned by Rotor, this is referred to as nerd poling.  It is entirely optional and you do not need to do it.  My feeling is to let people play how they want to play.  Just because they choose to use a cheesy way to avoid zombies doesn't mean you have to.  Personally, I only use it if I am building a large base and need to quickly get up high to upgrade blocks or do some painting rather than spend time building a more realistic structure, or occasionally if I fall off the side of a building and know that getting back to where I was would take too long then I'll either do that or build a ladder.  That's just a time saver so I don't consider that cheesing the game.

 

3) They have talked about maybe adding a couple more zombies before gold but nothing is confirmed.

 

4) If there is a ladder, they can climb it if it is low enough.  Otherwise, only spider zombies can jump besides a single block jump.  This isn't likely to change and is just part of base design.  Keep in mind also that you also can't climb without a ladder.  You can jump where they can't but you can't climb without a ladder.

[zombiehunter]

Greetings, and welcome.

 

I'd like to reiterate what Riamus said.  Nerd polling is a choice.  You aren't required to do it so if you think it is cheesing, simply don't do it.  Other people may like to use it in a zombie-fighting scenario and if so, what harm does it cause you?  Let people play how they want to play.  Personally, I like having the mechanic in the game specifically for the purpose Riamus stated: building tall structures.  I don't typically use it for fighting or getting to the loot on a rooftop for example.

 

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying the game!

[Scyris]

On 3/6/2024 at 5:43 PM, zombiehunter said:

Greetings, and welcome.

 

I'd like to reiterate what Riamus said.  Nerd polling is a choice.  You aren't required to do it so if you think it is cheesing, simply don't do it.  Other people may like to use it in a zombie-fighting scenario and if so, what harm does it cause you?  Let people play how they want to play.  Personally, I like having the mechanic in the game specifically for the purpose Riamus stated: building tall structures.  I don't typically use it for fighting or getting to the loot on a rooftop for example.

 

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying the game!

 

Problem here is people lack self control and because they cannot control themselves they want it to be removed, nerd polling is a prime example of one of these sorts of issues, just don't use it to cheese poi's, only use it when building, the devs have taken enough sandbox elements of the game away from players since alpha 17 for no real valid reason lets not let them take another one just because people can't control themselves.

[Marcus Siqueira]

I agree with you all at some point, but as a developer myself, when you include a feature or something of that sort, you expect people to use it, since it's available. At first i didn't saw it as a choice, but as a bug. For example, if i make the game hard enought (thinking as a developer), and leave the feature/mechanic enabled, people will use it even if its a last resort. But, if i trully wish to make the gamer hard (have in mind that this is just an example), i would not have this feature at all, and would have a mechanic against it, forcing players to actually try something else.
I did some developement for an open source game, in that topic is the way i see it. Either the feature is available and anyone can use use it, or its not for a determinated porpuse. In my case, it would even be making the game harder, but a more realistic play. 
Yet, as i said, i didn't come here to make a change request, i know how developer works, they have sprints and features already planned and they should not pick a random post from a random guy and invest time out of nowhere in a new feature/change.
 

Thank you,

[meganoth]

16 hours ago, Marcus Siqueira said:

I agree with you all at some point, but as a developer myself, when you include a feature or something of that sort, you expect people to use it, since it's available. At first i didn't saw it as a choice, but as a bug. For example, if i make the game hard enought (thinking as a developer), and leave the feature/mechanic enabled, people will use it even if its a last resort. But, if i trully wish to make the gamer hard (have in mind that this is just an example), i would not have this feature at all, and would have a mechanic against it, forcing players to actually try something else.
I did some developement for an open source game, in that topic is the way i see it. Either the feature is available and anyone can use use it, or its not for a determinated porpuse. In my case, it would even be making the game harder, but a more realistic play. 
Yet, as i said, i didn't come here to make a change request, i know how developer works, they have sprints and features already planned and they should not pick a random post from a random guy and invest time out of nowhere in a new feature/change.
 

Thank you,

 

The reason nerdpoling is in the game and was never removed is because of its usefulness in building. Another option the developers were actually contemplating was disabling nerdpoling outside of building stuff, but they seemed not to happy about their options how to do that. You as developer would know that especially in a sandboxy multiplayer game you always get corner cases where such implementations horribly fail to work. 

 

About zombies being able to climb, if they could use ladders like players that would probably be too hard on beginners, and even veterans would need to jump through hoops to secure their crafting base and have easy access to it.

 

When you continue to play you will discover quite a few more exploity or cheesy ways that diminish the danger but are in the game because it is a mixed bag of genres and sandbox being one of that bag. Did you know you can simply run or drive away from all zombies at default settings? Outside POIs the danger is an illusion, but players do enough mistakes that that illusion kills them 😄

 

 

[Whorhay]

Zombies in POI's being all triggered spawns was/is a solution to resource problems, but also the Devs didn't like that people would walk down a street making noise to lure all the zombies out. We'd just pick a street and make a bunch of racket. This would aggro all the zombies who would then bash their way out of the POI's and line up in the street to have their heads bashed in. Then we could proceed to loot all the POI's on the street and only keep an ear out for dog hordes. So now the zombies aren't spawned in at all until the player enters the spawn volume in which they belong.

[Rotor]

11 minutes ago, Whorhay said:

Zombies in POI's being all triggered spawns was/is a solution to resource problems, but also the Devs didn't like that people would walk down a street making noise to lure all the zombies out. We'd just pick a street and make a bunch of racket. This would aggro all the zombies who would then bash their way out of the POI's and line up in the street to have their heads bashed in. Then we could proceed to loot all the POI's on the street and only keep an ear out for dog hordes. So now the zombies aren't spawned in at all until the player enters the spawn volume in which they belong.

 

Most unfortunate, as what you describe is very Zombie like behaviour.

 

However, I do understand the resource issues, as one who plays on a borderline processor.

[Marcus Siqueira]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

The reason nerdpoling is in the game and was never removed is because of its usefulness in building. Another option the developers were actually contemplating was disabling nerdpoling outside of building stuff, but they seemed not to happy about their options how to do that. You as developer would know that especially in a sandboxy multiplayer game you always get corner cases where such implementations horribly fail to work. 

 

About zombies being able to climb, if they could use ladders like players that would probably be too hard on beginners, and even veterans would need to jump through hoops to secure their crafting base and have easy access to it.

 

When you continue to play you will discover quite a few more exploity or cheesy ways that diminish the danger but are in the game because it is a mixed bag of genres and sandbox being one of that bag. Did you know you can simply run or drive away from all zombies at default settings? Outside POIs the danger is an illusion, but players do enough mistakes that that illusion kills them 😄

 

 

You're right, to disable such mechanic would need a hard work and might break a thing or two. I agree with that, and as I meantioned i have no intention of putting any suggestion into development right now but rather open a debate for the future.

 

1 hour ago, Rotor said:

 

Most unfortunate, as what you describe is very Zombie like behaviour.

 

However, I do understand the resource issues, as one who plays on a borderline processor.

I understand that the problem would be the same as the polling, people will always exploit stuff if available, and that will make multiplayer somewhat boring and game unrealistic. Players would rush the streets for POIs and agroo all. If you think about some realistic stuff, you would be the super hero down the street fighting a hord alone. Also by doing that, it takes the explortaion and the scary moments new players would have to face inside. 
Maybe for that problem to not occour, there needs to be some variable that are enabled while the player are inside the POI, and from time to time check if zombies are spawned, but that might not be optimized. Still from all i said, bug fixes are indeed a thing, rather than new features.

[Whorhay]

The other big advantage of the zombie spawns being triggered by entering a volumetric space is that you can work your way through a poi and not be waking up zombies that are 3 floors above you when you fight the zombies in the first room.

[pApA^LeGBa]

On 3/15/2024 at 2:50 AM, Whorhay said:

The other big advantage of the zombie spawns being triggered by entering a volumetric space is that you can work your way through a poi and not be waking up zombies that are 3 floors above you when you fight the zombies in the first room.

 

Wich would be way more immersive. It´s so riddiculous that i can throw around grenades in one room and the Z´s in the next room keep sleeping. But it seems we will get wandering "sleepers".

Edited March 16 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

On 3/12/2024 at 12:22 PM, Scyris said:

 

Problem here is people lack self control and because they cannot control themselves they want it to be removed, nerd polling is a prime example of one of these sorts of issues, just don't use it to cheese poi's, only use it when building, the devs have taken enough sandbox elements of the game away from players since alpha 17 for no real valid reason lets not let them take another one just because people can't control themselves.

 

Can confirm. I saw a post some months ago where someone asked for CM/DM modes to be removed from the game because they can't help themselves and spawn items in from the get-go and, in their own words, "ruin [their] experience". When suggested by others NOT to do that, it was like speaking a foreign language to the OP, and they were genuinely baffled how others don't suffer from the same problem.

 

So yes, as I've encountered many times over the years, many people, likely due to how their brains are wired, entirely lack any semblance of self-discipline and restraint, to the point out of concern I'd genuinely advise them not to go to a casino, otherwise they'd likely spend their retirement pension in a week.