Observations: First 4 points / 2 perception & 2 lucky looter

[warmer]

I was curious how much of an effect it would have at the lowest loot stage, and it was on the verge of feeling over powered.

 

Some of the notable loot by the end of day 1

11 dirty water

2 honey

3 painkillers

Cooking pot/grill

27 7.62

18 9mm

2x lvl 2 pipe rifles

2x lvl 2 machine guns

Lvl 2 scrap leg armor

 

I also found loads of books and magazines.

 

All that by 22:00 day 1 @(1 day = 60 min real time/18hrs of daylight)

 

I did 1 clear quest in a 2 tier POI, in the Forest biome that I double dipped on at a auto shop.

 

What this tells me is, spending those 4 points right away is the best possible start you can have. I was able to craft level 2 spears/primitive bows/wooden clubs/pipe rifles from the mags I found.

 

This makes me want to do a run where you max out lucky looter before specializing in anything else.

 

Has anyone done that yet in A21, and if so what was your experience?

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by warmer (see edit history)

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, warmer said:

I was curious how much of an effect it would have at the lowest loot stage, and it was on the verge of feeling over powered.

 

Some of the notable loot by the end of day 1

11 dirty water

2 honey

3 painkillers

Cooking pot/grill

27 7.62

18 9mm

2x lvl 2 pipe rifles

2x lvl 2 machine guns

Lvl 2 scrap leg armor

 

I also found loads of books and magazines.

 

All that by 22:00 day 1 @(1 day = 60 min real time/18hrs of daylight)

 

I did 1 clear quest that I double dipped on at a auto shop.

 

What this tells me is, spending those 4 points right away is the best possible start you can have. I was able to craft level 2 spears/primitive bows/wooden clubs/pipe rifles from the mags I found.

 

This makes me want to do a run where you max out lucky looter before specializing in anything else.

 

Has anyone done that yet in A21, and if so what was your experience?

 

 

This doesn't really tell me anything without at least another comparable run where you do the same without LuckyLooter. (Actually to really make a substantiated claim you would need multiple runs as well)

 

[Gr.o.m.]

Also recomendet information did you run only tier 1 or higher pois.

Woodland or a biome with a bonus to gamestage?

[pApA^LeGBa]

I did a day one, also 60 mins and 18 hours of daylight, pine forest biome, doing a gas station T1 quest (double dip), boe´s market T1 quest (no double dip) and a T2 house (kitchen and end loot only), a bunch of cars ond ofc the trader compound. Points went to Salvage Operations, Master Chef, Pummel Pete and Advanced Engineering.

 

Got 17 murky water, 1 honey, 1 painkiller, 1 vitamin, 4 first aid bandages, 1 cooking pot, 31 7.62mm, 17 9mm, 10 shotgun shells, a T1 wrench, Bunkerbuster, ergonomic grip x1, serrated blade x2, T2 Pipe Shotgun, T2 Pipe RIfle, T3 padded leg, T2 padded chest, 7 cooking magazines and 5 forge ahead (plus a lot of other books and magazines). Wich granted me a forge in night 1 wich means iron arrows on day 2 only because i put one point in advanced engineering. (no quest rewards included here)

 

I rather do heavy looting on day one that putting points in lucky looter that early wich only increases my lootstage very minimal. In a T1 POI i have a lootstage of 6 at the end of day one. Wich means 2 points of lucky looter would make this 6.6 so propably 7. Not worth anything. Lucky looter is a mid game perk.

 

Trader distance from spawn point was 1km btw

Edited July 8, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Scyris]

4 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I did a day one, also 60 mins and 18 hours of daylight, pine forest biome, doing a gas station T1 quest (double dip), boe´s market T1 quest (no double dip) and a T2 house (kitchen and end loot only), a bunch of cars ond ofc the trader compound. Points went to Salvage Operations, Master Chef, Pummel Pete and Advanced Engineering.

 

Got 17 murky water, 1 honey, 1 painkiller, 1 vitamin, 4 first aid bandages, 1 cooking pot, 31 7.62mm, 17 9mm, 10 shotgun shells, a T1 wrench, Bunkerbuster, ergonomic grip x1, serrated blade x2, T2 Pipe Shotgun, T2 Pipe RIfle, T3 padded leg, T2 padded chest, 7 cooking magazines and 5 forge ahead (plus a lot of other books and magazines). Wich granted me a forge in night 1 wich means iron arrows on day 2 only because i put one point in advanced engineering. (no quest rewards included here)

 

I rather do heavy looting on day one that putting points in lucky looter that early wich only increases my lootstage very minimal. In a T1 POI i have a lootstage of 6 at the end of day one. Wich means 2 points of lucky looter would make this 6.6 so propably 7. Not worth anything. Lucky looter is a mid game perk.

 

Trader distance from spawn point was 1km btw

 

yeah I think lucky looter needs to add maybe +3 to base gamestage per perk level just so its at least mildly useful at early game. I mean not that I can talk I never get the perk period, as I have no interest in really anything in perception. The 20% faster looting speed for level 1 thou does sound like it'd save me a bit of time, but unsure if its worth grabbing it early just for that. Other than cars most things are looted in about a second.

[Riamus]

I've always out a point into lucky looter right away as well as one in parkour (I hate fall damage).  In A21, I tend to put one in a weapon (I am usually using spears) and I'll put a point into daring adventure.  Not because of the money but because I like having two rewards from the quests once I max it out.  Sure, it may be a fast progression that way but I'm fine with that.  I'm not really a fan of early game.  I like it more when I have the resources to start really building stuff.  Plus, I like doing the high tier POI more than the low tier ones.

[warmer]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

This doesn't really tell me anything without at least another comparable run where you do the same without LuckyLooter. (Actually to really make a substantiated claim you would need multiple runs as well)

 

That's why I asked for feedback from others at the end. Continuing the run today.

4 hours ago, Gr.o.m. said:

Also recomendet information did you run only tier 1 or higher pois.

Woodland or a biome with a bonus to gamestage?

Tier 2 Poi on the Trader quest. I did clear another small office poi that had a few magazines, and gabbed probably 6 mailboxes and a couple newspapers dispensers while I was going back and forth from the mission.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I mean the numbers speak for itself. An increase of 0.6 isn´t worth it. Not even an increase of 5 would be worth it on day one tbh. That changes literally nothing in the loot pool.

 

As long as your lootstage is too low, it´s points that could be more usefull elsewhere.

 

Was already like that before A21 and is even more true for A21 as you can get more magazines for the skills you put points in. This isn´t new, well known for quite a while now. Unless you instantly go T3 or higher POI´s and/or other biomes, it´s basically useless early game.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[warmer]

Small bonuses over a lot of loot searches adds up to an increase. Even being weighted slightly in one direction is noticeable over a large enough sample size. I loot EVERYTHING I see. Day one I probably searched 100 objects easy. This was my 5th start on A21 and it felt significantly easier in terms of water/cooking pot/guns/ammo/magazines. There definitely was more than I had experienced in previous starts. I am lucky to get a single pipe weapon, let alone 4 lvl 2 pipe weapons. Also I was lvl 3 by the end of my first POI mission.

I am now lvl 6, day 3, and level 3 in lucky looter. My game stage is 9 and my loot stage is 18 currently with no biome/POI bonus. I feel investing early is the only way to go once you are high level, spending those far between points on it seems like a waste.

Edited July 8, 2023 by warmer (see edit history)

[Riamus]

14 minutes ago, warmer said:

Small bonuses over a lot of loot searches adds up to an increase. 

Yeah, that's a main reason why such bonuses are a problem.  There are too many things to loot for such a bonus to work well.  It is fine in a game where you have a much smaller number of lootable objects but for a game like this, it is not a good idea.

[Khissi]

You also have to consider the nasty RNG that sometimes rears its ugly head.  You never know...  Some people would rather put the points into actual fighting skills or into skills that will net them particular crafting magazines.  I think they've done a good job anticipating possibilities and what will work best for the majority of players.  Using a single experience to try to justify a need for loot adjustment is not practical.  I'm sure they are carefully watching Sparks to learn this information.

[warmer]

5 hours ago, Khissi said:

You also have to consider the nasty RNG that sometimes rears its ugly head.  You never know...  Some people would rather put the points into actual fighting skills or into skills that will net them particular crafting magazines.  I think they've done a good job anticipating possibilities and what will work best for the majority of players.  Using a single experience to try to justify a need for loot adjustment is not practical.  I'm sure they are carefully watching Sparks to learn this information.

Who said I was asking for loot adjustment? I was making an observation and asking what others experiences where. The idea was to test the viability of the build, not suggest a change in coding.

[Khissi]

You're right and I misread.  As for viability, is it fun?  Do YOU like it?  That's the only opinion that's worth its weight.  Everyone plays differently.  I tend to change how I do things with every new play through, so, would I play that way?  Maybe, but to totally rely on my nasty, naughty, awful RNG sprites would be just insane, so, I probably would not try that until I'm pretty certain of the way they have weighted things.

[warmer]

31 minutes ago, Khissi said:

 I tend to change how I do things with every new play through,

I hear you there. This is the first time I have ever use this initial point spread. I just thought of the fact that my map is super custom. Granted I am playing on vanilla/default settings, but this is the city I am in. I am sure that influences things like the number of cars/mailbox/newpaper/stands compared to a vanilla map

[Khissi]

Yep... that's em... that's pretty much all city.  heh...

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s literally impossible that you get anything better on day one due to lucky looter. There is no difference in loot between having lootstage 6 and lootstage 7.  Take a look at the loot tables and you will see why lucky looter is a mid game perk.

 

At lootstage 50 is where it start´s to matter a bit, that´s when you can get a T3 AK47 with a lootstage of 55. Sure there is really small benefits below that, but do you really care about the tier on your padded cloth and stone tools instead of getting more magazines for your other skills? You would get that better quality stone axe a few ingame hours later anyways.

 

Like said, if you start in the wasteland with T3 POI´s it´s a different story. But doing that you need your points elsewhere to not die all the time.

 

And it doesn´t affect how many pipe guns or armor pieces your find. It only effects the lootstage and time you need to loot. Finding 4 pipe weapons on day one is purely RNG. I had that already aswell with no lucky looter. Pipe weapons do not spawn in T1 quality btw. T2 is the lowest quality that you can loot.

 

Nice map. Did you make that?

Edited July 9, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[theFlu]

5 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

It´s literally impossible that you get anything better on day one due to lucky looter.

Weeell, it _might_ be bugged.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@theFlu Yes, but i doubt that. I did three day one runs without lucky looter meanwhile and all were similar in loot as what was posted in his first post. One run had even significantly more ammo.

[theFlu]

3 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Yes, but i doubt that.

Ye ye, me too Just not "literally impossible"...  I might've not argued against "impossible" and I wouldn't have argued against "virtually impossible"

 

The intended effect size IS so small that I'm not pretending that any day-one run will show any meaningful difference. Even if not completely killed by rounding issues already, the RNG will completely overwhelm it.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@theFlu I have yet to get a day one where i end up on more than lootstage 6 on day one 22:00pm. And 2 points of lucky looter give me 10% lootstage. So rounded up it´s lootstage 7 then. The first better loot starts at lootstage 8. Wich would be T3 of the primitive stuff. Only a chance for it, not guaranteed, you could still get T2 stuff instead. If you go into a T2 building there is a small chance for better loot with LL at 2 ofc. But it´s still not worth the 2 points that early.

Edited July 9, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[theFlu]

4 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

But it´s still not worth the 2 points that early.

Yeh.. it takes knowing the mechanics and the loot tables to be able to see that <that one lucky item: a better tier of a pipe weapon> would've actually been impossible to get without the points. I'll take my 10% damage, thanks

[pApA^LeGBa]

I would even say that investing in EyeCandy is the better deal for early game than wasting points if someone is really eager for more lootstage. They do give you +5 lootstage  and a 10% increase of your lootstage.

Edited July 9, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Rotor]

What are the frame rates on that map?  Yikes!

[Riamus]

Regarding Lucky Looter, I personally like it more for the loot speed than anything else.  Even for things that are quick to loot, it adds up.  I don't spend time looking through loot except from certain places like the loot rooms, so the faster I can press E and R and move on, the better.  But others don't care about that and that's fine too.